GM 85 f/1.4 II coming while there is still the rumor of an f/1.0 version

SAR has repeatedly rumored the upcoming GM 85 f/1.4 II

While this lens surely gets the latest and greatest in AF, weight optimizations and probably also a bit smaller and better wether sealing and probably a smaller filter thread while maintaining the great OOF rendering I am still very disappointed with the f/1.4 aperture.

I am pretty sure Sony could easily do f/1.2 - but why should they do that in case they could make a bold statement with a f/1.0 version as this has also been rumored by SAR

Before you say this would be too crazy - we've seen that before with the GM 50 f/1.2 and GM 50 f/1.4 addressing the very same audience with two lenses that do almost the same thing.

Needless to say I went for the GM 50 f/1.2 and I love this lens.

I'd love to have a GM 85 f/1.0 .. 1.2 - the faster the better - especially when computational photography is getting smarter and better every day.

There is nothing better than the real thing - faking the bokeh has gotten so good, that the real thing is quite boring when the computational mimicking is so close that you start to wonder why one should buy a f/1.4 85 mm to start with when the f/1.8 version is already small, lightweight and optically really good - let's just do the rest in post production and let the ML algorithm do the rest - right?

That's where an ultra fast 85 mm lens would definitely shine since mimicking that look would be much harder and the real thing is always a tiny bit better.

For me my current GM 85 will stay in my bag and I will not consider another f/1.4 version since the current one is more than good enough being really sharp with an amazing OOF rendering. That said an ultra fast GM 85 would be an immediate buy for me at any price.

I replaced my GM 85mm f1.4 with the Sigma 85mm f1.4 DG DN some time ago to gain some sharpness at f1.4. In the meantime the rumors of a potential GM 85mm f1.2 have had me salivating. Finding out that it will likely be an f1.4 lens is a real letdown. At least, I have my revered GM 50mm f1.2, my new favorite lens. As a note, I would likely jump on an f1.0 version, irrespective of size and weight.

Personally, I am not a fan of the artificial bokeh performed in post-processing. It looks ridiculously fake on my iPhone 15 and barely passible in Adobe when used in small amounts. I sometime use it as a 'light touch' but much prefer the rendering from a fast lens. I realize that such will likely change with time as AI algorithms are better refined and that I may change my tune.

--
Jeff
Florida, USA
http://www.gr8photography.com

[SNIP]

joger said:

I'd love to have a GM 85 f/1.0 .. 1.2 - the faster the better - especially when computational photography is getting smarter and better every day.

There is nothing better than the real thing - faking the bokeh has gotten so good, that the real thing is quite boring when the computational mimicking is so close that you start to wonder why one should buy a f/1.4 85 mm to start with when the f/1.8 version is already small, lightweight and optically really good - let's just do the rest in post production and let the ML algorithm do the rest - right?

That's where an ultra fast 85 mm lens would definitely shine since mimicking that look would be much harder and the real thing is always a tiny bit better.

Click to expand...

Computational photography is improving at a rapid pace. If you believe it's already good enough to make f/1.4 lenses a questionable investment, then it won't be long before that exact same logic applies to f/1.2 lenses, then f/1.0 lenses.

There's so much more to good photography -- and good photography gear -- than the arms race over bokeh. For me, there's still plenty of reason to invest in an 85mm f/1.4.

Of course, none of that means I wouldn't be taking a nice long look at an 85mm f/1.2 GM ;-)

I'm personally happy. I don't need f1.2, but I love having a lens I can fit in my bag without second-guessing my choice so much.

I think Sony is positioning themselves quite nice, with a set of great f1.4 and f2.8 lenses which remain relatively small, while Canon and Nikon are betting on bigger lenses and cameras, but no f1.4 line-up up to Sony's. Though they have some amazing lenses.

PPierre said:

I'm personally happy. I don't need f1.2, but I love having a lens I can fit in my bag without second-guessing my choice so much.

