I think the best way to learn photography is to begin with a DSLR and then switch to film when you already know the basics to avoid costly mistakes. At least, that's how I did it.
Мои 2 копейки.
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Should I quit Film Photography?
- Thread starter Alec246
- Start date
Мои 2 копейки.
I guess with all the film revival social media noise there is a lot of rubbish being pawned
It was no different 15-20 years ago. Not just "dealers," but pickers, the people who go from yard sale to yard sale. Some will have a real camera person inspect their finds, many don't.
It was no different 15-20 years ago. Not just "dealers," but pickers, the people who go from yard sale to yard sale. Some will have a real camera person inspect their finds, many don't.
News just arrived
OM-2N has electric issue beyong repair! Haha! Another one that passed by my hands going to the trashbin
Not really sure what to do. Have to think about it now.
UPDATE:
Should I give up SLR, and go for Film Photography on a RangeFinder? The SLR thing never was a big point, I dont even want a camera that is too big, thats why I liked the OM2 so much. The thing is a Rangefinger is usually a much bigger investment. Leica, or other similar,. I would probably want all Mechanical now, I Dont want anything electronic to malfunction and make it a paper weight. Leica M2 / M3, something similar? I considered Olympus OM-1 but as I say above, not sure if I want a SLR.
You have inspired me not to give up film. I really like the analog life and what comes with it. I need excuses to get away from computers, connect to things more important and meaninful out of digital world, and photography helps me do just that.
--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
OM-2N has electric issue beyong repair! Haha! Another one that passed by my hands going to the trashbin
Not really sure what to do. Have to think about it now.
UPDATE:
Should I give up SLR, and go for Film Photography on a RangeFinder? The SLR thing never was a big point, I dont even want a camera that is too big, thats why I liked the OM2 so much. The thing is a Rangefinger is usually a much bigger investment. Leica, or other similar,. I would probably want all Mechanical now, I Dont want anything electronic to malfunction and make it a paper weight. Leica M2 / M3, something similar? I considered Olympus OM-1 but as I say above, not sure if I want a SLR.
You have inspired me not to give up film. I really like the analog life and what comes with it. I need excuses to get away from computers, connect to things more important and meaninful out of digital world, and photography helps me do just that.
--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
Last edited:
Ugh, terrible! Sorry to hear this happening to you. Some people just have bad luck in life. My wife is one of them. X-D
Glad you're still with us!
Ok, so you can keep trying to find something you like, but like people above are saying, buying used gear is a mixture of luck and technique. You are already making sure to use only stores with a good return/refund policy, so that's great. MPB, KEH, Adorama, BHPhoto are all good imo. Kamerastore is too, since they fix their own stuff, but they are a little pricier than other options. Blue Moon Camera in Portland OR is also very good. They also fix stuff and develop film. Etsy is good too, but it takes more effort to find the good deals than it used to.
Staying away from old electronics is something I do. Plenty of mass-produced all mechanical SLRs out there like the Pentax K1000 for not much money. I know it's no OM-1 or FM2, but it's close.
Don't feel like you have to buy something NOW right when you find it. Sit on it, talk to the seller and ask for picks, shop around. Sellers on Etsy are very responsive.
Unless you just have to have a rangefinder, there's a better chance of finding a working SLR for cheaper than a rangefinder. Cheap rangefinders means FSU cameras, which are a whole other world of concerns. I mean, the same concerns as for other used gear but magnified. Do some research before you decide to go here.
There's also the Voighlander Bessa rangefinders, but those now compete in price with Leicas on the low end.
As for medium format, there are sooo easy ways to get started. Holgas are fun. There's a ton of folders from the 1930's and up that are well-built. The caveat is the condition of the bellows.
I'm sure that if you found something interesting, people on here would be happy to give you a 2nd opinion on the listing.
I'm sending you some of my good luck!
Thank you! Appreciate the kind words and offer of good luck! I sure can use that!! 
Indeed, I steer away from anytjing that doesn't guarantee refunds nowadays. Never again. No matter how good the deal might look like, it almost never paid off in the end for me.
