Canon Pro-1100 Banding Follow-up

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

I agree that the problem appears to be related to the paper feed system.

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So they changed it from the Pro-1000? That seems unlikely to me, but of course I don't know.

In any case, if it's the new ink then changing the paper could also make a difference.

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I agree that it sounds unlikely - however it could be due to them simply changing a supplier of some component in the paper feed system of the Pro 1100 and the new supplier providing a substandard batch of parts. Admittedly not a very likely scenario either considering that the three Pro 1100’s that I have had span about a thousand serial numbers and they all display the same issue.

As to changing paper types, I have replicated the banding issue across different media types (matte, glossy, satin) and brands (Canson, Hahnemuhle, Canon), so that’s unlikely to play a role.

As previously discussed, another potential cause of the issue could be that the reformulated Lucia II inks (which are supposed to have a different viscosity compared to the previous generation) behave differently than the Lucia I inks when they go through the Pro 1100 print head, which is the same as the Pro 1000. Not sure if this could hypothetically be a cause of the banding problem since I lack the technical knowledge to discuss it.

Whatever it is, here we are with two printers (the Pro 1000 and the Pro 1100) that are supposed to be very similar to one another and yet one works just fine as expected whilst the other one is marred by this vexing issue.

Gryphon69 said:

As to changing paper types, I have replicated the banding issue across different media types (matte, glossy, satin) and brands (Canson, Hahnemuhle, Canon), so that’s unlikely to play a role.

As previously discussed, another potential cause of the issue could be that the reformulated Lucia II inks (which are supposed to have a different viscosity compared to the previous generation) behave differently than the Lucia I inks when they go through the Pro 1100 print head, which is the same as the Pro 1000. Not sure if this could hypothetically be a cause of the banding problem since I lack the technical knowledge to discuss it.

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Oh, I agree that by far the most likely culprit is the new ink.

My guess is that the banding is it not flowing through all the nozzles in the printhead properly, and the fact that they're horizontal makes that all but certain - not that I studied printerology either.

If it were the paper feed then you'd expect the bands to run from the top to the bottom of the page. They'd be more like scratches from abrasion as the paper goes through.

The only reason I mentioned the paper is what you wrote here:

"As I mentioned, my third printer is marginally better than the previous ones in that if I get banding while printing an image on a certain type of paper, switching to a different type of paper generally results in no banding."

And if I were going to sleuth why that is, I'd guess that it's because the paper is more absorbent (unlikely), because the printhead is flowing better (either due to it heating up or to more ink having been forced through), or - most likely - random correlation.

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

As to changing paper types, I have replicated the banding issue across different media types (matte, glossy, satin) and brands (Canson, Hahnemuhle, Canon), so that’s unlikely to play a role.

As previously discussed, another potential cause of the issue could be that the reformulated Lucia II inks (which are supposed to have a different viscosity compared to the previous generation) behave differently than the Lucia I inks when they go through the Pro 1100 print head, which is the same as the Pro 1000. Not sure if this could hypothetically be a cause of the banding problem since I lack the technical knowledge to discuss it.

Click to expand...

Oh, I agree that by far the most likely culprit is the new ink.

My guess is that the banding is it not flowing through all the nozzles in the printhead properly, and the fact that they're horizontal makes that all but certain - not that I studied printerology either.

If it were the paper feed then you'd expect the bands to run from the top to the bottom of the page. They'd be more like scratches from abrasion as the paper goes through.

The only reason I mentioned the paper is what you wrote here:

"As I mentioned, my third printer is marginally better than the previous ones in that if I get banding while printing an image on a certain type of paper, switching to a different type of paper generally results in no banding."

And if I were going to sleuth why that is, I'd guess that it's because the paper is more absorbent (unlikely), because the printhead is flowing better (either due to it heating up or to more ink having been forced through), or - most likely - random correlation.

Click to expand...

Yeah, honestly this whole situation is so aggravating. Like I said, when the Pro 1100 works, it really produces beautiful prints - you just wish there were some consistency and dependability, which at this time there isn’t.

I follow what you’re saying, but just to be clear: all the banding that I have experienced is parallel to the short end of the sheet that gets fed to the printer (like, parallel to the 11” side of an 11x17” sheet). I just wanted to clarify that in case I had not described it more clearly before.

The root cause of this issue is really anybody’s guess at this time: I really just hope that it’s something that can be addressed through a firmware update as I am tired of setting up new printers…

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

I agree that the problem appears to be related to the paper feed system.

Click to expand...

So they changed it from the Pro-1000? That seems unlikely to me, but of course I don't know.

Click to expand...

