apple RAM and SSD tax--pay it?

JRET said:

Nick on the Baltic said:

I'm aware that their was some discussion a couple of years ago than some particular model of Mac with 512GB ran memory tests faster than the same model with 256GB, and the conclusion that this was because it used two 256GB modules that ran on two bus lanes rather than one. As I recall, the difference wasn't huge. Also, memory tests aren't real life.

Click to expand...

I remember reading about some testing comparing a single module vs two modules running on separate bus lanes. I don't remember all the details but seem to recall that the difference was enough to make me curious. And I agree, memory tests aren't real life.

That said - I assumed that if there was a speed improvement using 2 buses vs 1 bus, perhaps some type of RAID was being used. I have no way of testing this assumption but did attach a couple of OWC Express 1M2 enclosures (each with a 4TB NVMe m.2 ssd drive) to my M2 Max Studio and ran the BlackMagic test in a variety of ways.

Test results:
M2 Max Studio w/2TB drive - just over 6000
OWC 1M2 w/4TB (single drive) - just under 3000
Two OWC 1M2 (4TB each) in RAID 0 (using 2 thunderbolt ports) - well over 5000 ... not far from the Studio's internal drive.

I do try to keep the Studio's disk capacity under 50%, keeping only apps & a few other things on the Studio with everything else on external drives. This has worked well for me. I generally process photos/videos on the Studio's drive but don't hesitate to use the OWC RAID 0 set since it really is quite fast.

Since the RAID 0 has no protection in the event of failure I have it mirrored to another set of drives (SSD SATA) that aren't as fast but are quick enough should the RAID 0 set fail. Everything is backed up on separate spinners as well as off-site Cloud backup. My setup is not perfect, nor, for my needs, need to be. In the event of a total non-recoverable failure of my RAID 0 set, the most I would lose would be approx. 10-20 minutes of the most recent work. As a non-professional that's a degree of risk I'm comfortable with.

FWIW - I used to maintain a trio of Synology NAS drives. Great for backups and file serving but the bandwidth pales in comparison to DAS, especially when the drives are NVMe in RAID 0.

Click to expand...

Carolinaphoto said:

My 10 year old apple computer died, and I want a new moderately priced one. I am seeing two open box options for about $1400 to $1500, which are M3 Pro, 18GB RAM, 512 GB SSD and the less expensive one is 14", more expensive is 16".

These prices quickly escalate if I want more memory or SSD. I am fine putting more images on external storage or the cloud, but I want to keep the computer for at least 5-7 years, and even more if I can.

Do you personally feel 18GB and 512 GB will serve me well? I shoot with a D850 and I primarily do LR for editing. I do not do intensive layering, panoramic, or other things of the sort, but perhaps I might want to do that later on. No video.

Any thoughts?

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Yah, no...8gb of ram on a Mac is NOT the same as 16GB in a pc. It's been proven again and again. Just because you don't see a difference etc does not mean there is not one.

Click to expand...

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Yah, no...8gb of ram on a Mac is NOT the same as 16GB in a pc. It's been proven again and again. Just because you don't see a difference etc does not mean there is not one.

Click to expand...

Eh? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway; Macs use RAM much more efficiently than Windows machines. That was my point. So 8Gb in aMac = 16Gb in a PC. Generally. 8Gb in a Mac is significantly more efficient than 8Gb in a PC. So what might look 'underpowered' in a Mac, is in fact probably more than enough. As I've said; I can edit 4k 120fps video on my iMac, and that's not the latest model.

Some YouTube video where nothing can actually be accurately independently verified really isn't something I'd use as a yardstick, quite frankly. It's a video designed specifically to get clicks. Always take things with a pinch of salt. In real world use, a Mac user with 'only' 8Gb isn't going to notice any difference between that and a random PC with 16 Gb, over all sorts of tasks. Because the difference, if there even is one, will be negligible at best. I don't worry myself over such trivial matters, because life is too short.

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Yah, no...8gb of ram on a Mac is NOT the same as 16GB in a pc. It's been proven again and again. Just because you don't see a difference etc does not mean there is not one.