I am in talk to the Store to see where we might go next, options for film cameras, etc. I am staying 35mm for now, I think it's too early for me to jump to Medium Format, but it sure is a thing in my list. Its just that its easier to purchase, process, scan 35mm, adding another layer of complexity is definitely not somethign I need right now.
About Digital vs Film for Learning. I have two takes on this. Digital is much better in terms of getting fast feedback and being able to analyse that and not repeat it again next time you are out shooting.
But that doesn't work if you don't really care for the mistake you did. And that is a problem for me in Digital. It is so easy to shot, make mistakes, reject those mistakes on Lightroom and never look at it again, I think many times I am not learning any lessons from them, just ignoring. Meanwhile, a mistake made on Film hurts the wallet, that is the first reason you notice and dont want to do it again. And you spend that whole week looking forward to that photo, when you get to see it, and its not like you imagined, it impacts much more. You definitely don't want that mistake to happen again. It has a much more significant impact on me, so I am divided in the end which is the best path for beginners
Indeed, I steer away from anytjing that doesn't guarantee refunds nowadays. Never again. No matter how good the deal might look like, it almost never paid off in the end for me.
I am in talk to the Store to see where we might go next, options for film cameras, etc. I am staying 35mm for now, I think it's too early for me to jump to Medium Format, but it sure is a thing in my list. Its just that its easier to purchase, process, scan 35mm, adding another layer of complexity is definitely not somethign I need right now.
About Digital vs Film for Learning. I have two takes on this. Digital is much better in terms of getting fast feedback and being able to analyse that and not repeat it again next time you are out shooting.
But that doesn't work if you don't really care for the mistake you did. And that is a problem for me in Digital. It is so easy to shot, make mistakes, reject those mistakes on Lightroom and never look at it again, I think many times I am not learning any lessons from them, just ignoring. Meanwhile, a mistake made on Film hurts the wallet, that is the first reason you notice and dont want to do it again. And you spend that whole week looking forward to that photo, when you get to see it, and its not like you imagined, it impacts much more. You definitely don't want that mistake to happen again. It has a much more significant impact on me, so I am divided in the end which is the best path for beginners
Overrank
Veteran Member
- Messages
- 7,915
- Solutions
- 14
- Reaction score
- 4,435
So long as you don’t want interchangeable lenses you can get a very good, working rangefinder for <£200 pretty easily. In most cases <£100 should get you a good model.
I get it! I've been disappointed many times and it sucks since I send my film off for development. Sometimes happy accidents happen and you get something unexpectedly good (that's the Lomo philosophy). When I use my Holgas, I hold almost no expectations on the results, which is sort of the point for plastic cameras.
It will be rocky in the beginning, yes, but that's how it goes. It's the rough roads that test us and enable us to grow. We just need to expect that we won't succeed with every frame. Even if I am disappointed with a frame, I will learn something from it regardless.
Also, most of the 100-400 speed film out there is pretty flexible in terms of exposure (apart from slide film) so you really just need to be in the exposure ballpark and that's not too difficult for sunny outside conditions. The Sunny 16 Rule is pretty legit.
I think someone else may have suggested this but using your EM10 at a fixed iso in M mode is a great way to bolster your confidence since you're getting instant feedback.
Solid advice! I started doing a bit as you say, get my OM-D in Manual Mode, and try Suny 16! That is both fun, very confusing when I tried to shift the F16 to F8 to better suit my M43 lens, had to remember the new values! Also, Digital is a lot more unforgiving! Overexposure specially, lost some photos that were just unrecovered.
Update on my Film Journey, if anyone is interested: I have been in contact with the store, they are very nice people. I am mostly done with SLR, specially film, I don't look for any of the specifics of what makes a SLR superior to other cameras when using Film, for that I get my M43, with Modern AutoFocus. I take my time when using Film, its what makes me like the process of shooting film so much, so that makes Manual Focus also a non issue.
