Will Nikon respond to the long tele-zoom from Sony and Canon?

vbuhay said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

vbuhay said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

MKenna said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

vbuhay said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

Leonard Shepherd said:

rgs_45 said:

Canon have the 200-800/6.3-9.0 and now Sony came out with the 400-800/6.3-8.0.

Will Nikon respond back?

Click to expand...

Probably.

Whether they will go for something optically better than the low price point Sony is for the future.

I have not seen any "test chart" reviews of the 200-800.

Click to expand...

Yeah the Sony 400-800 is not exceptional optically.

Mind you, the Canon 200-800 is not an L lens and the f/9.0 maximum aperture at 800mm is rather limiting. I know it's not bad optically though, just tight aperture.

Imho, Nikon already has the best super telephoto range of any lens mount (short maybe of micro four thirds). I don't think they have to worry too much about it, or rush a new lens out.

The 180-600 is good enough and if people really want to match the canon 200-800, they just have to get a 1.4x TC to basically get a similar lens (as it turns the 180-600 f/5.6-6.3 into a 252-840mm f/8-9)

Click to expand...

rather than developing an Ultra- Tele lens for the Z system why not just develop the Z90 or z500 - a Dx Body with a higher resolution (33mpx) sensor which like myself have been clamoring for and use the current long zooms and prime that is already available now.... I actually finally did that by buying the Z50II which I am using with my 500 PF+FTZII giving me and equivalent 750mm at f5.6 which is giving me great results so far;









I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

High res stacked sensor APS-C is a fantasy. No one produces a sensor like that at the moment, and Nikon has said several times that their aim for APS-C was entry level and maybe mid-range, but not high end.

Besides, you can get more money if you push people to full frame cameras and full frame lenses. There are other systems if you want a fast crop sensor camera for wildlife (Fujifilm, OM System being the leaders there)

Click to expand...

Fuji has a 26MP stacked BSI, not sure if it's a Sony or not, but it's not bad.

Click to expand...

Yes it's a Sony sensor.

vbuhay said:

Nikon is too far down in the FF lane now.

Click to expand...

Highest end Nikon would make in APS-C is the exact same Canon would : mid range body, as a D7500 replacement, not a D500 replacement (just like the EOS R7 is a 90D replacement, not a 7DII replacement)

vbuhay said:

I would give it 1% chance for a Z500...

Click to expand...

I'd give it less, to be completely honest.

Click to expand...

OK, here is an alternative : DJI is possibly going to announce a Mirrorless Camera.... So why not target this underserved market with a DX body(33mpx Stacked Sensor) and lens adapters for Sony/Canon/Nikon/Fuji mounts? DGI may already have a sensor for this since they are experts on smaller sensors for their drones!

Click to expand...

Well, I don't want to sound harsh or anything, but sensors in DJI products... are Sony sensors.

And if DJI was to release a mirrorless camera... it would probably be a full frame one. They have already released lenses in the L mount for the Ronin 4D (which has the same sensor as the Lumix S1RII).

I'd be extremely surprised if DJI invested in that segment. In today's camera market, if you want to have a high end crop sensor camera, you generally have to go look for brands that are locked in the system, with that format : Fujifilm (with the X-H2S, as you can't fit a full frame sensor in the X mount), OMDS (with the OM-1ii, as you can't fit an APS-C or full frame sensor in the MFT mount) or Lumix (with the G9ii / GH7, for the same reasons as OMDS)

Click to expand...

There are other Sensor Manufacturers out there - like Tower Jazz....

Click to expand...

vbuhay said:

Most if not all Digital Full frame Cameras started with a crop sensor....

Click to expand...

vbuhay said:

It is a surprise to me that DJI is even moving towards Mirroless Cameras at all....

Click to expand...

vbuhay said:

and they don't even have to worry about lenses since the idea is to use the other lens manufacturers....

Click to expand...

vbuhay said:

Then they could go after full frame, medium format, video and broadcast /cinema Markets.... but the would need to differntiate themselves against the status quo by having the capability of AF/Tracking similar to what they have now in their Auto Gimbals....

