I finally made the change

Tom Caldwell said:

bluevellet said:

Tom Caldwell said:

IBIS sells and Olympus built their business on it - but now "everybrand" has IBIS and only those rusted into Olympus/OMS see it as a particular brand advantage any more.

Click to expand...

But Olympus is still the only brand who makes it standard. All their cameras have it. I know, not the same as exclusivity but it's still something.

The other brands keep the feature as a premium. No IBIS for XA5, A6100, Z fc, GF10 or R100 owners.

I don't think the feature is that essential, I still use cameras without it, but it is nice to have nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Dinna ferget the puir wee G100/D without IBIS and struggling to exist .....

Your comments are refreshing - others seem to think that without IBIS photography is useless. "No IBIS" = "dealbreaker".

Such is the power of how hard IBIS has been promoted.

Myself I can manage without IBIS, OIS is also nice, but I can manage without it as well. However I am not adverse to having and using any stabilisation system that is offered. That extends to fast lenses as fast shutter speeds are in effect just another way of stabilising a shooting platform.

The tripod and flash - the darlings of the film camera user have been relegated to very occasional use by alternate mechanical stabilisation methods. With a nod to better lenses.

Photography is a melange of settings and making it easier for photographers but when learned skill sets are increasingly seen as unnecessary then where is the fun/joy of crafting an image?

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell said:

bluevellet said:

Tom Caldwell said:

IBIS sells and Olympus built their business on it - but now "everybrand" has IBIS and only those rusted into Olympus/OMS see it as a particular brand advantage any more.

Click to expand...

But Olympus is still the only brand who makes it standard. All their cameras have it. I know, not the same as exclusivity but it's still something.

The other brands keep the feature as a premium. No IBIS for XA5, A6100, Z fc, GF10 or R100 owners.

I don't think the feature is that essential, I still use cameras without it, but it is nice to have nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Dinna ferget the puir wee G100/D without IBIS and struggling to exist .....

Your comments are refreshing - others seem to think that without IBIS photography is useless.

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell said:

"No IBIS" = "dealbreaker".

Such is the power of how hard IBIS has been promoted.

Myself I can manage without IBIS, OIS is also nice, but I can manage without it as well. However I am not adverse to having and using any stabilisation system that is offered. That extends to fast lenses as fast shutter speeds are in effect just another way of stabilising a shooting platform.

The tripod and flash - the darlings of the film camera user have been relegated to very occasional use by alternate mechanical stabilisation methods. With a nod to better lenses.

Photography is a melange of settings and making it easier for photographers but when learned skill sets are increasingly seen as unnecessary then where is the fun/joy of crafting an image?

--
Tom Caldwell

Click to expand...

Cafe Racer said:

Tom Caldwell said:

bluevellet said:

Tom Caldwell said:

IBIS sells and Olympus built their business on it - but now "everybrand" has IBIS and only those rusted into Olympus/OMS see it as a particular brand advantage any more.

Click to expand...

But Olympus is still the only brand who makes it standard. All their cameras have it. I know, not the same as exclusivity but it's still something.

The other brands keep the feature as a premium. No IBIS for XA5, A6100, Z fc, GF10 or R100 owners.

I don't think the feature is that essential, I still use cameras without it, but it is nice to have nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Dinna ferget the puir wee G100/D without IBIS and struggling to exist .....

Your comments are refreshing - others seem to think that without IBIS photography is useless.

Click to expand...

There are people that seem to think that anyone that isn't interested in buying a G100/D because it doesn't have IBIS, must therefore believe that without IBIS photography is useless.

Cafe Racer said:

"No IBIS" = "dealbreaker".

Such is the power of how hard IBIS has been promoted.

Myself I can manage without IBIS, OIS is also nice, but I can manage without it as well. However I am not adverse to having and using any stabilisation system that is offered. That extends to fast lenses as fast shutter speeds are in effect just another way of stabilising a shooting platform.

The tripod and flash - the darlings of the film camera user have been relegated to very occasional use by alternate mechanical stabilisation methods. With a nod to better lenses.