Another requirement of mine for Film now is 100% mechanical. I don't want to deal with electronics, not on my main cameras. Point and Shoot fine, I have fun when it breaks it breaks, but I want to make an investment that is repairable if it ever fails.
So.. This store has some beautiful Leicas M in there. Specifically M2. I am considering it... I cant afford anything Leica Modern, so that leaves me the Leica M2 and M3, and since I want 35mm, the M2 is the winner.
With the money I have as credit to the OM-2 + Lens i returned, plus adding quite a bit of money, sure, I can maybe get the camera I don't have to think about replacing in years? Most importantly, I Can buy new lenses for it, Voigtlander, so I don't have to search for Fungus free 30+ year old equipment around the world. I dont care for Leica as a status symbol, i just am tired of looking for equipment in usable condition, that just works, without things to worry about, limitations in the design, paying complete insane prices for equipment that years ago cost 1/5 of that price, just because of reasons, etc..
Update on my Film Journey, if anyone is interested: I have been in contact with the store, they are very nice people. I am mostly done with SLR, specially film, I don't look for any of the specifics of what makes a SLR superior to other cameras when using Film, for that I get my M43, with Modern AutoFocus. I take my time when using Film, its what makes me like the process of shooting film so much, so that makes Manual Focus also a non issue.
Another requirement of mine for Film now is 100% mechanical. I don't want to deal with electronics, not on my main cameras. Point and Shoot fine, I have fun when it breaks it breaks, but I want to make an investment that is repairable if it ever fails.
So.. This store has some beautiful Leicas M in there. Specifically M2. I am considering it... I cant afford anything Leica Modern, so that leaves me the Leica M2 and M3, and since I want 35mm, the M2 is the winner.
With the money I have as credit to the OM-2 + Lens i returned, plus adding quite a bit of money, sure, I can maybe get the camera I don't have to think about replacing in years? Most importantly, I Can buy new lenses for it, Voigtlander, so I don't have to search for Fungus free 30+ year old equipment around the world. I dont care for Leica as a status symbol, i just am tired of looking for equipment in usable condition, that just works, without things to worry about, limitations in the design, paying complete insane prices for equipment that years ago cost 1/5 of that price, just because of reasons, etc..
Last edited:
I sold most of my Leica film gear a few years ago but kept the M3 with collapsible summicron 50mm but I rarely use it. The Nikon FE is just a better camera in most situations. As far as lenses go there is lots of Canon, Contax, Nikon etc lenses that is equal to Leica's offering with the added bonus of having a greater variety of lenses which make those camera bodies are a better option.
Photojournaliss switched to Nikon and Canon etc because they had a better chance of getting their desired results from SLR cameras
ps I switched my film cameras from Olympus to Nikon a long time ago, the OM2 and OM4 were just too fussy .
Photojournaliss switched to Nikon and Canon etc because they had a better chance of getting their desired results from SLR cameras
ps I switched my film cameras from Olympus to Nikon a long time ago, the OM2 and OM4 were just too fussy .
Last edited:
That's a great camera! I initially months ago decided my camera would be a F3, which I of course had to return, but even if I didnt, I would eventually switch since it is way too huge for my style, but it felt amazing, such a great camera.
But the more time passes, more I find out I don't really fit well with SLRs. I had a D7100 in the past, after that I got a Fuji X100, the Nikon I sold with very few shots taken, the Fuji X100 I miss still today, wish I hadn't sold that camera.
I could get a much cheaper RangeFinder? Sure! But to avoid another issue which would surely make me quit photography for good, the most recommended wouldnt be cheap either, and probably electronic, so it could fail anytime. The Bessas are M2/M3 prices nowadays, so what is the point? Just get the original instead. Konica Hexar, if anything fails, paperweight. Contax G Series? Paperweight. So I am more and more accepting the idea of a Leica
--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
But the more time passes, more I find out I don't really fit well with SLRs. I had a D7100 in the past, after that I got a Fuji X100, the Nikon I sold with very few shots taken, the Fuji X100 I miss still today, wish I hadn't sold that camera.
