Is M43 now a niche format?

Everything except a phone is a niche format now.
Totally agree. What is also niche is paint on canvas art, wrist watches and sports cars. Niche activities are not going away. Another way of looking at it, try getting Getti Images to accept one of your phone photos. That would not be easy, at least not yet.
 
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Just curious....... what constitutes a "serious" photographer?
For starters, someone who gets paid for it. After that, well, anyone who takes their hoby seriously and cannot produce the kind of images they want using a phone. I admit, the definition has a lot of flexibility. My own opinion, of course.

Question: do you consider yourself a serious photographer?
Well, while I am serious about my photography, I don’t consider myself a serious photographer in that I don’t do it as a vocation. I have however, been published numerous times and have won awards in competitions, both of which have generated some payment
Like you, I guess I am serious enough to care about the images I create. And I've been published many times, as well. I also shoot events as a volunteer, and have a couple coming up this fall. For my shooting, well, I need a "real" camera. Cell phones don't cut it for surfing. ;-)

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“Surfer” magazine, 2014 “Will tomorrow's best surf photos be taken with a phone?”

“If an image this clean can be shot with an iPhone 5, imagine what future generations will be capable of.” ( https://www.surfer.com/news/surf-iphoneography ).
That image is only 2mp. It's barely usable for anything but tiny prints. I would think that for surfing you would need at least 200mm or more optical zoom.

I will add that I once owned an iPhone 6 and it's IQ was barely usable. My new iPhone is much better
I reduced the image size to save some bandwidth. It was shot with an a6700 and Tamron 150-500 racked out to 500mm.

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---Have camera, will travel.---
 
... I guess I am serious enough to care about the images I create. And I've been published many times, as well. I also shoot events as a volunteer, and have a couple coming up this fall. For my shooting, well, I need a "real" camera. Cell phones don't cut it for surfing. ;-)

69e8a9080402410aabdabd726d02745a.jpg
“Surfer” magazine, 2014 “Will tomorrow's best surf photos be taken with a phone?”

“If an image this clean can be shot with an iPhone 5, imagine what future generations will be capable of.” ( https://www.surfer.com/news/surf-iphoneography ).
That image is only 2mp. It's barely usable for anything but tiny prints. I would think that for surfing you would need at least 200mm or more optical zoom.
The 2MP image shown here was not shot with a phone. It was a 26MP APS-C camera with a 500mm lens. We can be sure the detail is good in the full resolution version.

The images in the article are only fractions of a megapixel, so it's impossible to judge the quality of the details. Also, they were shot from in the water with short focal lengths.
Yes, it was the images in the article I was commenting on. My point being that you can make very compelling surfing images using an iPhone and a POV suited to the phone. You could argue that the limitation wrt focal length actually produces more compelling images (because it makes the photographer be with the surfer) than distant images using a long lens
In order to shoot photos from in the water you need a very consistent break. The areas I shoot have no such luxury, so shooting from shore locations is the only realistic option.
No phone can do what an ILC with a 750mm equivalent lens can do. The inverse is also true, of course, which is why there are both things in the world.
Well, yeah. ;-)

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---Have camera, will travel.---
 
You could argue that the limitation wrt focal length actually produces more compelling images (because it makes the photographer be with the surfer) than distant images using a long lens
LOL, that's a stretch. I wouldn't accept that argument. What do you expect the photographer to do? Take his camera out on a boat or surfboard to be near the surfer? Looking at the size of the waves even a boat would be problematic.
It's common for professional photographers to be in the water with the surfers. Many of the top pros brand themselves by wearing specific colors so the surfers can more easily see them and tell them apart.
 
Mainly interest from existing M4/3 gear owners but eventually whatever popularity is left it will slowly diminish especially without new models introduced .
If I may quote Kamala Harris, "Same old tired playbook...”
We've been hearing about the imminent death of m4/3 for 16 years.
 
