Why OM1 Style and not Pen F with the OM3

> I'm sure most people don't share my expensive taste in coffee.

Probably a few of us do. Do you photograph the process of making it?

Mark
 
The Pen-F film camera was a cult classic as I understand it, but its primary design value was portability. This form factor goal would have required much more engineering to achieve, going from OM-1 II internals, never mind the battery capacity challenge. With the digital Pen-F setting a very high bar for build, and also generally regarded to have experienced disappointing sales, I imagine OMDS decided to save this more ambitious project for down the line, perhaps funded from profits from products like the OM-3.
E-P# series was getting hammered by EM-5 and EM-1, with similar premium pricing and full feature sets, including [cough] finders, which Panny also provided on their GXs.

They had to completely redesign it and that became the Pen F, a kind of moonshot for them relaunching the premium rangefinderish range. Unique to it for awhile was the 20MP sensor plus the the creative dial.

It's a neat camera that did not sell in huge numbers and their reticence over a 9th anniversary revisit is completely understandable.

The new camera will do just fine. There will be no son of Pen F.

Rick
I think you are right. Those pining for the second coming of the Pen F will still be lamenting the fact at its 20th anniversary. I find it kind of ironic that there are similar dismissive posts about the OM-3 that were posted upon the announcement of the Pen F.

I am glad to see that the hew and cry over the EVF, which in my mind was nonsense since not one of these dismissive posters had even seen an OM-3 in the flesh, let alone looked through the EVF,
Dpreview on the OM-3:

The X-T5 also has a substantially nicer viewfinder.

Bear in mind that the XT-5 is one of the OM-3's closest competitors.

Cons: Small, low-res EVF.

Nonsense? I guess Dpreview weren't being dismissive as they've actually seen the OM-3 in the flesh.
has been replaced by an equally nonsensical discussion of screws to hold the body together. Maybe we can soon move onto a more pressing debate about which color strap is more authentically retro.
[Therapist] Why don't you show me on the doll where OM-3 touched you?
Have we forgotten Rule #1?

Some people just like build quality way beyond what most people want to pay for - see Pen F for details. Nothing wrong with that unless they think the rest of us must share that need.

I'm sure most people don't share my expensive taste in coffee.

A
Somebody who has not bothered to handle the camera is unqualified to opine on its build quality. Peer at specs and pictures all you want, they do not tell the story.

That it factually is the Pen F replacement in the lineup is not a discussion point. Whither Pens? remains an open question for those markets they are still sold.
I like the build quality of the OM5. It is very light, looks good in black, and I have no need to use the tripod socket.

I'm sure the build quality of the OM3 is fine, better than fine. All I care about is ergonomics and AF performance. I can see the extended width might be a good swap with the small OM5 grip.

I'm just not sure it can replace my OM5...

A
 
With the advent of the OM3, which obviously has taken it's visual appeal to match the original appeal of the OM1 film camera of the 1970's.... it would be interesting to wonder why OM Systems took the OM1 film style instead of the Pen F (either the modern 2016 version or the 1960's version) to base the OM3 on.

If I was OM Systems and needing to make a big hit..... they had to do some pretty serious marketing pre-strategy prior to R&D of the camera. That strategy spoke to the OM1 film style which is retro and yes, has the retro hump.

Is the hump the only reason why the Pen Fer's are so against the OM3? For the creative dial, the inners etc...while some might complain could have been more, it is a huge update over the Pen F. The existing camera also leaves room for growth.

So back to why the OM1 film and not the Pen F Format. Perhaps because the Pen F is a rangefinder looking camera and because of the success that Fuji X100 has had, OM Systems thought they needed to deviate from that rangefinder style and hit upon the old SLR OM1 film style. The 'retro' market is only so large.

Remember....small market companies here, both are. So could both really compete with rangefinder bodies? Luckily OM Systems had two great bodies to choose from and both had nice pedigrees with that retro look. OM Systems opted for the biggest bang for their new camera, thus not competing directly with the X100. And, OM Systems already had maintained much the body style of the OM1 Film with their E5 Series, the E10 series, the OM5 and OM1's.... Why change what is working.

Thoughts?
I think it depends in general of OM-1 internals size. One things is to take sensor/plate (motherboard?) etc and put in different body, connect viewfinder, display, dials etc. Other thing is to try to squeeze it to lot smaller size.

Also dont forget Zf.

Imho they did mix match from OM-1 and OM-5 (Eypiece? Dials? Button in middle of dial? Card slot cover?)

IMHO taking into account all the pro telezooms above 1kg weight will be quite uncomfortable comparing to OM-1. (In some videos its quite obvious that the camera is quite heavy for some woman to hold in one hand) I think the OM-3 sensor is quite overkill. I mean Ok. You have the readout speed ... So what? You have one memory card slot. You can not put long telelense where it would realy matter. Imho from looks its looks like prime lense camera and everything heavier than 0.5kg in front of that body will be very tricky to hold.

