Why OM1 Style and not Pen F with the OM3

Capture the Moment · Feb 17, 2025

Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

Guy Parsons · Feb 17, 2025

Capture the Moment said:
Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

This little world of gear forums is completely different to the real world out there.

I would imagine that extensive research would have happened re what bodies will be accepted by most people in the markets that they intend to serve.

Old geezers with a fond yearning for their old silver SLR film days seems to dominate the target audience. They probably are most likely to have the needed $$$ to make a line successful.

Admittedly I am an old geezer but am not interested in the fascination with retro designs, pretty though they may be.

gary0319 · Feb 17, 2025

Guy Parsons said:
Capture the Moment said:

Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

Click to expand...

This little world of gear forums is completely different to the real world out there.

I would imagine that extensive research would have happened re what bodies will be accepted by most people in the markets that they intend to serve.

Old geezers with a fond yearning for their old silver SLR film days seems to dominate the target audience. They probably are most likely to have the needed $$$ to make a line successful.

Admittedly I am an old geezer but am not interested in the fascination with retro designs, pretty though they may be.

I would submit that these days anything that looks like an all black DSLR-type camera gets the moniker "Geezer Cam".

cba_melbourne · Feb 17, 2025

tomrandall86 said:
Photongraphy said:

tomrandall86 said:

tomrandall86 said:

tomrandall86 said:

2) It’s a jpeg focussed camera, so not that exciting to RAW shooters who want to maximise the IQ of their final images.

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I agree with most, but the 'jpg extra's' doesn't make it less capable shooting RAW.

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Indeed I might buy it eventually. I just meant that all the jpeg capabilities have limited value to a RAW shooter.

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I understand. Maybe it's strength, being very capable on many territories, is also it's weakness; jack of all trades, master of none. There are potential users that will never use the jpeg capabilies, others will never need high fps, etc... so not many potential buyers will recognise it as the camera that was made for their specific usecase, although it probably does answer their needs.

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For shooting RAW, there could be an advantage to workflow when utilising all of those new colour tools in camera in combination with OM Workspace, but I'd really like to try it out and see how it behaves. If you've set all of your parameters in camera but opted to shoot raw, those parameters should fire across to OM Workspace - at least right now it does if you're making use of the curves tool, colour creator, gradation settings, profile etc. If the colour wheel in the OM-3 also gets sent with the RAW file and read by OM Workspace you'd get the best of both worlds.

In essence, maximise image quality with RAW, but with a faster workflow.

With that said, OM Workspace although preserves the OM jpeg look and rendering, isn't the most powerful image processing tool out there if compared to a paid commercial product like Adobe.

Certainly interested in playing with that side of it though.

The Pen-F had access to some extra features in the PC software provided related to the color wheel, that were only activated if a picture made by a Pen-F was edited. Only 5 years later around 2021, they made those features available to files created by other camera models too.

Remains to be seen, if they try to do the same with the OM3. Having maybe some new features, or some exclusive film emulations, that would be only accessible for OM3 files. That could serve as an incentive to buy an OM3.

James Stirling · Feb 17, 2025

Jaime100 said:
James Stirling said:

Jaime100 said:

James Stirling said:

UrbaneHobbit said:

As I do not use straps to carry my cameras, I am swayed by pocket ergonomics.

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You will need quite a large pocket if the OM-3 is under consideration My wife has an RX100 V which is genuinely pocketable and even with a small prime the OM-3 will need big pockets

If I did not favour straps , I would certainly favour grips

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I don't want a Point and Shoot.... While they are nice to have like my Ricoh, they are just fun little cameras to carry around. I like the size but sometimes want a camera that has substance

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I was replying to UrbaneHobbit pointing out that if you are looking for pocket sized gear the OM-3 is not it

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Oh yes James...for sure. Pocket size the OM3 or any other OM is not!... I have never tried any Sony..... but a pocket size Ricoh or Sony is good to have in your camera arsenal.

My wife has the RX100 V and it is amazing the feature set they have squeezed in, for my larger clumsy hands it is not fun to use, the AG-R2 grip does help a bit. Unless size is the absolute top priority I would chose an ILC every time . Other than "vlogging" centric models Sony seems to have given up on the RX100 with a number of cameras well over due an upgrade

--
Jim Stirling:
"Cogito, ergo sum" Descartes
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

ahaslett · Feb 17, 2025

Guy Parsons said:
Capture the Moment said:

Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

Click to expand...

This little world of gear forums is completely different to the real world out there.

I would imagine that extensive research would have happened re what bodies will be accepted by most people in the markets that they intend to serve.

