$2000 for quarter-frame MLC in 2025?

Perhaps the company will go down, however I've seen that stated for many years, and it's now better than ever.

For my uses, an OM1 Mark II and the 150-400 & 12-100 work far better than carrying full frame equipment. I'll sitck with what works for me.
 
As someone who has been shooting with 43rd and m43rds for more than 20 years, I find it disappointing that JIP has not learned the lessons that lead to the failure of m43rds in realizing it's potential due to poor pricing and product strategy. Their lenses already are sold for a premium, but there is no justification for the pricing on the bodies.

If I was starting new, this is what I could buy in full-frame for way less than what OM-3 retails today:

Canon R8
Sony A7iii
Nikon Zf

Even manufacturer refurbished m43cameras are selling for a premium over FF. Recently I paid more for a refurbished EM5iii than when I purchased a refurbished EOS-RP from Canon.

If m43rd is going to survive, they need to release a $500 entry level body to bring in new users.
I need to recount but this might knock off 3 squares on my Bingo card in one post.
 
Eventhough I’ve been criticising OMD for a while now, and for a good reason, today’s announcment probably is a reason for me to come back into the system.

OM-3 is beautiful camera, with basically ALL the specs I want from my mft camera. Lack of small weather sealed fast primes was a huuuuge problem, but not anymore with these mark 2 versions.

Other reason to come back is mft superiority in macro shooting.

So, I will buy this setup to complement my Canon full frame:

OM-3

M.Zuiko 25mm f1.8 mk II

M.Zuiko 90mm f3.5 macro

PL 9mm f1.7

I’m actually quite excited! I feel that OMD is bringing mft back to its roots!
For that much money I can get a Panny S5 II with 10-20mm for $200 cheaper for the body in Canada.

Guess when my Em1 mk3 dies or I drop it time to move to Panny,
 
First of all the sensor is just one part in the equation. Throw diffraction into the mix and it isn't clear whether a smaller sensor is better or worse than a large sensor. With a large 35mm sensor you need to stop down more (thus losing light) in order to get enough depth of focus, 2 stops versus an m43 sensor. And the noise advantage of the large sensor is about 2 stops, so the net result is the same, unless you want to shoot with very small depth of focus, which can be done with the larger sensor, for those few people who want it.
No. Just...no.

There is a narrow shooting window where you can coax almost FF output from an M43 sensor. Good light, low ISO, careful metering, yes. Anything outside that window and the FF has a significantly broader ability to retain color and tonal gradation information, detail, reduced noise, etc. And, it's not as simple as a "2 stop difference".
Ignoring the sensor an m43 camera versus a 35mm camera have to do the same processing and offer the same features in order to satisfy the same customers. There is nothing that causes the production of the camera to be lower cost, so expecting the miniaturization to result in a lower price is unrealistic.
Miniaturization tends to be more, rather than less expensive, also. So, unless the cameras are less full featured, use already existing technology, and are more plastic, they are not going to be cheaper when smaller.

Case in point: The G100D: This is a small camera, and it's not expensive. And it has terrific looking output. But, look what Panasonic did to get it there: Fewer direct controls on the body. NO IBIS. Not water resistant. No new components. The 20MP sensor is the same as the one in the GX9 (minus the IBIS). The EVF is the same one they are using in the G95, the S5, (and I think the G97) etc. etc.. The battery is the same as in the GX9 (et al). The image processing pipeline gives exactly the same IQ as the GX9, so it most likely is ported over from that body, also. The rear LCD is the same as on the G95, S9, S5, etc. And, the kit 12-32mm has been in production for years, so no lens development was necessary, either.

If they made a G100 with the new, faster, 20MP sensor that's in the OM3, or the 25MP one in the G9II, they would have to spend more on the sensor, processor, internal software, battery, etc, etc, and while it might still be able to be small (unless those sensors need more battery oomph), it would not be cheap, as the costs of development would be significant.
I like m43 because of the smaller size, especially of the lenses. I do not expect the camera to be really cheap, but I do find $2.000 clearly over the top. It's now a waiting game for an OM-5 II which should make the OM-5 less expensive once its successor is out. Sadly there is no news yet about an OM-5 II...
If it had been about $1700 to start, that would have been a better option, but, hey, you never know what the market will do at this point....

-J
 
Eventhough I’ve been criticising OMD for a while now, and for a good reason, today’s announcment probably is a reason for me to come back into the system.

OM-3 is beautiful camera, with basically ALL the specs I want from my mft camera. Lack of small weather sealed fast primes was a huuuuge problem, but not anymore with these mark 2 versions.

Other reason to come back is mft superiority in macro shooting.

So, I will buy this setup to complement my Canon full frame:

OM-3

M.Zuiko 25mm f1.8 mk II

M.Zuiko 90mm f3.5 macro

PL 9mm f1.7

I’m actually quite excited! I feel that OMD is bringing mft back to its roots!
For that much money I can get a Panny S5 II with 10-20mm for $200 cheaper for the body in Canada.
Guess when my Em1 mk3 dies or I drop it time to move to Panny,
Wahoo!! 3 left to go for Blackout. Another checked off box in the B column!! Wasn’t sure if I was gonna get this one.
 