Litlle bit of conspiracy theory

Maybe the secret is that there are no more previous generation sensors? Like in OM-5, E-P7 and E-M10IV? Maybe OM have no choice but put OM-1 sensor/board in what they can? Maybe they put out this camera to win time to make board smaller like for OM-5 MKii/E-P8 (or maybe they will make something like OM-3 but in plastic and call it OM-5 MKii?)
Did people use long tele lenses with the OM film cameras? If they did, presumably by using a tripod or the two-handed grip we used with film cameras. Easier with a modern style beef grip though.

I remember using a 500m photax preset lens with my Zenith E when I was 16 or 17...

On the other hand, I've had a X-E1 and a X-T100 gripless cameras. Pretty to look at but I didn't get on with holding them, even with a tiny kit zoom and half cases for extra support. I'm fine with my GX7 because the little rubber bump is well shaped and offers reasonable grip. I suspect if I had an OM1 it would live on a shelf...
Yes, when i was young i was also not very smart. But i doubt thats a thing to be proud of nowadays.

If you didn't notice then most modern cameras who claim to be profesional (or close to that) have grip, even sony brick abominations have some type of grip and all retro incarnations have no grip or very small grip (let be honest Zf is not profesional camera)

Existing or not existing of grip dont make camera profesional, it makes it "comfortable" to hold it longer then taking one occasional picture every 10minutes.

But again some people think that sleeping on wooden planks are comfortable. For them maybe, for me not so much. If you like to hold 0.5 kg brick with 2kg lense so be it. Ou.... But why the 100-400 mkI have removable foot and replaceable with something like "ring" so the bolts would not dig in hands. .... Strange, strange if only tripod should be used.
I don’t own a single lens that weighs 2 kg. Problem solved :).
 
They tested different concepts with the target Japanese consumers and chose the one they thought would regain their home market share.

They tested maybe a couple in other markets and priced in each regional market to match consumer expectations of the cost of an affordable luxury or fashion camera.

They hope that existing OM owners, who are not their target market, would still find the camera attractive enough.

The market has spoken.

Andrew
The Market spoke for sure. But I am not sure that existing OM users are not part of that target audience. Why not? Smaller, more retro...an upgrade over the E series etc... And yes, the Japanese market and hoping to regain their share. I wonder how far down in their share in that market they went? Olympus name though is huge in Japan
Sure existing users are a part of the target but not the focus.

OM lost a lot of market share in Japan with the transition away from Olympus. The figures have been posted here more than once.

If you look at existing Olympus/OM owners:

1) This isn’t a Pen F, so the admittedly small number of Pen F enthusiasts aren’t going for it.

2) It’s a jpeg focussed camera, so not that exciting to RAW shooters who want to maximise the IQ of their final images.

3) It’s a lot heavier than an OM5 and (apart from the jpeg functions) is like a gripless OM1.

OK, in some parts of the world, it’s a cheaper OM1 mk ii, and it provides subject detection in a smaller body than any other MFT body.

Finally, it’s a fun camera that’s smallish, powerful and weatherproof with a selection of matching primes and zooms, and five different strap colours.

That last part can attract existing and new owners both, and existing owners waiting to upgrade an EM5 mk ii will have lenses as well. In fact EM5 mk ii owners who take an increase in weight in return for more battery life and a big jump in functionality are the most obvious existing owner target. They can already own an OM1, especially if it’s a mk i not mk ii.

I have an OM5 and OM1 mk i. Is it an upgrade to my OM5, an OM1 mk ii without a grip, a similar size to my A7CR that can use MFT lenses?

Andrew
Are you sure on the weight? I have the OM5 and the OM3 being equal in weight....

I agree that the EM5 users....mark 11 or 111 will find this to be an upgrade. So, that begs...is the EM5 the camera that the OM3 is replacing?
The OM5 is 414g with battery and card, the OM3 is 492g, the OM1 is 599g. A Sigma fp L is 375g, an EP7 is 337g, a G100D is 413g, a G97 is 530g and an A7CR is 515g. A Leica M11P is 530g.

That 78g difference between the OM5 and OM3 matters to me.

The OM3 isn’t replacing any existing or previous MFT body, that’s my point. It’s a modern embodiment of an OM1 35mm film camera. I inherited my Dad’s OM1 and a handful of Zuiko lenses. I’ve met young assistants in local camera shops who want to tell me about the 5 film camera bodies they own. The target market are people who pay attention to influencers, not people who own an MFT camera.

I guess it depends why EM5 mk iii owners bought one. The OM5 might be a more obvious upgrade, or an A7Cii. It all depends on what “upgrade” means to each person.