Click to expand...

Eh? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway; Macs use RAM much more efficiently than Windows machines. That was my point. So 8Gb in aMac = 16Gb in a PC. Generally. 8Gb in a Mac is significantly more efficient than 8Gb in a PC. So what might look 'underpowered' in a Mac, is in fact probably more than enough. As I've said; I can edit 4k 120fps video on my iMac, and that's not the latest model.

Some YouTube video where nothing can actually be accurately independently verified really isn't something I'd use as a yardstick, quite frankly. It's a video designed specifically to get clicks. Always take things with a pinch of salt. In real world use, a Mac user with 'only' 8Gb isn't going to notice any difference between that and a random PC with 16 Gb, over all sorts of tasks. Because the difference, if there even is one, will be negligible at best. I don't worry myself over such trivial matters, because life is too short.

Click to expand...

Again, it's not correct. You can edit blah blah blah, it does not make it faster than a pc with 16gb. It's fact. Proven time and time again with real world benchmarking. You are drinking the marketing koolaid. ram is ram is ram. No more no less. How they use the ram is not enough of a difference to show. Look at your SSD swap while you are doing your editing. I bet it's almost maxed out, prematurely wearing your SSD while claiming to be "faster" than 16gb.

Remember, in technology there are no free rides. Same with physics. That's why I won't be buying a mac with even 16gb of ram when I do. 64gb is minimum for me, and if when the time comes, they offer more in the mini and air, I will buy that. That way swap is a non issue wearing ssd prematurely.

Click to expand...

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Yah, no...8gb of ram on a Mac is NOT the same as 16GB in a pc. It's been proven again and again. Just because you don't see a difference etc does not mean there is not one.

Click to expand...

Eh? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway; Macs use RAM much more efficiently than Windows machines. That was my point. So 8Gb in aMac = 16Gb in a PC. Generally. 8Gb in a Mac is significantly more efficient than 8Gb in a PC. So what might look 'underpowered' in a Mac, is in fact probably more than enough. As I've said; I can edit 4k 120fps video on my iMac, and that's not the latest model.

Some YouTube video where nothing can actually be accurately independently verified really isn't something I'd use as a yardstick, quite frankly. It's a video designed specifically to get clicks. Always take things with a pinch of salt. In real world use, a Mac user with 'only' 8Gb isn't going to notice any difference between that and a random PC with 16 Gb, over all sorts of tasks. Because the difference, if there even is one, will be negligible at best. I don't worry myself over such trivial matters, because life is too short.

Click to expand...

Again, it's not correct. You can edit blah blah blah, it does not make it faster than a pc with 16gb. It's fact. Proven time and time again with real world benchmarking. You are drinking the marketing koolaid. ram is ram is ram. No more no less. How they use the ram is not enough of a difference to show. Look at your SSD swap while you are doing your editing. I bet it's almost maxed out, prematurely wearing your SSD while claiming to be "faster" than 16gb.

Remember, in technology there are no free rides. Same with physics. That's why I won't be buying a mac with even 16gb of ram when I do. 64gb is minimum for me, and if when the time comes, they offer more in the mini and air, I will buy that. That way swap is a non issue wearing ssd prematurely.

Click to expand...

How is what you're saying helping the OP? Have you actually considered that? They're asking for advice just on maybe buying a Mac with more RAM, that's all. And the advice they actually need, is 'yeah, go for it, more RAM is good'. They don't need a lecture on whether or not Apple are giving people 'Koolaid'. That is pointless and irrelevant. They just want to know if X machine will work with a given amount of RAM. That's really it. So spare us what YOU want, and consider what other people might actually NEED.

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Yah, no...8gb of ram on a Mac is NOT the same as 16GB in a pc. It's been proven again and again. Just because you don't see a difference etc does not mean there is not one.

Click to expand...

Eh? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway; Macs use RAM much more efficiently than Windows machines. That was my point. So 8Gb in aMac = 16Gb in a PC. Generally. 8Gb in a Mac is significantly more efficient than 8Gb in a PC. So what might look 'underpowered' in a Mac, is in fact probably more than enough. As I've said; I can edit 4k 120fps video on my iMac, and that's not the latest model.