Photography is a melange of settings and making it easier for photographers but when learned skill sets are increasingly seen as unnecessary then where is the fun/joy of crafting an image?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Sonyshine said:

Yes. You can learn Olympus menus, and I did.

But it's the button layout and menus of Panasonic cameras that is so intuitive and therefore easy to master quickly..

Click to expand...

There is no lack of depth in Panasonic menus. The touch screen interface makes trawling through them easy. The great menu system has been improved to locate like-type items in sub-sections. Furthermore Panasonic has always allowed the last item accessed in every sub-menu to be remembered. Not only a handy tool when just testing how we might like to set up a function. But can be pressed into an effective temporary extra function key first accessing it on a photographic session. Any press of the menu key after first access will return you to the selected function until you access another somewhere else. But even if you change sub-menus the last item accessed there is still remembered.

If this is a bother then you can set the memory function = off.

Click to expand...

Hmmm….i know the function you describe…and like it….but where can you turn it ‘OFF”? I cannot find that on G9ii. I can set it to always open on ‘My Menu’ (set on 4 page ‘Edit My Menu’ of My Menu)

Click to expand...

Well it is there somewhere. When I get a new camera body I tend to spend a happy half hour going through every menu item setting it up to my preferred standard. Then I can mostly forget the bulk of the menu settings for the lifetime of the camera body.

We all now how dense (complex) camera bodies and their menus have become. Camera manufacturers have been forced to structure their menus into sections rather than simply tack new functions on to the end of an ever increasing list.

Just had a walk through my G9II menu and could not find the setting. So I went back to basics as far as the GM5 and found it as "Menu Resume" under the tools (spanner) sub-menu. I wonder if Panasonic has made this facility into a permanently-on setting?

I cannot think of a situation where I would prefer to have it set to "off".

Click to expand...

I think it is permanent (I also looked before I asked). Even if you set My Menu=on…it will return to the last My Menu position used. If you go to another high level folder, the last position used will come up. Actually, quite nice. While setting up, I set MyM=off to return to last full menu position…while using camera, MyM=ON.

Click to expand...

tomhongkong said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Sonyshine said:

Yes. You can learn Olympus menus, and I did.

But it's the button layout and menus of Panasonic cameras that is so intuitive and therefore easy to master quickly..

Click to expand...

There is no lack of depth in Panasonic menus. The touch screen interface makes trawling through them easy. The great menu system has been improved to locate like-type items in sub-sections. Furthermore Panasonic has always allowed the last item accessed in every sub-menu to be remembered. Not only a handy tool when just testing how we might like to set up a function. But can be pressed into an effective temporary extra function key first accessing it on a photographic session. Any press of the menu key after first access will return you to the selected function until you access another somewhere else. But even if you change sub-menus the last item accessed there is still remembered.

If this is a bother then you can set the memory function = off.

Click to expand...

That’s how my O M-1 works. I think my EM1 I was the same but forget

Click to expand...

tomhongkong said:

tom

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell said:

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Sonyshine said:

Yes. You can learn Olympus menus, and I did.

But it's the button layout and menus of Panasonic cameras that is so intuitive and therefore easy to master quickly..

Click to expand...

There is no lack of depth in Panasonic menus. The touch screen interface makes trawling through them easy. The great menu system has been improved to locate like-type items in sub-sections. Furthermore Panasonic has always allowed the last item accessed in every sub-menu to be remembered. Not only a handy tool when just testing how we might like to set up a function. But can be pressed into an effective temporary extra function key first accessing it on a photographic session. Any press of the menu key after first access will return you to the selected function until you access another somewhere else. But even if you change sub-menus the last item accessed there is still remembered.

If this is a bother then you can set the memory function = off.

Click to expand...

Hmmm….i know the function you describe…and like it….but where can you turn it ‘OFF”? I cannot find that on G9ii. I can set it to always open on ‘My Menu’ (set on 4 page ‘Edit My Menu’ of My Menu)

Click to expand...

Well it is there somewhere. When I get a new camera body I tend to spend a happy half hour going through every menu item setting it up to my preferred standard. Then I can mostly forget the bulk of the menu settings for the lifetime of the camera body.