Andrew
 
Why the OM1 style? Because the PEN-F style failed for them. I'm all for an amazing range finder camera (even if I'm left eye dominant), but I think for majority of people they like the look of an SLR style.

Let's not also forget the this has the same internals of the OM1 so it's probably easier from a design perspective to fit into that style. Making a PEN-F ii of the same camera would require a complete redesign to fit those same internals in a completely different spot. I'd wager a PEN Fii of the OM-3 would be even taller cause of the EVF placement.
 
I like the build quality of the OM5. It is very light, looks good in black, and I have no need to use the tripod socket.

I'm sure the build quality of the OM3 is fine, better than fine. All I care about is ergonomics and AF performance. I can see the extended width might be a good swap with the small OM5 grip.

I'm just not sure it can replace my OM5...

A
If it has a shortcoming it would be portrait orientation with a big lens, e.g., a 300/4. Lack of a grip would show itself, something the aftermarket might address but still early days. The wideish body is welcome for the larger lenses I tried and did not find the plain contours an issue, in part due to the prominent thumbrest. Skin is grippy and everything falls to hand nicely.

Performancewise, a distinct step forward from the last PDAF 20MP sensor generation and TruePic VIII/IX. A different shooting experience entirely.

Rick
 
  1. unhappymeal wrote:
They tested different concepts with the target Japanese consumers and chose the one they thought would regain their home market share.

They tested maybe a couple in other markets and priced in each regional market to match consumer expectations of the cost of an affordable luxury or fashion camera.

They hope that existing OM owners, who are not their target market, would still find the camera attractive enough.

The market has spoken.

Andrew
The Market spoke for sure. But I am not sure that existing OM users are not part of that target audience. Why not? Smaller, more retro...an upgrade over the E series etc... And yes, the Japanese market and hoping to regain their share. I wonder how far down in their share in that market they went? Olympus name though is huge in Japan
Sure existing users are a part of the target but not the focus.

OM lost a lot of market share in Japan with the transition away from Olympus. The figures have been posted here more than once.

If you look at existing Olympus/OM owners:

1) This isn’t a Pen F, so the admittedly small number of Pen F enthusiasts aren’t going for it.

2) It’s a jpeg focussed camera, so not that exciting to RAW shooters who want to maximise the IQ of their final images.

3) It’s a lot heavier than an OM5 and (apart from the jpeg functions) is like a gripless OM1.

OK, in some parts of the world, it’s a cheaper OM1 mk ii, and it provides subject detection in a smaller body than any other MFT body.

Finally, it’s a fun camera that’s smallish, powerful and weatherproof with a selection of matching primes and zooms, and five different strap colours.

That last part can attract existing and new owners both, and existing owners waiting to upgrade an EM5 mk ii will have lenses as well. In fact EM5 mk ii owners who take an increase in weight in return for more battery life and a big jump in functionality are the most obvious existing owner target. They can already own an OM1, especially if it’s a mk i not mk ii.

I have an OM5 and OM1 mk i. Is it an upgrade to my OM5, an OM1 mk ii without a grip, a similar size to my A7CR that can use MFT lenses?

Andrew
Are you sure on the weight? I have the OM5 and the OM3 being equal in weight....

I agree that the EM5 users....mark 11 or 111 will find this to be an upgrade. So, that begs...is the EM5 the camera that the OM3 is replacing?
The OM5 is 414g with battery and card, the OM3 is 492g, the OM1 is 599g. A Sigma fp L is 375g, an EP7 is 337g, a G100D is 413g, a G97 is 530g and an A7CR is 515g. A Leica M11P is 530g.

That 78g difference between the OM5 and OM3 matters to me.

The OM3 isn’t replacing any existing or previous MFT body, that’s my point. It’s a modern embodiment of an OM1 35mm film camera. I inherited my Dad’s OM1 and a handful of Zuiko lenses. I’ve met young assistants in local camera shops who want to tell me about the 5 film camera bodies they own. The target market are people who pay attention to influencers, not people who own an MFT camera.

I guess it depends why EM5 mk iii owners bought one. The OM5 might be a more obvious upgrade, or an A7Cii. It all depends on what “upgrade” means to each person.

Andrew
A PDAF E-P7 with an EVF accessory would be so hot I would buy three.
For the moment, a GM1 works for me.

I have been tempted by the EP7 offers. A white one bundled with a prime and PDAF would be even more tempting.

You can get an EVF11 to go with the fp. It looks like a pretty interesting bit of kit.

A
 
I like the build quality of the OM5. It is very light, looks good in black, and I have no need to use the tripod socket.

I'm sure the build quality of the OM3 is fine, better than fine. All I care about is ergonomics and AF performance. I can see the extended width might be a good swap with the small OM5 grip.