Old geezers with a fond yearning for their old silver SLR film days seems to dominate the target audience. They probably are most likely to have the needed $$$ to make a line successful.

Admittedly I am an old geezer but am not interested in the fascination with retro designs, pretty though they may be.

Having spoken to a 25y old who couldn’t stop talking about his collection of film cameras and lenses, I’m guessing there is another market especially in Japan. If the highest price is in the market dominated by old geezers and lowest in young fashionistas, then North America is the old geezer market, followed by Oz, then Europe and the most attractive Japan. North America is so unattractive they don’t bother to sell the EP7 there. In Japan it has measurable ILC market share.

What people on these forums think is irrelevant to the success of the OM3, although all sales at launch price are welcome.

A

cba_melbourne · Feb 17, 2025

oneofone25 said:
I’m convinced that OM knew that probably 50% of those who post their desire for a PenF weekly somewhere online are also those who have voiced that they have left OM Systems unless they provide a PenF II. I also am convinced that if that new PenF did not have all the technology that OM offers I. The new OM 1 Mark 2 that most would not purchase. Many would not purchase if it wasn’t weather proof. Many would not purchase if it didn’t have the new 26MP sensor in Panasonic. Many would not purchase if it didn’t have global shutter. Many would not purchase because of FILL IN THE BLANK.

yes, the Pen F was an incredible camera, but it wasn’t successful enough to do a new one and try to fill the demands of those who mostly left Olympus behind. I say reward your current base and try to bring on new users with a retro camera that they’ve been waiting for. I think many who have hesitated to even get into the digital camera market may grab this new OM-3 because it reminds them of the 70s and 80s when they had their OM-1 or OM-2n. I think it was a smart move and we will know whether it was for sure within 6 months. I think they priced it high enough to get a nice profit on pre-sales and also high enough to be able to discount and still make a buck down the road.

they would not have come out with this camera if the company was failing and not doing well financially.

That is of course one possibility.

The other being that exactly because of financial constraints, the new camera is as expensive and big as it is. Had they had the R&D funds to redesign its innards instead of using what the OM1 had, they could have used a much cheaper non-BSI sensor that would also suit this type of camera better, lower the cost to maybe $1,500 launch price, and make it smaller or at least less wide, and put more care into the design of it's retro features.

The Pen-F did IMO not fail commercially because not enough were sold. It sold well, and better than for example both the EM5.3 and OM5 combined. It failed commercially because it was too expensive to make, and thus the profit margin was too small. This is I think also the reason they could never discount its price by more than 10-20% until end of line, unlike other cameras that were flogged off for half price.

James Stirling · Feb 17, 2025

cba_melbourne said:
oneofone25 said:

I’m convinced that OM knew that probably 50% of those who post their desire for a PenF weekly somewhere online are also those who have voiced that they have left OM Systems unless they provide a PenF II. I also am convinced that if that new PenF did not have all the technology that OM offers I. The new OM 1 Mark 2 that most would not purchase. Many would not purchase if it wasn’t weather proof. Many would not purchase if it didn’t have the new 26MP sensor in Panasonic. Many would not purchase if it didn’t have global shutter. Many would not purchase because of FILL IN THE BLANK.

yes, the Pen F was an incredible camera, but it wasn’t successful enough to do a new one and try to fill the demands of those who mostly left Olympus behind. I say reward your current base and try to bring on new users with a retro camera that they’ve been waiting for. I think many who have hesitated to even get into the digital camera market may grab this new OM-3 because it reminds them of the 70s and 80s when they had their OM-1 or OM-2n. I think it was a smart move and we will know whether it was for sure within 6 months. I think they priced it high enough to get a nice profit on pre-sales and also high enough to be able to discount and still make a buck down the road.

they would not have come out with this camera if the company was failing and not doing well financially.

Click to expand...

That is of course one possibility.

The other being that exactly because of financial constraints, the new camera is as expensive and big as it is. Had they had the R&D funds to redesign its innards instead of using what the OM1 had, they could have used a much cheaper non-BSI sensor that would also suit this type of camera better, lower the cost to maybe $1,500 launch price, and make it smaller or at least less wide, and put more care into the design of it's retro features.

The Pen-F did IMO not fail commercially because not enough were sold. It sold well, and better than for example both the EM5.3 and OM5 combined.