I could get a much cheaper RangeFinder? Sure! But to avoid another issue which would surely make me quit photography for good, the most recommended wouldnt be cheap either, and probably electronic, so it could fail anytime. The Bessas are M2/M3 prices nowadays, so what is the point? Just get the original instead. Konica Hexar, if anything fails, paperweight. Contax G Series? Paperweight. So I am more and more accepting the idea of a Leica
--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
Last edited:
Just make sure the rangefinder mechanism is aligned, otherwise you need to CLA the camera and have it realigned
Too many older Leicas on sale are a bit iffy with grubby lenses, pay the extra and don't dice with ebay but you can get lucky.
I moved on from Leicas because I was more interested in getting the results than fiddling with cameras and loading film
Good luck in your quest for
"utopia"
I do understand that Leica desire but for the uninitiated it does initially come with some unwanted baggage.
Too many older Leicas on sale are a bit iffy with grubby lenses, pay the extra and don't dice with ebay but you can get lucky.
I moved on from Leicas because I was more interested in getting the results than fiddling with cameras and loading film
Good luck in your quest for
"utopia" I do understand that Leica desire but for the uninitiated it does initially come with some unwanted baggage.
Last edited:
I'm not really sure this makes sense. You're worried about having an issue with a cheaper camera, but you don't seem to consider that the Leica can also have problems, and that those will probably be more expensive to get fixed.
Have you used any rangefinder film cameras before?
Not a unusual response by the OP as there is a tendency for people to get smitten when it comes to Leica and rangefinders.
Those that are coming from digital to a film rangefinder get a reality fix in a hurry, the SLR film shooters usually take it in their stride. Despite that if one works at their craft the results will eventually come though not without some frustration
The OP's impulse buying from one brand to another brand is the problem, searching for a answer that way becomes a expensive exercise, but it's the OP's choice,
Last edited:
I understand the questioning behind my decisions, and I am partially guilty here. Let me explain a bit about the sudden Leica drive.
My main motivation is to stay with the same store I have bought the Olympus, and now have credit to spend. That was clearly not their fault, the camera had been services a few months prior, it was just 40+ old electronic ending of life without notice. They have provided me top support, and I really their standards in their equipment available, their lowest grade cameras being sold are better than most I can see at eBay for example.
So, this is the main reason. I don't want to switch store. I don't have other options, I wont buy direct again with no refund, we have gone through this whole process here already where i described the situations.
They do have quality Nikon SLRs. But this whole process of too much time thinking of photography and little practice due to no camera to shoot, other than my M43 Digital, made me realize that I don't like the SLR form factor. Even my OM-D is not very pleasant for me to go out and shoot. I much prefer the RangeFinder style of cameras. I mean as form factor, I am not talking about SLR manual focus vs rangefinder, see through the lens or not, etc. What I do value is silent shutter. That is a definitive plus for RangeFinders, as I like street photos, and I will never ever be cool shooting a F3 in front of someone, it feels like the whole street looks at you.
If we were talking digital, i would for for a X100, or something similar interchangeable lens, etc. Film, that leaves me pretty much with RangeFinders, or Advanced Point and Shoots. The RangeFinders other than Leica I have looked into would be Canon P, Canon 7S, Minolta CLE, thats what I Can remember now. The Canons uses Screw Mount Lenses, I dont want that since it means very old equipment, chance of fungus and other nasty issues is very high. Minolta CLE you basically can't find anywhere, and the cost is also very high, not to mention it is electronic. So, my point being, its not about Leica, its about RangeFinders, and I cant find really anything that is not an SLR that would make sense.
--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
My main motivation is to stay with the same store I have bought the Olympus, and now have credit to spend. That was clearly not their fault, the camera had been services a few months prior, it was just 40+ old electronic ending of life without notice. They have provided me top support, and I really their standards in their equipment available, their lowest grade cameras being sold are better than most I can see at eBay for example.