I'm just not sure it can replace my OM5...

A
If it has a shortcoming it would be portrait orientation with a big lens, e.g., a 300/4. Lack of a grip would show itself, something the aftermarket might address but still early days. The wideish body is welcome for the larger lenses I tried and did not find the plain contours an issue, in part due to the prominent thumbrest. Skin is grippy and everything falls to hand nicely.

Performancewise, a distinct step forward from the last PDAF 20MP sensor generation and TruePic VIII/IX. A different shooting experience entirely.

Rick
For me, it falls between the OM5, A7CR and OM1. There's time...

A
 
I like the build quality of the OM5. It is very light, looks good in black, and I have no need to use the tripod socket.

I'm sure the build quality of the OM3 is fine, better than fine. All I care about is ergonomics and AF performance. I can see the extended width might be a good swap with the small OM5 grip.

I'm just not sure it can replace my OM5...

A
If it has a shortcoming it would be portrait orientation with a big lens, e.g., a 300/4. Lack of a grip would show itself, something the aftermarket might address but still early days. The wideish body is welcome for the larger lenses I tried and did not find the plain contours an issue, in part due to the prominent thumbrest. Skin is grippy and everything falls to hand nicely.

Performancewise, a distinct step forward from the last PDAF 20MP sensor generation and TruePic VIII/IX. A different shooting experience entirely.

Rick
I can imagine the different shooting experience. I never take my OM5 to go birding, the OM-1 was designed for that and it fits. By the same token, my OM-1 II just feels way to “industrial strength” for candids on the street, or an informal garden party.
 
The Pen-F film camera was a cult classic as I understand it, but its primary design value was portability. This form factor goal would have required much more engineering to achieve, going from OM-1 II internals, never mind the battery capacity challenge. With the digital Pen-F setting a very high bar for build, and also generally regarded to have experienced disappointing sales, I imagine OMDS decided to save this more ambitious project for down the line, perhaps funded from profits from products like the OM-3.
E-P# series was getting hammered by EM-5 and EM-1, with similar premium pricing and full feature sets, including [cough] finders, which Panny also provided on their GXs.

They had to completely redesign it and that became the Pen F, a kind of moonshot for them relaunching the premium rangefinderish range. Unique to it for awhile was the 20MP sensor plus the the creative dial.

It's a neat camera that did not sell in huge numbers and their reticence over a 9th anniversary revisit is completely understandable.

The new camera will do just fine. There will be no son of Pen F.

Rick
I think you are right. Those pining for the second coming of the Pen F will still be lamenting the fact at its 20th anniversary. I find it kind of ironic that there are similar dismissive posts about the OM-3 that were posted upon the announcement of the Pen F.

I am glad to see that the hew and cry over the EVF, which in my mind was nonsense since not one of these dismissive posters had even seen an OM-3 in the flesh, let alone looked through the EVF, has been replaced by an equally nonsensical discussion of screws to hold the body together. Maybe we can soon move onto a more pressing debate about which color strap is more authentically retro.
You can look thrue EVF of OM-5 (sensor and eyepiece same) and see how it will look on OM-3. Also i doubt the EVF is there to use it all the time. It is more to use it where there is need for it.
I have an OM-5 and I’ve never found it to be a hinderance to using the camera for either framing the shot, focusing, reviewing the image or changing settings via the SCP or the menus. So why all the derisive comments about the OM-3 EVF ? Or is it just that Johnnies bike is better than mine?
IMHO the folks dont know for EVF are for. Its for composing image. But most want top tier... Just because its top... There is no reason for it, they will not see difference between 2.2 and 5.5mpix EVF.
 
> I'm sure most people don't share my expensive taste in coffee.

Probably a few of us do. Do you photograph the process of making it?

Mark
Only on my phone, so I can remember what I'm drinking.

At the moment, I'm sequencing through Ethiopian Naturals, a Washed Geisha from Columbia, and an Anaerobic Fermentation with of all things peaches. There was a Natural from Yunnan in there somewhere.

I use a cafetiere, so not very technical. My daughters gave me a decent grinder for my 70th.

:)
 
The Pen-F film camera was a cult classic as I understand it, but its primary design value was portability. This form factor goal would have required much more engineering to achieve, going from OM-1 II internals, never mind the battery capacity challenge. With the digital Pen-F setting a very high bar for build, and also generally regarded to have experienced disappointing sales, I imagine OMDS decided to save this more ambitious project for down the line, perhaps funded from profits from products like the OM-3.
E-P# series was getting hammered by EM-5 and EM-1, with similar premium pricing and full feature sets, including [cough] finders, which Panny also provided on their GXs.

