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Prospects for a smaller/lighter Nikon FX body (and lenses)?
- Thread starter greendave
- Start date
greendave
Forum Enthusiast
Horses for courses.The idea that a Z6 etc is "heavy" is a mind boggling concept to me
Many of the people I hike or backpack with won't even take anything more than a phone at this point for photos. Why? They don't feel the quality difference is justified and they don't enjoy carrying the camera kit. And most of these people have competent mirrorless (or DSLR) kits.
I've gotten fairly used to carrying a 2-2.5 lbs kit, but I certainly enjoy it more when the weight is on the lower-end of that.
(15 years ago, I was carrying a D700 + 24-120 on the same types of trips. That was more than 4 lbs and I'm very happy mirrorless has made that unnecessary).
starbase218
Senior Member
Maybe it’s not that it’s “unacceptable”, just not preferred. I like to travel and I do so taking only carry-on luggage. I have a spreadsheet with every potential item I travel with, and I’m always looking for smaller/lighter setups. Simply because it makes the trip more enjoyable. Some might say, get a Zfc for travel and a Z8 for everything else, but what if I want to shoot wildlife while I travel (which I have)? In fact, travel is when I predominantly do photography in the first place. So I want to take capable gear, but I also don’t want it to be too big and heavy. I know I have to make some compromises regarding light gathering capability (not going to travel with a 400/2.8, and even the 180-600 is rather large). But AI noise reduction can help a lot. So there is still a case to be made for having a small and light, high performance body.It doesn’t mean I want a heavy and fat camera kit to drag around.
And carrying around a Z6 plus some Z lens is a big heavy fat kit? I feel like I've stepped into the twilight zone where carrying anything heavier than one's hand is deemed unaccepatable
For me, the Z6 series is ok in terms of weight. But I would have to choose between the best AF (Z6 III) and high resolution (Z7 II). Coming back to lenses, my longest one is currently a Tamron 100-400. For mirrorless I might get the newer 50-400. But then I’d like to flip the camera into DX mode and still get decent resolution. So then I might gravitate to the Z8, which also has the shutter shield which I like. But yeah, it is bigger and heavier.
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michaeladawson
Forum Pro
I'm 66 and have had two hip replacements in the last two years and progressing arthritis in my fingers. I'll let you be the judge.I assume you are not really old and don't have health problems then.
I already said I would appreciate smaller and lighter gear. I just don't "demand" it from Nikon. I'm not sure what more you want.
greendave
Forum Enthusiast
Absolutely - it all depends on what you need.I don't have a problem with the lens lineup. And I freely also use any and all of my AF-S Nikon and Sigma lenses when I need them. So not a problem for everybody, just if someone has a particular lens configuration not currently available.
My problem isn't really with the system itself - it's with Nikon's disinterest in filling out the lens lineup and updating the bodies. I have used adapters extensively and I don't really mind using then for lenses that I only need occasionally (I have Sony and EF mount adapters for my Z6, as well as the FTZ), but they do impose a size/stability penalty and typically have quirks, so for lenses I use a lot, I'd really prefer them to be native.
That sounds reasonable for someone as young as you. It's a shame you have had the health problems you have though. At your age, I had been lucky and had never been sick in my entire life, and did whatever I wanted. Oh, well. Now every ounce has it's effect if I have to carry it.