We all now how dense (complex) camera bodies and their menus have become. Camera manufacturers have been forced to structure their menus into sections rather than simply tack new functions on to the end of an ever increasing list.

Just had a walk through my G9II menu and could not find the setting. So I went back to basics as far as the GM5 and found it as "Menu Resume" under the tools (spanner) sub-menu. I wonder if Panasonic has made this facility into a permanently-on setting?

I cannot think of a situation where I would prefer to have it set to "off".

Click to expand...

I think it is permanent (I also looked before I asked). Even if you set My Menu=on…it will return to the last My Menu position used. If you go to another high level folder, the last position used will come up. Actually, quite nice. While setting up, I set MyM=off to return to last full menu position…while using camera, MyM=ON.

Click to expand...

As mentioned - with a bit of ingenuity the return to last position could be used as a temporary extra function key when needing it for a not often used purpose. But with the surfeit of customisation available these days I have not really found any necessity to use this facility. Just mentioning it more as a curiosity.

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell said:

tomhongkong said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Sonyshine said:

Yes. You can learn Olympus menus, and I did.

But it's the button layout and menus of Panasonic cameras that is so intuitive and therefore easy to master quickly..

Click to expand...

There is no lack of depth in Panasonic menus. The touch screen interface makes trawling through them easy. The great menu system has been improved to locate like-type items in sub-sections. Furthermore Panasonic has always allowed the last item accessed in every sub-menu to be remembered. Not only a handy tool when just testing how we might like to set up a function. But can be pressed into an effective temporary extra function key first accessing it on a photographic session. Any press of the menu key after first access will return you to the selected function until you access another somewhere else. But even if you change sub-menus the last item accessed there is still remembered.

If this is a bother then you can set the memory function = off.

Click to expand...

That’s how my O M-1 works. I think my EM1 I was the same but forget

Click to expand...

Menu systems march on and I am in a time-warp with my E-M1. When I bought it there was no position-remembered memory and testing out a function was a bit of a trial. Then a firmware update allowed just a single last position to be remembered. That was a really good help.

Panasonic remembered the last position in every sub-menu which took it a step further - but it had to be switched on by a toggle.

But as far as my good friend and I can work out this optional toggle has been removed in at least the G9II and now it is permanently switched off. I scratch my head in wonder about whether there is any merit in it being set to off. So there is not a lot of angst in removing one option setting from the ever more cluttered menus of the latest camera bodies.

Tom Caldwell said:

tom

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell said:

Some of us might be so nostalgic to pine for the days of MF film capture when even slr bodies were simple to use and much more difficult to use well. The days when serious photography had to deal with the considerable expense of film and its processing.

Trendy for mostly young(ish) people to try out some film photography but somehow I am not so sure that it will turn into a life-long dedication.

Stability for film capture had tripod, flash and fast shutter speed - the latter function has never gone away. Unlike IBIS/OIS a fast shutter speed can cope with a certain higher level of motion blur as well.

But of course I am like everyone else - it modern digital photography offers me any capture facilitating advantages then I will happily use them.

However if the camera in hand does not offer IBIS then I guess I can manage with OIS, fast shutter speed, higher ISO levels, or even resort back to a tripod.

I guess we will always do our best with whatever tools we have in our hand.

Click to expand...

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Sonyshine said:

Yes. You can learn Olympus menus, and I did.

But it's the button layout and menus of Panasonic cameras that is so intuitive and therefore easy to master quickly..

Click to expand...

There is no lack of depth in Panasonic menus. The touch screen interface makes trawling through them easy. The great menu system has been improved to locate like-type items in sub-sections. Furthermore Panasonic has always allowed the last item accessed in every sub-menu to be remembered. Not only a handy tool when just testing how we might like to set up a function. But can be pressed into an effective temporary extra function key first accessing it on a photographic session. Any press of the menu key after first access will return you to the selected function until you access another somewhere else. But even if you change sub-menus the last item accessed there is still remembered.

If this is a bother then you can set the memory function = off.