Some YouTube video where nothing can actually be accurately independently verified really isn't something I'd use as a yardstick, quite frankly. It's a video designed specifically to get clicks. Always take things with a pinch of salt. In real world use, a Mac user with 'only' 8Gb isn't going to notice any difference between that and a random PC with 16 Gb, over all sorts of tasks. Because the difference, if there even is one, will be negligible at best. I don't worry myself over such trivial matters, because life is too short.

Click to expand...

Again, it's not correct. You can edit blah blah blah, it does not make it faster than a pc with 16gb. It's fact. Proven time and time again with real world benchmarking. You are drinking the marketing koolaid. ram is ram is ram. No more no less. How they use the ram is not enough of a difference to show. Look at your SSD swap while you are doing your editing. I bet it's almost maxed out, prematurely wearing your SSD while claiming to be "faster" than 16gb.

Remember, in technology there are no free rides. Same with physics. That's why I won't be buying a mac with even 16gb of ram when I do. 64gb is minimum for me, and if when the time comes, they offer more in the mini and air, I will buy that. That way swap is a non issue wearing ssd prematurely.

Click to expand...

How is what you're saying helping the OP? Have you actually considered that? They're asking for advice just on maybe buying a Mac with more RAM, that's all. And the advice they actually need, is 'yeah, go for it, more RAM is good'. They don't need a lecture on whether or not Apple are giving people 'Koolaid'. That is pointless and irrelevant. They just want to know if X machine will work with a given amount of RAM. That's really it. So spare us what YOU want, and consider what other people might actually NEED.

Click to expand...

Wow, touchy.

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

I am giving them advice. Buy at least 16gb and if not go 32gb. stay away from 8gb because it will wear your ssd much quicker because of ram swap that happens with the inadequate use of 8gb of ram on M series machines. There. better?

Click to expand...

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Yah, no...8gb of ram on a Mac is NOT the same as 16GB in a pc. It's been proven again and again. Just because you don't see a difference etc does not mean there is not one.

Click to expand...

Eh? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway; Macs use RAM much more efficiently than Windows machines. That was my point. So 8Gb in aMac = 16Gb in a PC. Generally. 8Gb in a Mac is significantly more efficient than 8Gb in a PC. So what might look 'underpowered' in a Mac, is in fact probably more than enough. As I've said; I can edit 4k 120fps video on my iMac, and that's not the latest model.

Some YouTube video where nothing can actually be accurately independently verified really isn't something I'd use as a yardstick, quite frankly. It's a video designed specifically to get clicks. Always take things with a pinch of salt. In real world use, a Mac user with 'only' 8Gb isn't going to notice any difference between that and a random PC with 16 Gb, over all sorts of tasks. Because the difference, if there even is one, will be negligible at best. I don't worry myself over such trivial matters, because life is too short.

Click to expand...

Again, it's not correct. You can edit blah blah blah, it does not make it faster than a pc with 16gb. It's fact. Proven time and time again with real world benchmarking. You are drinking the marketing koolaid. ram is ram is ram. No more no less. How they use the ram is not enough of a difference to show. Look at your SSD swap while you are doing your editing. I bet it's almost maxed out, prematurely wearing your SSD while claiming to be "faster" than 16gb.

Remember, in technology there are no free rides. Same with physics. That's why I won't be buying a mac with even 16gb of ram when I do. 64gb is minimum for me, and if when the time comes, they offer more in the mini and air, I will buy that. That way swap is a non issue wearing ssd prematurely.

Click to expand...

How is what you're saying helping the OP? Have you actually considered that? They're asking for advice just on maybe buying a Mac with more RAM, that's all. And the advice they actually need, is 'yeah, go for it, more RAM is good'. They don't need a lecture on whether or not Apple are giving people 'Koolaid'. That is pointless and irrelevant. They just want to know if X machine will work with a given amount of RAM. That's really it. So spare us what YOU want, and consider what other people might actually NEED.

Click to expand...

Wow, touchy.

