Can you help answer some questions on choosing a new PC. Have chosen a few configurations from Cybe

I need to update my 14 yr old computer urgently now. Started looking lat year but health issues got in the way. Discussed integrated or card graphics, I have decided to go with card. Looking at prices of PC's £900 to £1200. Looked at Cyberpower PC's and asked questions on internet and answers got me more confused (chose them because got last computer there and I want 2 or maybe 3 drives and Dell doesn't give that choice.)

At the moment do low level gaming like jewel quest and Zuma. But will be needing new games as they won't work on W 10. Also do some photo editing and maybe some video editing.

Questions:

i5 14400 F 14th Gen or i5 12th gen or AMD Ryzen 4500 or 5500

Internet says that Intel having problems with 13th and 14th generations and go with 12th Gen 6 core which is good enough for most things. or AMD Is this correct?

Graphics card 3050 8gb 3060 12gb or 4060 8gb or AMD Radeon RX 7600

Int says 3060 12gb better than 4060 8gb

AMD may not be as compatible with peripherals

RAM 32gb or 16gb Kingston Fury or Corsair Vengeance

Much difference to warrant cost of changing?

Primary NvME Drive WD Black or Seagate Back up drive

Most of there Pc's are Kingston (cheaper) or WD Black. Internet says WD higher failure rate. So is it worth the expense of changing to seagate. Should I have both drives NvME and WD or should I have SSD or Hdd and Seagate for backup

Mother board. Most of their choices are MSI Pro H610 1 x M.2. But I want at least 2 drives, (possibly 3, if old computer fails, I could transfer one of its new drives SSD or HDD to new PC. When chose 3 x M2 said it didn't support 3 and choose another mother board, so is this a mistake or doesn't it support 2 NvME's but would support a 3rd drive of a different type ie HDD?

What case is best at a low price ie air flow , liquid cooling

Any other extras? ie video capture card, wireless networking? Do you need anything extra if I wanted to watch TV on PC?

Here are brief description of PC's I am considering, their price and price after adding extra drive and M Office, and changing M Board.

Weekly Sales 111 £864 £1186.80

Intel i5 12400F 12th gen 6 core

MSI Geforce 4060 8gb

MB changed to Asus Prime B760 3 x M.2

RAM 16gb Corsair Vengeance

Drives changes to 2 1TB Seagate

Infinity X145 £999.60 ££1,208.40

i5 14400F 10 core

RTX 40608gb

MB MSI Pro B760 2 x M.2

RAM 32gb Corsair Vengeance

1 !TB WD Black changed to 2



AMD Ultra R55 Elite £854 £1063.20

AMD Ryzen 5 5500 6 core

Graphics Radeon 8 RX 7600 8gb

MB MSI B550M SATA 3 2 x M'2

RAM 16gb Corsair V LPX

1 1TB WD Black changed to 2

AMD Ultra 45 £688.80 £954.60

Ryzen 5 4500 6 core

Graphics 3050 8gb

MB MSI B550 2 xM.2

RAM 16gb Corsair V

1 1TB WD Black changed to 2

There were 2 others I looked at Minecraft and Overwatch which had i5 14th Gen Graphic 3050 and 32gb Kingston Fury. But these worked out at £1,275.60 and £1,370.40.

The graphics 4060 8gb and RAM 16gb seem to be cheaper.

The AMD R45 £945.60 is the cheapest, but is 4500 enough and future proof?

Also like the weekly Sales111 £1186.80 but will it still be there much longer. But it is only 12th Gen but if ther eare problems with later Gen's then maybe good.

AMD R55 at £1063.20 a good in between price but is AMD Radeon a good choice?

So if you have managed to read through all of this, thank you, (took much much longer to type.) Any suggestions to decide what to do next would be helpful.

I'm not in the UK, so my advice may be limited in its relevance there.

The RTX 4060 has better performance than a 12GB RTX 3060. The 3060 might win if you ever needed the 12GB of VRAM. (Which you might for video editing, if you're serious about that. I believe that 8GB is adequate for photo editing.) Gamers hated the 4060, I think because it's not a lot better than the 3060, at about the same price. The 4060 also uses relatively little power (115W), if that matters to you.

The RTX 3050 is the weakest RTX card. (Even compared to the RTX 2060, which was one of the first RTX cards.) Not my favorite.