As far as M43 being niche..........it's been that way for a long time. IMO, OMDS recognizes this and aims it's marketing accordingly.
I wish Panasonic would, they`ve ditched all the compact M43 cameras bar the G100 and stuffed the G9`s replacement into a bottom end full frame body . No wonder used GX9s, GX80s and even GX800s have gone utterly crazy price wise and forget the GM series, almost Collector prices .
Panasonic didn't ditch the compacts, camera buyers did.
 
As far as M43 being niche..........it's been that way for a long time. IMO, OMDS recognizes this and aims it's marketing accordingly.
I wish Panasonic would, they`ve ditched all the compact M43 cameras bar the G100 and stuffed the G9`s replacement into a bottom end full frame body . No wonder used GX9s, GX80s and even GX800s have gone utterly crazy price wise and forget the GM series, almost Collector prices .
Panasonic didn't ditch the compacts, camera buyers did.
But think about... if you don't update your products with relevant tech present on competing devices (which got the preference on the market), you are literally ditching your products.

Of course there are technical limitations but compact cameras were quite abandoned on relevant tech which is what a big bulk of the market want, and find on smarthphones. That can't be ignored too.

And I think that is unfortunate, I see advantages and would prefer compact cameras would still be there strongly.

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/11117239@N08/
 
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And I think that is unfortunate, I see advantages and would prefer compact cameras would still be there strongly.
Compact cameras still have a strong presence in the used market. Contrary to earlier fears, digital compacts have turned out to be fairly long-lasting. Of course repair is a problem, but in the lower price bands, replacement costs the same as repair.
 
As far as M43 being niche..........it's been that way for a long time. IMO, OMDS recognizes this and aims it's marketing accordingly.
I wish Panasonic would, they`ve ditched all the compact M43 cameras bar the G100 and stuffed the G9`s replacement into a bottom end full frame body . No wonder used GX9s, GX80s and even GX800s have gone utterly crazy price wise and forget the GM series, almost Collector prices .
Panasonic didn't ditch the compacts, camera buyers did.
But think about... if you don't update your products with relevant tech present on competing devices (which got the preference on the market), you are literally ditching your products.

Of course there are technical limitations but compact cameras were quite abandoned on relevant tech which is what a big bulk of the market want, and find on smarthphones. That can't be ignored too.

And I think that is unfortunate, I see advantages and would prefer compact cameras would still be there strongly.
With the advent of the smart phone and its inherent convenience, all cameras, compact or other, were destined for a big market hit. No camera technology was going to thwart that.
 
Very happy with my OM5 plus 12-45/4 for £950, Laowa 10/2 for £410, and used PL 25/4 mk I for £250. Already had the FL-LM3 which has high used prices now.

Very big used lens market in MFT in UK.

I hope the OEMs are focussing on segments where they have competitive advantage, otherwise they will go bust.

Panasonic and OMDS have different users in mind.

OMDS are a bit limited by the sensors that Sony chooses to develop.

A
 
You could argue that the limitation wrt focal length actually produces more compelling images (because it makes the photographer be with the surfer) than distant images using a long lens
LOL, that's a stretch. I wouldn't accept that argument. What do you expect the photographer to do? Take his camera out on a boat or surfboard to be near the surfer? Looking at the size of the waves even a boat would be problematic.
And yet that’s what it appears they’ve done with the iPhone 5, and what I’ve seen the output of people doing using (film) Nikonos
I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm saying it's impractical for 99% of people. It in no way represents a practical solution.
 
You could argue that the limitation wrt focal length actually produces more compelling images (because it makes the photographer be with the surfer) than distant images using a long lens
LOL, that's a stretch. I wouldn't accept that argument. What do you expect the photographer to do? Take his camera out on a boat or surfboard to be near the surfer? Looking at the size of the waves even a boat would be problematic.
It's common for professional photographers to be in the water with the surfers. Many of the top pros brand themselves by wearing specific colors so the surfers can more easily see them and tell them apart.
I'm saying it's impractical for 99% of people. It in no way represents a practical solution and is not a substitute for a lens with a long focal length. It's similar to the old "zoom with your feet" argument.

