Using DX (Nikon Z) lenses on the Nikon1 CX system.. (?)

Heritage Cameras said:

DavidZihon said:

I've decided to buy a TTartisan 25mm Z-Mount lense and see how I go with that.

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Manual lenses like that are much easier to adapt, as you can just replace the rear mount. You can probably even save the 1mm required for infinity focus, as long as the lens's rear element isn't too large for the Nikon 1 mount.

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Have you seen where someone has replaced the mount on a Z lens with a CX mount while maintaining the correct flange distance? Where would the donor mount have come from? What about screw hole alignment?

Paul Pasco said:

The stuff inside is not the problem, that outer chrome rim on the body needs to go away in order for the Z mount to fit. Look at my photo again, the Z mount will not fit inside it.

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I noticed that on your photo and understand what you are saying.

In a few days the Z-compatible lense that I ordered will arrive (it's in transit) and I'll be able to work out what needs to be done for the next step.

Stay tuned.

ishwanu said:

Heritage Cameras said:

DavidZihon said:

I've decided to buy a TTartisan 25mm Z-Mount lense and see how I go with that.

Click to expand...

Manual lenses like that are much easier to adapt, as you can just replace the rear mount. You can probably even save the 1mm required for infinity focus, as long as the lens's rear element isn't too large for the Nikon 1 mount.

Click to expand...

Have you seen where someone has replaced the mount on a Z lens with a CX mount while maintaining the correct flange distance? Where would the donor mount have come from? What about screw hole alignment?

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I think the op plans to change the mount on the camera to a Z mount.

Paul Pasco said:

I think the op plans to change the mount on the camera to a Z mount.

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Not really. I'm still not convinced that removing anything is needed.

I simply removed the screws to see how much space was used by the flange and it turns out that there's a lot of space there.

It also looks like your lense has a matching mating flange that could easily be removed and remade if needed. It looks like the Manufacturer of your lense simply screws on the appropriate flange for whichever body the lense is going destined for.

There's two clear ways as far as I am concerned to be able to get the lense you are showing closer to the sensor if that is needed.

Maybe you are right. I don't know at this stage because the lense I've ordered hasn't arrived.

DavidZihon said:

Paul Pasco said:

I think the op plans to change the mount on the camera to a Z mount.

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Not really. I'm still not convinced that removing anything is needed.

I simply removed the screws to see how much space was used by the flange and it turns out that there's a lot of space there.

It also looks like your lense has a matching mating flange that could easily be removed and remade if needed. It looks like the Manufacturer of your lense simply screws on the appropriate flange for whichever body the lense is going destined for.

There's two clear ways as far as I am concerned to be able to get the lense you are showing closer to the sensor if that is needed.

Maybe you are right. I don't know at this stage because the lense I've ordered hasn't arrived.

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In the case of my lens, even if I removed the mount flange, there is still a raised lip that would be in the way of this lens going into the space you show on the J5 after removing the CX flange. I am still confused as to what you are trying to accomplish. Your original post implied that you wanted to be able to mount Z lenses on the J5 as a way to start investing in Z lenses for a possible future purchase of a Z6. Changing the lens mount of your yet to arrive lens does not further that endeavor as then no other Z lens would fit on the J5 unless modified, and then they wouldn’t mount on a Z body. Then there is the whole issue of the 2.7 crop factor. The lens you are experimenting with will have the equivalent focal length of a little less than 68mm but with the obvious advantage of being an f/2 lens.
All that being said, it doesn’t matter that I don’t understand this, and hope you enjoy the exercise.

--
Regards, Paul
Lili's Dad
WSSA Member #450

Paul Pasco said:

I am still confused as to what you are trying to accomplish. Your original post implied that you wanted to be able to mount Z lenses on the J5 as a way to start investing in Z lenses for a possible future purchase of a Z6. ....

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I saw the photography in this thread - **This week with your Z camera, Aug 3-9, 2024**: Nikon Z Mirrorless Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

and kindof liked it.