toomanycanons
Forum Pro
Was the skinniest guy in my crew and just wanted to get stronger
I never got big, really, just stronger. Then I started working as a carpenter framing homes and that will get your arms and hands strong but I still lifted because, well, I liked it
I never went through a stage where the docs said "you need to get fitter, go to the gym, doctors orders", I've always worked out in a gym and stayed fit and stronger than the next guy my size
Anyway, I realize a very small percentage of the population works out in a gym and as such their strength just never improves and basically declines over time. What was once liftable (moving a couch maybe) becomes impossible
I broke my right wrist once and couldn't use my right hand for a year. When I started using it again I couldn't even open a jar lid, there was just was nothing there
So I know what it's like to be weak but as soon as I could work out regularly in the gym that was the best day of my life
So when I advise you all who think a Z6 is heavy, because you are in a position to actually think that, well you do need to get to the gym and get strong enough that the 1 1/2 lb Z6 + lens feels really light, like it does to me. I hardly even feel it when carrying it in my hands (alternating right and left)
Doesn't matter if you're older than dirt, you can always get stronger. Maybe I'm lucky in that regard, I truly like lifting heavy things which I know isn't for everyone
I never got big, really, just stronger. Then I started working as a carpenter framing homes and that will get your arms and hands strong but I still lifted because, well, I liked it
I never went through a stage where the docs said "you need to get fitter, go to the gym, doctors orders", I've always worked out in a gym and stayed fit and stronger than the next guy my size
Anyway, I realize a very small percentage of the population works out in a gym and as such their strength just never improves and basically declines over time. What was once liftable (moving a couch maybe) becomes impossible
I broke my right wrist once and couldn't use my right hand for a year. When I started using it again I couldn't even open a jar lid, there was just was nothing there
So I know what it's like to be weak but as soon as I could work out regularly in the gym that was the best day of my life
So when I advise you all who think a Z6 is heavy, because you are in a position to actually think that, well you do need to get to the gym and get strong enough that the 1 1/2 lb Z6 + lens feels really light, like it does to me. I hardly even feel it when carrying it in my hands (alternating right and left)
Doesn't matter if you're older than dirt, you can always get stronger. Maybe I'm lucky in that regard, I truly like lifting heavy things which I know isn't for everyone
This exists already though for the most part albeit slightly heavier, size wise it slips into similar small space -- The Sony A7CR (even better specs than z7ii, and pop a small prime on it like the Zeiss 35mm 2.8.I think both sides here are exaggerating. No one needs to go to the gym to carry around a Z7 and a couple lenses. The Z7 and a couple lenses is not a heavy fat camera kit to drag around.It doesn’t mean I want a heavy and fat camera kit to drag around.
And carrying around a Z6 plus some Z lens is a big heavy fat kit? I feel like I've stepped into the twilight zone where carrying anything heavier than one's hand is deemed unaccepatable
I have no issues carrying a Z7, or even Z8, all day long on a sling strap with a 24-120 lens attached. It doesn't mean a lighter and smaller option wouldn't be appreciated.
I love to go out and wander about town with my Fujifilm X-E3 and small f/2 lenses. But I don't take it on serious photo travels because it isn't going to deliver the IQ I want. So I travel with the Z7 or Z8. No big deal.
Would I love something with the same specs as a Z7 II in something the size of the X-E3? I'd love it. But it isn't going to happen and I don't expect it to. And I'm not complaining even if I support the idea of smaller and lighter gear.
I'd just like Nikon to also produce something smaller with smaller lenses.
I had the X-E3 also (and X-E2), thinking about buying another one but Fuji prices have gone through the roof.
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Bingo, I've had the Z6, Z5, and now the Zf. It's not unacceptable, I'm still shooting Nikon, but I'd want something even smaller ideally. I had a Zfc also, but AF wasn't great, there is no IBIS, it's not weather sealed (important for travel), and I just prefer Full Frame IQ. Many times I don't want a bag at at all. Just throw camera in a coat pocket then have another light prime in the other pocket.Maybe it’s not that it’s “unacceptable”, just not preferred. I like to travel and I do so taking only carry-on luggage. I have a spreadsheet with every potential item I travel with, and I’m always looking for smaller/lighter setups. Simply because it makes the trip more enjoyable. Some might say, get a Zfc for travel and a Z8 for everything else, but what if I want to shoot wildlife while I travel (which I have)? In fact, travel is when I predominantly do photography in the first place. So I want to take capable gear, but I also don’t want it to be too big and heavy. I know I have to make some compromises regarding light gathering capability (not going to travel with a 400/2.8, and even the 180-600 is rather large). But AI noise reduction can help a lot. So there is still a case to be made for having a small and light, high performance body.It doesn’t mean I want a heavy and fat camera kit to drag around.
