M43 is the Swseetspot

luxborealis · Jan 27, 2025

FYI: I recently posted the article ‘Finding the Sweet Spot in Photography’ on the Luminous-Landscape.com: https://luminous-landscape.com/finding-the-sweet-spot-in-photography-part-1/ (join and read—only $12/year or . . . Read on)

Essentially, it summarizes my journey with M43 and why, like many of you, I ditched FF in favour of a more compact yet high IQ system. To me, the reality of photography has been lost to the pixel peepers and the SoNiCan bloggers who earn $ from clicks. It’s not what the pixel-peepers claim that counts, but what appears on screen, in print, and on the wall as a fine art photograph—and M43 is more than up to it.

The same article in full appears on my blog: https://blog.luxborealis.com/2025/01/23/finding-the-sweet-spot-in-photography/

Terry
______________________________________
The essence of place — the art inherent in nature
www.luxBorealis.com

Regor250 · Jan 27, 2025

The challenge for M43 is that a vast majority want the best IQ regardless of their true needs. Larger formats will always be better, it's just plain physics. Therefore what do you say to convince someone who says I want the best IQ I can afford? Those people won't and don't listen to common sense. They will buy what the majority buy because the majority can't be wrong and it's a safer bet, so it keeps perpetuating the sheep mentality. The truth is, the most popular ain't necessay the best for everyone.

--
Roger

TJ Olympus · Jan 27, 2025

Good write up there, totally agree about about M43 being the "sweet spot", true that!

Like I've mentioned on various DPR threads, I switched from Canon FF to Olympus M43 last year for freelance professional work and I'm still amazed at the IQ and, after some fine tweaking, the speed and accuracy of the AF with my small PanaLeica & Oly primes, a massive upgrade from my FF DSLR days. Of course money was a factor in my switch to Oly M43 over Canon's mirrorless FF dual card offerings, but so sweet it is not to have been one of those " you get what you pay for" outcomes.

Yea, I'm the lone oddball I see out there in my locale using M43 for wedding/event photography but I'm over it already and just find pleasure in making great images for clients.

luxborealis · Jan 27, 2025

Yes—I call it the Full Frame Premium. A lot of people buy into it because they are of the mentality that bigger is better, whether they actually use the additional pixels or not. If they can afford it, great. But there are a lot of people who want to pursue serious photography that can’t afford the big glass—and this is where M43 comes in.

For me, it’s also about size and weight. I’d rather carry my gear from 16mm (efov) to 800mm (efov) in a small sling bag of less than 5kg that counts as the ‘personal bag’ you’re allowed on flights, in addition to my carry-on.

And IQ differences are a non-issue for all common uses of photography: online, projected, 4K TV, publishing and fine art printing.

I’m fed up with the tired old lines spun by the SoNiCan pundits who pander to the crowd to get more clicks for income. As you stated, “popular does not mean better”.

Terry
______________________________________
The essence of place — the art inherent in nature.
www.luxBorealis.com

John Bowler · Jan 27, 2025

The article contains a couple of silly assertions.

"M43 bonus being a shutter speed 2EV faster"

You can just use up the notional FF 2 stop ISO advantage to get 2EV faster shutter speed.

"no doubt that M43 produces more noise than a full-frame sensor at every ISO"

Well yes, but, similarly for the same amount of light gathered you have to hike the FF ISO by 2 stops because that light is spread across 4 times the area.

Larger sensors cost more and give you proportionally more dynamic range (which at least you did mention) that's about it. All the other claimed large sensor advantages are down to the larger lenses typically put in front of them.

It should be noted that larger lenses at the shorter focal lengths smaller sensors require become expensive then impossible.

That is the trade off. You pay for more sensor, you pay for more glass, and you have to lug it around.

Perhaps a sweeter spot would be an FF sensor for dynamic range with smaller lenses to save cost and weight, but, you have to look at the available cameras and lenses for them and make a choice.

M4/3 is a bit harder sell than it used to be because everyone else ditched the mirrors and are catching up with ibis, frame rates, computational features, etc.

