Think about Leica, Rebadged Lumix for twice the price eg: SL3
- Funny. Which Lumix is the rebadged SL3 please?
Prety sure he meant SL3S... which is basically a (worse) rebadged Lumix S5 mark II (with a better EVF and IP54 body)
So far the SL3 has no equivalents, but if you look at the previous gens, the S1R was basically a rebadged SL2, and the S1 was basically a rebadged SL2S.
"Rebadged" is disingenuous, at best. As you noted it's a (completely) different body with completely different ergonomics, better viewfinder and also has a top LCD panel, it's own operating system, etc. Leica has intelligently leveraged their partnership with Lumix to re-use the commoditized parts of a camera but have thoroughly made it their own.
That's not to say that I think the differences are
worth it, but it's unfair to call it "rebadged".
If the difference between those two cameras matter to you, that's en entirely new debate.
What I see is that it's the same sensor, with basically the same AF performance (actually slightly worse), with the same burst rate and with an interface that is cleaned up compared to what Lumix does, but less versatile with way less parameters that you have access to as a result (especially in regard to audio) and no active cooling.
You think it's disingenuous to say that it's a rebranded Lumix, I don't agree with that.
It's like saying the Lotus Elise was a "rebadged" Toyota because they use the same engine with the same torque and horsepower numbers. It's a very narrow-minded view of what makes a camera a camera, IMO.
That comparison doesn't hold. An engine has horsepower and torque numbers, but this isn't what says how fast a car is. The power to weight ratio does. A lotus Elise has a Toyota engine, but it also has a super lightweight, rigid chassis which gives it a considerably better cornering ability and much better acceleration and top speed than let's say... the Camry that uses the same engine. The Elise is more expensive than the Camry, because it's more focused, requires more hours to get assembled and tuned, and as a result is substantially faster and nimble. In short : it has capabilities and performance that isn't even in the same league as the Camry.
The SL3-S? It's exactly the same as the S5IIX.
No, it's not. That's the reason I chose the comparison I did. The "engine" is the same, the chassis is different.
You read what I wrote but chose to ignore the main point I was making...
Yeah, I stopped at you claiming they're "exactly the same", which is patently false unless you're
solely referring to specs.
I said several times that I was referring to the specs, almost exclusively. You do not read the entire response, yet you bother to respond.
Why?
I read it, I'm just responding to the most relevant parts. I'm at work and don't have time for line-by-line refutations.
Trying to boil a camera down to the "performance" you're referring to - the sensor specs, codecs, etc - is simply a way of winning the argument.
Yes. And? Should we try to actively lose arguments now?
I try to enter into these kinds of discussion with a genuine desire to "seek first to understand, then be understood".
Correct me if I'm wrong but... do you put more emphasis on the camera experience or on the results you get from it?
I personally consider both important, but in the case of the SL3-S... they're not 3500 USD important, if you catch my drift.
They're both important to me. But I would agree that the differences between the two aren't
enough for
me to pay extra for it. That said, if a few years from now the SL3-S is way cheaper on the used market I could see it replacing my S5 II.
But again, that doesn't qualify this as "rebadged", IMO. Here was one of your prior characterizations:
The SL3-S doesn't provide anything more than a red badge logo on the front, an IP rating, and a full metal body.
That is an unfair characterization, IMO.
Well, besides the build, upgraded screens and the menu system, what does the SL3-S provide over the S5IIX?
Much in the way that attaching the same engine to a manual gearbox vs. an automatic gearbox fundamentally changes the experience, so does the body and user interface of the camera.
Except in our case, the SL3 isn't more practical or more automated than an S5II. It has nice materials, feels better in the hand and has a simpler menu system.
That's basically what you get when paying 10k more for an Audi instead of a VW. You need to stop with those comparisons if you can't get them right.
Okay, if you want to stick with VW and Audi, I would say
I don't agree with your characterization of
those being rebadged either. Yes, they share the same platform and share a ton of components but they're packaged differently enough to not fall into that category, IMO.
In my mind it comes down to the percentage of the platform that's being shared. The difference between the S5 IIX and the SL3-S is
much more akin to your VW/Audi example than it is something like a Toyota Matrix vs. the Pontiac Vibe, for example.
But to quote Ferdinand Piech (again), about the Audi and the VW (and the whole group, could apply this to Skoda, Seat, Cupra, ...) : everything that you see is different, everything that you don't is the same.
It's the same thing happening with the S5II and the SL3. Everything that you see is different : the build, EVF, back screen, interface... luxury product comes with standards.
But everything that you don't see, is the same : same sensor, same burst rate, same autofocus, same video...
The SL3-S is an S5II in fancy clothes, just like the A4 is a Passat in fancy clothes.