And carrying around a Z6 plus some Z lens is a big heavy fat kit? I feel like I've stepped into the twilight zone where carrying anything heavier than one's hand is deemed unaccepatable
For me, the Z6 series is ok in terms of weight. But I would have to choose between the best AF (Z6 III) and high resolution (Z7 II). Coming back to lenses, my longest one is currently a Tamron 100-400. For mirrorless I might get the newer 50-400. But then I’d like to flip the camera into DX mode and still get decent resolution. So then I might gravitate to the Z8, which also has the shutter shield which I like. But yeah, it is bigger and heavier.
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jmccas
Leading Member
Those that want smaller gear don’t necessarily care about the weight, it’s the dimensions. I have no issues working with the Z8 and telephoto lenses. However when I’m traveling or shooting street, I want something smaller and inconspicuous.Was the skinniest guy in my crew and just wanted to get stronger
I never got big, really, just stronger. Then I started working as a carpenter framing homes and that will get your arms and hands strong but I still lifted because, well, I liked it
I never went through a stage where the docs said "you need to get fitter, go to the gym, doctors orders", I've always worked out in a gym and stayed fit and stronger than the next guy my size
Anyway, I realize a very small percentage of the population works out in a gym and as such their strength just never improves and basically declines over time. What was once liftable (moving a couch maybe) becomes impossible
I broke my right wrist once and couldn't use my right hand for a year. When I started using it again I couldn't even open a jar lid, there was just was nothing there
So I know what it's like to be weak but as soon as I could work out regularly in the gym that was the best day of my life
So when I advise you all who think a Z6 is heavy, because you are in a position to actually think that, well you do need to get to the gym and get strong enough that the 1 1/2 lb Z6 + lens feels really light, like it does to me. I hardly even feel it when carrying it in my hands (alternating right and left)
Doesn't matter if you're older than dirt, you can always get stronger. Maybe I'm lucky in that regard, I truly like lifting heavy things which I know isn't for everyone
michaeladawson
Forum Pro
We're really thinking the same thing. I'd like a camera like the A7CR as well. I'm not switching to Sony to get one. Will Nikon make something similar in a Z3 or Z4? Maybe. But I'm not going to hold my breath for one. And I'm not going to complain about Nikon cameras being too big if they don't make one.This exists already though for the most part albeit slightly heavier, size wise it slips into similar small space -- The Sony A7CR (even better specs than z7ii, and pop a small prime on it like the Zeiss 35mm 2.8.
I'd just like Nikon to also produce something smaller with smaller lenses.
I had the X-E3 also (and X-E2), thinking about buying another one but Fuji prices have gone through the roof.
But then there's the issue of lenses. I don't think Nikon is ever going to make a set of small lenses that would pair well with an A7C sized camera. And without smaller lenses a smaller body is rather pointless. Sigma's latest f/2 lenses for E-mount would be great if they come out for Nikon Z.
--
Mike Dawson
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I sold my X-E3 for less almost 4 years ago than what it sells for NOW.This exists already though for the most part albeit slightly heavier, size wise it slips into similar small space -- The Sony A7CR (even better specs than z7ii, and pop a small prime on it like the Zeiss 35mm 2.8.I think both sides here are exaggerating. No one needs to go to the gym to carry around a Z7 and a couple lenses. The Z7 and a couple lenses is not a heavy fat camera kit to drag around.It doesn’t mean I want a heavy and fat camera kit to drag around.
And carrying around a Z6 plus some Z lens is a big heavy fat kit? I feel like I've stepped into the twilight zone where carrying anything heavier than one's hand is deemed unaccepatable
I have no issues carrying a Z7, or even Z8, all day long on a sling strap with a 24-120 lens attached. It doesn't mean a lighter and smaller option wouldn't be appreciated.
I love to go out and wander about town with my Fujifilm X-E3 and small f/2 lenses. But I don't take it on serious photo travels because it isn't going to deliver the IQ I want. So I travel with the Z7 or Z8. No big deal.
Would I love something with the same specs as a Z7 II in something the size of the X-E3? I'd love it. But it isn't going to happen and I don't expect it to. And I'm not complaining even if I support the idea of smaller and lighter gear.
I'd just like Nikon to also produce something smaller with smaller lenses.