Tom Wilson 62 · Jan 27, 2025

I agree and it is for the majority of my photography. I'm 82, retired and take pics for a local >50's Community Centre, Earth Week and related activities, a Retirees Association I belong to as well as family pics.

I find M43 is not too heavy for me and is great and very versatile for the majority of my pics including most non-flash indoor events. I don't use flash as I find it's intrusive for my type of photography so, when the light is really dim (i.e. dances etc) I reach for my FF as it gives me better high ISO results. I know Topaz etc do a great job but they still don't match my FF for the odd event.

It's back to the old "horses for courses" adage and I'm very happy with M43 for 90% of what I do but the big'un does sometime come in handy.

Take care all from an old guy. Tom Wilson in Canada.

mmartel · Jan 27, 2025

John Bowler said:
The article contains a couple of silly assertions.

"M43 bonus being a shutter speed 2EV faster"

You can just use up the notional FF 2 stop ISO advantage to get 2EV faster shutter speed.

"no doubt that M43 produces more noise than a full-frame sensor at every ISO"

Well yes, but, similarly for the same amount of light gathered you have to hike the FF ISO by 2 stops because that light is spread across 4 times the area.

Larger sensors cost more and give you proportionally more dynamic range (which at least you did mention) that's about it. All the other claimed large sensor advantages are down to the larger lenses typically put in front of them.

It should be noted that larger lenses at the shorter focal lengths smaller sensors require become expensive then impossible.

That is the trade off. You pay for more sensor, you pay for more glass, and you have to lug it around.

Perhaps a sweeter spot would be an FF sensor for dynamic range with smaller lenses to save cost and weight, but, you have to look at the available cameras and lenses for them and make a choice.

M4/3 is a bit harder sell than it used to be because everyone else ditched the mirrors and are catching up with ibis, frame rates, computational features, etc.

Good counterpoints.

It's also possible to get more megapixels in FF than with m43, which can be useful to some photographers for some applications (not me, but just saying...).

Reality is there aren't always equivalent lenses (fast enough/slow enough/light enough/cheap enough/good enough) available in FF and m43 systems so one must pick and choose; or run both formats to enjoy what's available (bodies and lenses) in both camps (as some do).

Of course, for those of us who choose not to run multiple systems and just use m43 for whatever reason, one must address (i.e. cope/wrestle/reconcile with) the limitations of the m43 format as well as the steady drumbeat of both experienced and inexperienced forum dwellers and influencers who never miss an opportunity to remind us of m43 "tradeoffs" (aka, long laundry list of inferiorities).

And to be sure, folks like me who only use m43 have developed an impressive and entertaining array of coping mechanisms on this forum, from rewriting physics and declaring oneself equivalence free, to declaring m43 the best format on the market, to viciously attacking FF users as "sheep" who have been sold on "size and capture theory", etc. etc.

It all keeps things incredibly lively here.

Dino Anderson · Jan 27, 2025

For daytime nature photography, typically on hikes, m43 is the sweet spot for me as well. Sufficient dynamic range, sufficient detail, more than decent image fidelity.

For the landscape astrophotography that I do I now use a 35mm system. Mind you, it's still very much doable with m43 and I have got pretty good results. But the larger format allows for a noticeable improvement in this genre of photography and also makes it easier to obtain them which is not something to underestimate.

Cafe Racer · Jan 27, 2025

luxborealis said:
Yes—I call it the Full Frame Premium. A lot of people buy into it because they are of the mentality that bigger is better, whether they actually use the additional pixels or not.

Some people think smaller and lighter with high performance features is better whether they actually utilise those features or not.

luxborealis said:
If they can afford it, great. But there are a lot of people who want to pursue serious photography that can’t afford the big glass—and this is where M43 comes in.

This is also where DSLR kit comes in. Mirrorless is not an essential requirement for everyone.

luxborealis said:
For me, it’s also about size and weight.