They had to completely redesign it and that became the Pen F, a kind of moonshot for them relaunching the premium rangefinderish range. Unique to it for awhile was the 20MP sensor plus the the creative dial.

It's a neat camera that did not sell in huge numbers and their reticence over a 9th anniversary revisit is completely understandable.

The new camera will do just fine. There will be no son of Pen F.

Rick
I think you are right. Those pining for the second coming of the Pen F will still be lamenting the fact at its 20th anniversary. I find it kind of ironic that there are similar dismissive posts about the OM-3 that were posted upon the announcement of the Pen F.

I am glad to see that the hew and cry over the EVF, which in my mind was nonsense since not one of these dismissive posters had even seen an OM-3 in the flesh, let alone looked through the EVF, has been replaced by an equally nonsensical discussion of screws to hold the body together.
It was me who brought that up. It is not nonsensical at all:

- Rumors before release, predicted the OM3 will have "Pen-F quality"

- First reviews from Ambassadors seriously claimed the OM3 has "Pen-F build quality"

- So I expected no visible screws, as that is THE hallmark of Pen-F fit and finish quality. The feature was used by Olympus marketing to highlight the extra premium quality of the Pen-F, so it definitely was something important and of value to Olympus.

After seeing the first pics of the OM3 base-plate, I was shocked to see that many bright and protruding screws. With not even a pro-forma attempt to at least recess them, or make them in same color as the paint. OM3 is finished just like any other camera, that is just seen as a tool to do a job, like a hammer. I felt somewhat disillusioned.

Think about it for a moment. Retro cameras are NOT tools. They sacrifice a lot for the good retro looks. Retro cameras are prime candidates to become collectible cameras. But only if they are exceptionally well made and somehow somewhat special. Being collectible has tangible benefits. Instead of de-valuating at a rapid rate like any other digital camera nowdays that becomes obsolete in 3 years, collectible cameras appreciate in value if not used too much and worn.

I was considering getting one.... but I already have a lot of cameras that serve my needs, and would not use an OM3 much. For me it would have been a collector item, with rare use just for fun. But I do not think anymore it is collectable.
Maybe we can soon move onto a more pressing debate about which color strap is more authentically retro.
It matters a lot for retro cameras. For my Pen-F, I invested in a beautiful handmade saddlery leather UK made strap. The quality of the Pen-F deserves that.

You and others here can make fun of that. But I buy retro cameras not primarily to use as my main camera, but to simply look at and occasionally take out for fun a few times a year and make sure the battery is still charged and fine.

When I bought the Pen-F I did not even know it's specs, I had never looked them up. It was irrelevant: I bought it on impulse when seeing it in the store. What a beautiful and beautifully finished camera, feels all metal in hand, and it's an m43 so it fits my lenses? Take my money I want to take her home.
Yep. 👍
 
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I suspect it's pretty straight forward. People (including me) held back from purchasing the pen-f because it was too expensive and lacked some of the features people wanted. The viewfinder was too small, the focus not good enough, etc.
Consider that when the Pen-F came out, there was only one camera in all of m43 that had the superior PDAF focus: The EM1.1. The Pen-F AF was certainly good enough for it's time. Also consider it did take Olympus 4,5 more years until August 2020, to come out with a better CDAF 20MP autofocus (in the EM10.4).

It was also the very first m43 camera that had a 20MP sensor. All others were still 16MP.

What people held back from purchasing, was most and foremost the very high price for a small camera. And that those that wanted a larger PDAF wildlife camera, were waiting for the release of the EM1.2 which only came out 9 months later, but was already widely speculated about.
To address the reasons it didn't sell too well, they needed to up the specs considerably.
How? It was designed in 2015, and released February 2016.

Back then, it was not possible to squeeze PDAF into such a small body. Today, 9 years later, yes it would be possible. But still nobody has done it (in m43), because it would require major R&D expenses.

The RX100 is small, and has PDAF, proof it is perfectly possible. But the RX100 has a very high price tag for not being an ILC.
Higher-end specs are inconsistent with a small camera that people are unwilling to pay top dollar for.
It depends how you interpret what higher specs are. Higher quality of design and build are specs too. Small size is a spec too. Those specs I think some people will absolutely pay for. Proof is the RX100.

But if you interpret specs as huge viewfinders and top fps, no those are not possible in a small m43 camera as there is no room for it nor is there cooling capacity for it.
Hence the OM-3.

Having handled the OM-3, I think they were right. It's a lovely camera and amply fulfils the needs of a "carry around" camera. With good specs, people are going to be more willing to pay a good price for it.

I doubt there's an enormous market out there of people who care enough about the differences between a rangefinder and slr style of body. I certainly don't. Whether the viewfinder is on the edge or in the middle makes little difference to me.
 