Click to expand...

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

MJ_Photo38 said:

vbuhay said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

vbuhay said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

MKenna said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

vbuhay said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

Leonard Shepherd said:

rgs_45 said:

Canon have the 200-800/6.3-9.0 and now Sony came out with the 400-800/6.3-8.0.

Will Nikon respond back?

Click to expand...

Probably.

Whether they will go for something optically better than the low price point Sony is for the future.

I have not seen any "test chart" reviews of the 200-800.

Click to expand...

Yeah the Sony 400-800 is not exceptional optically.

Mind you, the Canon 200-800 is not an L lens and the f/9.0 maximum aperture at 800mm is rather limiting. I know it's not bad optically though, just tight aperture.

Imho, Nikon already has the best super telephoto range of any lens mount (short maybe of micro four thirds). I don't think they have to worry too much about it, or rush a new lens out.

The 180-600 is good enough and if people really want to match the canon 200-800, they just have to get a 1.4x TC to basically get a similar lens (as it turns the 180-600 f/5.6-6.3 into a 252-840mm f/8-9)

Click to expand...

rather than developing an Ultra- Tele lens for the Z system why not just develop the Z90 or z500 - a Dx Body with a higher resolution (33mpx) sensor which like myself have been clamoring for and use the current long zooms and prime that is already available now.... I actually finally did that by buying the Z50II which I am using with my 500 PF+FTZII giving me and equivalent 750mm at f5.6 which is giving me great results so far;









I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

High res stacked sensor APS-C is a fantasy. No one produces a sensor like that at the moment, and Nikon has said several times that their aim for APS-C was entry level and maybe mid-range, but not high end.

Besides, you can get more money if you push people to full frame cameras and full frame lenses. There are other systems if you want a fast crop sensor camera for wildlife (Fujifilm, OM System being the leaders there)

Click to expand...

Fuji has a 26MP stacked BSI, not sure if it's a Sony or not, but it's not bad.

Click to expand...

Yes it's a Sony sensor.

MJ_Photo38 said:

Nikon is too far down in the FF lane now.

Click to expand...

Highest end Nikon would make in APS-C is the exact same Canon would : mid range body, as a D7500 replacement, not a D500 replacement (just like the EOS R7 is a 90D replacement, not a 7DII replacement)

MJ_Photo38 said:

I would give it 1% chance for a Z500...

Click to expand...

I'd give it less, to be completely honest.

Click to expand...

OK, here is an alternative : DJI is possibly going to announce a Mirrorless Camera.... So why not target this underserved market with a DX body(33mpx Stacked Sensor) and lens adapters for Sony/Canon/Nikon/Fuji mounts? DGI may already have a sensor for this since they are experts on smaller sensors for their drones!

Click to expand...

Well, I don't want to sound harsh or anything, but sensors in DJI products... are Sony sensors.

And if DJI was to release a mirrorless camera... it would probably be a full frame one. They have already released lenses in the L mount for the Ronin 4D (which has the same sensor as the Lumix S1RII).

I'd be extremely surprised if DJI invested in that segment. In today's camera market, if you want to have a high end crop sensor camera, you generally have to go look for brands that are locked in the system, with that format : Fujifilm (with the X-H2S, as you can't fit a full frame sensor in the X mount), OMDS (with the OM-1ii, as you can't fit an APS-C or full frame sensor in the MFT mount) or Lumix (with the G9ii / GH7, for the same reasons as OMDS)

Click to expand...

There are other Sensor Manufacturers out there - like Tower Jazz....

Click to expand...

Yes but 1" and up : that's generally Sony, especially if we get above the micro four thirds size. Canon tends to only equip their own products, and the few sensors they sell are for industrial use, or scurity cameras, this sort of thing.

MJ_Photo38 said:

Most if not all Digital Full frame Cameras started with a crop sensor....

Click to expand...

Because of cost, but those constraints are not here anymore.