Click to expand...

Amusing. You were the one being so insistent on being heard.

Hal Wilson said:

I am giving them advice. Buy at least 16gb and if not go 32gb. stay away from 8gb because it will wear your ssd much quicker because of ram swap that happens with the inadequate use of 8gb of ram on M series machines. There. better?

Click to expand...

Much. That's all you had to say in the beginning. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Hal Wilson said:

Just to respond to that insinuation; I've been using Macs for over 30 years now; mostly with Graphic Design and Photography, with a bit of video, 3-D and animation over the years. I know a good number of people in various related industries, and in the world of Game Design. The vast majority are generally working on machines that are not brand new (because stuff actually costs money in the Real World, and 'upgrading' every 6 months is stupid and pointless), not the utmost top spec, and never really what Someone On The Internet insists they need. Yet they still get stuff done, often to a very high level. Chances are, you will have viewed a website, watched a film, listened to some music, played a game etc produced at least in some small part, by someone I know. The reality of those industries is that most folk are working with what they've got, rather than always rushing out to buy the new latest and greatest.

So maybe you get a machine with 'only' 8Gb RAM. Is that going to stop you being creative? The answer is no. Would a higher spec machine enable higher productivity? Maybe. Personally. the difference between 8Gb and 16Gb on my iMac would be at most a couple of minutes more in post production, if I'm doing a batch of images for someone. But mostly I'm not working professionally, so I'm not so worried. The 8Gb machine will still do the job I need it to. There's been times in the past, where I've had to quit certain apps to help speed things up a bit, but that's no big deal; better to concentrate on one thing at a time. IME, lots of RAM only really comes into play if you're dealing with several big apps at once; say editing in Lr to export to Ps for further work to then produce images for a big graphics project, or whatever. And switching back and forth between things. But irl, this seldom happens unless you are working in some intensive field with mega tight deadlines etc. The vast majority of us don't, thankfully. If you're going to have a session in Lightroom, then switch off apps you're not currently using, open up Lr and do your thing. The memory usage indicator will never go above green, trust me.

TL;DR: Don't worry about it so much. RAM is important for sure, buy as much as you can afford/think you need. But then don't stress about it; it's gonna be fine...

As for 'Kool Aid'; I live in the UK, We don't have such a thing here. I don't think we go so big on coercive cults, either. We're just too cynical for all that.

Cup of tea, anyone?

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

Just to respond to that insinuation; I've been using Macs for over 30 years now; mostly with Graphic Design and Photography, with a bit of video, 3-D and animation over the years. I know a good number of people in various related industries, and in the world of Game Design. The vast majority are generally working on machines that are not brand new (because stuff actually costs money in the Real World, and 'upgrading' every 6 months is stupid and pointless), not the utmost top spec, and never really what Someone On The Internet insists they need. Yet they still get stuff done, often to a very high level. Chances are, you will have viewed a website, watched a film, listened to some music, played a game etc produced at least in some small part, by someone I know. The reality of those industries is that most folk are working with what they've got, rather than always rushing out to buy the new latest and greatest.

So maybe you get a machine with 'only' 8Gb RAM. Is that going to stop you being creative? The answer is no. Would a higher spec machine enable higher productivity? Maybe. Personally. the difference between 8Gb and 16Gb on my iMac would be at most a couple of minutes more in post production, if I'm doing a batch of images for someone. But mostly I'm not working professionally, so I'm not so worried. The 8Gb machine will still do the job I need it to. There's been times in the past, where I've had to quit certain apps to help speed things up a bit, but that's no big deal; better to concentrate on one thing at a time. IME, lots of RAM only really comes into play if you're dealing with several big apps at once; say editing in Lr to export to Ps for further work to then produce images for a big graphics project, or whatever. And switching back and forth between things. But irl, this seldom happens unless you are working in some intensive field with mega tight deadlines etc. The vast majority of us don't, thankfully. If you're going to have a session in Lightroom, then switch off apps you're not currently using, open up Lr and do your thing. The memory usage indicator will never go above green, trust me.