Edit

Eventhough I’ve been criticising OMD for a while now, and for a good reason, today’s announcment probably is a reason for me to come back into the system.

OM-3 is beautiful camera, with basically ALL the specs I want from my mft camera. Lack of small weather sealed fast primes was a huuuuge problem, but not anymore with these mark 2 versions.

Other reason to come back is mft superiority in macro shooting.

So, I will buy this setup to complement my Canon full frame:

OM-3

M.Zuiko 25mm f1.8 mk II

M.Zuiko 90mm f3.5 macro

PL 9mm f1.7

I’m actually quite excited! I feel that OMD is bringing mft back to its roots!
For that much money I can get a Panny S5 II with 10-20mm for $200 cheaper for the body in Canada.
Guess when my Em1 mk3 dies or I drop it time to move to Panny,
 
but there is no justification for the pricing on the bodies.
A Pen-F cost 1200$ in 2016, that would be 1570$ in 2025. The Pen-F was positioned more on the level of a EM5 than EM1. The OM 3 is positioned above the EM5 and has the technology (creative dial!!!) to justify the extra 469$.
If I was starting new, this is what I could buy in full-frame for way less than what OM-3 retails today:

Nikon Zf
Yes, sad that the Zf depreciated that fast. Nice body, meh pc and awful smartphone software.
Even manufacturer refurbished m43cameras are selling for a premium over FF.
Yes, I could get crazy prices for my Pen-F.
If m43rd is going to survive, they need to release a $500 entry level body to bring in new users.
Agreed, but those new users tend to use their phone. They need the best smartphone software, integration with the standard apps and dead simple rock solid wireless connection. Actually all levels of their bodies should have that.
 
So your gripe is that a high end M43 camera should cost less than a low end (or several years old) FF camera? Why?

I don't follow that logic (which is not all that uncommon) personally.
What features or performance does OM-3 have over Canon R-7 or Alpha a6700 (flagship half-frame cameras) to command a 33% price premium? Apart from slightly better IBIS, I can't think of any.
Compared to a6700:

Computational photography and is better looking—maybe better AF, and better EVF (better magnification). The camera is more fun to use. Better weather sealing. Faster sensor readout (stacked sensor), faster electronic shutter. Etc, etc.
 
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Launch price does seem on the high side, but most launch prices do, and Olympus/OM prices do tend to fall after about a year. For those who use and like the OM-1 series, the OM-3 represents quite a powerhouse. It may be a more difficult sell for others. Then again, in recent years, certain retro bodies have had difficulty keeping up with demand. Time will tell if the OM-3 has the secret sauce. So far it seems like it has more sauce than anything previously seen from Olympus/OMS mirrorless lines.

Specific to early 2025, we continue to live in interesting times, and the ~$300 differential between OM-3 pricing for US and Japan makes me wonder if setting the former at $2,000 involved a little pre-tariff strategizing.

As for me, I am still in for an OM-3. In the (now full) “Who’s buying it?” thread I mentioned that my previous attempt at a retro second body was unsuccessful with the Nikon Zfc. I will now be selling that and the 16-55 and 24mm f/1.7 to put towards the OM-3, in black as I’d hoped. We do have a trip to Japan in the works anyway, so if I buy the OM-3 over there I can save $300 and support OMDS directly.

--
Enjoy your small world of photography
 
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First of all the sensor is just one part in the equation. Throw diffraction into the mix and it isn't clear whether a smaller sensor is better or worse than a large sensor. With a large 35mm sensor you need to stop down more (thus losing light) in order to get enough depth of focus, 2 stops versus an m43 sensor. And the noise advantage of the large sensor is about 2 stops, so the net result is the same, unless you want to shoot with very small depth of focus, which can be done with the larger sensor, for those few people who want it.
Not that few people, judging by the much much larger market share of FF and APSC vs the m43. And thin DOF has also many uses. Larger sensors give you at least the option to have the DOF you want based on the case.
Ignoring the sensor an m43 camera versus a 35mm camera have to do the same processing and offer the same features in order to satisfy the same customers. There is nothing that causes the production of the camera to be lower cost, so expecting the miniaturization to result in a lower price is unrealistic.

I like m43 because of the smaller size, especially of the lenses. I do not expect the camera to be really cheap, but I do find $2.000 clearly over the top. It's now a waiting game for an OM-5 II which should make the OM-5 less expensive once its successor is out. Sadly there is no news yet about an OM-5 II...
 
So your gripe is that a high end M43 camera should cost less than a low end (or several years old) FF camera? Why?