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I suspect it's pretty straight forward. People (including me) held back from purchasing the pen-f because it was too expensive and lacked some of the features people wanted. The viewfinder was too small, the focus not good enough, etc.
Consider that when the Pen-F came out, there was only one camera in all of m43 that had the superior PDAF focus: The EM1.1. The Pen-F AF was certainly good enough for it's time.
It was also the very first m43 camera that had a 20MP sensor. All others were still 16MP.
The GX8 was the first m43 camera with a 20mp sensor it came out the previous year
What people held back from purchasing, was most and foremost the very high price for a small camera. And that those that wanted a larger PDAF wildlife camera, were waiting for the release of the EM1.2 which only came out 9 months later, but was already widely speculated about.
I imagine the lack of weather resistance, no 4k video etc and the impaired handling inherent in a faux RF design didn't help either. Though RF designs have their fans there are plenty who put ergonomics first

To address the reasons it didn't sell too well, they needed to up the specs considerably.
How? It was designed in 2015, and released February 2016.

Back then, it was not possible to squeeze PDAF into such a small body. Today, 9 years later, yes it would be possible. But still nobody has done it, because it would require major R&D expenses.
The even smaller Sony A6000 had a hybrid PDAF/CDAF it came out in 2014

Higher-end specs are inconsistent with a small camera that people are unwilling to pay top dollar for.
It depends how you interpret what higher specs are. Higher quality of design and build are specs too. Small size is a spec too. Those specs I think some people will absolutely pay for.
Build certainly , design is more an opinion I personally never saw the aesthetic appeal of the PEN-F but what do I know I love my GX8 and some consider it hideous :-)
But if you interpret specs as huge viewfinders and top fps, no those are not possible in a small camera as there is no room for it nor is there cooling capacity for it.
Hence the OM-3.

Having handled the OM-3, I think they were right. It's a lovely camera and amply fulfils the needs of a "carry around" camera. With good specs, people are going to be more willing to pay a good price for it.

I doubt there's an enormous market out there of people who care enough about the differences between a rangefinder and slr style of body. I certainly don't. Whether the viewfinder is on the edge or in the middle makes little difference to me.
 
I suspect it's pretty straight forward. People (including me) held back from purchasing the pen-f because it was too expensive and lacked some of the features people wanted. The viewfinder was too small, the focus not good enough, etc.
Consider that when the Pen-F came out, there was only one camera in all of m43 that had the superior PDAF focus: The EM1.1. The Pen-F AF was certainly good enough for it's time.

It was also the very first m43 camera that had a 20MP sensor. All others were still 16MP.
The GX8 was the first m43 camera with a 20mp sensor it came out the previous year
You are right, it was the first Olympus 20MP camera
What people held back from purchasing, was most and foremost the very high price for a small camera. And that those that wanted a larger PDAF wildlife camera, were waiting for the release of the EM1.2 which only came out 9 months later, but was already widely speculated about.
I imagine the lack of weather resistance, no 4k video etc and the impaired handling inherent in a faux RF design didn't help either. Though RF designs have their fans there are plenty who put ergonomics first
To address the reasons it didn't sell too well, they needed to up the specs considerably.
I may add this here that I forgot to mention:

It is not true the Pen-F did not sell well. On this forum 549 say they have it, and 153 say they had it. Many Olympus camera since sold far less well. The EM5.3 and the OM5 added together, sold less units. And this is in a tech forum, where you would expect a retro camera that does not sell itself via tech specs, to show less ownership.

True is Olympus CEO said it did "not meet expectations". And what he meant is profitability, it did not cover R&D and design cost. The pen-F sold well, and for this reason was never discounted by more than $200, very much unlike other models. But is that a surprise, if you consider it was an anniversary camera? Designed at a time m43 was growing, Olympus Imaging was not yet in a financial squeeze, it was intended as a marketing tool to enhance brand recognition and prestige - not to return big profits.
How? It was designed in 2015, and released February 2016.

Back then, it was not possible to squeeze PDAF into such a small body. Today, 9 years later, yes it would be possible. But still nobody has done it, because it would require major R&D expenses.
The even smaller Sony A6000 had a hybrid PDAF/CDAF it came out in 2014
I did not realize that, thank you
Higher-end specs are inconsistent with a small camera that people are unwilling to pay top dollar for.
It depends how you interpret what higher specs are. Higher quality of design and build are specs too. Small size is a spec too. Those specs I think some people will absolutely pay for.
Build certainly , design is more an opinion I personally never saw the aesthetic appeal of the PEN-F but what do I know I love my GX8 and some consider it hideous :-)
But if you interpret specs as huge viewfinders and top fps, no those are not possible in a small camera as there is no room for it nor is there cooling capacity for it.
Hence the OM-3.