Click to expand...

Hmmm….i know the function you describe…and like it….but where can you turn it ‘OFF”? I cannot find that on G9ii. I can set it to always open on ‘My Menu’ (set on 4 page ‘Edit My Menu’ of My Menu)

Click to expand...

Well it is there somewhere. When I get a new camera body I tend to spend a happy half hour going through every menu item setting it up to my preferred standard. Then I can mostly forget the bulk of the menu settings for the lifetime of the camera body.

We all now how dense (complex) camera bodies and their menus have become. Camera manufacturers have been forced to structure their menus into sections rather than simply tack new functions on to the end of an ever increasing list.

Just had a walk through my G9II menu and could not find the setting. So I went back to basics as far as the GM5 and found it as "Menu Resume" under the tools (spanner) sub-menu. I wonder if Panasonic has made this facility into a permanently-on setting?

I cannot think of a situation where I would prefer to have it set to "off".

Click to expand...

I think it is permanent (I also looked before I asked). Even if you set My Menu=on…it will return to the last My Menu position used. If you go to another high level folder, the last position used will come up. Actually, quite nice. While setting up, I set MyM=off to return to last full menu position…while using camera, MyM=ON.

Click to expand...

As mentioned - with a bit of ingenuity the return to last position could be used as a temporary extra function key when needing it for a not often used purpose. But with the surfeit of customisation available these days I have not really found any necessity to use this facility. Just mentioning it more as a curiosity.

Click to expand...

I agree. However, the option to always go to ‘My Menu’, no matter where last you were in the menus is, kind of, like an extra function key.

Click to expand...

jrsforums said:

Tom Caldwell said:

tomhongkong said:

Tom Caldwell said:

Sonyshine said:

Yes. You can learn Olympus menus, and I did.

But it's the button layout and menus of Panasonic cameras that is so intuitive and therefore easy to master quickly..

Click to expand...

There is no lack of depth in Panasonic menus. The touch screen interface makes trawling through them easy. The great menu system has been improved to locate like-type items in sub-sections. Furthermore Panasonic has always allowed the last item accessed in every sub-menu to be remembered. Not only a handy tool when just testing how we might like to set up a function. But can be pressed into an effective temporary extra function key first accessing it on a photographic session. Any press of the menu key after first access will return you to the selected function until you access another somewhere else. But even if you change sub-menus the last item accessed there is still remembered.

If this is a bother then you can set the memory function = off.

Click to expand...

That’s how my O M-1 works. I think my EM1 I was the same but forget

Click to expand...

Menu systems march on and I am in a time-warp with my E-M1. When I bought it there was no position-remembered memory and testing out a function was a bit of a trial. Then a firmware update allowed just a single last position to be remembered. That was a really good help.

Panasonic remembered the last position in every sub-menu which took it a step further - but it had to be switched on by a toggle.

But as far as my good friend and I can work out this optional toggle has been removed in at least the G9II and now it is permanently switched off. I scratch my head in wonder about whether there is any merit in it being set to off. So there is not a lot of angst in removing one option setting from the ever more cluttered menus of the latest camera bodies.

jrsforums said:

tom

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Either I am misreading you or we are talking about different things.

if I turn ‘Display from My Menu’ to OFF, my G9ii menus work as you described. That is, it will go directly to last item selected….and it will also remember the submenu positions of other folders. If ‘Disply from MY Menu’ is ON, it will always return to last My Menu used….HOWEVER, it still remembers the submenu positions in the other folders.

Click to expand...

ahaslett said:

Cafe Racer said:

Tom Caldwell said:

bluevellet said:

Tom Caldwell said:

IBIS sells and Olympus built their business on it - but now "everybrand" has IBIS and only those rusted into Olympus/OMS see it as a particular brand advantage any more.

Click to expand...

But Olympus is still the only brand who makes it standard. All their cameras have it. I know, not the same as exclusivity but it's still something.

The other brands keep the feature as a premium. No IBIS for XA5, A6100, Z fc, GF10 or R100 owners.