The AMD RX 7600 may be better than an RTX 3050, but I believe that it's inferior in performance to all of your other choices.

Some of the motherboards you mention are available as DDR4 or DDR5 variants. DDR4 may be slightly cheaper. DDR5 may not have very superior performance, depending on the speed you get. (DDR5 is available at very high speeds, for a price.)

I believe that the current Intel Gen14 issues are overblown. Particularly if the CPU is run within Intel's specified power limits. Maybe this would be of interest:

Puget Systems' Perspective on Intel CPU Instability Issues | Puget Systems

(Puget Systems is a well-known US builder of custom PCs for professional use.)

Regardless, there are promised BIOS updates in the process of being released, which ought to get rid of most residual worries.

The I5-14400F looks to be the best of the CPUs that you list.

I hope that this doesn't increase your confusion too much.

BobKnDP said:

I'm not in the UK, so my advice may be limited in its relevance there.

The RTX 4060 has better performance than a 12GB RTX 3060. The 3060 might win if you ever needed the 12GB of VRAM. (Which you might for video editing, if you're serious about that. I believe that 8GB is adequate for photo editing.) Gamers hated the 4060, I think because it's not a lot better than the 3060, at about the same price. The 4060 also uses relatively little power (115W), if that matters to you.

The RTX 3050 is the weakest RTX card. (Even compared to the RTX 2060, which was one of the first RTX cards.) Not my favorite.

The AMD RX 7600 may be better than an RTX 3050, but I believe that it's inferior in performance to all of your other choices.

Some of the motherboards you mention are available as DDR4 or DDR5 variants. DDR4 may be slightly cheaper. DDR5 may not have very superior performance, depending on the speed you get. (DDR5 is available at very high speeds, for a price.)

I believe that the current Intel Gen14 issues are overblown. Particularly if the CPU is run within Intel's specified power limits. Maybe this would be of interest:

Puget Systems' Perspective on Intel CPU Instability Issues | Puget Systems

(Puget Systems is a well-known US builder of custom PCs for professional use.)

Regardless, there are promised BIOS updates in the process of being released, which ought to get rid of most residual worries.

The I5-14400F looks to be the best of the CPUs that you list.

I hope that this doesn't increase your confusion too much.

Click to expand...

Also the 32GB of RAM will help with video editing.

I went on their site and within your budget at £1049 this seemed like the best deal:

Windows 11 Home (64-bit Edition)AMD Ryzen 5 7500F 6-Core CPU32GB DDR5 5200mhz MemoryGeForce RTX™ 4060 Ti 8GBMSI Pro A620M-E mATX Motherboard1TB Kingston FURY Renegade NVMe PCIe

You get a better GPU and at least in Passmark the AMD CPU beats both the Intel 12th and 14th gen CPUs. And the AMD 7000 series has been out for awhile now without any major issues so for someone keeping a PC for so many years that looks like the way to go.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compar...-5-7600-vs-Intel-i5-12400F-vs-Intel-i5-14400F

If you're customizing you might want a slightly better motherboaroard and one that's full ATX as you mentioned multiple drives.

CBR1100XX said:

I went on their site and within your budget at £1049 this seemed like the best deal:

Windows 11 Home (64-bit Edition)AMD Ryzen 5 7500F 6-Core CPU32GB DDR5 5200mhz MemoryGeForce RTX™ 4060 Ti 8GBMSI Pro A620M-E mATX Motherboard1TB Kingston FURY Renegade NVMe PCIe

You get a better GPU and at least in Passmark the AMD CPU beats both the Intel 12th and 14th gen CPUs. And the AMD 7000 series has been out for awhile now without any major issues so for someone keeping a PC for so many years that looks like the way to go.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compar...-5-7600-vs-Intel-i5-12400F-vs-Intel-i5-14400F

If you're customizing you might want a slightly better motherboaroard and one that's full ATX as you mentioned multiple drives.

Click to expand...

I had a different impression of CPU performance, but I have to agree.

It's nice that the 7500F is a 65W CPU, which means that its cooling requirements are much less than the I5-14400.

I'm CPU agnostic. I've had a Ryzen 9 5950X system, which I liked. An I9-1390K, ditto. My current primary system is AMD Threadripper (mostly pointless).