For plenty of other people it's not.

luxborealis said:
I’d rather carry my gear from 16mm (efov) to 800mm (efov) in a small sling bag of less than 5kg that counts as the ‘personal bag’ you’re allowed on flights, in addition to my carry-on.

That's your preference.

luxborealis said:
And IQ differences are a non-issue for all common uses of photography: online, projected, 4K TV, publishing and fine art printing.

So a Canon 5d mkIII should be fine.

luxborealis said:
I’m fed up with the tired old lines spun by the SoNiCan pundits who pander to the crowd to get more clicks for income. As you stated, “popular does not mean better”.

I'm sure there's people that are fed up with those that feel the need to constantly justify m4/3rds with tired old lines about smaller and lighter and being the sweet spot, as if that's what everyone should care about. Smaller and lighter doesn't necessarily mean a sweetspot, it's a preference.

SeeingSomeThingsMissingMany · Jan 27, 2025

John Bowler said:
for the same amount of light gathered you have to hike the FF ISO by 2 stops because that light is spread across 4 times the area.

Important necessary consideration.

On dpr Medium Format forum someone made a thread To MF or not to MF.

Jim Kasson colour scientist in IBM several decades as well as a respected tester of photographic cameras lenses from Medium Format, Full Frame wrote.

JimKasson said:
You need to be able to put more light on a 33x44mm sensor than a FF one to achieve all of the advantages of the larger format.

--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.

John Bowler · Jan 27, 2025

mmartel said:
It's also possible to get more megapixels in FF than with m43, which can be useful to some photographers for some applications (not me, but just saying...).

Yes noting that it is a what is available not a sensor size thing. My phone has more pixels than MF Fujifilms for example.

IMO 20 Mpix is enough for almost everything. There is a case for cropping from more pixels on a larger sensor because it lets you get away with sloppy framing. I have taken whole lot of bird in flight but not completely in frame photos

mmartel · Jan 27, 2025

John Bowler said:
mmartel said:

It's also possible to get more megapixels in FF than with m43, which can be useful to some photographers for some applications (not me, but just saying...).

Click to expand...

Yes noting that it is a what is available not a sensor size thing. My phone has more pixels than MF Fujifilms for example.

What is available is a sensor/format thing, though. Sure you have a phone that can give you 200 megapixels. But show me which m43 camera can get me more than 25 megapixels without multishot chicanery.

John Bowler said:
IMO 20 Mpix is enough for almost everything. There is a case for cropping from more pixels on a larger sensor because it lets you get away with sloppy framing. I have taken whole lot of bird in flight but not completely in frame photos

Some share your opinion. Others don't.

GutiWong · Jan 28, 2025

luxborealis said:
FYI: I recently posted the article ‘Finding the Sweet Spot in Photography’ on the Luminous-Landscape.com: https://luminous-landscape.com/finding-the-sweet-spot-in-photography-part-1/ (join and read—only $12/year or . . . Read on)

Essentially, it summarizes my journey with M43 and why, like many of you, I ditched FF in favour of a more compact yet high IQ system. To me, the reality of photography has been lost to the pixel peepers and the SoNiCan bloggers who earn $ from clicks. It’s not what the pixel-peepers claim that counts, but what appears on screen, in print, and on the wall as a fine art photograph—and M43 is more than up to it.

The same article in full appears on my blog: https://blog.luxborealis.com/2025/01/23/finding-the-sweet-spot-in-photography/

Terry
______________________________________
The essence of place — the art inherent in nature
www.luxBorealis.com

Good article

j tokarz · Jan 28, 2025

People seem to be forgetting the SNOB / mines better than yours, mentality . Which is prevalent in photography. Especially here on DP REVIEW. People with Z9s plus 600mm lens to photograph ducks. when my olympus OM1 with 40-150mm will do the same job. Ask Andy Rouse. M43 is definitely the sweet spot.

James Stirling · Jan 28, 2025

j tokarz said:
People seem to be forgetting the SNOB / mines better than yours, mentality . Which is prevalent in photography. Especially here on DP REVIEW. People with Z9s plus 600mm lens to photograph ducks. when my olympus OM1 with 40-150mm will do the same job. Ask Andy Rouse. M43 is definitely the sweet spot.