I don't think the feature is that essential, I still use cameras without it, but it is nice to have nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Dinna ferget the puir wee G100/D without IBIS and struggling to exist .....

Your comments are refreshing - others seem to think that without IBIS photography is useless.

Click to expand...

There are people that seem to think that anyone that isn't interested in buying a G100/D because it doesn't have IBIS, must therefore believe that without IBIS photography is useless.

ahaslett said:

"No IBIS" = "dealbreaker".

Such is the power of how hard IBIS has been promoted.

Myself I can manage without IBIS, OIS is also nice, but I can manage without it as well. However I am not adverse to having and using any stabilisation system that is offered. That extends to fast lenses as fast shutter speeds are in effect just another way of stabilising a shooting platform.

The tripod and flash - the darlings of the film camera user have been relegated to very occasional use by alternate mechanical stabilisation methods. With a nod to better lenses.

Photography is a melange of settings and making it easier for photographers but when learned skill sets are increasingly seen as unnecessary then where is the fun/joy of crafting an image?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I can manage without AF, IS, lots of DR, subject recognition, in camera jpeg production, a viewfinder, electronic lens connection, flash, lots of fancy buttons and wheels…

I draw the line at having to use a separate meter.

There are times when I value all of these.

Should I been criticising others who won’t buy kit that doesn’t meet enough of their needs? In my experience, high performers in any field will exploit any tool or advantage they can.

I feel a rant coming on about all the ISO obsessed jpeg shooters who prevent camera manufacturers developing proper exposure management tools.

Well maybe not…

Photography is about light, subject engagement, capturing images and processing them to a picture.

Click to expand...

Cafe Racer said:

ahaslett said:

Cafe Racer said:

Tom Caldwell said:

bluevellet said:

Tom Caldwell said:

IBIS sells and Olympus built their business on it - but now "everybrand" has IBIS and only those rusted into Olympus/OMS see it as a particular brand advantage any more.

Click to expand...

But Olympus is still the only brand who makes it standard. All their cameras have it. I know, not the same as exclusivity but it's still something.

The other brands keep the feature as a premium. No IBIS for XA5, A6100, Z fc, GF10 or R100 owners.

I don't think the feature is that essential, I still use cameras without it, but it is nice to have nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Dinna ferget the puir wee G100/D without IBIS and struggling to exist .....

Your comments are refreshing - others seem to think that without IBIS photography is useless.

Click to expand...

There are people that seem to think that anyone that isn't interested in buying a G100/D because it doesn't have IBIS, must therefore believe that without IBIS photography is useless.

Cafe Racer said:

"No IBIS" = "dealbreaker".

Such is the power of how hard IBIS has been promoted.

Myself I can manage without IBIS, OIS is also nice, but I can manage without it as well. However I am not adverse to having and using any stabilisation system that is offered. That extends to fast lenses as fast shutter speeds are in effect just another way of stabilising a shooting platform.

The tripod and flash - the darlings of the film camera user have been relegated to very occasional use by alternate mechanical stabilisation methods. With a nod to better lenses.

Photography is a melange of settings and making it easier for photographers but when learned skill sets are increasingly seen as unnecessary then where is the fun/joy of crafting an image?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I can manage without AF, IS, lots of DR, subject recognition, in camera jpeg production, a viewfinder, electronic lens connection, flash, lots of fancy buttons and wheels…

I draw the line at having to use a separate meter.

There are times when I value all of these.

Should I been criticising others who won’t buy kit that doesn’t meet enough of their needs? In my experience, high performers in any field will exploit any tool or advantage they can.

I feel a rant coming on about all the ISO obsessed jpeg shooters who prevent camera manufacturers developing proper exposure management tools.

Well maybe not…

Photography is about light, subject engagement, capturing images and processing them to a picture.

Click to expand...

People will decide what features they want in a camera. If someone wants a micro 4/3rds camera that offers IBIS then the G100/D is unlikely to be on their shortlist. This says nothing about their level of photographic knowledge or why they would like IBIS as an option. The suggestion that people who don't want the G100/D due to the lack of IBIS are likely to believe that without IBIS photography is useless, sounds like wilful ignorance and a cynical attempt to influence people's decision making.