My theory is that they didn't redesign it but they may have sourced some parts from a different supplier. We are talking about needing to move paper to an accuracy of 0.021mm. If any of the gears are microscopically smaller than they should be there will be some play in the paper feed and you won't get consistent advancement length. That matches the behaviors I've seen. Hell it could be a change in formula of the plastic in a gear and now it has a greater coefficient of thermal expansion and the printer can only feed correctly at a specific room temp.

Ryan Mack said:

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

I agree that the problem appears to be related to the paper feed system.

Click to expand...

So they changed it from the Pro-1000? That seems unlikely to me, but of course I don't know.

Click to expand...

My theory is that they didn't redesign it but they may have sourced some parts from a different supplier. We are talking about needing to move paper to an accuracy of 0.021mm. If any of the gears are microscopically smaller than they should be there will be some play in the paper feed and you won't get consistent advancement length. That matches the behaviors I've seen. Hell it could be a change in formula of the plastic in a gear and now it has a greater coefficient of thermal expansion and the printer can only feed correctly at a specific room temp.

Click to expand...

I think that makes a lot of sense, Ryan, and like you said it is consistent with what I (and I believe you) have been experiencing with our Pro 1100’s.

The problem is that, if that is in fact the cause of the banding issue, it may be a while before they fix it as I would imagine there is going to be quite a lot of back and forth between Canon and the supplier in question to establish that there is an issue with the parts that they supply and then either the supplier can fix the part or Canon must go to a different supplier.

And all this assumes that Canon is acting on this issue to begin with, which we have no certainty of. Ugh.

Gryphon69 said:

jochenb said:

Gryphon69 said:

Gryphon, how does Canon react now that your 3rd copy still shows the issues?

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I agree that the problem appears to be related to the paper feed system. Canon USA has not reacted to my latest findings yet because I had not had the time to sit down and put them all together in a new note for them (they must be dreading seeing one of my emails in their inbox by now…) This weekend I could get to it though and have sent them my new note. I will let you know what comes out of it (if anything) when I hear back from them.

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I finally have some good news to report about the Pro 1100 banding issue.

Today Canon USA responded to my report about my third Pro 1100 unit still being affected by banding and for the first time they are no longer pushing back or trying to deflect by blaming paper manufacturers.

They acknowledged the issue and said that they had escalated it to Canon Japan. They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference, but other than that they said that at this time Canon USA does not have a fix or workaround to suggest until they hear back from Canon Japan.

While this does not resolve our issue yet, I see it as an important step forward on the way to finding a resolution because Canon has finally acknowledged the issue as being a printer issue and escalated it to the manufacturer (Canon Japan) where the issue belongs. At least now we can expect that Canon will take a hard look at the problem, identify its cause and hopefully come up with a solution. I am not holding my breath for their answer, but it sounds like something is moving in the right direction at last.

I think that this change in pace is due to a mounting number of user complaints about the banding issue, which shows how important it is for users to speak up about product defects in order to reach critical mass and put pressure on the manufacturer to take action.

We’ll see where this goes.

Thank you for your persistence on this! Certainly will benefit us all that have seen the same issues.

Gryphon69 said:

They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference,

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What did they suggest you change?

DanIel P Bell said:

Gryphon69 said:

They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference,

Click to expand...

What did they suggest you change?

Click to expand...

This is what they suggested I test:

From the home screen of the printer, navigate to Various Settings > Printer Settings > Print Settings > IPP Print Settings > Print Quality Settings > Color Mode
Within this menu, the default setting is Color (perceptual). Please try each of these in turn:
-Color (correct off)
-ICC Profile (perceptual)
-ICC Profile (absolute)

Gryphon69 said:

I think that this change in pace is due to a mounting number of user complaints about the banding issue

Click to expand...

Well yeah.

But am I right that this is only the Pro-1100 and not the -2600 and -4600, or is it just that there are far more of the -1100s out there?

Gryphon69 said:

DanIel P Bell said:

Gryphon69 said:

They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference,

Click to expand...

What did they suggest you change?

Click to expand...

This is what they suggested I test:

From the home screen of the printer, navigate to Various Settings > Printer Settings > Print Settings > IPP Print Settings > Print Quality Settings > Color Mode
Within this menu, the default setting is Color (perceptual). Please try each of these in turn:
-Color (correct off)
-ICC Profile (perceptual)
-ICC Profile (absolute)

Click to expand...

That’s incredibly dumb. Those settings only apply when using IPP to print. That wouldn’t be relevant to anyone using the Canon drivers.

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

I think that this change in pace is due to a mounting number of user complaints about the banding issue

Click to expand...

Well yeah.

But am I right that this is only the Pro-1100 and not the -2600 and -4600, or is it just that there are far more of the -1100s out there?

Click to expand...