TL;DR: Don't worry about it so much. RAM is important for sure, buy as much as you can afford/think you need. But then don't stress about it; it's gonna be fine...

As for 'Kool Aid'; I live in the UK, We don't have such a thing here. I don't think we go so big on coercive cults, either. We're just too cynical for all that.

Cup of tea, anyone?

Click to expand...

Well Hal, I do production as well. I have a business where I do video and photo commercial work. I create commercials, product videos and write ups, do marketing for those businesses as well as getting setup for full studio work in our premises for podcast, video podcast etc. I work mainly on windows as it what I grew up with. We never had any apple sellers in our province until the past 5 or 6 years.

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

I have an extensive background in building, selling and "hardcore" (i hate using that word) Overclocking. I know my way around all brands, etc of computers. So, yes, the 8gb may be fine for you for your workload. However, making false claims about 8gb being the same as 16gb is where I will chime in and correct that false claim. No matter what system.

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

It's all a trade off. Do you want to save 200 bucks and go with an 8gb and have the ssd work super hard to keep up with your workload and risk that failure much quicker? Or do you put 16 or 32 gb of ram in and ensure your system will last longer and keep working when you need it. there have already been claims put through for ssds failing and "wearing out" because of memory pressure caused by the 8gb of ram in mac.

Click to expand...

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

Just to respond to that insinuation; I've been using Macs for over 30 years now; mostly with Graphic Design and Photography, with a bit of video, 3-D and animation over the years. I know a good number of people in various related industries, and in the world of Game Design. The vast majority are generally working on machines that are not brand new (because stuff actually costs money in the Real World, and 'upgrading' every 6 months is stupid and pointless), not the utmost top spec, and never really what Someone On The Internet insists they need. Yet they still get stuff done, often to a very high level. Chances are, you will have viewed a website, watched a film, listened to some music, played a game etc produced at least in some small part, by someone I know. The reality of those industries is that most folk are working with what they've got, rather than always rushing out to buy the new latest and greatest.

So maybe you get a machine with 'only' 8Gb RAM. Is that going to stop you being creative? The answer is no. Would a higher spec machine enable higher productivity? Maybe. Personally. the difference between 8Gb and 16Gb on my iMac would be at most a couple of minutes more in post production, if I'm doing a batch of images for someone. But mostly I'm not working professionally, so I'm not so worried. The 8Gb machine will still do the job I need it to. There's been times in the past, where I've had to quit certain apps to help speed things up a bit, but that's no big deal; better to concentrate on one thing at a time. IME, lots of RAM only really comes into play if you're dealing with several big apps at once; say editing in Lr to export to Ps for further work to then produce images for a big graphics project, or whatever. And switching back and forth between things. But irl, this seldom happens unless you are working in some intensive field with mega tight deadlines etc. The vast majority of us don't, thankfully. If you're going to have a session in Lightroom, then switch off apps you're not currently using, open up Lr and do your thing. The memory usage indicator will never go above green, trust me.

TL;DR: Don't worry about it so much. RAM is important for sure, buy as much as you can afford/think you need. But then don't stress about it; it's gonna be fine...

As for 'Kool Aid'; I live in the UK, We don't have such a thing here. I don't think we go so big on coercive cults, either. We're just too cynical for all that.

Cup of tea, anyone?

Click to expand...

Well Hal, I do production as well. I have a business where I do video and photo commercial work. I create commercials, product videos and write ups, do marketing for those businesses as well as getting setup for full studio work in our premises for podcast, video podcast etc. I work mainly on windows as it what I grew up with. We never had any apple sellers in our province until the past 5 or 6 years.

Click to expand...

Ok so you are aware that YOUR needs might be somewhat different to others? Did you actually read the OP?

Hal Wilson said:

I have an extensive background in building, selling and "hardcore" (i hate using that word) Overclocking. I know my way around all brands, etc of computers. So, yes, the 8gb may be fine for you for your workload. However, making false claims about 8gb being the same as 16gb is where I will chime in and correct that false claim. No matter what system.

Click to expand...

Flexing your knowledge/experience is pointless here though. It just obfuscates things needlessly.