I would avoid 13th & 14th gen Intel CPUs at the moment in view of all the stability problems admitted by Intel which could result in premature CPU failure.

Thanks for your replies. Given me more to think about. BobknDp your view on the graphics makes me think I should not get 3050 still not sure on 3060 or 4060 or 4060Ti. I will also have to look at my choices as to which had DDR4 and which DDR5. I might go with 32gb RAM, probably not need it but only £30 extra.

SC489 I might take your advice and stay clear of 13th and 14th Gen. So it will be 12th G or AMD.

CBR1100XX I looked at Cyberpower again and I think I found the one you suggested, FM24 Ultra but with changes and office is £1346 apx. Bit more than I want to spend.

Found AMD 7000 series seems similar 4060 not Ti and comes to £1287.60 slightly better.

Also GTA V Ryzen Pro Gaming only a 5500 not 7500F 3060 12gbMB 2 drives. RAM 16gb But upgrade to 32gb and add extra WD drive is £1034,40.

So is series 7000 worth the extra money over the series 5000? I hope to keep the PC for a long time and not upgrade every 2 or 3 years.

So I think I am now looking at AMD Ryzen 5, 3060 or 4060 graphics, 16gb or 32gb Ram.

And AMD 5500 or extra £104 for AMD 7500F.

Does the series require DDR5?

On the question of Hard drives. Is there a problem with high failure rates as one suggested on the internet. Is it worth changing to Seagate? Not alot of price difference.

I thought Cyberpower built the PC's, so why do they charge extra to install a different component? Are they all pre-built and need things removing before installing new?

Thanks again for your help.

I will let others reply to most of your questions, since I don't know that much about the I5 and lower end nvidia cards.

However, if you have a choice between Samsung and WD Black, I would go with Samsung. I have a Samsung 990 NvME as my C drive and a WD Black as a second NvME which stores cache data for my PP software. The WD Black runs 8-10 degrees C hotter than the Samsung, even though the Samsung is always active and the WD is only active when I am actually PPing images. I don't have a Seagate NvME but have 6 Seagate HDs in my system and all are excellent. You might be able to Google NvME temperatures and see if the Seagate also runs much cooler than the WDs.

I think that avoiding the Intel Gen13 and Gen14 CPUs is overdone. Especially if you're not considering the high-end models.

(Maybe I'm being too cavalier about that. On the other hand, Internet opinions don't tend towards moderation.)

The Ryzen 5 7500F seems to require DDR5.

AMD Ryzen™ 5 7500F

AMD has just released the Ryzen 9000 series. The 6 core model is the Ryzen 5 9600X. I see wildly inconsistent reviews online about its performance. This review looks like it may have a modest gain over the 7000 series:

Review: Ryzen 5 9600X processor (guru3d.com)

I don't know how long it'd take before appearing in builder systems. Regardless, at least for the moment, it may add on the order of £100 to the price, or more.

As regards extra charges at Cyberpower for specifying components, that suggests that their normal builds use cheaper components rather than the big-name brands. Say, using a Team Group M.2 drive rather than Samsung. (That may have little to do with the performance or reliability of the system.)

BobKnDP said:

I think that avoiding the Intel Gen13 and Gen14 CPUs is overdone. Especially if you're not considering the high-end models.

Click to expand...

I agree, but I would suggest updating the UEFI BIOS soon after purchasing. It appears that motherboard makers are already releasing updates incorporating the fixes from Intel.

BobKnDP said:

(Maybe I'm being too cavalier about that. On the other hand, Internet opinions don't tend towards moderation.)

Click to expand...

I can only say that my humble i5-13600K has had no problems, but I set lower-than-factory power limits from early on.

BobKnDP said:

I think that avoiding the Intel Gen13 and Gen14 CPUs is overdone. Especially if you're not considering the high-end models.

(Maybe I'm being too cavalier about that. On the other hand, Internet opinions don't tend towards moderation.)

Click to expand...

Intel extending it to all CPUs down to 65W which is what gives me the most pause. The issue is it's just hard to know how often this is happening. If someone gets a blue screen they likely will likely chalk it up as being due to a program, or OS, and then maybe BIOS, or some other hardware issue before the CPU itself which usually is a pretty reliable part at stock settings. And most won't go through those steps of troubleshooting.