I don't follow that logic (which is not all that uncommon) personally.
What features or performance does OM-3 have over Canon R-7 or Alpha a6700 (flagship half-frame cameras) to command a 33% price premium? Apart from slightly better IBIS, I can't think of any.
It’s a legitimate debate whether or not the OM-3 is overpriced for what it does and who it’s for, but the OM-3 and R7 do completely different things. And let’s not even try to pretend that you can compare the R7 technically. The sensor in the R7 is the same midrange sensor that was used in the midrange EOS 90D dslr and midrange M6 Mark II mirrorless cameras. It has a low refresh rate with consequent heavy rolling shutter, and while it might have a much higher resolution to my eye it’s real world overall image quality is no better than the last generation 20mp MFT sensor, with images that in low light and using higher ISOs are noticeably noisy and have muddy looking colours. Flagship it is not. I briefly considered the 90D but decided to go with the E-M5 Mark III. Mostly because I realised that EF-S had no future, but also because I was underwhelmed with the 90D’s IQ.

The R7 Mark II is rumoured to be getting a new stacked sensor that may well provide for a true successor to the 7D series, but I imagine it’ll come with a corresponding hefty price increase to match…
 
As someone who has been shooting with 43rd and m43rds for more than 20 years, I find it disappointing that JIP has not learned the lessons that lead to the failure of m43rds in realizing it's potential due to poor pricing and product strategy. Their lenses already are sold for a premium, but there is no justification for the pricing on the bodies.

If I was starting new, this is what I could buy in full-frame for way less than what OM-3 retails today:

Canon R8
Sony A7iii
Nikon Zf

Even manufacturer refurbished m43cameras are selling for a premium over FF. Recently I paid more for a refurbished EM5iii than when I purchased a refurbished EOS-RP from Canon.

If m43rd is going to survive, they need to release a $500 entry level body to bring in new users.
Yes, but...

We do have to look at the bigger picture: there is a lot of geopolitical stuff happening. The cheese I just ate a piece of, is 3x more expensive than it was 2 yrs ago. The glass of wine I drank with it, 50% more expensive. In this economical context, is a $500 entry level body realistic or plain suïcide?
 
I agree. When folks say a camera should cost $500, that is not realistic at all.
 
[…]

But you're overlooking that you can also buy an R8 for less than an R7 (and it's of course much smaller and lighter). Or two or three RPs for the price of an R7.
no, B&H Photo pricing:

RP body only $899 (marked down from $999)
R7 body only $1499
Or a Z5 or Z6 used for less than a Z50ii.
Used vs brand new - tells us very little about their relative merits

jj
 
If m43rd is going to survive, they need to release a $500 entry level body to bring in new users.
if they're gonna survive they need to start giving users what they collectively ask for
Where is this collective? Who speaks for it?
i haven't seen a single request for a super wide mft camera body. ever
139mm is super wide? It's shorter than a dollar bill.

The overall dimensions make it 25% smaller and 11% lighter than an XT5 which I don't think is a big camera.

XT5: 130 x 91 x 64 mm = 757,120 cu mm (557g)

OM3: 139 x 89 x 46 mm = 569,066 cu mm (496g)
i've seen posts here and watched countless YT videos from younger users all asking for the same thing - compact premium camera bodies
That is exactly what this is.
small bodies. compact. micro...
Maybe you can define small and premium?
regarding the price, it's funny, they invested money in removing the metal parts from the OM5, convinced everyone on here that plastic is better than metal and then invested in developing this new OM3, now touting the premium metal
The OM5 is $1200 and even lighter - that is made possible by plastics.
why didn't they just leave the 5 series as it was, save a load of $$ and just upgrade the internals?
Upgrade to what? Would that increase the cost to the consumer?
instead we now have a ""new"" camera with the same IQ we've had since the release of the Pen F nearly 10 years ago

the strategy is clear to me - milk existing users for all they're worth
The strategy is to fill the $1200 gap between the OM5 and the OM1.2. They did that with a retro design that is all the rage. It is among the best looking cameras I have seen in some time.
 
Judging from a lot of the comments, everyone wants OM Systems to fail.

And, the assumption is that the posters on these forums are the only people that buy and use cameras, so everything should be geared towards their wants.



fascinating stuff…
 
[…]

But you're overlooking that you can also buy an R8 for less than an R7 (and it's of course much smaller and lighter). Or two or three RPs for the price of an R7.
no, B&H Photo pricing:

RP body only $899 (marked down from $999)
R7 body only $1499
Or a Z5 or Z6 used for less than a Z50ii.
Used vs brand new - tells us very little about their relative merits

jj
Ok, but how about a Nikon OEM refurb Z5 (like new , full warranty, often overstock/clearance) for $800?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1651108-REG/nikon_1649b_z_5_mirrorless_digital.html
 
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I can see people buying the OM3 with one or two lenses for a travel kit, or people who already have M43 gear already and add this for roughly the same cost (and less wait time) as a Fuji X100VI. There are a spectrum of needs. In 6+ months there will sales or used kits.

People who want FF for the most performance/IQ per dollar won't likely be cross shopping this camera or any M43/APSC camera.
 

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