Do you have any actual substantive evidence to support that claim ? Given Olympus themselves damned its sales numbers with faint praise

cba_melbourne said:
It failed commercially because it was too expensive to make, and thus the profit margin was too small. This is I think also the reason they could never discount its price by more than 10-20% until end of line, unlike other cameras that were flogged off for half price.

cba_melbourne · Feb 17, 2025

Cafe Racer said:
duncAnd said:

Cafe Racer said:

duncAnd said:

I've handled the OM-3 in the flesh and the viewfinder was not something I would have remarked on. It's perfectly good and I didn't for one second think it was in any way not good enough.

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There's a difference between not good enough and not competitive. OMDS could have used a 20mp sensor in the OM-3 like the one found in the entry level E-M10iv; it's good enough right?

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I believe the focus on specific spec items is a massive diversion.

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What does that mean?

Cafe Racer said:

I've handled an OM-3 and viewfinder resolution was just not something that even occurred to me

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Do you think people that do research to decide on a camera to purchase will take notice of specifications and use that information to help to narrow down their choices in order to come to a decision?

With "nornal" cameras yes, you are right. People will read and compare specifications for weeks before deciding.

With retro cameras, I think these may be more often than not, bought on an impulse. Like it, want it, buy it. That is certainly not how people on a tech forum buy cameras. But how people with some spare cash, that casually walk into a camera store, and see something they like, act.

Cafe Racer said:
Cafe Racer said:

- and I currently shoot with an OM-1ii. I expected to think it was a downgrade, but I didn't.

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell · Feb 17, 2025

Easy the OM-3 is simpler and cheaper to build than the Pen-F. The Pen-F on latest build cost and expected low volume sales would be a really premium purchase. Screams of "too much' would hold back sales until it was severely discounted in special promotions.

Customers who waited would be happy OMS bean counters less so.

Fact of commercial life overcomes perfection and lack of wily customer buying practices. We tend to get what the manufacturer thinks that we will pay for and can still keep up the bottom line and continue to make the gear that we love (and often criticise quite strongly).

--
Tom Caldwell

Promeneur · Feb 17, 2025

Capture the Moment said:
Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

Here is an interview in Japanese with two people from OM Digital Solutions. You can scroll down and scroll through the Comments section and with Google translate read the comments in English to get an idea of how the OM-3 is being received.

OM-3登場！企画キーパーソンを直撃インタビュー(OMデジタルソリューションズ) - YouTube

Yodobashi Camera had an event at the Akihabara store on February 15th, that I attended. An OM System rep gave three separate presentations on the OM-3 during the afternoon. The camera department was very busy with almost all of the activity around around the presentation and within the OM System aisle.

I counted around 45 people watching the first presention and it was hard to navigate the aisle and pick up and look at the OM System cameras. The E-P7 was getting a lot of attention as it is very popular here. A Yodobashi salesman was talking to three teenagers interested in the E-P7.

I was lucky to have time with the OM-3 when I arrived, but after a while when I picked it up there was always someone waiting for a turn with it.

Didn't look like an opportunity lost to me.

cba_melbourne · Feb 17, 2025

James Stirling said:
cba_melbourne said:

oneofone25 said:

I’m convinced that OM knew that probably 50% of those who post their desire for a PenF weekly somewhere online are also those who have voiced that they have left OM Systems unless they provide a PenF II. I also am convinced that if that new PenF did not have all the technology that OM offers I. The new OM 1 Mark 2 that most would not purchase. Many would not purchase if it wasn’t weather proof. Many would not purchase if it didn’t have the new 26MP sensor in Panasonic. Many would not purchase if it didn’t have global shutter. Many would not purchase because of FILL IN THE BLANK.

yes, the Pen F was an incredible camera, but it wasn’t successful enough to do a new one and try to fill the demands of those who mostly left Olympus behind. I say reward your current base and try to bring on new users with a retro camera that they’ve been waiting for. I think many who have hesitated to even get into the digital camera market may grab this new OM-3 because it reminds them of the 70s and 80s when they had their OM-1 or OM-2n. I think it was a smart move and we will know whether it was for sure within 6 months. I think they priced it high enough to get a nice profit on pre-sales and also high enough to be able to discount and still make a buck down the road.

they would not have come out with this camera if the company was failing and not doing well financially.

Click to expand...

That is of course one possibility.

The other being that exactly because of financial constraints, the new camera is as expensive and big as it is. Had they had the R&D funds to redesign its innards instead of using what the OM1 had, they could have used a much cheaper non-BSI sensor that would also suit this type of camera better, lower the cost to maybe $1,500 launch price, and make it smaller or at least less wide, and put more care into the design of it's retro features.

The Pen-F did IMO not fail commercially because not enough were sold. It sold well, and better than for example both the EM5.3 and OM5 combined.