I had the X-E3 also (and X-E2), thinking about buying another one but Fuji prices have gone through the roof.
toomanycanons
Forum Pro
OK, I can see that. But this thread was started with the word "heavier" in the opening paragraphsThose that want smaller gear don’t necessarily care about the weight, it’s the dimensions. I have no issues working with the Z8 and telephoto lenses. However when I’m traveling or shooting street, I want something smaller and inconspicuous.Was the skinniest guy in my crew and just wanted to get stronger
I never got big, really, just stronger. Then I started working as a carpenter framing homes and that will get your arms and hands strong but I still lifted because, well, I liked it
I never went through a stage where the docs said "you need to get fitter, go to the gym, doctors orders", I've always worked out in a gym and stayed fit and stronger than the next guy my size
Anyway, I realize a very small percentage of the population works out in a gym and as such their strength just never improves and basically declines over time. What was once liftable (moving a couch maybe) becomes impossible
I broke my right wrist once and couldn't use my right hand for a year. When I started using it again I couldn't even open a jar lid, there was just was nothing there
So I know what it's like to be weak but as soon as I could work out regularly in the gym that was the best day of my life
So when I advise you all who think a Z6 is heavy, because you are in a position to actually think that, well you do need to get to the gym and get strong enough that the 1 1/2 lb Z6 + lens feels really light, like it does to me. I hardly even feel it when carrying it in my hands (alternating right and left)
Doesn't matter if you're older than dirt, you can always get stronger. Maybe I'm lucky in that regard, I truly like lifting heavy things which I know isn't for everyone
Last edited:
Another thing that may be different between you and I is that I only have one Z body and I have 4 Nikon DSLR's that I use regularly, so it actually benefits me more to own AF-S lenses which work on all 5 bodies vs Z lenses that only work on one of my camera bodies. I don't fuss about it, but Nikon did Nikon dslr users a disservice by changing the mount to something that cannot work both ways.
starbase218
Senior Member
Honestly, I think the only disservice is that there is no adapter with screwdrive AF support. Like, mirrorless allows for slimmer cameras by having a smaller flange distance. That’s one of the advantages. The adapter is just a way to restore the F-mount flange distance (and of course, translate the signals). The only thing is that the sensor in the Z bodies is mounted more forward in the first place. If you then increase the flange distance to make it F-mount compatible, you end up with a thicker overall camera.Another thing that may be different between you and I is that I only have one Z body and I have 4 Nikon DSLR's that I use regularly, so it actually benefits me more to own AF-S lenses which work on all 5 bodies vs Z lenses that only work on one of my camera bodies. I don't fuss about it, but Nikon did Nikon dslr users a disservice by changing the mount to something that cannot work both ways.
Like Canon did when it switched to the EF mount in 1987, users of older Canon mount lenses were left behind. Canon did this because it saw that its plans for future cameras and technologies required a mount change - and history has proved them right.Honestly, I think the only disservice is that there is no adapter with screwdrive AF support. Like, mirrorless allows for slimmer cameras by having a smaller flange distance. That’s one of the advantages. The adapter is just a way to restore the F-mount flange distance (and of course, translate the signals). The only thing is that the sensor in the Z bodies is mounted more forward in the first place. If you then increase the flange distance to make it F-mount compatible, you end up with a thicker overall camera.Another thing that may be different between you and I is that I only have one Z body and I have 4 Nikon DSLR's that I use regularly, so it actually benefits me more to own AF-S lenses which work on all 5 bodies vs Z lenses that only work on one of my camera bodies. I don't fuss about it, but Nikon did Nikon dslr users a disservice by changing the mount to something that cannot work both ways.
Nikon did likewise with the Z-mount. It felt it needed a more accommodating mount for the advanced optical designs it wanted to market and that were needed for it to keep it position among the top suppliers of lenses. This also was an opportunity to FINALLY create an all-electronic lens mount that dispensed with mechanical connections - something they had already done with the Nikon 1 system, and something needed for high-performing video. In essence, the weight of legacy support was drowning progress.
Nikon DSLR body owners are definitely left out in the cold if they want to use Z lenses - but Nikon F-mount lens owners in the main can ease their transition to Z-mount through the FTZ adapter. And that's what Nikon wants - for everyone to transition to Z.