Hal Wilson said:

It's all a trade off. Do you want to save 200 bucks and go with an 8gb and have the ssd work super hard to keep up with your workload and risk that failure much quicker? Or do you put 16 or 32 gb of ram in and ensure your system will last longer and keep working when you need it. there have already been claims put through for ssds failing and "wearing out" because of memory pressure caused by the 8gb of ram in mac.

Click to expand...

Nobody is saying to go with less RAM. Nobody. Just that 8Gb will probably be fine for what the OP has need. Waffling on about SSD failures is unhelpful, as it's not something the average user ever needs to worry about tbh. I don't. Nobody I've mentioned that I know, does either.

Keep things simple, and be mindful of the requirements as stated in the OP, is all.

Click to expand...

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

Just to respond to that insinuation; I've been using Macs for over 30 years now; mostly with Graphic Design and Photography, with a bit of video, 3-D and animation over the years. I know a good number of people in various related industries, and in the world of Game Design. The vast majority are generally working on machines that are not brand new (because stuff actually costs money in the Real World, and 'upgrading' every 6 months is stupid and pointless), not the utmost top spec, and never really what Someone On The Internet insists they need. Yet they still get stuff done, often to a very high level. Chances are, you will have viewed a website, watched a film, listened to some music, played a game etc produced at least in some small part, by someone I know. The reality of those industries is that most folk are working with what they've got, rather than always rushing out to buy the new latest and greatest.

So maybe you get a machine with 'only' 8Gb RAM. Is that going to stop you being creative? The answer is no. Would a higher spec machine enable higher productivity? Maybe. Personally. the difference between 8Gb and 16Gb on my iMac would be at most a couple of minutes more in post production, if I'm doing a batch of images for someone. But mostly I'm not working professionally, so I'm not so worried. The 8Gb machine will still do the job I need it to. There's been times in the past, where I've had to quit certain apps to help speed things up a bit, but that's no big deal; better to concentrate on one thing at a time. IME, lots of RAM only really comes into play if you're dealing with several big apps at once; say editing in Lr to export to Ps for further work to then produce images for a big graphics project, or whatever. And switching back and forth between things. But irl, this seldom happens unless you are working in some intensive field with mega tight deadlines etc. The vast majority of us don't, thankfully. If you're going to have a session in Lightroom, then switch off apps you're not currently using, open up Lr and do your thing. The memory usage indicator will never go above green, trust me.

TL;DR: Don't worry about it so much. RAM is important for sure, buy as much as you can afford/think you need. But then don't stress about it; it's gonna be fine...

As for 'Kool Aid'; I live in the UK, We don't have such a thing here. I don't think we go so big on coercive cults, either. We're just too cynical for all that.

Cup of tea, anyone?

Click to expand...

Well Hal, I do production as well. I have a business where I do video and photo commercial work. I create commercials, product videos and write ups, do marketing for those businesses as well as getting setup for full studio work in our premises for podcast, video podcast etc. I work mainly on windows as it what I grew up with. We never had any apple sellers in our province until the past 5 or 6 years.

Click to expand...

Ok so you are aware that YOUR needs might be somewhat different to others? Did you actually read the OP?

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

I have an extensive background in building, selling and "hardcore" (i hate using that word) Overclocking. I know my way around all brands, etc of computers. So, yes, the 8gb may be fine for you for your workload. However, making false claims about 8gb being the same as 16gb is where I will chime in and correct that false claim. No matter what system.

Click to expand...

Flexing your knowledge/experience is pointless here though. It just obfuscates things needlessly.

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

It's all a trade off. Do you want to save 200 bucks and go with an 8gb and have the ssd work super hard to keep up with your workload and risk that failure much quicker? Or do you put 16 or 32 gb of ram in and ensure your system will last longer and keep working when you need it. there have already been claims put through for ssds failing and "wearing out" because of memory pressure caused by the 8gb of ram in mac.

Click to expand...

Nobody is saying to go with less RAM. Nobody. Just that 8Gb will probably be fine for what the OP has need. Waffling on about SSD failures is unhelpful, as it's not something the average user ever needs to worry about tbh. I don't. Nobody I've mentioned that I know, does either.