I had previously posted photos of my Meike 25/1.8 Z mount lens but I didn't mention that I also have a Meike 35/1.4 CX mount lens. I thought I would partially disassemble the mount end of the 25 to see what there is to see regarding adaptability. I retrieved my set of small screwdrivers from work and set to work. I removed the chrome Z mount which revealed another ring underneath that could be removed. This exposed the tail end of the lens element group and the simple connection of the aperture ring to the aperture mechanism. The inner ring of the 25 was secured with 3 screws and looking at the CX mount on the 35 CX it was secured with 3 screws and I wondered if I removed it, would it fit over the back end of the 25? Not only did it fit but the 3 screw holes lined up with the holes meant for the original inner ring of the lens, so I screwed it on. I mounted it on the J5 and snapped a not so good photo with the lens set to infinity. The reason it was not so good is because I was lazy and shot through a dirty widow plus window screen. I don't know if it actually was precisely focused at infinity but is definitely close enough for proof of concept. I have to say that for what these lenses cost they are sure well made. Parts are machined and finished nicely with close tolerances. Of course all I have proved is that it is possible to adapt a cheap manual Z mount lens to the CX body but adapting an actual AF Z mount lens to the CX mount would be a whole different ballgame and not worth the effort. Here are a few photos of the disassembly.


Back of Meike 25/1.8 Z mount lens


Lens with Z mount removed


Lens with inner ring removed




Meike 35/1.4 with mount screws removed, I forgot to take a photo of the mount on the 25 but it looked much like this.



[ATTACH alt=""adapted" 25mm Z mount lens on J5"]3474997[/ATTACH]
"adapted" 25mm Z mount lens on J5

--
Regards, Paul
Lili's Dad
WSSA Member #450

Paul Pasco said:

[ATTACH alt=""adapted" 25mm Z mount lens on J5"]3474997[/ATTACH]
"adapted" 25mm Z mount lens on J5

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Well, cool and congratulations. You did it.

I'm still waiting for my lense to arrive. Sometime soon apparently.

Paul Pasco said:

I had previously posted photos of my Meike 25/1.8 Z mount lens but I didn't mention that I also have a Meike 35/1.4 CX mount lens. I thought I would partially disassemble the mount end of the 25 to see what there is to see regarding adaptability. I retrieved my set of small screwdrivers from work and set to work. I removed the chrome Z mount which revealed another ring underneath that could be removed. This exposed the tail end of the lens element group and the simple connection of the aperture ring to the aperture mechanism. The inner ring of the 25 was secured with 3 screws and looking at the CX mount on the 35 CX it was secured with 3 screws and I wondered if I removed it, would it fit over the back end of the 25? Not only did it fit but the 3 screw holes lined up with the holes meant for the original inner ring of the lens, so I screwed it on. I mounted it on the J5 and snapped a not so good photo with the lens set to infinity. The reason it was not so good is because I was lazy and shot through a dirty widow plus window screen. I don't know if it actually was precisely focused at infinity but is definitely close enough for proof of concept. I have to say that for what these lenses cost they are sure well made. Parts are machined and finished nicely with close tolerances. Of course all I have proved is that it is possible to adapt a cheap manual Z mount lens to the CX body but adapting an actual AF Z mount lens to the CX mount would be a whole different ballgame and not worth the effort. Here are a few photos of the disassembly.


Back of Meike 25/1.8 Z mount lens


Lens with Z mount removed


Lens with inner ring removed


Meike 35/1.4 with mount screws removed, I forgot to take a photo of the mount on the 25 but it looked much like this.

[ATTACH alt=""adapted" 25mm Z mount lens on J5"]3474997[/ATTACH]
"adapted" 25mm Z mount lens on J5

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Nicely done! Your handy work here provides a great inspiration and bad influence on me... ;-) Since I can't find a M4/3 to CX adapter, I could probably cannibalize M4/3 and CX extension tube to make a M4/3 to CX adapter. Flange distance difference between M43 and Nikon 1 CX, I believe, is 10mm. I should be able to take a 10mm Nikon 1 extension tube and replace the lens side mount with M43 mounting plate. Thanks!