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I’d say this pretty much sums it up. Though it can be about both the weight and dimensions.Those that want smaller gear don’t necessarily care about the weight, it’s the dimensions. I have no issues working with the Z8 and telephoto lenses. However when I’m traveling or shooting street, I want something smaller and inconspicuous.
The thing is that an A7c with the 40 2.5 attached weighs as much as a Z5/Z6 II, body only. Similar with the R8. It means compromises, yes, but there are obviously people willing to make them. Currently Nikon has no offer in this market segment.
I don‘t mean that as a complain at all, but rather as a room for Nikon to grow into, and to do it the Nikon way. It is always nice to have more options as a user.
For my particular niche of compact landscape photography I'd love something like the A7CR from Nikon. Even "just" a 45MP version.
That said, I kind of think that's probably a small market niche and Nikon has better things to focus their efforts on.
At a minimum I hope that a Z7III is in the works and that it doesn't bloat like the Z6III and doesn't sacrifice ultimate IQ in favor of fast shooting the way the Z6III does. Don't get me wrong, I think the Z6III and its compromises was exactly the right thing for Nikon to do for that product line, but the Z7 line is something different.
I just checked some of the prices and you are right - insane. So many of my older cameras are worth more now than what I originally paid for them - X100S, XT2, XT30 - and even small compacts like Panasonic Lumix or Canon ELPH are worth a lot nowI sold my X-E3 for less almost 4 years ago than what it sells for NOW.This exists already though for the most part albeit slightly heavier, size wise it slips into similar small space -- The Sony A7CR (even better specs than z7ii, and pop a small prime on it like the Zeiss 35mm 2.8.I think both sides here are exaggerating. No one needs to go to the gym to carry around a Z7 and a couple lenses. The Z7 and a couple lenses is not a heavy fat camera kit to drag around.It doesn’t mean I want a heavy and fat camera kit to drag around.
And carrying around a Z6 plus some Z lens is a big heavy fat kit? I feel like I've stepped into the twilight zone where carrying anything heavier than one's hand is deemed unaccepatable
I have no issues carrying a Z7, or even Z8, all day long on a sling strap with a 24-120 lens attached. It doesn't mean a lighter and smaller option wouldn't be appreciated.
I love to go out and wander about town with my Fujifilm X-E3 and small f/2 lenses. But I don't take it on serious photo travels because it isn't going to deliver the IQ I want. So I travel with the Z7 or Z8. No big deal.
Would I love something with the same specs as a Z7 II in something the size of the X-E3? I'd love it. But it isn't going to happen and I don't expect it to. And I'm not complaining even if I support the idea of smaller and lighter gear.
I'd just like Nikon to also produce something smaller with smaller lenses.
I had the X-E3 also (and X-E2), thinking about buying another one but Fuji prices have gone through the roof.
I think Nikon is watching sales trends and realizes there is a demand for compact, high quality (but not perfect 'S'), stylish lenses. All they have to do is look at the 28 2.8 and 40 2.0. They make two versions of each - one is their standard, black, basic look and one is the "SE" with a retro look, silver accents, and textured grip.
The basic one was originally positioned at $299, or $10 less than the SE at $309. But the basic one is almost always on sale for $70 off to $229 USD, indicating everyone was buying the SE. This means that the SE now costs $80 more (or 35%). We know the cost is about the same for both, so hopefully Nikon realizes the demand for not just good lenses, but good looking lenses.
I hope they launch some more compact SE lenses with aperture rings - both primes and small zooms, as the 28 2.8 and 40 2.0 are such fun lenses. I never go anywhere without them being with me as they take up nearly no space.
The basic one was originally positioned at $299, or $10 less than the SE at $309. But the basic one is almost always on sale for $70 off to $229 USD, indicating everyone was buying the SE. This means that the SE now costs $80 more (or 35%). We know the cost is about the same for both, so hopefully Nikon realizes the demand for not just good lenses, but good looking lenses.
I hope they launch some more compact SE lenses with aperture rings - both primes and small zooms, as the 28 2.8 and 40 2.0 are such fun lenses. I never go anywhere without them being with me as they take up nearly no space.
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