So, this is the main reason. I don't want to switch store. I don't have other options, I wont buy direct again with no refund, we have gone through this whole process here already where i described the situations.
They do have quality Nikon SLRs. But this whole process of too much time thinking of photography and little practice due to no camera to shoot, other than my M43 Digital, made me realize that I don't like the SLR form factor. Even my OM-D is not very pleasant for me to go out and shoot. I much prefer the RangeFinder style of cameras. I mean as form factor, I am not talking about SLR manual focus vs rangefinder, see through the lens or not, etc. What I do value is silent shutter. That is a definitive plus for RangeFinders, as I like street photos, and I will never ever be cool shooting a F3 in front of someone, it feels like the whole street looks at you.
If we were talking digital, i would for for a X100, or something similar interchangeable lens, etc. Film, that leaves me pretty much with RangeFinders, or Advanced Point and Shoots. The RangeFinders other than Leica I have looked into would be Canon P, Canon 7S, Minolta CLE, thats what I Can remember now. The Canons uses Screw Mount Lenses, I dont want that since it means very old equipment, chance of fungus and other nasty issues is very high. Minolta CLE you basically can't find anywhere, and the cost is also very high, not to mention it is electronic. So, my point being, its not about Leica, its about RangeFinders, and I cant find really anything that is not an SLR that would make sense.
--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
Last edited:
A lot depends on one's shooting style. I don't do action, so autofocus, winders, etc. don't matter to me. I always gravitated to all manual cameras, manly RFs, including medium format ones, and TLRs. No real easy solution with the age of many of our target cameras and to a certain extent lack of servicing. I have a beautiful Ricoh TLR right now that I can't support spending $300 for a needed shutter repair.
I can't judge from a distance, but a Leica might make sense from a re-sale perspective, but, as someone noted, servicing is expensive.
You are a discriminating individual, nothing wrong with that. But the world is still awash in 35mm SLRs. Minolta and Pentax turned out millions of affordable, serviceable cameras. I had Nikon FMs. Never got into Canons. But have tried others as a hobby-the first electronic Pentaxes and Minoltas. Konica.
If I were looking for a 35mm SLR today, I would look to Minolta.
If you are shooting color and have a service process the film, 35mm makes sense to me. If you are staying with black and white and processing yourself, only medium format (or larger) makes sense to me. There is a riches of different platforms and image aspects-645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9. Even in medium format, I concentrated on RF cameras. MY favorite of all time, Mamiya Press/Universal System.
Good luck.
I can't judge from a distance, but a Leica might make sense from a re-sale perspective, but, as someone noted, servicing is expensive.
You are a discriminating individual, nothing wrong with that. But the world is still awash in 35mm SLRs. Minolta and Pentax turned out millions of affordable, serviceable cameras. I had Nikon FMs. Never got into Canons. But have tried others as a hobby-the first electronic Pentaxes and Minoltas. Konica.
If I were looking for a 35mm SLR today, I would look to Minolta.
If you are shooting color and have a service process the film, 35mm makes sense to me. If you are staying with black and white and processing yourself, only medium format (or larger) makes sense to me. There is a riches of different platforms and image aspects-645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9. Even in medium format, I concentrated on RF cameras. MY favorite of all time, Mamiya Press/Universal System.
Good luck.
If that's what you want from a camera and budget is no longer a problem, then yes, go for it.
Personally I'd go for an Olympus 35SP or Yashica Electro35 if I wanted a rangefinder. They're quiet, they have great lenses and they're much, much cheaper. I'd use the €1500 difference in price on film...
Personally I'd go for an Olympus 35SP or Yashica Electro35 if I wanted a rangefinder. They're quiet, they have great lenses and they're much, much cheaper. I'd use the €1500 difference in price on film...
You wouldnt believe if I told you that same store had a pristine Olympus 35 SP when i purchased the OM-2N. I was really into the 35 SP for a long time, but the one i found locally was sold before i arrived, and when I found the current store i had given up on it and decided for the OM-2N. I almost went with the 35 instead. Of coursr they already sold that camera.