MJ_Photo38 said:

It is a surprise to me that DJI is even moving towards Mirroless Cameras at all....

Click to expand...

DJI joined the L-Mount alliance back in 2022. It was only a matter of time.

MJ_Photo38 said:

and they don't even have to worry about lenses since the idea is to use the other lens manufacturers....

Click to expand...

They already have released their own lenses for the Ronin 4D

MJ_Photo38 said:

Then they could go after full frame, medium format, video and broadcast /cinema Markets.... but the would need to differntiate themselves against the status quo by having the capability of AF/Tracking similar to what they have now in their Auto Gimbals....

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

Those lenses with your Z50II are actually equivalent to the following on full frame...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

Click to expand...

vbuhay said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

Those lenses with your Z50II are actually equivalent to the following on full frame...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

Click to expand...

I think you are right in regards to the equivalent F-STOP, but I have always thought that since the aperture diameter does not change that the equivalent f stop remains....so f-stop = focal lenght/ aperture diameter so if the lens is f1.4 at 50mm the aperture is 35.71mm, so when you use that same lens on an APS C camera it still should be f1.4 since the lens still has a focal length of 50mm and the aperture did not change at 35.71mm.... but the apparent view (equivalent) is now 75mm on the APS C (smaller - Cropped) Sensor. So the amount of light falling on the sensor per unit area is the same right? or is it the total area that is less from full frame to Cropped sensor?.... Could you enlighten me on this?

Click to expand...

• Perspective
• Framing
• Exposure time
• Depth of field, Noise, Diffraction
• Lightness
• Image size

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

Those lenses with your Z50II are actually equivalent to the following on full frame...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

Click to expand...

I think you are right in regards to the equivalent F-STOP, but I have always thought that since the aperture diameter does not change that the equivalent f stop remains....so f-stop = focal lenght/ aperture diameter so if the lens is f1.4 at 50mm the aperture is 35.71mm, so when you use that same lens on an APS C camera it still should be f1.4 since the lens still has a focal length of 50mm and the aperture did not change at 35.71mm.... but the apparent view (equivalent) is now 75mm on the APS C (smaller - Cropped) Sensor. So the amount of light falling on the sensor per unit area is the same right? or is it the total area that is less from full frame to Cropped sensor?.... Could you enlighten me on this?

Click to expand...

TL;DR: When we talk about equivalent lenses, we're really talking about the settings and lens qualities that allow different format systems to make the same photo.

=======

A lens's physical qualities don't change. A 500mm f/5.6 lens is always 500mm f/5.6.

When we quote the equivalent lens paired with a different format camera, we're saying this APS-C system performs the same as that full frame system. The key word here is, system. A lens and camera perform as a system. Each has physical qualities that are quantifiable and don't change. Together, they perform as a system to produce a predictable result; a photo having certain qualities.

To illustrate, the photo made by an APS-C system at 500mm, f/5.6, 1/100, ISO 100 is the same as the photo made by a full frame system at 750mm, f/8, 1/100, ISO 200. What do we mean by, the same? Both photos share these qualities:

• Perspective
• Framing
• Exposure time
• Depth of field, Noise, Diffraction
• Lightness
• Image size

Perspective: Both photos were made from the same position.

Framing: A 750mm focal length on a full frame camera produces a photo with the same framing as a photo made with a 500mm lens on an APS-C system.

Exposure Time: Both photos were made at the same shutter speed to render movement the same.

Depth of field, Noise Diffraction: Both systems work with the same lens entrance pupil diameter. As a result, both photos have the same DoF, are made with the same total light energy (have the same noise), and have the same diffraction.

Lightness: Both photos have the same lightness.

Size: Both photos are the same size and compared at the same distance to determine that they share the other qualities and are the same.

The key to achieving that same performance - making the same photo - is both systems working with the same total light energy. This is different from exposure. By definition, equivalent systems are of different formats and work with different f-stops, exposure and ISOs to make the same photo. This is required in order to allow both systems to work with the same total light.