Having handled the OM-3, I think they were right. It's a lovely camera and amply fulfils the needs of a "carry around" camera. With good specs, people are going to be more willing to pay a good price for it.

I doubt there's an enormous market out there of people who care enough about the differences between a rangefinder and slr style of body. I certainly don't. Whether the viewfinder is on the edge or in the middle makes little difference to me.
 
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Jaime100 wrote::-)

James...what intrigues me about the OM3 is the added element of creativity that it has.... Now, I can't speak to the OM1 digital as I don't have that nor even seen on
The OM-1 is much cheaper used and in some markets the OM-3 is the same price as the OM-1 II which has better ergonomics, better EVF, dual card support etc. I appreciate that different folk have different likes and dislikes even if they disagree with mine :-) The om-1/II is just 4oz heavier and 0.9in deeper will being a touch taller and a touch narrower , is for me a trivial gain in weight and size for multiple bonuses

But between the OM5 and the E5 series, the OM3 is way ahead in how one can. create with color or BW, let alone pro-capture, ND filters, grad filters etc.....
All options available in more ergonomic bodies :-)

Even though the OM5 and E series is smaller than the OM1, the OM1 isn't that much bigger to effect much. It is about the same size as my Leica M6 and OM1 Film (Both of those weigh a lot more). While design wise, overall...the grip does add a distortion, as what I call it to the sleek feel.
Even small grips are better than none
Grips in general in many cameras might be needed for heavy lens or the heavy bulky FF cameras, but in these smaller cameras, I just don't see a need for a grip. In my E5 Mark 111, if it didn't have a grip, I doubt seriously if it would effect the ergonomics. It is just too small to bother.
Grips are beneficial for handling of all cameras and lens combos not just large lenses digital cameras have many more features and options than their old film ancestors . Everyone has different wants and tastes , I am more swayed by ergonomics than style even more so when the style is really just more of the same minus a grip



0e932c76ebd84b6e9e81bad9af5ee542.jpg



--
Jim Stirling:
"Cogito, ergo sum" Descartes
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
I suspect it's pretty straight forward. People (including me) held back from purchasing the pen-f because it was too expensive and lacked some of the features people wanted. The viewfinder was too small, the focus not good enough, etc.
Consider that when the Pen-F came out, there was only one camera in all of m43 that had the superior PDAF focus: The EM1.1. The Pen-F AF was certainly good enough for it's time.

It was also the very first m43 camera that had a 20MP sensor. All others were still 16MP.
The GX8 was the first m43 camera with a 20mp sensor it came out the previous year
You are right, it was the first Olympus 20MP camera
What people held back from purchasing, was most and foremost the very high price for a small camera. And that those that wanted a larger PDAF wildlife camera, were waiting for the release of the EM1.2 which only came out 9 months later, but was already widely speculated about.
I imagine the lack of weather resistance, no 4k video etc and the impaired handling inherent in a faux RF design didn't help either. Though RF designs have their fans there are plenty who put ergonomics first
To address the reasons it didn't sell too well, they needed to up the specs considerably.
I may add this here that I forgot to mention:

It is not true the Pen-F did not sell well. On this forum 549 say they have it, and 153 say they had it. Many Olympus camera since sold far less well. The EM5.3 and the OM5 added together, sold less units. And this is in a tech forum, where you would expect a retro camera that does not sell itself via tech specs, to show less ownership.

True is Olympus CEO said it did "not meet expectations". And what he meant is profitability,
Given the very many unreliable claims and statements from Olympus camera division over the years I would not be inclined to assume what they meant . Profitability is of course the raison d'etre of all commercial ventures
it did not cover R&D and design cost. The pen-F sold well, and for this reason was never discounted by more than $200, very much unlike other models. But is that a surprise, if you consider it was an anniversary camera? Designed at a time m43 was growing, Olympus Imaging was not yet in a financial squeeze, it was intended as a marketing tool to enhance brand recognition and prestige - not to return big profits.
When you look at the finances Olympus camera division was losing money throughout m43
How? It was designed in 2015, and released February 2016.

Back then, it was not possible to squeeze PDAF into such a small body. Today, 9 years later, yes it would be possible. But still nobody has done it, because it would require major R&D expenses.
The even smaller Sony A6000 had a hybrid PDAF/CDAF it came out in 2014
I did not realize that, thank you
I don't know if it was any good I only recalled it from an old review . The Sony A6000 series held zero appeal
Higher-end specs are inconsistent with a small camera that people are unwilling to pay top dollar for.
It depends how you interpret what higher specs are. Higher quality of design and build are specs too. Small size is a spec too. Those specs I think some people will absolutely pay for.
Build certainly , design is more an opinion I personally never saw the aesthetic appeal of the PEN-F but what do I know I love my GX8 and some consider it hideous :-)
But if you interpret specs as huge viewfinders and top fps, no those are not possible in a small camera as there is no room for it nor is there cooling capacity for it.
Hence the OM-3.