Click to expand...

Do you have any actual substantive evidence to support that claim ? Given Olympus themselves damned its sales numbers with faint praise

Do you have any evidence of Olympus themselves damning it's sale numbers?

All I have ever seen, is the Olympus CEO saying "it did not meet our expectations". No mention of sales numbers. I interpret this as "it made no profit for us".

I have two evidences for this:

- the Pen-F was never discounted more than 10%, except briefly 5 years after it's release:

That is what you do for a product that 1) still sells reasonably well after 4 years near it's RRP, and/or 2) has too low a profit margin for you to discount it without loosing too much money (eg you can't make a second batch to be sold at 30 or 40% less, as is done to make a profit with an obsolete model by selling in quantity, with the reasoning the first batch sold at RRP pays for the R&D and the next batch costs only half as much to make).

- And then we have the number of people on this forum, 549 that say they own the Pen-F. And it is higher then those that say I own em5.3 plus OM5 combined, 461 people.

This forum is not representative you may say. And it isn't. But if the Pen-F was a flop by units sold, not so many here would own it. Consider tech forum people usually buy tech not expensive retro.

James Stirling said:
James Stirling said:

It failed commercially because it was too expensive to make, and thus the profit margin was too small. This is I think also the reason they could never discount its price by more than 10-20% until end of line, unlike other cameras that were flogged off for half price.

Click to expand...

Bobapingu · Feb 17, 2025

Cafe Racer said:
MDS could have used a 20mp sensor in the OM-3 like the one found in the entry level E-M10iv; it's good enough right?

Apologies if you are being cynical, I'm not sure. You're comparing a standard 20MP sensor to a BSI Stacked 20MP sensor. It's chalk and cheese, particularly at higher ISO. There's a good reason why BSI Stacked sensors are more expensive.

gary0319 · Feb 17, 2025

Tom Caldwell said:
Easy the OM-3 is simpler and cheaper to build than the Pen-F. The Pen-F on latest build cost and expected low volume sales would be a really premium purchase. Screams of "too much' would hold back sales until it was severely discounted in special promotions.

Customers who waited would be happy OMS bean counters less so.

Fact of commercial life overcomes perfection and lack of wily customer buying practices. We tend to get what the manufacturer thinks that we will pay for and can still keep up the bottom line and continue to make the gear that we love (and often criticise quite strongly).

I think maybe the Pen F legend has been elevated past the point of reasonableness.

My opinion of my long-departed Pen F is similar to that of a girlfriend I had once. "Beautiful to look at" but not the brightest. I'm glad both are in my past. I wonder how many people that had Pen F cameras and sold them, would buy a Pen F II. I would consider it, but I have kind of moved on.

cba_melbourne · Feb 17, 2025

gary0319 said:
Tom Caldwell said:

Easy the OM-3 is simpler and cheaper to build than the Pen-F. The Pen-F on latest build cost and expected low volume sales would be a really premium purchase. Screams of "too much' would hold back sales until it was severely discounted in special promotions.

Customers who waited would be happy OMS bean counters less so.

Fact of commercial life overcomes perfection and lack of wily customer buying practices. We tend to get what the manufacturer thinks that we will pay for and can still keep up the bottom line and continue to make the gear that we love (and often criticise quite strongly).

Click to expand...

I think maybe the Pen F legend has been elevated past the point of reasonableness.

My opinion of my long-departed Pen F is similar to that of a girlfriend I had once. "Beautiful to look at" but not the brightest. I'm glad both are in my past. I wonder how many people that had Pen F cameras and sold them, would buy a Pen F II. I would consider it, but I have kind of moved on.

We know that, at least from members in this forum:

549 say I own it

153 say I had it

277 say I want it

You should have kept yours, it would be worth more today. Because people still want it very much. Look at prices on eBay.

gary0319 · Feb 17, 2025

cba_melbourne said:
gary0319 said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Easy the OM-3 is simpler and cheaper to build than the Pen-F. The Pen-F on latest build cost and expected low volume sales would be a really premium purchase. Screams of "too much' would hold back sales until it was severely discounted in special promotions.

Customers who waited would be happy OMS bean counters less so.

Fact of commercial life overcomes perfection and lack of wily customer buying practices. We tend to get what the manufacturer thinks that we will pay for and can still keep up the bottom line and continue to make the gear that we love (and often criticise quite strongly).

Click to expand...

I think maybe the Pen F legend has been elevated past the point of reasonableness.