When saying a 500mm f/5.6 lens on an APS-C camera is equivalent to a 750mm f/8 lens on a full frame camera, we're not saying any of the lenses or cameras involved literally change their physical qualities. We're saying those systems perform the same; they make the same photo at the right settings.

Click to expand...

Bill Ferris said:

Another option would be an internal zooming 200-500mm f/4-4.5. If small & light enough to be comfortably handholdable, that's a lens Nikon could price at $5K to $6K and move like hotcakes.

Click to expand...

Andy Lucy said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

Those lenses with your Z50II are actually equivalent to the following on full frame...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

Click to expand...

I think you are right in regards to the equivalent F-STOP, but I have always thought that since the aperture diameter does not change that the equivalent f stop remains....so f-stop = focal lenght/ aperture diameter so if the lens is f1.4 at 50mm the aperture is 35.71mm, so when you use that same lens on an APS C camera it still should be f1.4 since the lens still has a focal length of 50mm and the aperture did not change at 35.71mm.... but the apparent view (equivalent) is now 75mm on the APS C (smaller - Cropped) Sensor. So the amount of light falling on the sensor per unit area is the same right? or is it the total area that is less from full frame to Cropped sensor?.... Could you enlighten me on this?

Click to expand...

TL;DR: When we talk about equivalent lenses, we're really talking about the settings and lens qualities that allow different format systems to make the same photo.

=======

A lens's physical qualities don't change. A 500mm f/5.6 lens is always 500mm f/5.6.

When we quote the equivalent lens paired with a different format camera, we're saying this APS-C system performs the same as that full frame system. The key word here is, system. A lens and camera perform as a system. Each has physical qualities that are quantifiable and don't change. Together, they perform as a system to produce a predictable result; a photo having certain qualities.

To illustrate, the photo made by an APS-C system at 500mm, f/5.6, 1/100, ISO 100 is the same as the photo made by a full frame system at 750mm, f/8, 1/100, ISO 200. What do we mean by, the same? Both photos share these qualities:

• Perspective
• Framing
• Exposure time
• Depth of field, Noise, Diffraction
• Lightness
• Image size

Perspective: Both photos were made from the same position.

Framing: A 750mm focal length on a full frame camera produces a photo with the same framing as a photo made with a 500mm lens on an APS-C system.

Exposure Time: Both photos were made at the same shutter speed to render movement the same.

Depth of field, Noise Diffraction: Both systems work with the same lens entrance pupil diameter. As a result, both photos have the same DoF, are made with the same total light energy (have the same noise), and have the same diffraction.

Lightness: Both photos have the same lightness.

Size: Both photos are the same size and compared at the same distance to determine that they share the other qualities and are the same.

The key to achieving that same performance - making the same photo - is both systems working with the same total light energy. This is different from exposure. By definition, equivalent systems are of different formats and work with different f-stops, exposure and ISOs to make the same photo. This is required in order to allow both systems to work with the same total light.

When saying a 500mm f/5.6 lens on an APS-C camera is equivalent to a 750mm f/8 lens on a full frame camera, we're not saying any of the lenses or cameras involved literally change their physical qualities. We're saying those systems perform the same; they make the same photo at the right settings.

Click to expand...

Bill,

You say that formats with different sensor sizes can perform the same. This is so, under some circumstances. However, since there is always - always - some variable in the two systems that is different, under some particular circumstance this will be noticeable.

If you take two systems with different sensor sizes but working with equal total light energy, the system with the larger sensor can absorb more light before it saturates. Thus, in some circumstances, the smaller sensor will clip highlights that will not be clipped with the large sensor. Under this particular circumstance the two systems are not equivalent.

Click to expand...

Bill Ferris said:

Andy Lucy said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

Those lenses with your Z50II are actually equivalent to the following on full frame...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

Click to expand...