And that's kinda the big issue right now. Even with an increase due to Intel chips those other causes are much more likely than the CPU one but if it is the CPU then it's forever damaged so it's just something to worry about. There is a microcode adjustment coming out now which hopefully will fix it but fixes sometimes take a time or 2 to get right as they go across an install base of tens of millions of CPUs. So in a few months this could be a total non-issue. If I had to buy today and needed to have a computer with minimal downtime Intel would be a harder sell.

Lilyanna said:

Thanks for your replies. Given me more to think about. BobknDp your view on the graphics makes me think I should not get 3050 still not sure on 3060 or 4060 or 4060Ti. I will also have to look at my choices as to which had DDR4 and which DDR5. I might go with 32gb RAM, probably not need it but only £30 extra.

SC489 I might take your advice and stay clear of 13th and 14th Gen. So it will be 12th G or AMD.

CBR1100XX I looked at Cyberpower again and I think I found the one you suggested, FM24 Ultra but with changes and office is £1346 apx. Bit more than I want to spend.

Found AMD 7000 series seems similar 4060 not Ti and comes to £1287.60 slightly better.

Also GTA V Ryzen Pro Gaming only a 5500 not 7500F 3060 12gbMB 2 drives. RAM 16gb But upgrade to 32gb and add extra WD drive is £1034,40.

So is series 7000 worth the extra money over the series 5000? I hope to keep the PC for a long time and not upgrade every 2 or 3 years.

So I think I am now looking at AMD Ryzen 5, 3060 or 4060 graphics, 16gb or 32gb Ram.

And AMD 5500 or extra £104 for AMD 7500F.

Does the series require DDR5?

On the question of Hard drives. Is there a problem with high failure rates as one suggested on the internet. Is it worth changing to Seagate? Not alot of price difference.

I thought Cyberpower built the PC's, so why do they charge extra to install a different component? Are they all pre-built and need things removing before installing new?

Thanks again for your help.

Click to expand...

I'd go for the 7000 series in your case. If it's ~200 and you might get an extra little bit of life out of it as is and as someone who likes to hold onto their computers for awhile that by itself would be worth it.

But more importantly say in 5-6 years it's running slow and you find yourself in this position again. Nothing is 100% set in stone but there's a good chance that the next generation AMD 10,000 series or whatever they end up calling them CPUs will be compatible with that motherboard*

And by that time they'd even be a generation old and cheaper. Since Cyberpower uses regular motherboards from MSI, Asus, etc. either you, a friend, or a local shop should be able to do a CPU swap for as it's pretty easy to get a big life extension on the machine with faster cores (and more of them too if you wanted) and that's something that the Intel/5000 series AMD machines likely can't have. And this would be a fraction of the cost of a new computer while providing a lot of the same performance as one.

*They said the CPU socket will be supported through 2027 so the newer chips should physically fit in, the question is if they can keep get it so the BIOS can take the upgrade. Though they should get 2 generations out of it.

Agree. Was going to buy new desktop, but I will wait. I am no longer a pc tech type person therefore buying new and then dealing with bios, etc fixes is not for me. Also, who provides these fixes? The PC builder? Just more than I want to deal with new.

greg

Again thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my questions. You have really helped. I'll be glad when I have finally chosen, driving me crazy and taking so much time.

A couple of extra questions please.

I have chosen 2 NvME drives but should the back up be a SSD or HDD instead?

Present computer came with liquid cooling system. I never did anything to it. 3 years ago my PC guy said best to change it and put in ordinary fans.

I vaguely remember removing packaging from inside PC I think. They now suggest extra foam packaging inside for £15. I presume they still use some sort of packaging to protect it if don't pay extra? Any one know?

When I bought present computer I asked to be able to watch TV on it ie BBC iplayer. I don't know if I paid extra for a TV Tuner. But she insisted that I needed a remote. When computer came it already supplied a remote, and the extra one I paid for. Didn't use either. Used keyboard. Do Pc's now come with TV capability? nothing I can see on their list to pay for extra components.

Do I need Wireless networking and/or a Wireless USB adaptor?

Is the ultra kit worth paying for or are there other alternatives. I could do with cleaning my present computer I think, my computer did it a few years ago.

So

So after spending ages looking at lots of different configurations on Cyberpower, also of Ry 5 4500 choices, not so many 5500 or 7500, at least not in price range I was looking at.