Keep things simple, and be mindful of the requirements as stated in the OP, is all.

Click to expand...

How is telling the OP about actual ssd failures because of memory pressure not helpful. My friend you need to seriously read what you are typing. You, again, started spouting of your "expertise" with mac for the past 30 years. I was letting you know that I am well versed in systems as well. You start I respond. then you come in on your high horse claiming I am flexing some how. wow.

Click to expand...

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

The Point and Shoot Pro said:

Hal Wilson said:

Just to respond to that insinuation; I've been using Macs for over 30 years now; mostly with Graphic Design and Photography, with a bit of video, 3-D and animation over the years. I know a good number of people in various related industries, and in the world of Game Design. The vast majority are generally working on machines that are not brand new (because stuff actually costs money in the Real World, and 'upgrading' every 6 months is stupid and pointless), not the utmost top spec, and never really what Someone On The Internet insists they need. Yet they still get stuff done, often to a very high level. Chances are, you will have viewed a website, watched a film, listened to some music, played a game etc produced at least in some small part, by someone I know. The reality of those industries is that most folk are working with what they've got, rather than always rushing out to buy the new latest and greatest.

So maybe you get a machine with 'only' 8Gb RAM. Is that going to stop you being creative? The answer is no. Would a higher spec machine enable higher productivity? Maybe. Personally. the difference between 8Gb and 16Gb on my iMac would be at most a couple of minutes more in post production, if I'm doing a batch of images for someone. But mostly I'm not working professionally, so I'm not so worried. The 8Gb machine will still do the job I need it to. There's been times in the past, where I've had to quit certain apps to help speed things up a bit, but that's no big deal; better to concentrate on one thing at a time. IME, lots of RAM only really comes into play if you're dealing with several big apps at once; say editing in Lr to export to Ps for further work to then produce images for a big graphics project, or whatever. And switching back and forth between things. But irl, this seldom happens unless you are working in some intensive field with mega tight deadlines etc. The vast majority of us don't, thankfully. If you're going to have a session in Lightroom, then switch off apps you're not currently using, open up Lr and do your thing. The memory usage indicator will never go above green, trust me.

TL;DR: Don't worry about it so much. RAM is important for sure, buy as much as you can afford/think you need. But then don't stress about it; it's gonna be fine...

As for 'Kool Aid'; I live in the UK, We don't have such a thing here. I don't think we go so big on coercive cults, either. We're just too cynical for all that.

Cup of tea, anyone?

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Well Hal, I do production as well. I have a business where I do video and photo commercial work. I create commercials, product videos and write ups, do marketing for those businesses as well as getting setup for full studio work in our premises for podcast, video podcast etc. I work mainly on windows as it what I grew up with. We never had any apple sellers in our province until the past 5 or 6 years.

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Ok so you are aware that YOUR needs might be somewhat different to others? Did you actually read the OP?

Hal Wilson said:

I have an extensive background in building, selling and "hardcore" (i hate using that word) Overclocking. I know my way around all brands, etc of computers. So, yes, the 8gb may be fine for you for your workload. However, making false claims about 8gb being the same as 16gb is where I will chime in and correct that false claim. No matter what system.

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Flexing your knowledge/experience is pointless here though. It just obfuscates things needlessly.

Hal Wilson said:

It's all a trade off. Do you want to save 200 bucks and go with an 8gb and have the ssd work super hard to keep up with your workload and risk that failure much quicker? Or do you put 16 or 32 gb of ram in and ensure your system will last longer and keep working when you need it. there have already been claims put through for ssds failing and "wearing out" because of memory pressure caused by the 8gb of ram in mac.

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Nobody is saying to go with less RAM. Nobody. Just that 8Gb will probably be fine for what the OP has need. Waffling on about SSD failures is unhelpful, as it's not something the average user ever needs to worry about tbh. I don't. Nobody I've mentioned that I know, does either.

Keep things simple, and be mindful of the requirements as stated in the OP, is all.