I think Sony is positioning themselves quite nice, with a set of great f1.4 and f2.8 lenses which remain relatively small, while Canon and Nikon are betting on bigger lenses and cameras, but no f1.4 line-up up to Sony's. Though they have some amazing lenses.

Click to expand...

Tide seems to be turning there, Canon did release the RF 35/1.4 L which seems to compete reasonably well with the GM (I'm actually a little surprised how close they got in weight and size despite the questionable choices on control rings), whereas Nikon just announced an even lighter and marginally smaller 35/1.4 that'll be $600 but not part of the S line, sort of what we'd get for the money from a Samyang or Viltrox on E mount. Nikon will likely still position their top of the line f1.2s above that, for 35mm anyway...

I think Sony absolutely killed it with all their other GM primes from 14 thru 135 and even with the 20G, they're all best in class or near it and some of the lightest/smallest around... We all know they offered a choice at 50 too but I think the fact that the 50/1.4 came second shows it may be the more popular choice... Will be interesting to see what they do at 85mm. I've no dog in that fight tbh, I went for the 20G & 35GM but paired them with Samyang's 75 & 135.

Right now if I wanted a fast 85 I'd probably go with Sigma's, I think most would given that the GM doesn't have an AF advantage, but I do think the GM's rendering is special... It does a couple things the other GMs (135 included) don't. It and the 20G (oddly) probably have less cat's eye than the rest of the GMs, and the 85GM has the smoothest bokeh. I think some fear an all new 85/1.4 formula that prioritizes sharpness and weight might sacrifice that.

Maybe that's where an eventual 85/1.2 comes in, maybe they'll do something crazy like a 105, who knows... I've stopped giving 85GM II rumors any credence since they come and go every couple months and it's always around the corner, but it never is.

PPierre said:

I'm personally happy. I don't need f1.2, but I love having a lens I can fit in my bag without second-guessing my choice so much.

Click to expand...

Photograhy was never about needs but about options - when you photobag to you portraiture shoot can’t accommodate any lens there’s something wrong with you photo bag. Can’t think of any situation where I‘d use such a lens for landscape, architecture or action.

PPierre said:

I think Sony is positioning themselves quite nice, with a set of great f1.4 and f2.8 lenses which remain relatively small, while Canon and Nikon are betting on bigger lenses and cameras, but no f1.4 line-up up to Sony's. Though they have some amazing lenses.

Click to expand...

I am not disputing a line of small and slow lenses. Plus Sony has some really good zooms as well.

The current GM 85 is already a very fine lens - for what it’s designed for - portraiture.

I was actually looking forward to an 85mm f/1.2 - I used the Canon 85/1.2 for a number of years (despite its shortcomings), and I'd like to get Sony's spin on it. I own and use the 50/1.2 GM (possibly my most used lens in the studio), and I was hoping to get that in 85mm (the existing 85mm GM is disappointing by comparison.

If they release an 85mm f/1/4, I'll be disappointed.

I would be concerned about the weight and size of an 85mm f/1.0.

AlephNull said:

I was actually looking forward to an 85mm f/1.2 - I used the Canon 85/1.2 for a number of years (despite its shortcomings), and I'd like to get Sony's spin on it. I own and use the 50/1.2 GM (possibly my most used lens in the studio), and I was hoping to get that in 85mm (the existing 85mm GM is disappointing by comparison.

If they release an 85mm f/1/4, I'll be disappointed.

I would be concerned about the weight and size of an 85mm f/1.0.

Click to expand...

In typical manner it would be probably more a f/1.04

That would translate in a 85 mm filter thread or even less in case the focal length would be a few mm shorter like 83 mm focal length.

I‘d guess something like GM 135 weight
--
__________________________________
... having is better than needing
Einstein on 100 authors against him: It would not have required one hundred authors to prove me wrong, one would have been enough

joger said:

SAR has repeatedly rumored the upcoming GM 85 f/1.4 II

While this lens surely gets the latest and greatest in AF, weight optimizations and probably also a bit smaller and better wether sealing and probably a smaller filter thread while maintaining the great OOF rendering I am still very disappointed with the f/1.4 aperture.

I am pretty sure Sony could easily do f/1.2 - but why should they do that in case they could make a bold statement with a f/1.0 version as this has also been rumored by SAR

Before you say this would be too crazy - we've seen that before with the GM 50 f/1.2 and GM 50 f/1.4 addressing the very same audience with two lenses that do almost the same thing.

Needless to say I went for the GM 50 f/1.2 and I love this lens.

I'd love to have a GM 85 f/1.0 .. 1.2 - the faster the better - especially when computational photography is getting smarter and better every day.

There is nothing better than the real thing - faking the bokeh has gotten so good, that the real thing is quite boring when the computational mimicking is so close that you start to wonder why one should buy a f/1.4 85 mm to start with when the f/1.8 version is already small, lightweight and optically really good - let's just do the rest in post production and let the ML algorithm do the rest - right?

That's where an ultra fast 85 mm lens would definitely shine since mimicking that look would be much harder and the real thing is always a tiny bit better.

For me my current GM 85 will stay in my bag and I will not consider another f/1.4 version since the current one is more than good enough being really sharp with an amazing OOF rendering. That said an ultra fast GM 85 would be an immediate buy for me at any price.

Click to expand...

That 135mm you have is a great lens.

Terry K1 said:

That 135mm you have is a great lens.

Click to expand...

Yes - it is - it‘s probably the best 135 mm lens in existence.

Some samples can be foundhere

Even cropped it beats most zooms ending at 200 mm

But it also offers an attractive size and weight for the rucksack.

BUT the G 70 .. 200 f/4.0 macro is probably ( almost ) as sharp when you can live with f/5.6 - and it offers 1 : 2 macro and the entire zoom range in a really good quality - when I go hiking a rough challenge.

We are really spoilt in the Sony FER mount

--
__________________________________
... having is better than needing
Einstein on 100 authors against him: It would not have required one hundred authors to prove me wrong, one would have been enough

andcertainly improved optical quality

Sony had two choices:

1. 85 1.2GM with no competition, but very expensive lens, big but lot smaller than Sigma 105 1.4 with even better rendering.
2. 85 1.4GMII, perferct fit next to 35 1.4GM and 50 1.4GM compact professional line.

It seems they vote for second option, anyway they can't make everybody satisfied, lot of Aplha users waiting for the updated GM, others are perfectly happy with 85DN.

August 28th

From the outside it looks quite similar - guess the weight difference and the optical improvements could be underwhelming

On the primes side, as a people photographer, I'm a classic 35mm/85mm guy.

Currently I have:

35mm 1.4GM

85mm Sigma 1.4 DGDN

In theory, I should be all over the 85mm 1.4 GMII when it's released. But oddly, I'm not feeling excited.

That's because:

1. The Sigma is a beautifully engineered piece of glass with great IQ.

2. I don't need >15fps for portrait work.

3. I have 70-200mm GMII as a complementary workhorse lens (with 30fps on my A1's if needed)

4. The new Sony is likely to be approaching twice the cost I paid for the Sigma.

What would change my mind?

The new Sony would have to have some secret sauce in the under corrected SA etc for gorgeous rendering and transition wide open - exquitely tuned for portraits basically. BUT it would have to be massively better than the Sigma and especially the original GM.

I know the original GM is cherished for such properties, buts its AF is slow and noisy, and it doesn't have an aperture ring.

joger said:

August 28th

From the outside it looks quite similar - guess the weight difference and the optical improvements could be underwhelming

Click to expand...

Well, for me, the most annoying element of the current 85GM was the laziness of the autofocus. I know lots of people said the Sigma is more sharp but I never had an issue in that department. No magazine ever made a comment about that.

If the GM II is optically improved and has the same bokeh (mainly, round bokeh balls on the sides) and rendering, I will probably even more happy.

ray_burnimage said:

On the primes side, as a people photographer, I'm a classic 35mm/85mm guy.

Currently I have:

35mm 1.4GM

85mm Sigma 1.4 DGDN

In theory, I should be all over the 85mm 1.4 GMII when it's released. But oddly, I'm not feeling excited.

That's because:

1. The Sigma is a beautifully engineered piece of glass with great IQ.

2. I don't need >15fps for portrait work.

3. I have 70-200mm GMII as a complementary workhorse lens (with 30fps on my A1's if needed)

4. The new Sony is likely to be approaching twice the cost I paid for the Sigma.

What would change my mind?

The new Sony would have to have some secret sauce in the under corrected SA etc for gorgeous rendering and transition wide open - exquitely tuned for portraits basically. BUT it would have to be massively better than the Sigma and especially the original GM.

I know the original GM is cherished for such properties, buts its AF is slow and noisy, and it doesn't have an aperture ring.

Click to expand...

Agreed. How's the AF of the Sigma treating you?

From what I've seen Sigma really nailed that 85DN, more so than their 35/50 f1.4, in both IQ, designed trade-offs, and size/weight.

Impulses said:

ray_burnimage said:

On the primes side, as a people photographer, I'm a classic 35mm/85mm guy.

Currently I have:

35mm 1.4GM

85mm Sigma 1.4 DGDN

In theory, I should be all over the 85mm 1.4 GMII when it's released. But oddly, I'm not feeling excited.

That's because:

1. The Sigma is a beautifully engineered piece of glass with great IQ.

2. I don't need >15fps for portrait work.

3. I have 70-200mm GMII as a complementary workhorse lens (with 30fps on my A1's if needed)

4. The new Sony is likely to be approaching twice the cost I paid for the Sigma.

What would change my mind?

The new Sony would have to have some secret sauce in the under corrected SA etc for gorgeous rendering and transition wide open - exquitely tuned for portraits basically. BUT it would have to be massively better than the Sigma and especially the original GM.

I know the original GM is cherished for such properties, buts its AF is slow and noisy, and it doesn't have an aperture ring.

Click to expand...

Agreed. How's the AF of the Sigma treating you?

From what I've seen Sigma really nailed that 85DN, more so than their 35/50 f1.4, in both IQ, designed trade-offs, and size/weight.

Click to expand...

I've found the AF to be fast and accurate. But, to be clear, I use it for headshots and the like on A1 bodies.

I didn't choose it for tracking or >15fps. I have other lenses for that.....

ray_burnimage said:

Impulses said:

ray_burnimage said:

On the primes side, as a people photographer, I'm a classic 35mm/85mm guy.

Currently I have:

35mm 1.4GM

85mm Sigma 1.4 DGDN

In theory, I should be all over the 85mm 1.4 GMII when it's released. But oddly, I'm not feeling excited.

That's because:

1. The Sigma is a beautifully engineered piece of glass with great IQ.

2. I don't need >15fps for portrait work.

3. I have 70-200mm GMII as a complementary workhorse lens (with 30fps on my A1's if needed)

4. The new Sony is likely to be approaching twice the cost I paid for the Sigma.

What would change my mind?

The new Sony would have to have some secret sauce in the under corrected SA etc for gorgeous rendering and transition wide open - exquitely tuned for portraits basically. BUT it would have to be massively better than the Sigma and especially the original GM.

I know the original GM is cherished for such properties, buts its AF is slow and noisy, and it doesn't have an aperture ring.

Click to expand...

Agreed. How's the AF of the Sigma treating you?

From what I've seen Sigma really nailed that 85DN, more so than their 35/50 f1.4, in both IQ, designed trade-offs, and size/weight.

Click to expand...

I've found the AF to be fast and accurate. But, to be clear, I use it for headshots and the like on A1 bodies.

I didn't choose it for tracking or >15fps. I have other lenses for that.....

Click to expand...

Yeah that's the only caveat I ever hear about it, I see a lot of people (with questionable intentions) hung up on the corrected distortion but it seems like a non-issue to me. I wish we had more accurate tests of AF in general to truly know how things stack up, I made a similar compromise (in AF specifically) with my Samyang 135/1.8.

Impulses said:

ray_burnimage said:

Impulses said:

ray_burnimage said:

On the primes side, as a people photographer, I'm a classic 35mm/85mm guy.

Currently I have:

35mm 1.4GM

85mm Sigma 1.4 DGDN

In theory, I should be all over the 85mm 1.4 GMII when it's released. But oddly, I'm not feeling excited.

That's because:

1. The Sigma is a beautifully engineered piece of glass with great IQ.

2. I don't need >15fps for portrait work.

3. I have 70-200mm GMII as a complementary workhorse lens (with 30fps on my A1's if needed)

4. The new Sony is likely to be approaching twice the cost I paid for the Sigma.

What would change my mind?

The new Sony would have to have some secret sauce in the under corrected SA etc for gorgeous rendering and transition wide open - exquitely tuned for portraits basically. BUT it would have to be massively better than the Sigma and especially the original GM.

I know the original GM is cherished for such properties, buts its AF is slow and noisy, and it doesn't have an aperture ring.

Click to expand...

Agreed. How's the AF of the Sigma treating you?

From what I've seen Sigma really nailed that 85DN, more so than their 35/50 f1.4, in both IQ, designed trade-offs, and size/weight.

Click to expand...

I've found the AF to be fast and accurate. But, to be clear, I use it for headshots and the like on A1 bodies.

I didn't choose it for tracking or >15fps. I have other lenses for that.....

Click to expand...

Yeah that's the only caveat I ever hear about it, I see a lot of people (with questionable intentions) hung up on the corrected distortion but it seems like a non-issue to me. I wish we had more accurate tests of AF in general to truly know how things stack up, I made a similar compromise (in AF specifically) with my Samyang 135/1.8.

Click to expand...

To me an 85mm prime is a speciality portrait lens that comes out from time to time. For a workhorse portrait lens or when I need optimum tracking and/or max fps I revert to my 70-200mm GMII

ray_burnimage said:

Impulses said:

ray_burnimage said:

Impulses said:

ray_burnimage said:

On the primes side, as a people photographer, I'm a classic 35mm/85mm guy.

Currently I have:

35mm 1.4GM

85mm Sigma 1.4 DGDN

In theory, I should be all over the 85mm 1.4 GMII when it's released. But oddly, I'm not feeling excited.

That's because:

1. The Sigma is a beautifully engineered piece of glass with great IQ.

2. I don't need >15fps for portrait work.

3. I have 70-200mm GMII as a complementary workhorse lens (with 30fps on my A1's if needed)

4. The new Sony is likely to be approaching twice the cost I paid for the Sigma.

What would change my mind?

The new Sony would have to have some secret sauce in the under corrected SA etc for gorgeous rendering and transition wide open - exquitely tuned for portraits basically. BUT it would have to be massively better than the Sigma and especially the original GM.

I know the original GM is cherished for such properties, buts its AF is slow and noisy, and it doesn't have an aperture ring.

Click to expand...

Agreed. How's the AF of the Sigma treating you?

From what I've seen Sigma really nailed that 85DN, more so than their 35/50 f1.4, in both IQ, designed trade-offs, and size/weight.

Click to expand...

I've found the AF to be fast and accurate. But, to be clear, I use it for headshots and the like on A1 bodies.

I didn't choose it for tracking or >15fps. I have other lenses for that.....

Click to expand...

Yeah that's the only caveat I ever hear about it, I see a lot of people (with questionable intentions) hung up on the corrected distortion but it seems like a non-issue to me. I wish we had more accurate tests of AF in general to truly know how things stack up, I made a similar compromise (in AF specifically) with my Samyang 135/1.8.

Click to expand...

To me an 85mm prime is a speciality portrait lens that comes out from time to time. For a workhorse portrait lens or when I need optimum tracking and/or max fps I revert to my 70-200mm GMII

Click to expand...

I get that. I do use my tele primes to shoot concerts and events (not professionally, if that were the case I'd be using a zoom or a GM prime) hence my curiosity. I also end up using them to shoot kids and that's as tricky as anything at times, but I like the look and the lenses' smaller size.