My opinion of my long-departed Pen F is similar to that of a girlfriend I had once. "Beautiful to look at" but not the brightest. I'm glad both are in my past. I wonder how many people that had Pen F cameras and sold them, would buy a Pen F II. I would consider it, but I have kind of moved on.

Click to expand...

We know that, at least from members in this forum:

549 say I own it

153 say I had it

277 say I want it

You should have kept yours, it would be worth more today. Because people still want it very much. Look at prices on eBay.

Once I got my OM-5 the Pen F was gathering dust on the shelf and needed to find a new home. The beauty was only skin deep as it turned out. I did get a good price for it even from MPB.

Bobapingu · Feb 17, 2025

gary0319 said:
cba_melbourne said:

gary0319 said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Easy the OM-3 is simpler and cheaper to build than the Pen-F. The Pen-F on latest build cost and expected low volume sales would be a really premium purchase. Screams of "too much' would hold back sales until it was severely discounted in special promotions.

Customers who waited would be happy OMS bean counters less so.

Fact of commercial life overcomes perfection and lack of wily customer buying practices. We tend to get what the manufacturer thinks that we will pay for and can still keep up the bottom line and continue to make the gear that we love (and often criticise quite strongly).

Click to expand...

I think maybe the Pen F legend has been elevated past the point of reasonableness.

My opinion of my long-departed Pen F is similar to that of a girlfriend I had once. "Beautiful to look at" but not the brightest. I'm glad both are in my past. I wonder how many people that had Pen F cameras and sold them, would buy a Pen F II. I would consider it, but I have kind of moved on.

Click to expand...

We know that, at least from members in this forum:

549 say I own it

153 say I had it

277 say I want it

You should have kept yours, it would be worth more today. Because people still want it very much. Look at prices on eBay.

Click to expand...

Once I got my OM-5 the Pen F was gathering dust on the shelf and needed to find a new home. The beauty was only skin deep as it turned out. I did get a good price for it even from MPB.

While we have the flag ship, there is also the cult camera, currently the Pen F. I'm hoping the OM-3 will take over the reins on that, but then predictions are not my strong point. Anyway, I think OMDS have shown their colours now. There is no future in pedestrian cameras for a niche producer. It'll be curious to see how much more they can squeeze out of the E-M10s.

Jaime100 · Feb 17, 2025

Capture the Moment said:
Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

No they haven't....only the Pen F'ers 'for life' ...the rest of us have spoken by enjoying the old OM1 Film camera style. You must continually be in left field to think otherwise. OM did their research and a huge part of it was:

The Pen F rangefinder style didn't sell when it came out, so why take the chance on it now just to satisfy a few life long Pen Fer's'

Fuji has already done the rangefinder thing with the X100 series. So why would OM go in that direction given a somewhat small demand/market? Why not continue to go down the road of what is 'working for them' which is.........the OM1 Film style camera.

Face it man....the rangefinder Pen F. is dead unless you want to go to the EP models.

Jaime100 · Feb 17, 2025

Guy Parsons said:
Old geezers with a fond yearning for their old silver SLR film days seems to dominate the target audience. They probably are most likely to have the needed $$$ to make a line successful.

Spot on Dude...far out. !

Jaime100 · Feb 17, 2025

Promeneur said:
Capture the Moment said:

Quite simply OMSystems didn't do their Market research. All over the MFT related social media and discussion forums users have been crying out for a PEN-F.

They lost a great opportunity.

Click to expand...

Here is an interview in Japanese with two people from OM Digital Solutions. You can scroll down and scroll through the Comments section and with Google translate read the comments in English to get an idea of how the OM-3 is being received.

OM-3登場！企画キーパーソンを直撃インタビュー(OMデジタルソリューションズ) - YouTube

Yodobashi Camera had an event at the Akihabara store on February 15th, that I attended. An OM System rep gave three separate presentations on the OM-3 during the afternoon. The camera department was very busy with almost all of the activity around around the presentation and within the OM System aisle.

I counted around 45 people watching the first presention and it was hard to navigate the aisle and pick up and look at the OM System cameras. The E-P7 was getting a lot of attention as it is very popular here. A Yodobashi salesman was talking to three teenagers interested in the E-P7.

I was lucky to have time with the OM-3 when I arrived, but after a while when I picked it up there was always someone waiting for a turn with it.

Didn't look like an opportunity lost to me.

I have heard the EP7 is hugely popular in Japan..... and not in the states or barely in Europe...right? OM has done their market and for now, that style of camera and that model (EP&) belongs in Japan.

Why OM1 Style and not Pen F with the OM3

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