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How is telling the OP about actual ssd failures because of memory pressure not helpful. My friend you need to seriously read what you are typing. You, again, started spouting of your "expertise" with mac for the past 30 years. I was letting you know that I am well versed in systems as well. You start I respond. then you come in on your high horse claiming I am flexing some how. wow.

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Not sure why you seem to agitated about this. It's really not a big deal..

I wasn't even aware of the 'issue' of memory pressure until I read this thread. So I googled it; doesn't seem to be a real problem for most folk. I'm no more concerned about it now than I was before. It might be of concern to you, but your needs and requirements are somewhat different to the OP's. Which are much more in line with my own tbh. Remember; this isn't about YOU. It's about someone else. To give useful advice, it's important to read/listen carefully, and consider what that person needs. The OP needs a computer that will perform the tasks they require of it. So; a Mac with say 16GB or more RAM will of course be fine. But one with 8GB will still be fine. That's all I'm saying. Some of those creative folk I know are using that and possibly less. Guess what? They're fine too.

So let's just leave it there. Peace.

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Martin Ocando said:

As others have mentioned, CPU and RAM is always more valuable than SSD, besides Apple charges a huge premium for going over 512GB. If you use external storage, you can take it with you anywhere you go, and on whichever computer you decide to use. Internal storage, will go away with your computer once you replace it.

I just got (2 weeks ago) a M4 Pro Macbook Pro with 24GB of ram and 512 SSD. Have a 2TB external SSD, but still would like to have a bit more storage for when I'm on the road and wish to backup my SSDs. So got this:

Is in no way a total replacement for internal storage. For starters is several levels of magnitude slower than internal SSD, especially if you don't use UHS-II, but I don't really care much about that. I plan to use it for backup storage for photos or maybe for taking a movie to watch on the plane, and the SD speeds are more than adequate.

I paid for both items around $60 but prices might vary. Here are the amazon links I used:

Aluminum adapter: https://amzn.to/4i6c4v2

microSD: https://amzn.to/418rYhM

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Hal Wilson said:

BTW lol @ 'agitated'! :-D

Martin Ocando said:

As others have mentioned, CPU and RAM is always more valuable than SSD, besides Apple charges a huge premium for going over 512GB. If you use external storage, you can take it with you anywhere you go, and on whichever computer you decide to use. Internal storage, will go away with your computer once you replace it.

I just got (2 weeks ago) a M4 Pro Macbook Pro with 24GB of ram and 512 SSD. Have a 2TB external SSD, but still would like to have a bit more storage for when I'm on the road and wish to backup my SSDs. So got this:

Is in no way a total replacement for internal storage. For starters is several levels of magnitude slower than internal SSD, especially if you don't use UHS-II, but I don't really care much about that. I plan to use it for backup storage for photos or maybe for taking a movie to watch on the plane, and the SD speeds are more than adequate.

I paid for both items around $60 but prices might vary. Here are the amazon links I used:

Aluminum adapter: https://amzn.to/4i6c4v2

microSD: https://amzn.to/418rYhM

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Bur why not just get a full sized SD card? Surely a bit cheaper and more reliable than those tiny 'phone sized cards?

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Hal Wilson said:

And also; It's only theMacBook Pro models that have the SD slot, no?

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Hal Wilson said:

Good idea mind. But I quite like the fact that Apple limit onboard storage and make it so expensive to 'upgrade'; seen too many people rely solely on their computer's storage for ALL their files. And seen the pain when it fails and all their files are lost forever. More and more people are now using some kind of backup, so if prohibitively expensive onboard storage has driven people to do this, then that's a good thing in my book.

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Martin Ocando said:

Hal Wilson said:

But why not just get a full sized SD card? Surely a bit cheaper and more reliable than those tiny 'phone sized cards?

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Martin Ocando said:

Because full size cards protrude like half an inch. This is completely flush and unobtrusive.

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Martin Ocando said:

I agree. But is also convenient to have extra storage that you don't think about it, as it's always there. With this you know you always have half a TB (Or whichever size microSD you decide to buy), ready to go, and then you can transfer the files to faster external SSD when you get home.

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