Click to expand...

Tom Caldwell said:

I like my dramatic skies - you did well with that one ....

Click to expand...

ahaslett said:

Cafe Racer said:

ahaslett said:

Cafe Racer said:

Tom Caldwell said:

bluevellet said:

Tom Caldwell said:

IBIS sells and Olympus built their business on it - but now "everybrand" has IBIS and only those rusted into Olympus/OMS see it as a particular brand advantage any more.

Click to expand...

But Olympus is still the only brand who makes it standard. All their cameras have it. I know, not the same as exclusivity but it's still something.

The other brands keep the feature as a premium. No IBIS for XA5, A6100, Z fc, GF10 or R100 owners.

I don't think the feature is that essential, I still use cameras without it, but it is nice to have nonetheless.

Click to expand...

Dinna ferget the puir wee G100/D without IBIS and struggling to exist .....

Your comments are refreshing - others seem to think that without IBIS photography is useless.

Click to expand...

There are people that seem to think that anyone that isn't interested in buying a G100/D because it doesn't have IBIS, must therefore believe that without IBIS photography is useless.

ahaslett said:

"No IBIS" = "dealbreaker".

Such is the power of how hard IBIS has been promoted.

Myself I can manage without IBIS, OIS is also nice, but I can manage without it as well. However I am not adverse to having and using any stabilisation system that is offered. That extends to fast lenses as fast shutter speeds are in effect just another way of stabilising a shooting platform.

The tripod and flash - the darlings of the film camera user have been relegated to very occasional use by alternate mechanical stabilisation methods. With a nod to better lenses.

Photography is a melange of settings and making it easier for photographers but when learned skill sets are increasingly seen as unnecessary then where is the fun/joy of crafting an image?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I can manage without AF, IS, lots of DR, subject recognition, in camera jpeg production, a viewfinder, electronic lens connection, flash, lots of fancy buttons and wheels…

I draw the line at having to use a separate meter.

There are times when I value all of these.

Should I been criticising others who won’t buy kit that doesn’t meet enough of their needs? In my experience, high performers in any field will exploit any tool or advantage they can.

I feel a rant coming on about all the ISO obsessed jpeg shooters who prevent camera manufacturers developing proper exposure management tools.

Well maybe not…

Photography is about light, subject engagement, capturing images and processing them to a picture.

Click to expand...

People will decide what features they want in a camera. If someone wants a micro 4/3rds camera that offers IBIS then the G100/D is unlikely to be on their shortlist. This says nothing about their level of photographic knowledge or why they would like IBIS as an option. The suggestion that people who don't want the G100/D due to the lack of IBIS are likely to believe that without IBIS photography is useless, sounds like wilful ignorance and a cynical attempt to influence people's decision making.

Click to expand...

It seems not everyone shares that view.

Click to expand...

Sonyshine said:

Makes a big difference with long zoom and telephoto lenses, especially in low light.

Certainly not essential with short primes, short telephotos and wide angle lenses or in bright light..

Click to expand...

Member said:

The importance, or not, of IBIS is down to what and how you shoot.

--
Stupidity is far more fascinating than intelligence. Intelligence has its limits...

Click to expand...

Cafe Racer said:

Sonyshine said:

Makes a big difference with long zoom and telephoto lenses, especially in low light.

Certainly not essential with short primes, short telephotos and wide angle lenses or in bright light..

Click to expand...

It can be useful for someone who shoots hand held video with short primes that don't have IS.

Cafe Racer said:

The importance, or not, of IBIS is down to what and how you shoot.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

ahaslett said:

Cafe Racer said:

Sonyshine said:

Makes a big difference with long zoom and telephoto lenses, especially in low light.

Certainly not essential with short primes, short telephotos and wide angle lenses or in bright light..

Click to expand...

It can be useful for someone who shoots hand held video with short primes that don't have IS.

ahaslett said:

The importance, or not, of IBIS is down to what and how you shoot.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Useful for night time city shots where you need enough DoF.

Click to expand...