Zone system focusing

Is there a way to use the zone system on modern Z lenses?

nglow said:

Is there a way to use the zone system on modern Z lenses?

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You are confusing two terms.

The Zone System is an exposure control system invented by Ansel Adams. It is used to determine how much exposure to give a negative, and how to develop that negative to leave shadow and highlight detail. It has nothing to do with focus, so asking if it can be used with a lens doesn’t make sense.

I think what you are asking about is “zone focusing.” That is an archaic term for a system used to allow some focus control with inexpensive cameras. Rather than putting a helical system in a lens, which is expensive but allows continuous changes in focus from minimum focus distance to infinity, manufacturers created a system with a few fixed detents on the lens generally marked with a flower (close-up), a few people (mid-distance), and a mountain (infinity). It was fast, and with an f/8 lens it accomplished “acceptable” focus for anything reasonably close to those distances.

But the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish by using zone focus? What is your use case? There are almost certainly better ways to get the result you want.

For example: if you have a scenario where you are not attending the camera but want to make sure any subject that comes in the frame will be in focus (I.e.: using a Z camera as a trail camera), do this:

• Set the lens to manual focus.
• Set the exposure control to “A” - aperture-priority auto-exposure, and set the focus point (which is used as the metering point for manual focus) where you want it.
• Set an aperture that gives you the depth of field you want so subjects a bit closer or further away from your focus point will also be in focus.
• Set ISO to Auto, and set a minimum shutter speed that keeps motion blur to an acceptable minimum.

Take test shots that help determine that things are set up as you need, and then let the camera do its job.

I hope this helps accomplish your goal, even if it doesn’t answer your specific question.

Do you mean focusing as in your heading or exposure?

Focussing first - shooting at something like f11 in manual focus "reasonable sharpness" might be from 10 to 15 feet.

Before AF this method was popular for quick reaction street photography - as depth of field could be OK without further focussing for anything happening between 10 and 15 feet. It is still often used in manual focus mode for street photographers[hy.

The Zone system usually refers to an exposure system used by some up to about 50 years ago but now rarely used. Reasons for its decline include a digital camera histogram can provide more reliable and more detailed information at the exposure stage than the zone system.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is similar to learning to play a piano - it takes practice to develop skill in either activity.

Thanks for correcting me. Yes I meant zone focusing system.

You may find more information searching hyperfocal technique.

nglow said:

Is there a way to use the zone system on modern Z lenses?

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Because the most Z-lenses have no distance scale setting the focus distance to some value is difficult. Better to use a (adapted) manual focus lens. And you will get A-mode for free

jiberlin said:

nglow said:

Is there a way to use the zone system on modern Z lenses?

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Because the most Z-lenses have no distance scale setting the focus distance to some value is difficult.

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A valid point - though many recent DSLR lenses and especially more affordable zooms either do not include many distances on the scale or do not have a distance scale at all.

One work around when you want to manually focus at 12 feet is to measure the number of paving stones in front of you to a distance of 12 feet and learn to estimate that distance when manual focusing.

nglow said:

Thanks for correcting me. Yes I meant zone focusing system.

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Check out the following link. It does not answer your question directly but it might be very helpful.

nglow said:

Thanks for correcting me. Yes I meant zone focusing system.

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https://www.photopills.com/calculators/dof-table

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/hyperfocal-distance.htm

this may help...

IMO zone focusing is best done with a manual focus lens featuring focus distance markings on its barrel…or in rare cases (Zeiss Batis lenses made for Sony's E mount) a modern lens with an LCD focus distance readout.

The 1970s-era lens shown below has aperture, focus distance and hyperfocal distance markings:



Here's a photo from a couple days ago taken with my own copy of the lens shown above and focused using a zone technique.


40mm lens @ f/11 and focused to ~3.5m.

-Dave-

David Kieltyka said:

IMO zone focusing is best done with a manual focus lens featuring focus distance markings on its barrel…or in rare cases (Zeiss Batis lenses made for Sony's E mount) a modern lens with an LCD focus distance readout.

The 1970s-era lens shown below has aperture, focus distance and hyperfocal distance markings:

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if i'm not mistaken there are a 'focus distance' marking (dot or triangle) and 'Dof' markings (lines corresponding to an f number). to get to an approximate hyperfocal distance, you would move the ring so that instead of your focus distance lining up with the dot (or triangle) it now lines up with the line for your chosen f-number, the line corresponding to the lower/closer limit of your original depth-of-field.

David Kieltyka said:

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buildingsights said:

if i'm not mistaken there are a 'focus distance' marking (dot or triangle) and 'Dof' markings (lines corresponding to an f number). to get to an approximate hyperfocal distance, you would move the ring so that instead of your focus distance lining up with the dot (or triangle) it now lines up with the line for your chosen f-number, the line corresponding to the lower/closer limit of your original depth-of-field.

buildingsights said:

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Yes, though the hyperfocal distance markings are more ballpark guides than precise indicators. Experimenting recommended!

-Dave-

I used zone focus system for years back when that's all I had to go by. And it had nothing to do with exposure.

Today's equipment does not make it easy and almost impossible. As others have said, you can use older lenses with the f stops and the dof markings, but with newer lenses this is not possible. I have used a variation where I estimate the mid point in the dof range and focus on something I judge to be the hyperfocal distance and lock focus manually on that distance and as long as I guessed right it works, but my success ratio is not the best. It helps to use the shortest focal length that will work for the shot with aperture set at the smallest opening you can make do with and use smallest sensor size or crop mode to help in making shorter focal length lenses work. Cell phones work this way much of the time with their huge dof, so they do not have to nail the focus distance to the inch.