It works * I picked it up from the Delivery centre.

Clear as anything,



Obviously, there is a registration issue. I tried the lense in reverse. It worked even better close up.





As for things past the outside mirrors of the car, it's a bit background blur.



Obviously, a bit more work is needed on this system.

PTMcH said:

Since I can't find a M4/3 to CX adapter, I could probably cannibalize M4/3 and CX extension tube to make a M4/3 to CX adapter. Flange distance difference between M43 and Nikon 1 CX, I believe, is 10mm. I should be able to take a 10mm Nikon 1 extension tube and replace the lens side mount with M43 mounting plate. Thanks!

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I think you'll find the FFD for Nikon 1 is actually 17mm, so the difference between that and MFT is only 2.25mm...

https://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~westin/misc/mounts-by-register.html

The difference between m/43 and CX is only 2.25mm so your 10mm tube is gonna make it a macro lens, sorry. In my case above I had two lenses made by a company that makes cheap manual lenses for several mounts and most of them covered up to APS-C so they could just design a mount for whatever camera they wanted and not worry about electrical connections at all. That is definitely why I was able to take the mount off of one and put it on the other and 3 holes line up perfectly. Even then it wasn’t perfect as there was a gap between the mount and the aperture ring. The mounts in both cases actually retain the aperture ring. I didn’t try the 35/1.4 with the Z mount as I believe that lens only covers up to the m4/3 image circle, it is a relatively tiny lens but solid and weighty.

We’re these taken just holding the lens up to the body?

Thank you. Ya'll are correct... I got a bit confused between flange distance of Auto 110 and M4/3....perhaps a little wishful thinking there. With difference only 2.25mm, I would have to grind out the M4/3 mount portion of Auto 110 to M4/3 (they are cased as one piece) and perhaps glue a CX mount plate cannibalized from somewhere... 3D printing might be my best option here.

PTMcH said:

Thank you. Ya'll are correct... I got a bit confused between flange distance of Auto 110 and M4/3....perhaps a little wishful thinking there. With difference only 2.25mm, I would have to grind out the M4/3 mount portion of Auto 110 to M4/3 (they are cased as one piece) and perhaps glue a CX mount plate cannibalized from somewhere... 3D printing might be my best option here.

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I have some base .STL files and links to where I found the Nikon1 lenses but they would need modifying for different lenses.

That could be done in any number of CAD programs including even the free 3D-Builder from Microsoft or JSCAD.

I'm strongly considering posting any 3DP designs I have to the online so that others can engage the fun as well.

PTMcH said:

Thank you. Ya'll are correct... I got a bit confused between flange distance of Auto 110 and M4/3....perhaps a little wishful thinking there. With difference only 2.25mm, I would have to grind out the M4/3 mount portion of Auto 110 to M4/3 (they are cased as one piece) and perhaps glue a CX mount plate cannibalized from somewhere... 3D printing might be my best option here.

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Here’s a set of three each CX lens and body mounts for $30; you just need to unscrew them from the tubes!

Paul Pasco said:

Here’s a set of three each CX lens and body mounts for $30; you just need to unscrew them from the tubes!

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I have a cheaper option.

See if you have a broken Nikon1 lense from your collection where the plastic gear wheel is bust and take the flange from that.

It's worth checking in what you already have first.

Another benefit is that you are using an original Nikon part and 100% silver painted plastic.



The easiest "filler" is black hot-melt glue sticks. They don't really bond permenantly to any surface so you can generally remove and redo the bond to get it right.

But they will hold a part in with resonable strength.

If you want a "forever" bond go to Polyurethane, JB-Weld or some 2-part adhesive.