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Tom
 
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As far as M43 being niche..........it's been that way for a long time. IMO, OMDS recognizes this and aims it's marketing accordingly.
I wish Panasonic would, they`ve ditched all the compact M43 cameras bar the G100 and stuffed the G9`s replacement into a bottom end full frame body . No wonder used GX9s, GX80s and even GX800s have gone utterly crazy price wise and forget the GM series, almost Collector prices .
Panasonic didn't ditch the compacts, camera buyers did.
But think about... if you don't update your products with relevant tech present on competing devices (which got the preference on the market), you are literally ditching your products.

Of course there are technical limitations but compact cameras were quite abandoned on relevant tech which is what a big bulk of the market want, and find on smarthphones. That can't be ignored too.

And I think that is unfortunate, I see advantages and would prefer compact cameras would still be there strongly.
It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation......... but camera companies have more insight into their customers than any of us could, and I'm certain there comes a point where it's clear a segment is no longer worth investing in.

Bear in mind, there was a time the industry was selling 20M ILCs a year, and now they are down to about 5-6. Over that time I'm pretty sure FF at the minimum stayed flat, if not grew in units and def in $$$s. So crop system sales have collapsed by like 80%+. No amount of investment can slow that level of decline, which is exactly why Panasonic launched an FF system and Olympus imaging went bankrupt (IIRC).

Retail is pretty complicated but 9 times out of 10 if a company/industry gives up on a segment it's due to lack of demand. Enthusiasts are stuck in the denial phase of grief. I see it in the other gear/equipment focused hobbies I'm in.
 
I have been leaning towards MFT for the past few years. I have 2 Olympus and 2 Lumix cameras; I use them in addition to other formats, and I don't really see that much difference. I wouldn't complain if that was my only format.
 
I have been leaning towards MFT for the past few years. I have 2 Olympus and 2 Lumix cameras; I use them in addition to other formats, and I don't really see that much difference. I wouldn't complain if that was my only format.
I've used MFT and FE for ten years. I like having wider choices.

In the recent poll, nearly half of the responses were from people with MFT and a larger sensor system. Half were from people with MFT only.

Even if its a set of smaller niches, it still makes sense to some of us. Hopefully enough of us that the OEMs keep developing new gear.

I'd go with FE only, if I had to. Definitely with regrets, but MFT doesn't have the resolution or DR I want for some of my uses. I could live with the primes, but there are a lot more options in FE.

A
 
All dedicated cameras are pretty much done for......
👎

Which will be the end of sports, and wildlife photography and maybe some others as well.

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Tom
 
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As far as M43 being niche..........it's been that way for a long time. IMO, OMDS recognizes this and aims it's marketing accordingly.
I wish Panasonic would, they`ve ditched all the compact M43 cameras bar the G100 and stuffed the G9`s replacement into a bottom end full frame body . No wonder used GX9s, GX80s and even GX800s have gone utterly crazy price wise and forget the GM series, almost Collector prices .
Panasonic didn't ditch the compacts, camera buyers did.
But think about... if you don't update your products with relevant tech present on competing devices (which got the preference on the market), you are literally ditching your products.

Of course there are technical limitations but compact cameras were quite abandoned on relevant tech which is what a big bulk of the market want, and find on smarthphones. That can't be ignored too.

And I think that is unfortunate, I see advantages and would prefer compact cameras would still be there strongly.
It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation......... but camera companies have more insight into their customers than any of us could, and I'm certain there comes a point where it's clear a segment is no longer worth investing in.
and that is the point that many here at DPReview miss, that those companies have an overall view of the situations but individuals mostly only see their own needs/wants and often assuming that those are the same for all other users.
 
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