Having handled the OM-3, I think they were right. It's a lovely camera and amply fulfils the needs of a "carry around" camera. With good specs, people are going to be more willing to pay a good price for it.

I doubt there's an enormous market out there of people who care enough about the differences between a rangefinder and slr style of body. I certainly don't. Whether the viewfinder is on the edge or in the middle makes little difference to me.
 
They tried the Pen F style and it didn't work well enough for Olympus (now OMS), not enough to warrant a new model anyway.

Officially, OMs claims they couldn't make the PEN F style body weather-sealed. It sounds a bit dubious to me, but the OM3 is a big larger and weather-sealed so interpret that as you wish
Not only can you make small ILC cameras weather resistant you can make them water proof :-)



01269f5883d64975901aa7affdc214a2.jpg



--
Jim Stirling:
"Cogito, ergo sum" Descartes
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post
 
I suspect it's pretty straight forward. People (including me) held back from purchasing the pen-f because it was too expensive and lacked some of the features people wanted. The viewfinder was too small, the focus not good enough, etc.
Consider that when the Pen-F came out, there was only one camera in all of m43 that had the superior PDAF focus: The EM1.1. The Pen-F AF was certainly good enough for it's time.

It was also the very first m43 camera that had a 20MP sensor. All others were still 16MP.
The GX8 was the first m43 camera with a 20mp sensor it came out the previous year
You are right, it was the first Olympus 20MP camera
What people held back from purchasing, was most and foremost the very high price for a small camera. And that those that wanted a larger PDAF wildlife camera, were waiting for the release of the EM1.2 which only came out 9 months later, but was already widely speculated about.
I imagine the lack of weather resistance, no 4k video etc and the impaired handling inherent in a faux RF design didn't help either. Though RF designs have their fans there are plenty who put ergonomics first
To address the reasons it didn't sell too well, they needed to up the specs considerably.
I may add this here that I forgot to mention:

It is not true the Pen-F did not sell well. On this forum 549 say they have it, and 153 say they had it. Many Olympus camera since sold far less well. The EM5.3 and the OM5 added together, sold less units. And this is in a tech forum, where you would expect a retro camera that does not sell itself via tech specs, to show less ownership.

True is Olympus CEO said it did "not meet expectations". And what he meant is profitability,
Given the very many unreliable claims and statements from Olympus camera division over the years I would not be inclined to assume what they meant . Profitability is of course the raison d'etre of all commercial ventures
it did not cover R&D and design cost. The pen-F sold well, and for this reason was never discounted by more than $200, very much unlike other models. But is that a surprise, if you consider it was an anniversary camera? Designed at a time m43 was growing, Olympus Imaging was not yet in a financial squeeze, it was intended as a marketing tool to enhance brand recognition and prestige - not to return big profits.
When you look at the finances Olympus camera division was losing money throughout m43
How? It was designed in 2015, and released February 2016.

Back then, it was not possible to squeeze PDAF into such a small body. Today, 9 years later, yes it would be possible. But still nobody has done it, because it would require major R&D expenses.
The even smaller Sony A6000 had a hybrid PDAF/CDAF it came out in 2014
I did not realize that, thank you
I don't know if it was any good I only recalled it from an old review . The Sony A6000 series held zero appeal
Well, it does have that rangefinder style appeal that apparently is in high demand

Sony has a 33% mirrorless camera market share. That is 9 times more than m43 across all brands together. And the A6000 was not their worst selling line, they still sell it new today after 11 years here in Australia, a bargain for A$555 body only. That does not sound like zero appeal to me, on the contrary. It's a different appeal, though.
Higher-end specs are inconsistent with a small camera that people are unwilling to pay top dollar for.
It depends how you interpret what higher specs are. Higher quality of design and build are specs too. Small size is a spec too. Those specs I think some people will absolutely pay for.
Build certainly , design is more an opinion I personally never saw the aesthetic appeal of the PEN-F but what do I know I love my GX8 and some consider it hideous :-)
But if you interpret specs as huge viewfinders and top fps, no those are not possible in a small camera as there is no room for it nor is there cooling capacity for it.
Hence the OM-3.

Having handled the OM-3, I think they were right. It's a lovely camera and amply fulfils the needs of a "carry around" camera. With good specs, people are going to be more willing to pay a good price for it.

I doubt there's an enormous market out there of people who care enough about the differences between a rangefinder and slr style of body. I certainly don't. Whether the viewfinder is on the edge or in the middle makes little difference to me.
 
As I do not use straps to carry my cameras, I am swayed by pocket ergonomics.
 

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