Paul Pasco said:

We’re these taken just holding the lens up to the body?

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yes.

Now that I have an actual lense I can see what you mean by the DX lense-base/flange being too big and too distant to mount easily on the Nikon1.

I had assumed it would have been as easy as simply adding space but it seems like the DX system wants the lense quite close to the sensor.

I did see you remove the lense flange. On this TTArtisan lense that I have, it's not so simple. A special tool that I don't have is needed and there are no easy to access screws that can be undone.



So at this point, it's looking like the only option with be to remove and replace the lense mount flange on the Nikon1 body.

I think that's going to be a nightmare with a dubious chance of success.

When I have time I'll probably pull down the J5 and try to remove the lense-flange but at this point I cannot easily see how that is actually done. I might have to research some repair videos on youtube to see how the pulldown process needs to be done.

PTMcH said:

Thank you. Ya'll are correct... I got a bit confused between flange distance of Auto 110 and M4/3....perhaps a little wishful thinking there. With difference only 2.25mm, I would have to grind out the M4/3 mount portion of Auto 110 to M4/3 (they are cased as one piece) and perhaps glue a CX mount plate cannibalized from somewhere... 3D printing might be my best option here.

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Paul, thanks for the link.

David, Yeah, finger-crossed, all my Nikon 1 lens still working well. I think only my 10-100 might be at risk sometime in the future, but I always have the option of dropping by Mr. Huang's shop when I am in Taiwan. BTW, thanks for the info about the potting material; now that I might have a better plan.

Now that works stuff are out of the way, and wine has not kicked-in in full force, upon closer examination, making an Auto 110 to Nikon 1 adapter might be easier than I thought. On the left is the CX extension tube I already have (I'll probably buy one from Amazon either to replace or cannibalize), on the left is the Auto 110 adapter. Flange distance difference between Auto 110 and CX is 10mm (Nikon 1 - 17mm, Auto 110 - 27mm). I just need to unscrew the Auto 110 flange from the adapter, fill the space in the extension tube and "carefully" place the Auto 110 flange before filling is cured while aligning the center opening and surface flush between the Auto 110 flange and the extension tube.



Gluing the M4/3 camera mount flange (cannibalize from extension tube) to Nikon 1 lens flange. Likely will result in greater than 2.25mm distance. I would have to see what the resulting distance might be.

You guys are BAD Influence! My wife is not going to let me get back on this forum if she find out... :-D

DavidZihon said:

Paul Pasco said:

We’re these taken just holding the lens up to the body?

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yes.

Now that I have an actual lense I can see what you mean by the DX lense-base/flange being too big and too distant to mount easily on the Nikon1.

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It would be more correct to refer to the lenses as Z mount; DX is Nikon’s term for the APS-C sensor size, not a lens mount.

DavidZihon said:

I had assumed it would have been as easy as simply adding space but it seems like the DX system wants the lense quite close to the sensor.

I did see you remove the lense flange. On this TTArtisan lense that I have, it's not so simple. A special tool that I don't have is needed and there are no easy to access screws that can be undone.

Click to expand...

I can see two holes on the wide black ring inside the lens flange. There is a tool called a lens spanner that consists of a bar with two adjustable arms that slide along the bar, with thumb screws to tighten at the correct width. The ends of the arms have interchangeable points of different sizes and the idea is to adjust the width of these points to match the holes so that it can be used to turn out that ring. Under that may be screws that secure the mount flange…or not. There are several ways to design a lens.

DavidZihon said:

So at this point, it's looking like the only option with be to remove and replace the lense mount flange on the Nikon1 body.

I think that's going to be a nightmare with a dubious chance of success.

When I have time I'll probably pull down the J5 and try to remove the lense-flange but at this point I cannot easily see how that is actually done. I might have to research some repair videos on youtube to see how the pulldown process needs to be done.

Click to expand...

--
Regards, Paul
Lili's Dad
WSSA Member #450