There are reports of banding issues also for the x600 line, where users suggest it may be caused by ink starvation due to a potentially faulty ink pump:

Ryan Mack said:

Gryphon69 said:

DanIel P Bell said:

Gryphon69 said:

They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference,

Click to expand...

What did they suggest you change?

Click to expand...

This is what they suggested I test:

From the home screen of the printer, navigate to Various Settings > Printer Settings > Print Settings > IPP Print Settings > Print Quality Settings > Color Mode
Within this menu, the default setting is Color (perceptual). Please try each of these in turn:
-Color (correct off)
-ICC Profile (perceptual)
-ICC Profile (absolute)

Click to expand...

That’s incredibly dumb. Those settings only apply when using IPP to print. That wouldn’t be relevant to anyone using the Canon drivers.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan - apologies for the dumb question, but IPP is a network protocol, right? So are you saying that those settings would only be relevant to users who had access to one or more Pro 1100’s over a network? I just want to make sure that I understand.

Gryphon69 said:

Ryan Mack said:

Gryphon69 said:

DanIel P Bell said:

Gryphon69 said:

They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference,

Click to expand...

What did they suggest you change?

Click to expand...

This is what they suggested I test:

From the home screen of the printer, navigate to Various Settings > Printer Settings > Print Settings > IPP Print Settings > Print Quality Settings > Color Mode
Within this menu, the default setting is Color (perceptual). Please try each of these in turn:
-Color (correct off)
-ICC Profile (perceptual)
-ICC Profile (absolute)

Click to expand...

That’s incredibly dumb. Those settings only apply when using IPP to print. That wouldn’t be relevant to anyone using the Canon drivers.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan - apologies for the dumb question, but IPP is a network protocol, right? So are you saying that those settings would only be relevant to users who had access to one or more Pro 1100’s over a network? I just want to make sure that I understand.

Click to expand...

It’s a standard network protocol for printers like http for web. Any modern computer can print to an IPP printer without needing a printer-specific driver installed. Without a driver there is no color management settings sent to the printer, which is why the printer needs to be set via the menu. As long as you install the canon or apple driver then the driver lets you set the color management mode so the printer won’t rely on what you set in this menu. This is true whether the driver uses usb or the network.

Ryan Mack said:

Gryphon69 said:

Ryan Mack said:

Gryphon69 said:

DanIel P Bell said:

Gryphon69 said:

They suggested I try changing one more setting on the printer to see if it makes a difference,

Click to expand...

What did they suggest you change?

Click to expand...

This is what they suggested I test:

From the home screen of the printer, navigate to Various Settings > Printer Settings > Print Settings > IPP Print Settings > Print Quality Settings > Color Mode
Within this menu, the default setting is Color (perceptual). Please try each of these in turn:
-Color (correct off)
-ICC Profile (perceptual)
-ICC Profile (absolute)

Click to expand...

That’s incredibly dumb. Those settings only apply when using IPP to print. That wouldn’t be relevant to anyone using the Canon drivers.

Click to expand...

Thanks Ryan - apologies for the dumb question, but IPP is a network protocol, right? So are you saying that those settings would only be relevant to users who had access to one or more Pro 1100’s over a network? I just want to make sure that I understand.

Click to expand...

It’s a standard network protocol for printers like http for web. Any modern computer can print to an IPP printer without needing a printer-specific driver installed. Without a driver there is no color management settings sent to the printer, which is why the printer needs to be set via the menu. As long as you install the canon or apple driver then the driver lets you set the color management mode so the printer won’t rely on what you set in this menu. This is true whether the driver uses usb or the network.

Click to expand...

Got it! Thank you so much for the explanation - and for keeping me from wasting more paper to run a pointless test!

Gryphon69 said:

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

I think that this change in pace is due to a mounting number of user complaints about the banding issue

Click to expand...

Well yeah.

But am I right that this is only the Pro-1100 and not the -2600 and -4600, or is it just that there are far more of the -1100s out there?

Click to expand...

There are reports of banding issues also for the x600 line, where users suggest it may be caused by ink starvation due to a potentially faulty ink pump:

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/...nding-on-new-imagePROGRAF-PRO-2600/m-p/499973

Click to expand...

Gryphon69,

It is great news that finally Canon is acknowledging the issue. About time!

I have a PRO-2600 since mid January and have not seen any banding in any of my prints.

There are of course differences in technology between the PRO-1100 and the PRO-x600 printers. One of them is that the bigger printers have sensors on the printer head carriage that constantly check the paper advancement during printing and correct on the fly if needed.
Canon's USA David Rice have said that paper feed adjustment therefor is no longer needed at all on these printers. And Canon here in the Netherlands acknowledge that to me when I asked. David Rice mentioned it in a video made by Lexjet.