I am curious how you can take an action shot on a 150mm { 300mm F/5.6 FF equiv } lens using a 20mp m43 sensor that will do the same job as a 600mm lens on a 45mp FF sensor

Andy Rouse skips from brand to brand regularly his sweet spot changes often

Sounds like Sony may be his latest jump

--
Jim Stirling:
"Cogito, ergo sum" Descartes
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

guy_incognito1 · Jan 28, 2025

luxborealis said:
It’s not what the pixel-peepers claim that counts, but what appears on screen, in print, and on the wall as a fine art photograph—and M43 is more than up to it.

Yeah, I don't understand-but-understand why M43 are so utterly fixated on FF.

But I feel like you are preaching to the wrong crowd. The problem is that if you don't pixel peep, and don't want to take pictures of birds, the vast majority of people have decided that SMARTPHONES are the sweet spot. Great OOC photo, Instant photo editing, instant cloud saves, instant sharing.

The question that everyone here is fixated on is "is MFT good enough to take decent-enough photos compared to FF"

Which is not the real issue with the market.

The real question is "To a person who has a flagship smartphone, what is the value proposition of an MFT system compared to APS-C or FF"

or "Does the difference in quality between MFT and smartphones justify the spending"

SrMi · Jan 28, 2025

guy_incognito1 said:
luxborealis said:

It’s not what the pixel-peepers claim that counts, but what appears on screen, in print, and on the wall as a fine art photograph—and M43 is more than up to it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't understand-but-understand why M43 are so utterly fixated on FF.

But I feel like you are preaching to the wrong crowd. The problem is that if you don't pixel peep, and don't want to take pictures of birds, the vast majority of people have decided that SMARTPHONES are the sweet spot. Great OOC photo, Instant photo editing, instant cloud saves, instant sharing.

The question that everyone here is fixated on is "is MFT good enough to take decent-enough photos compared to FF"

Which is not the real issue with the market.

The real question is "To a person who has a flagship smartphone, what is the value proposition of an MFT system compared to APS-C or FF"

or "Does the difference in quality between MFT and smartphones justify the spending"

For enthusiasts, there is a considerable difference in IQ between m43 and smartphones unless one likes the overprocessed automatic output. The only advantage of smartphones is that they may be the only camera I have with me.

M43 may be the sweetspot between shooting with a smartphone and a medium format camera.

jjbinx · Jan 28, 2025

Mine is for general and travel,

but my Canon APS-C is it for birding

and my Canon FF is it for landscapes

jj

daddyo · Jan 28, 2025

Once his joints start talking to him on a regular basis, he'll be back to m4/3's.

M4/3's truly is the aging person's format -- I keep seeing posts on numerous forums where people are inquiring about m4/3's because they are simply tired of cart their FF system around. The bright lining for m4/3's format is that we are all aging, and ultimately it comes down to whether we are willing to let out photography become a painful experience, and no fun anymore -- or to give up a tad of that FF quality to continue or return to photography as a fun experience.

I made that decision a long time ago, and don't regret it -- now that I'm 78, I continue to have fun photographing any and all things.

SrMi · Jan 28, 2025

daddyo said:
Once his joints start talking to him on a regular basis, he'll be back to m4/3's.

M4/3's truly is the aging person's format --

I feel more relaxed and productive when shooting with a small, light camera system. It does not a matter of how much I can carry.

daddyo said:
I keep seeing posts on numerous forums where people are inquiring about m4/3's because they are simply tired of cart their FF system around. The bright lining for m4/3's format is that we are all aging, and ultimately it comes down to whether we are willing to let out photography become a painful experience, and no fun anymore -- or to give up a tad of that FF quality to continue or return to photography as a fun experience.

I made that decision a long time ago, and don't regret it -- now that I'm 78, I continue to have fun photographing any and all things.

M43 is the Swseetspot

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Forum Enthusiast

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Veteran Member

jjbinx

Guest

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts