Panasonic cameras are the worst cameras for lighting photography.

Gyroscope said:

You have 2 cameras right? Do you set them both up on tripods and shoot them together? While one is doing LENR the other can be shooting. I've done thar myself though not for lightning.

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Luke77 said:

Waiting for the darn noise reduction buffer to clear!

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Aoyagi said:

Do try Live View Composite. There is no better way to shoot lightning that I know of (in any brand).

Aoyagi said:

Waiting for the darn noise reduction buffer to clear!

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It's not a "buffer" it's just creating a black exposure of the same exposure time and uses that to clean up the image.

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Luke77 said:

Aoyagi said:

Do try Live View Composite. There is no better way to shoot lightning that I know of (in any brand).

Luke77 said:

Waiting for the darn noise reduction buffer to clear!

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It's not a "buffer" it's just creating a black exposure of the same exposure time and uses that to clean up the image.

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Wow thanks dude I had know idea that feature was even their. I will be testing that out ASAP

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Lettermanian said:

Luke77 said:

Aoyagi said:

Do try Live View Composite. There is no better way to shoot lightning that I know of (in any brand).

Lettermanian said:

Waiting for the darn noise reduction buffer to clear!

Click to expand...

It's not a "buffer" it's just creating a black exposure of the same exposure time and uses that to clean up the image.

Click to expand...

Wow thanks dude I had know idea that feature was even their. I will be testing that out ASAP

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Live View Comp is in the S5, not the S1 unfortunately.

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Luke77 said:

QM said:

Luke77 said:

Nazpharoz said:

Luke77 said:

jalywol said:

Perhaps you should read the manual.

If you want full size RAW previews in camera, just record in RAW +JPG mode. Problem solved. Panasonic has always done their previews this way, perhaps to save space on the cards, but it works fine. And, it's nice to have full size JPGs available, as sometimes having a quick image handy without needing to process the RAWs first can be a time saver for casual shots.

In any case it sounds like the S1 is not your cup of tea. Perhaps you need to go back to one of the other systems you've mentioned, as they apparently are a better choice for your uses.

-J

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I think your missing my point. If every other camera brand is capable of providing full resolution previews in raw mode and have done for almost 20 years why can't Panasonic? Hell even most entry level point and shoot cameras offer that basic function. Shooting jpeg + raw is just an unnecessary inconvenience. Also means more time sorting & deleting later on.

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There are several other camera brands doing the same, if you shoot raw only, there will be a small sized jpeg file too, so you can preview this on the camera itself. They mostly are the smallest selectable jpeg size if you don’t want to shoot jpeg+raw, some use the details as fine, others also as bad as possible.

About the hot pixels, maybe something wrong happend with your S1 camera. The sensor inside is a standard Sony made 24mp sensor which Sony and Nikon uses too.

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Maybe do a test for yourself with my settings and see what you get. I got both my s1 cameras from the same store but surly they both couldn't have bad sensors.

I've just simply never seen such terrible noise like this. I could shoot this same photo on my beat up Sony a7 at double the iso without any noise reduction and only get maybe a dozen hot pixels at most. It truly boggles my mind.

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But you know, you have always noise reduction with older Sony models. You can't turn it off. That's why they had the infamous star eater bug. Maybe that's the reason why. As far I know als Nikon has some baked in noise reduction in all there raw Files.

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I'm awake many brands do that including Sony but at least it's applied during the picture process so you don't have to wait for LENR after every shot. I missed some amazing lightning bolts during the last storm while waiting for that LENR to finish, it's just not worth it. I'll take the S1 over Sony for every other type of photography except Lightning photography.

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georgehudetz said:

Luke77 said:

QM said:

Luke77 said:

Nazpharoz said:

Luke77 said:

jalywol said:

Perhaps you should read the manual.

If you want full size RAW previews in camera, just record in RAW +JPG mode. Problem solved. Panasonic has always done their previews this way, perhaps to save space on the cards, but it works fine. And, it's nice to have full size JPGs available, as sometimes having a quick image handy without needing to process the RAWs first can be a time saver for casual shots.

In any case it sounds like the S1 is not your cup of tea. Perhaps you need to go back to one of the other systems you've mentioned, as they apparently are a better choice for your uses.

-J

Click to expand...

I think your missing my point. If every other camera brand is capable of providing full resolution previews in raw mode and have done for almost 20 years why can't Panasonic? Hell even most entry level point and shoot cameras offer that basic function. Shooting jpeg + raw is just an unnecessary inconvenience. Also means more time sorting & deleting later on.

Click to expand...

There are several other camera brands doing the same, if you shoot raw only, there will be a small sized jpeg file too, so you can preview this on the camera itself. They mostly are the smallest selectable jpeg size if you don’t want to shoot jpeg+raw, some use the details as fine, others also as bad as possible.

About the hot pixels, maybe something wrong happend with your S1 camera. The sensor inside is a standard Sony made 24mp sensor which Sony and Nikon uses too.

Click to expand...

Maybe do a test for yourself with my settings and see what you get. I got both my s1 cameras from the same store but surly they both couldn't have bad sensors.

I've just simply never seen such terrible noise like this. I could shoot this same photo on my beat up Sony a7 at double the iso without any noise reduction and only get maybe a dozen hot pixels at most. It truly boggles my mind.

Click to expand...

But you know, you have always noise reduction with older Sony models. You can't turn it off. That's why they had the infamous star eater bug. Maybe that's the reason why. As far I know als Nikon has some baked in noise reduction in all there raw Files.

Click to expand...

I'm awake many brands do that including Sony but at least it's applied during the picture process so you don't have to wait for LENR after every shot. I missed some amazing lightning bolts during the last storm while waiting for that LENR to finish, it's just not worth it. I'll take the S1 over Sony for every other type of photography except Lightning photography.

Click to expand...

I do a lot of long exposure photography for astro and lightning storms, with both an S1 and an S5. Both do have hot pixels, but nothing like what you are showing.

I rely on Capture One to remove the hot pixels, using their "Single Pixel NR" setting. Usually the default works fine which means I do nothing other than zoom in 100% to make sure the result is good. Sometimes I have to increase the strength a bit. I never use the in-camera LENR, for the reasons you note.

While it may be a bit annoying, I'll take it over aggressive baked-in NR any day.

But yes, the Live View Composite feature in the S5 & S5II is the cat's meow for lightning or fireworks photography.





--
http://georgehudetzphotography.smugmug.com/
Capture One LUMIX FF feature request thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4658107#forum-post-66298057

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Luke77 said:

georgehudetz said:

Luke77 said:

QM said:

Luke77 said:

Nazpharoz said:

Luke77 said:

jalywol said:

Perhaps you should read the manual.

If you want full size RAW previews in camera, just record in RAW +JPG mode. Problem solved. Panasonic has always done their previews this way, perhaps to save space on the cards, but it works fine. And, it's nice to have full size JPGs available, as sometimes having a quick image handy without needing to process the RAWs first can be a time saver for casual shots.

In any case it sounds like the S1 is not your cup of tea. Perhaps you need to go back to one of the other systems you've mentioned, as they apparently are a better choice for your uses.

-J

Click to expand...

I think your missing my point. If every other camera brand is capable of providing full resolution previews in raw mode and have done for almost 20 years why can't Panasonic? Hell even most entry level point and shoot cameras offer that basic function. Shooting jpeg + raw is just an unnecessary inconvenience. Also means more time sorting & deleting later on.

Click to expand...

There are several other camera brands doing the same, if you shoot raw only, there will be a small sized jpeg file too, so you can preview this on the camera itself. They mostly are the smallest selectable jpeg size if you don’t want to shoot jpeg+raw, some use the details as fine, others also as bad as possible.

About the hot pixels, maybe something wrong happend with your S1 camera. The sensor inside is a standard Sony made 24mp sensor which Sony and Nikon uses too.

Click to expand...

Maybe do a test for yourself with my settings and see what you get. I got both my s1 cameras from the same store but surly they both couldn't have bad sensors.

I've just simply never seen such terrible noise like this. I could shoot this same photo on my beat up Sony a7 at double the iso without any noise reduction and only get maybe a dozen hot pixels at most. It truly boggles my mind.

Click to expand...

But you know, you have always noise reduction with older Sony models. You can't turn it off. That's why they had the infamous star eater bug. Maybe that's the reason why. As far I know als Nikon has some baked in noise reduction in all there raw Files.

Click to expand...

I'm awake many brands do that including Sony but at least it's applied during the picture process so you don't have to wait for LENR after every shot. I missed some amazing lightning bolts during the last storm while waiting for that LENR to finish, it's just not worth it. I'll take the S1 over Sony for every other type of photography except Lightning photography.

Click to expand...