I think you are right in regards to the equivalent F-STOP, but I have always thought that since the aperture diameter does not change that the equivalent f stop remains....so f-stop = focal lenght/ aperture diameter so if the lens is f1.4 at 50mm the aperture is 35.71mm, so when you use that same lens on an APS C camera it still should be f1.4 since the lens still has a focal length of 50mm and the aperture did not change at 35.71mm.... but the apparent view (equivalent) is now 75mm on the APS C (smaller - Cropped) Sensor. So the amount of light falling on the sensor per unit area is the same right? or is it the total area that is less from full frame to Cropped sensor?.... Could you enlighten me on this?

Click to expand...

TL;DR: When we talk about equivalent lenses, we're really talking about the settings and lens qualities that allow different format systems to make the same photo.

=======

A lens's physical qualities don't change. A 500mm f/5.6 lens is always 500mm f/5.6.

When we quote the equivalent lens paired with a different format camera, we're saying this APS-C system performs the same as that full frame system. The key word here is, system. A lens and camera perform as a system. Each has physical qualities that are quantifiable and don't change. Together, they perform as a system to produce a predictable result; a photo having certain qualities.

To illustrate, the photo made by an APS-C system at 500mm, f/5.6, 1/100, ISO 100 is the same as the photo made by a full frame system at 750mm, f/8, 1/100, ISO 200. What do we mean by, the same? Both photos share these qualities:

• Perspective
• Framing
• Exposure time
• Depth of field, Noise, Diffraction
• Lightness
• Image size

Perspective: Both photos were made from the same position.

Framing: A 750mm focal length on a full frame camera produces a photo with the same framing as a photo made with a 500mm lens on an APS-C system.

Exposure Time: Both photos were made at the same shutter speed to render movement the same.

Depth of field, Noise Diffraction: Both systems work with the same lens entrance pupil diameter. As a result, both photos have the same DoF, are made with the same total light energy (have the same noise), and have the same diffraction.

Lightness: Both photos have the same lightness.

Size: Both photos are the same size and compared at the same distance to determine that they share the other qualities and are the same.

The key to achieving that same performance - making the same photo - is both systems working with the same total light energy. This is different from exposure. By definition, equivalent systems are of different formats and work with different f-stops, exposure and ISOs to make the same photo. This is required in order to allow both systems to work with the same total light.

When saying a 500mm f/5.6 lens on an APS-C camera is equivalent to a 750mm f/8 lens on a full frame camera, we're not saying any of the lenses or cameras involved literally change their physical qualities. We're saying those systems perform the same; they make the same photo at the right settings.

Click to expand...

Bill,

You say that formats with different sensor sizes can perform the same. This is so, under some circumstances. However, since there is always - always - some variable in the two systems that is different, under some particular circumstance this will be noticeable.

If you take two systems with different sensor sizes but working with equal total light energy, the system with the larger sensor can absorb more light before it saturates. Thus, in some circumstances, the smaller sensor will clip highlights that will not be clipped with the large sensor. Under this particular circumstance the two systems are not equivalent.

Click to expand...

The point is, different format systems can make equivalent photos and that helped to answer the vbuhay's question.

Click to expand...

Andy Lucy said:

Bill Ferris said:

Andy Lucy said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

Bill Ferris said:

vbuhay said:

I have also tested the Z50II with my 100-400mm (150-600mm f 5.6 equivalent) with good results

I have yet to test the Z50II with my 180--600 (270-900mm f6.3 equivalent) or my 800mm (1200mm f6.3 equivalent)

Click to expand...

Those lenses with your Z50II are actually equivalent to the following on full frame...

• 750mm f/8: equiv. to 500mm f/5.6 on APS-C
• 150-600mm f/6.3-8: equiv. to 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 on APS-C
• 270-900mm f/8-9: equiv. to 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3 on APS-C
• 1200mm f/9: equiv. to 800mm f/6.3 on APS-C

Click to expand...

I think you are right in regards to the equivalent F-STOP, but I have always thought that since the aperture diameter does not change that the equivalent f stop remains....so f-stop = focal lenght/ aperture diameter so if the lens is f1.4 at 50mm the aperture is 35.71mm, so when you use that same lens on an APS C camera it still should be f1.4 since the lens still has a focal length of 50mm and the aperture did not change at 35.71mm.... but the apparent view (equivalent) is now 75mm on the APS C (smaller - Cropped) Sensor. So the amount of light falling on the sensor per unit area is the same right? or is it the total area that is less from full frame to Cropped sensor?.... Could you enlighten me on this?

Click to expand...

TL;DR: When we talk about equivalent lenses, we're really talking about the settings and lens qualities that allow different format systems to make the same photo.

=======

A lens's physical qualities don't change. A 500mm f/5.6 lens is always 500mm f/5.6.

When we quote the equivalent lens paired with a different format camera, we're saying this APS-C system performs the same as that full frame system. The key word here is, system. A lens and camera perform as a system. Each has physical qualities that are quantifiable and don't change. Together, they perform as a system to produce a predictable result; a photo having certain qualities.

To illustrate, the photo made by an APS-C system at 500mm, f/5.6, 1/100, ISO 100 is the same as the photo made by a full frame system at 750mm, f/8, 1/100, ISO 200. What do we mean by, the same? Both photos share these qualities:

• Perspective
• Framing
• Exposure time
• Depth of field, Noise, Diffraction
• Lightness
• Image size

Perspective: Both photos were made from the same position.

Framing: A 750mm focal length on a full frame camera produces a photo with the same framing as a photo made with a 500mm lens on an APS-C system.

Exposure Time: Both photos were made at the same shutter speed to render movement the same.

Depth of field, Noise Diffraction: Both systems work with the same lens entrance pupil diameter. As a result, both photos have the same DoF, are made with the same total light energy (have the same noise), and have the same diffraction.

Lightness: Both photos have the same lightness.

Size: Both photos are the same size and compared at the same distance to determine that they share the other qualities and are the same.

The key to achieving that same performance - making the same photo - is both systems working with the same total light energy. This is different from exposure. By definition, equivalent systems are of different formats and work with different f-stops, exposure and ISOs to make the same photo. This is required in order to allow both systems to work with the same total light.

When saying a 500mm f/5.6 lens on an APS-C camera is equivalent to a 750mm f/8 lens on a full frame camera, we're not saying any of the lenses or cameras involved literally change their physical qualities. We're saying those systems perform the same; they make the same photo at the right settings.

Click to expand...

Bill,

You say that formats with different sensor sizes can perform the same. This is so, under some circumstances. However, since there is always - always - some variable in the two systems that is different, under some particular circumstance this will be noticeable.

If you take two systems with different sensor sizes but working with equal total light energy, the system with the larger sensor can absorb more light before it saturates. Thus, in some circumstances, the smaller sensor will clip highlights that will not be clipped with the large sensor. Under this particular circumstance the two systems are not equivalent.

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The point is, different format systems can make equivalent photos and that helped to answer the vbuhay's question.

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The point is, different format systems can make equivalent photos under some, but not all, circumstances.

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Inspired Shot said:

IMHO, Nikon already has a great line up. It's the other manufacturers that's playing catch up. They have no answers for the 800PF F6.3 yet. Nikon photographers are living in a great time right now with so many options. 400mm f4.5, 500mm PF, 600mm f6.3, 800mm F6.3., 400mm f2.8TC, 600mm F4TC, 100-400mm F4.5-5.6, 180-600mm f5.6-6.3. That is incredible! If anything, maybe just update the 500mm f5.6 PF to the new Z mount.

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Sigma 300-600 F4 Z Mount?

However, the Sigma is in a completely different category/league with f/4 @ 600mm and at least f/5.6 @ 840mm with 1.4x TC in the L-mount. A lens with these specs would certainly easily cost twice as much from CanNikSon. Maximum aperture f/8 at the long end of the Sony 400-800 and that will...

www.dpreview.com

Andy Lucy said:

You say that formats with different sensor sizes can perform the same. This is so, under some circumstances.

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