So it's back to AMD 7000 Series R5 7500 MSI Geforce 4060 R 32gb and changing the MB to 3 x M.2. It comes with a MSI drive, which seems to be the cheapest drive option, and so have changed it to Seagate x 2. Total £1287.

OR GTA Ry5 5500 MSI Geforce 3060 (but not alot to change to 4060) MB 2 x M.2 can't change it. 16gb RAM (they have now said they can't change to 32gb ) and 2 Seagate drives. Total £1183.20.

There is a similar Config to AMD series 70000, the FM24 with 4060i but after changing the mother board and keeping the WD drives comes to £1346.40. So I don't think the 4060ti is worth it.

So I need to decide on the cheaper option or extra £100 and hope it keeps up with future updates. Also hope the Ryzen 5 keeps up. Not much choice in my price range for a Ryzen 7. I can afford the extra £100, just being careful with my money, so probably go for that.

Just being stingy because I was thinking of buying a tablet, maybe, later on. But really can't decide if that would be a good idea, probably end up not getting one.

Thanks again.

I use an 18TB HDD for storing data I don't access often. (Or large files, even if I need to access them frequently.)

I don't know what the life expectancy of most all-in-one liquid coolers might be. Leaks may be something of a red herring, but pump failure seems likelier.

I don't know how you watched TV on a PC. If the signal came from a TV cable or an antenna, you'd need additional hardware. If you use a streaming service, no. (I'm subscribed to several streamers. I watch none on my PC, although I could if I wished.)

Do you need a wireless capability? Some motherboards come with WiFi built in. Others need an adaptor. That could either be a USB device or an add-in card that plugs into a PCI-E slot.

Packing material could be needed with a discrete graphics card, or a large air cooler. Mechanical shocks could damage the card and motherboard. I don't know what Cyberpower would give you if you didn't pay the extra £15.

Best of luck.

Thanks for you reply Bobkndp.

I finally made up my mind and chose the AMD series 7000. After trying to chat online, usually companys preferred method these days. I phoned them and got through right away. He said TV access built in. Comes with good packaging anyway. Checked my changes were OK. So I went ahead and went online and ordered it. Relief decision made.

Thanks again everyone for advice.

Bye

Lilyanna said:

Thanks for you reply Bobkndp.

I finally made up my mind and chose the AMD series 7000. After trying to chat online, usually companys preferred method these days. I phoned them and got through right away. He said TV access built in. Comes with good packaging anyway. Checked my changes were OK. So I went ahead and went online and ordered it. Relief decision made.

Thanks again everyone for advice.

Bye

Click to expand...

You're welcome.

But I wonder what "TV access built in" means?

At least in the US, typical PCs have no means of handling a TV signal from cable or an antenna.

I presume that the "TV" you refer to is streaming over the Internet. Is that correct?

My own live TV watching is through YouTube TV. It's similar to cable: too many channels, most of which I never watch. I could watch it on my PC or smart phone, but I rarely do.

In reply to BobKndp

Yes the TV is over the internet. I didn't watch it a lot, because the reception kept dropping out., which was especially annoying on commercial channel , as would have to start again from the beginning and watch all the adverts again. Only used it if I missed something I really wanted to see, mostly on BBC iPlayer - no adverts.

But 3 years ago I got an Amazon Fire stick, so can watch catch-up TV. Still got to watch the adverts, so prefer to record. Trouble is, with my PVR is stuffed full of documentaries, which I do want to watch at some time, so I stopped recording BBC, and watch on Fire stick. but now I am 6 series behind on David Attenboruough and 10 series behind on other BBC dramas. I could have caught up now as very little that I want to watch at the monent. But my large TV is currently broken, turns on, then after 2 or 3 minutes turns itself off. It sometimes starts working again after a week or two or 6. But this time not co-operating. Need to contact the TV repair man, don't really want to buy a new TV at the moment.

Can watch on small TV in bedroom but not that convenient. Don't want to put too much strain on this old computer, so new computer will hopefully be useful for watching TV until I can get TV sorted out.

Pretty much as I thought.

My own "TV" device is an Amazon Fire Cube, running YouTube TV. YouTube TV has been OK, except for it occasionally deciding that I'm watching from somewhere other than my home. That prevents me from watching local channels. I have to reset the viewing location for it using my smartphone.

I hope that your TV can be repaired for less than the cost of a new one.