Bob A L said:

Today's equipment does not make it easy and almost impossible. As others have said, you can use older lenses with the f stops and the dof markings, but with newer lenses this is not possible. I have used a variation where I estimate the mid point in the dof range and focus on something I judge to be the hyperfocal distance and lock focus manually on that distance and as long as I guessed right it works, but my success ratio is not the best.

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there are various apps for calculating the hyperfocal distance that may help... it has always been a bit of an approximation.

Bob A L said:

It helps to use the shortest focal length that will work for the shot with aperture set at the smallest opening you can make do with and use smallest sensor size or crop mode to help in making shorter focal length lenses work. Cell phones work this way much of the time with their huge dof, so they do not have to nail the focus distance to the inch.

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buildingsights said:

buildingsights said:

I have used a variation where I estimate the mid point in the dof range and focus on something I judge to be the hyperfocal distance and lock focus manually on that distance and as long as I guessed right it works, but my success ratio is not the best.

Click to expand...

there are various apps for calculating the hyperfocal distance that may help... it has always been a bit of an approximation.

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I have dropped the word "system" from the heading to reduce confusion.

Question 1 - what is the aim?

Street photography is currently very much vogue in the UK.

"Street" is primary waiting for something to happen between perhaps 10 and 15 feet, having the camera focused to get these distances in reasonable sharpness (often f11 with a moderate wide angle lens), keeping the camera unobtrusive and pressing the shutter.

Solutions

A hinged rear monitor can help with this, with the camera at waist level and viewing the scene through the monitor.

If you also get used to focusing by pressing appropriate detail on the rear monitor you don't need an old manual focus lens :-D ;-)

Depth of field comments

Depth of a field is based on just enough sharpness to be acceptable at the edges of acceptable depth of field in a 10" x 18 print. This may not be enough for a pixel peepers though it is usually ideal for social media often viewed on a smart phone.

Using hyper focal distance provides just acceptable sharpeness from half the focus distance to the skyline – and is not ideal for street photography.

A focus distance of about 12 feet with a moderate wide-angle at f11 is likely to be okay for acceptable sharpness for a subject between 10 and 15 feet.

Assuming depth of field is split 50% in front and 50% behind the subject is a common misunderstanding. It is only appropriate for very close-up and macro photography. This cannot be done using hyper-focal distance.

Focusing at one third of hyperfocal distance gives depth the field of a quarter of the focused distance in front and half behind the subject – which is where the 33% and 66% split comes from – though it is not right at any other percentage of hyperfocal distance.

Guessing 1/3 sharp in front and 2/3 sharp behind will usually be somewhere near at 12 feet focus distance and f11 with a moderate wide angle lens on 24x36 format.

--
Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is similar to learning to play a piano - it takes practice to develop skill in either activity.

Leonard Shepherd said:

buildingsights said:

Leonard Shepherd said:

I have used a variation where I estimate the mid point in the dof range and focus on something I judge to be the hyperfocal distance and lock focus manually on that distance and as long as I guessed right it works, but my success ratio is not the best.

Click to expand...

there are various apps for calculating the hyperfocal distance that may help... it has always been a bit of an approximation.

Click to expand...

I have dropped the word "system" from the heading to reduce confusion.

Question 1 - what is the aim?

Street photography is currently very much vogue in the UK.

Click to expand...

good info!

i have used similar settings... and sometimes use also f/5.6... risky!

You don't sound like a street photography person. The OP asks a quite legitimate question that has nothing to do with flower petal focus icons and the like on a cheap camera.

Take a manual focusing camera like a Leica or an old Nikon F body. It's not limited to street photography, but a common technique is to set the focus on the lens to about what you estimate the subject distance will be. With a smaller aperture you can get quite a wide acceptable DOF. You can then snap off a bunch of photos and be reasonably sure that you subject is in acceptable focus without ever having to look at your subject to focus.

I won't say it can't be done, but today's focus by wire cameras and lenses are not conducive to this style of shooting. One is basically forced to aim the camera at the desired distance and pre-focus and then hope you don't mistakenly press a wrong button somewhere along the way causing the camera to re-focus.

michaeladawson said:

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I won't say it can't be done, but today's focus by wire cameras and lenses are not conducive to this style of shooting. One is basically forced to aim the camera at the desired distance and pre-focus and then hope you don't mistakenly press a wrong button somewhere along the way causing the camera to re-focus.

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one could set, let's say, the 40mm f/2 SE to manual focus, and you get a little flower symbol in the viewfinder or monitor and an ∞ simbol/icon to help with the distance. easily accessible if one puts it in the 'I' menu. also set the AF-On.

or get a manual Voigtlander 40mm f/1.2 which has communication with the camera ... risky!

I know you have already been "scolded" for using "zone system". But I'll add that zone focusing isn't really a system, but rather just a method. Kind of like the Sunny 16 Rule is not a system, but just a simple method for estimating exposure.

Anyways... I think you've already received enough responses that give a general answer of "no", zone focusing is really not possible with today's focus by wire cameras and lenses that don't have distance scales and DOF guides.

I guess I would ask this question. Not just to you, but everyone. Are there still really good use cases for zone focusing? I'm sure I'll hear a lot of yes responses. The reason I ask, though, is because today's cameras are so fast at autofocus. Is it really any faster to zone focus as opposed to using the advanced focusing system and subject recognition on today's bodies. They're nearly instantaneous these days.

I would also add that today's cameras produce stunningly sharp results. Any slight OOF miss is easily discernible if one cares to pixel peep. Back in the days of film you could get by with a slight focus miss. These days a slight miss is easily seen when carefully examining images.

I'm generally interested in hearing why zone focusing is still a good method today with today's high performance digital cameras.