I do hope the issue with the PRO-1100 will be solved soon!

Cheers,
Remko

I've been following this thread for months, waiting for some word of resolution.

I didn't necessarily need the PRO-1100, but I wanted it. With that in mind, I started looking at the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-310 (I can print what I need at 13" wide). I believe that Canon released the 310 shortly after the 1100, so it hasn't been available for as long and there weren't many reviews of it online (as of the last time I actually checked).

I'm glad Canon is recognizing that there is a problem, and is no longer passing it off on the paper companies' profiles or anyone/anything else.

I'm going to see if there are any fresh reviews of the 310. If it also has banding issues, there's a good chance that it is the new ink formulation for this class of printers.

If I find anything new, I'll let y'all know.

Remko II said:

Gryphon69 said:

nickbatz said:

Gryphon69 said:

I think that this change in pace is due to a mounting number of user complaints about the banding issue

Click to expand...

Well yeah.

But am I right that this is only the Pro-1100 and not the -2600 and -4600, or is it just that there are far more of the -1100s out there?

Click to expand...

There are reports of banding issues also for the x600 line, where users suggest it may be caused by ink starvation due to a potentially faulty ink pump:

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/...nding-on-new-imagePROGRAF-PRO-2600/m-p/499973

Click to expand...

Gryphon69,

It is great news that finally Canon is acknowledging the issue. About time!

I have a PRO-2600 since mid January and have not seen any banding in any of my prints.

There are of course differences in technology between the PRO-1100 and the PRO-x600 printers. One of them is that the bigger printers have sensors on the printer head carriage that constantly check the paper advancement during printing and correct on the fly if needed.
Canon's USA David Rice have said that paper feed adjustment therefor is no longer needed at all on these printers. And Canon here in the Netherlands acknowledge that to me when I asked. David Rice mentioned it in a video made by Lexjet.

I do hope the issue with the PRO-1100 will be solved soon!

Cheers,
Remko

Click to expand...

Hi Remko,

Thanks for weighing in - this is very interesting!

If I am not mistaken, Canon large format printers have (or used to have?) a setting where the user could choose between a paper feed rate that would prioritize speed or quality (with the quality setting being meant to minimize banding). Does your 2600 still have that setting or has it been replaced by the optical-mechanical system that you described (which sounds very cool, I’d say)?

I agree that it was about time for Canon to acknowledge the banding issue with the Pro 1100 - it took them almost 6 months in my case. I am glad to hear that you don’t have to deal with that problem with your 2600 and hope that some day I will be able to say the same about mine too! ;-)

focal yokel said:

I've been following this thread for months, waiting for some word of resolution.

I didn't necessarily need the PRO-1100, but I wanted it. With that in mind, I started looking at the Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-310 (I can print what I need at 13" wide). I believe that Canon released the 310 shortly after the 1100, so it hasn't been available for as long and there weren't many reviews of it online (as of the last time I actually checked).

I'm glad Canon is recognizing that there is a problem, and is no longer passing it off on the paper companies' profiles or anyone/anything else.

I'm going to see if there are any fresh reviews of the 310. If it also has banding issues, there's a good chance that it is the new ink formulation for this class of printers.

If I find anything new, I'll let y'all know.

Click to expand...

This whole banding issue is so unfortunate: if it wasn’t affected by it, I would have nothing but praise for the Pro 1100 - it is such a solidly built printer which is capable of producing some fabulous prints, both in terms of sharpness and accuracy/vibrancy of colors. However, until that problem is resolved once and for all I cannot honestly recommend it.

I am not familiar with the Pro 310, other than reading that basically it is a Pro 1100 in 13” wide format. If I am not mistaken, Keith Cooper (who is an esteemed member of this forum) published one or more YouTube reviews of the 310 that he got to test. Not sure if you watched those, if not they are highly recommended and you may see if he says anything about banding (he did comment about the problem in one of his reviews of the 1100).

Howdy, Gryphon69

From what I've learned they are very similar, except for the size.

I Googled 'user reviews', and there weren't many that weren't companies selling the printers. There were a couple of owner reviews on Reddit, but many people in those comment threads were commenting on the 300 — whis is to the 310 as the 1000 was to the 1100. One series of comments was people waiting for the drivers for their Macs . Canon was telling them that the drivers would be out within the month (that was November '24), and I think that the drivers have since been released. Even though they didn't go to any great lengths to comment on the quality of the prints they were getting, i was interested because I'm a Mac user. Unfortunately, not much was said about print quality, one way or the other.

I'm going to keep watching this thread. I'm glad that you're finally getting some good prints, and I'm glad Canon seems to be taking the problems you've been dealing with, seriously.