Beginner - How to improve underexposed photos?

DB3

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I have a particular problem that I would like advice on. In an effort to avoid blown highlights, I often end up with areas that are too dark. (Mainly landscapes.)

Any suggestions on how best to improve this, probably by local editing, would be appreciated.

I currently only use Apple Photos for modest editing of my photos, so probably need additional software.
 
... Another attempt, this time trying to reduce the blue overspill on to the window frames manually using a mask:

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

I still haven't worked out why the sky blue spills over on the the frames. I assume it must be a consequence of the extreme contrast in the original raw.
You could look up image sensor bloom. One example in this Wikipedia article is similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_(shader_effect)

24f4d386003f4bc590d3973620b4e2c3.jpg


I'm thinking it's some combination of that and CA. I've seen similar effects in many photos over the years ... some right here in the Retouching forum.
Thanks, that looks like the right answer.
 
Another attempt, this time trying to reduce the blue overspill on to the window frames manually using a mask:

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.
There is room for more improvements :

ca5f306bccd140498bc804d423d38cb3.jpg.png






a540506ce0364355b09ddd7ccc2b18eb.jpg.png


Did not use any local adjustment.
 
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Another attempt, this time trying to reduce the blue overspill on to the window frames manually using a mask:

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

I still haven't worked out why the sky blue spills over on the the frames. I assume it must be a consequence of the extreme contrast in the original raw. Could this be one of the rare instances where Sony’s lossy compression rears its ugly head?
It's color cast, nothing more. Why wouldn't it spill over on the frames?



f4c7f7368c134944b68812d8be09b788.jpg
 
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Here is his RAW file, opened in PhotoLab with the No corrections preset applied.

PhotoLab, no corrections

PhotoLab, no corrections

And here's a 400% enlargement of the area under discussion.

Crop enlarged by 400%

Crop enlarged by 400%

What is it that you'd like to point out about that image? Perhaps you call it sharpening, but I call it aliasing. It's normal. But if it's not handled well, it gets to be abnormal.
It's haloing still, why you can't see it I have no idea as anyone else can.

Here is your image blown up:

707c9d109e294f1899c0ed025ae2e851.jpg






Further edited to show the haloing ...

af2c7d1e01e84372948e7ba21eb38bb6.jpg






Haloing
Is a bright band of pixels outlining a high contrast edge. They are most exaggerated at high contrast edges, where there is an abrupt change from dark to light or vice versa.
 
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Another attempt, this time trying to reduce the blue overspill on to the window frames manually using a mask:

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

Auto masks used to accentuate saturation in the windows, and reduce it in the frames.

I still haven't worked out why the sky blue spills over on the the frames. I assume it must be a consequence of the extreme contrast in the original raw. Could this be one of the rare instances where Sony’s lossy compression rears its ugly head?
It's color cast, nothing more. Why wouldn't it spill over on the frames?
No, I think it’s image sensor bloom. Normally, the faint blue rays from the bright sky spilling over the frame would be lost, but when you boost the shadows enough, the bloom becomes visible. It’s very rare to lift shadows quite so much, so the normally imperceptible blue glow becomes very noticeable. So, it’s not CA, or a sharpening halo or a colour cast.



 
Here is his RAW file, opened in PhotoLab with the No corrections preset applied.

PhotoLab, no corrections

PhotoLab, no corrections

And here's a 400% enlargement of the area under discussion.

Crop enlarged by 400%

Crop enlarged by 400%

What is it that you'd like to point out about that image? Perhaps you call it sharpening, but I call it aliasing. It's normal. But if it's not handled well, it gets to be abnormal.
It's haloing still, why you can't see it I have no idea as anyone else can.

[snip]

Further edited to show the haloing even more for the laymen ...
You're also not seeing the spill that Nigel is referring to, so I don't know who's calling whom what here with what justification.

--
39 raw converters tested:
 
No, I think it’s image sensor bloom. Normally, the faint blue rays from the bright sky spilling over the frame would be lost, but when you boost the shadows enough, the bloom becomes visible. It’s very rare to lift shadows quite so much, so the normally imperceptible blue glow becomes very noticeable. So, it’s not CA, or a sharpening halo or a colour cast.
Of course you do...

Here is some more "sensor bloom", dang stuff got all over the window sills, the walls and even got onto the floor. Clean up on aisle 5.

dec938e469ab44238d97b815107a17d5.jpg
 
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Here is his RAW file, opened in PhotoLab with the No corrections preset applied.

PhotoLab, no corrections

PhotoLab, no corrections

And here's a 400% enlargement of the area under discussion.

Crop enlarged by 400%

Crop enlarged by 400%

What is it that you'd like to point out about that image? Perhaps you call it sharpening, but I call it aliasing. It's normal. But if it's not handled well, it gets to be abnormal.
It's haloing still, why you can't see it I have no idea as anyone else can.

Here is your image blown up:

707c9d109e294f1899c0ed025ae2e851.jpg
I don't know what that is. What did you blow it up with? Dynamite?

My images are right there in your quote, and this is that same part of my image, magnified:

My image, magnified

My image, magnified

If what you posted began as my image, what you apparently did is desaturate it and grossly reduce the resolution, forcing extreme degradation of all pixel values, generating a complete misrepresentation.

Somehow, your arguments just get worse instead of better, though I wouldn't have thought that possible.
 
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No, I think it’s image sensor bloom. Normally, the faint blue rays from the bright sky spilling over the frame would be lost, but when you boost the shadows enough, the bloom becomes visible. It’s very rare to lift shadows quite so much, so the normally imperceptible blue glow becomes very noticeable. So, it’s not CA, or a sharpening halo or a colour cast.
Of course you do...

Here is some more "sensor bloom", dang stuff got all over the window sills, the walls and even got onto the floor. Clean up on aisle 5.

dec938e469ab44238d97b815107a17d5.jpg
You're again posting manipulated so called 'examples' of things. Totally useless.
 
Here is his RAW file, opened in PhotoLab with the No corrections preset applied.

PhotoLab, no corrections

PhotoLab, no corrections

And here's a 400% enlargement of the area under discussion.

Crop enlarged by 400%

Crop enlarged by 400%

What is it that you'd like to point out about that image? Perhaps you call it sharpening, but I call it aliasing. It's normal. But if it's not handled well, it gets to be abnormal.
It's haloing still, why you can't see it I have no idea as anyone else can.

Here is your image blown up:

707c9d109e294f1899c0ed025ae2e851.jpg
I don't know what that is. What did you blow it up with? Dynamite?
I think it’s the very small embedded JPEG from the raw file. I included it to show how dark the original was, not for people to study the details and then enlarge it. That’s utterly pointless, given that I provided the raw file.



My images are right there in your quote, and this is that same part of my image, magnified:
My image, magnified

My image, magnified

If what you posted began as my image, what you apparently did is desaturate it and grossly reduce the resolution, forcing extreme degradation of all pixel values, generating a complete misrepresentation.

Somehow, your arguments just get worse instead of better, though I wouldn't have thought that possible.
 
If what you posted began as my image, what you apparently did is desaturate it and grossly reduce the resolution, forcing extreme degradation of all pixel values, generating a complete misrepresentation.
Nope. It's just imported into lightroom and nothing more. The 2nd image is edited which I said.

I see the exact same thing on my BenQ monitors when looking at the images here on this thread or when I look at them on a Macbook so whatever snow blindness you have going on is on your end and why you have no comprehension of this simple issue and are chasing your tail going down the rabbit hole with all of these other peripheral hypothesis like chromatic aberration, aliasing, lossy compression, lens corrections, luminosity masks, and now sensor bloom... when haloing is clearly the problem. Maybe updgrade your gear?


This is really boring at this point, going back and forth proves nothing, as really there is nothing to prove here, nothing great or important will be solved or change the world over any of this.
 
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No, I think it’s image sensor bloom. Normally, the faint blue rays from the bright sky spilling over the frame would be lost, but when you boost the shadows enough, the bloom becomes visible. It’s very rare to lift shadows quite so much, so the normally imperceptible blue glow becomes very noticeable. So, it’s not CA, or a sharpening halo or a colour cast.
Of course you do...

Here is some more "sensor bloom", dang stuff got all over the window sills, the walls and even got onto the floor. Clean up on aisle 5.

dec938e469ab44238d97b815107a17d5.jpg
You're again posting manipulated so called 'examples' of things. Totally useless.
LOL. Of course it's "manipulated" it's called editing, that's what we do with images when you remove the color cast of mixed light sources.

Poe-tay-toe, Poe-taw-toe, Some of us understand mixed light sources and color casts others call it sensor bloom. Whatever works I guess.
 
If what you posted began as my image, what you apparently did is desaturate it and grossly reduce the resolution, forcing extreme degradation of all pixel values, generating a complete misrepresentation.
Nope. It's just imported into lightroom and nothing more.
Jeez, just look at the images in that post to which you replied.

What madness does Lightroom do that would cause my image crop, which is this ...

My image, magnified

My image, magnified

... to become this image that you said was my image blown up?

707c9d109e294f1899c0ed025ae2e851.jpg


Okay, it's not desaturated - but it's not my image. Whatever it is, it's meaningless because the true resolution has been massively nuked, causing complete misrepresentation of the actual pixel values.
 
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Okay, it's not desaturated - but it's not my image. Whatever it is, it's meaningless because the true image resolution has been massively nuked, resulting in complete misrepresentation of the actual pixel values.
I guess you just want to forget about the fact that you can see the haloing in the original image posted?

Okay, we can skip that again and just address your latest rationalization about how Lightroom exposes the underlying defects in the image that caused the issues you complained about.

Since you don't have access to LR to see the problem, you keep trying to blame it on something else, when one of the phantom causes doesn't remove it, you come up with another one. If I'm correct you're up to 6 at last count: chromatic aberration, aliasing, lossy compression, lens corrections, luminosity masks, and the latest one - sensor bloom...

Let us know how it turns out after you correct for all of those. If you need any help let me know.
 
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Okay, it's not desaturated - but it's not my image. Whatever it is, it's meaningless because the true image resolution has been massively nuked, resulting in complete misrepresentation of the actual pixel values.
I guess you just want to forget about the fact that you can see the haloing in the original image posted?
Yes, because that's from Nigel's embedded JPEG that only has a resolution of 1660 by 1080 pixels. We also don't know how that was generated. Only Nigel knows. Was it sharpened or otherwise manipulated? Regardless of the answers, the resolution shrinkage has invalidated the pixel data.
mfinley, post: 68229047, member: 1727339"]
.... It's just imported into lightroom and nothing more.
Jeez, just look at the images in that post to which you replied.

What madness does Lightroom do that would cause my image crop, which is this ...
I asked you how LIghtroom could turn my image into that unrelated thing you posted.
Since you don't have access to LR to see the problem, you keep trying to blame it on something else,
Right. I blame it on your mistake by calling it my image. I also blame the original mistake you made by trying to use a crop from a 1660 x 1080 image to analyze something that you need to crop from a 24MP image to actually analyze.
when one of the phantom causes doesn't remove it, you come up with another one. If I'm correct you're up to 6 at last count: chromatic aberration, aliasing, lossy compression, lens corrections, luminosity masks, and the latest one - sensor bloom...
You have corrected nothing whatsoever. You have utter failed to disprove my contention that CA, aliasing, and luminosity masking should be considered as factors, as I first said.

I, on the other hand, have been pointing out your repeated mistakes.
Let us know how it turns out after you correct for all of those. If you need any help let me know.
Everything you've posted is mired in misinformation, so your conclusions are misinformation.

[/QUOTE]
 
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Everything you've posted is mired in misinformation, so your conclusions are misinformation.
Again, no idea why you're so triggered by this, and I'm sorry you are, but why don't you just fix the image since you know what is causing it and prove me wrong? Those 6 causes shouldn't be much of a problem for you. No need to keep going back and forth, just fix her up.
 
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Okay, it's not desaturated - but it's not my image. Whatever it is, it's meaningless because the true image resolution has been massively nuked, resulting in complete misrepresentation of the actual pixel values.
I guess you just want to forget about the fact that you can see the haloing in the original image posted?
Yes, because that's from Nigel's embedded JPEG that only has a resolution of 1660 by 1080 pixels. We also don't know how that was generated. Only Nigel knows. Was it sharpened or otherwise manipulated? Regardless of the answers, the resolution shrinkage has invalidated the pixel data.
I posted the SOOC embedded JPEG from the raw file, with no edits. But it’s only useful to see how dark most of the room is in the original image. It’s much too small an image to be analysed in detail, let alone being blown up by 4x.
 
Okay, it's not desaturated - but it's not my image. Whatever it is, it's meaningless because the true image resolution has been massively nuked, resulting in complete misrepresentation of the actual pixel values.
I guess you just want to forget about the fact that you can see the haloing in the original image posted?
Yes, because that's from Nigel's embedded JPEG that only has a resolution of 1660 by 1080 pixels. We also don't know how that was generated. Only Nigel knows. Was it sharpened or otherwise manipulated? Regardless of the answers, the resolution shrinkage has invalidated the pixel data.
mfinley, post: 68229080, member: 1727339"]
.... It's just imported into lightroom and nothing more.
Jeez, just look at the images in that post to which you replied.

What madness does Lightroom do that would cause my image crop, which is this ...
I asked you how LIghtroom could turn my image into that unrelated thing you posted.
Since you don't have access to LR to see the problem, you keep trying to blame it on something else,
Right. I blame it on your mistake by calling it my image. I also blame the original mistake you made by trying to use a crop from a 1660 x 1080 image to analyze something that you need to crop from a 24MP image to actually analyze.
when one of the phantom causes doesn't remove it, you come up with another one. If I'm correct you're up to 6 at last count: chromatic aberration, aliasing, lossy compression, lens corrections, luminosity masks, and the latest one - sensor bloom...
You have corrected nothing whatsoever. You have utterly failed to disprove my contention that CA, aliasing, and luminosity masking should be considered as factors, as I first said.

I, on the other hand, have been pointing out your repeated mistakes.
Let us know how it turns out after you correct for all of those. If you need any help let me know.
Everything you've posted is mired in misinformation, so your conclusions are misinformation.
Again, no idea why you're so triggered by this,
It's important to call out misinformation, especially misinformation based on misinformation.
but why don't you just fix the image since you know what is causing it. Those 6 causes shouldn't be much of a problem for you.
I have posted three different edited versions of the RAW file that addressed some of the broken aspects. That's three more than you have posted. Besides, being able to fix an image is not at all the same as correctly determining why things about it are broken.
 
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Okay, it's not desaturated - but it's not my image. Whatever it is, it's meaningless because the true image resolution has been massively nuked, resulting in complete misrepresentation of the actual pixel values.
I guess you just want to forget about the fact that you can see the haloing in the original image posted?
Yes, because that's from Nigel's embedded JPEG that only has a resolution of 1660 by 1080 pixels. We also don't know how that was generated. Only Nigel knows. Was it sharpened or otherwise manipulated? Regardless of the answers, the resolution shrinkage has invalidated the pixel data.
I posted the SOOC embedded JPEG from the raw file, with no edits.
Just saying it could have had sharpening and other manipulations that are applied to JPEGs, not saying it does. I just now looked at EXIF, which says contrast, saturation, and sharpness were all set to Normal. I think 'Normal' sharpening means some sharpening of the embedded JPEG in Sony parlance, rather than none - though maybe not when shooting RAW only. I'm less sure about what the other two mean.
But it’s only useful to see how dark most of the room is in the original image. It’s much too small an image to be analysed in detail, let alone being blown up by 4x.
Exactly. That was the main issue.

And here's something else ...

I'm copying mfinley's image from this post:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4800285?page=3#forum-post-68227294

3f85238961f040e291918daa93148781.jpg


Below is an enlarged crop that I just made from your embedded JPEG in this post ...

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4800285#forum-post-68222826

... which mfinley said is the same JPEG that he cropped and enlarged.

My crop of the same source image

My crop of the same source image

The sizes of the objects in both images are essentially equal; the total pixel counts are essentially equal; so why does his image have much coarser 'pixels' than mine, with his white lines appearing so much more exaggerated than mine?

Another unexplained discrepancy.
 
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