I do a lot of long exposure photography for astro and lightning storms, with both an S1 and an S5. Both do have hot pixels, but nothing like what you are showing.

I rely on Capture One to remove the hot pixels, using their "Single Pixel NR" setting. Usually the default works fine which means I do nothing other than zoom in 100% to make sure the result is good. Sometimes I have to increase the strength a bit. I never use the in-camera LENR, for the reasons you note.

While it may be a bit annoying, I'll take it over aggressive baked-in NR any day.

But yes, the Live View Composite feature in the S5 & S5II is the cat's meow for lightning or fireworks photography.

Click to expand...

The hot pixels in my lightning photos differently got worse as the camera heated up. Those really bad shots where after about an hour of use on a pretty hot night. I'm gonna experiment with electronic shutter over the weekend to see if that lessons the problem. As for capture one I'm definitely not switch editing software again. I wrote to Panasonic yesterday requesting they please add live view composite to the s1 via firmware update. I'm not expecting them to listen.

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georgehudetz said:

Not sure why the shutter type would matter, but if it does, that would be good to know. I normally use full mechanical because that's the only way you can use bulb mode to get beyond 64 seconds. In all other shutter modes, bulb mode self-terminates at 64 seconds. Not sure if that's an issue for the way you shoot.

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Luke77 said:

After shooting several night storms with the Lumix s1 I can honestly say this is the worst camera system I've ever used for shooting lightning. The first time I used the s1 every picture was unusable because of the shocking amounts of hot/stuck pixels in every raw photo. Even shooting at iso 100 for a few seconds would result in hundreds of red/green/blue pixels, and longer exposures would result in thousands. Ever bright well exposed photos were affected. I thought the camera must have a bad sensor until I started doing some research online and came to learn that this is surprisingly normal for Lumix cameras and the only way to prevent it is to turn on Long Exposure Noise Reduction in the settings. This fixed the pixel problem but created another massive problem. Waiting for the darn noise reduction buffer to clear! It has literally cut the amount of shooting time in half and I've already missed dozens of awesome lightning shoots while waiting for that stupid noise reduction. I've shot lightning with Nikon, Fujifilm & Sony and never had to worry about this and never had to turn on noise reduction. Yes now & then I would get a few hot pixels but nothing that would ever ruin my photos like the Lumix s1. I personally find it laughable that such a modern camera can be this bad at something Sony's first full frame mirrorless camera the a7 achieved in 2013 and the Nikon d3 from 2007, two cameras that I've owned since their release.

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ptr22 said:

ptr22 said:

Not sure why the shutter type would matter, but if it does, that would be good to know. I normally use full mechanical because that's the only way you can use bulb mode to get beyond 64 seconds. In all other shutter modes, bulb mode self-terminates at 64 seconds. Not sure if that's an issue for the way you shoot.

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EFC also works on the S5 if I remember correctly.

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Luke77 said:

After shooting several night storms with the Lumix s1 I can honestly say this is the worst camera system I've ever used for shooting lightning. The first time I used the s1 every picture was unusable because of the shocking amounts of hot/stuck pixels in every raw photo. Even shooting at iso 100 for a few seconds would result in hundreds of red/green/blue pixels, and longer exposures would result in thousands. Ever bright well exposed photos were affected. I thought the camera must have a bad sensor until I started doing some research online and came to learn that this is surprisingly normal for Lumix cameras and the only way to prevent it is to turn on Long Exposure Noise Reduction in the settings. This fixed the pixel problem but created another massive problem. Waiting for the darn noise reduction buffer to clear! It has literally cut the amount of shooting time in half and I've already missed dozens of awesome lightning shoots while waiting for that stupid noise reduction. I've shot lightning with Nikon, Fujifilm & Sony and never had to worry about this and never had to turn on noise reduction. Yes now & then I would get a few hot pixels but nothing that would ever ruin my photos like the Lumix s1. I personally find it laughable that such a modern camera can be this bad at something Sony's first full frame mirrorless camera the a7 achieved in 2013 and the Nikon d3 from 2007, two cameras that I've owned since their release. The s1 is a phenomenal camera in so many ways but is truly backwards in some of the most basic. Even pixel peeping a raw photo in preview to check focus can't be done on the s1 which is about as basic at it comes and has been on every other brand camera for 20+ years.

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Aoyagi said:

Well, Sony is baking (more of) classic noise reduction into their RAWs, so maybe that's what's makes the difference.

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