If that was still available, i probably would have gone with It, even though some factors worried me such as battery that is no longer made, needing expensive custom ones or adapter to use ones with different voltages which might make the lightmeter not reliable, and fixed 40mm lens, which i find a bit too tight for overall use.
Budget is a problem. But i got a bit of spare and its the only time i will have this opportunity, as the year comes to a close i probably wont be able to spend such money anymore. I do think of investment value as well of course, so its on my mind that i can probably get the money back if i ever decide so.
verybiglebowski
Veteran Member
You might also consider Leica CL. Most will have a metering problem, but otherwise, they are fully mechanical, relatively easy to service (except for the metering), cheaper and smaller than Leica M2/M3. Summicron 40/2 is close to 35 and very nice (small) lens.
Since M2/M3 doesn’t have metering too, that should not concern you.
On the negative side, viewfinder and rangefinder are better on M2/M3, but otherwise, CL is a great choice.
I sold my M6 TTL and kept CL for M mount. (I also had Zeiss Ikon ZM and it has the most beautiful viewfinder I ever saw on any camera, but I was afraid of electronic failure and sold it too).
Regarding Olympus, OM-1/N is a fully mechanical camera, it can be relatively easily converted to 1,5V, and it can be found for a very affordable price in a good working condition. It is not much bigger than my Leica M6 was, but it is a noisier for sure.
Also OM3 and 3Ti are mechanical, but more expensive.
Leica M2/M3 are very good cameras, but not failure proof, and as Leica M’s they are very expensive IMHO. That’s why I mentioned Leica CL as an interesting alternative. If mechanically good, the only thing to watch for is a good rangefinder visibility.
--
verybiglobo.com
500px.com
Since M2/M3 doesn’t have metering too, that should not concern you.
On the negative side, viewfinder and rangefinder are better on M2/M3, but otherwise, CL is a great choice.
I sold my M6 TTL and kept CL for M mount. (I also had Zeiss Ikon ZM and it has the most beautiful viewfinder I ever saw on any camera, but I was afraid of electronic failure and sold it too).
Regarding Olympus, OM-1/N is a fully mechanical camera, it can be relatively easily converted to 1,5V, and it can be found for a very affordable price in a good working condition. It is not much bigger than my Leica M6 was, but it is a noisier for sure.
Also OM3 and 3Ti are mechanical, but more expensive.
Leica M2/M3 are very good cameras, but not failure proof, and as Leica M’s they are very expensive IMHO. That’s why I mentioned Leica CL as an interesting alternative. If mechanically good, the only thing to watch for is a good rangefinder visibility.
--
Verybiglobo photo blog
Everything about photography incl. some field tests of cameras and lenses
verybiglobo.com
500px
Nice post Yes the Leica M2/M3 prices have sure crept up as have the lenses even the unkept cupboard dwelling Leicas
from the OP
Pity about the show pony stuff
Last edited:
Very solid advices! Thank you!
I have been looking at Leica CL. Hard to find, but I read somewhere only 60.000 were made? If so makes sense. I will confess I don't find it very pleasing to eyes due to where they put that ISO? selection, in the front of the camera. But i couldn't care less about this if the camera performs well.
The store I use doesn't have it unfortunately, and I only found two so far outside of unregulated Marketplaces, going for around 800 euros. Cheaper than a M2, but it's not a cheap purchase. I think the price have inflated a lot? This had much better prices not long ago i imagine. As anything Film these days.
I have always looked for Minolta CLE, seems like a wonderful camera. but electronic unfortunately so higher chances of failure, and also very very hard to find.
I have been looking at Leica CL. Hard to find, but I read somewhere only 60.000 were made? If so makes sense. I will confess I don't find it very pleasing to eyes due to where they put that ISO? selection, in the front of the camera. But i couldn't care less about this if the camera performs well.
The store I use doesn't have it unfortunately, and I only found two so far outside of unregulated Marketplaces, going for around 800 euros. Cheaper than a M2, but it's not a cheap purchase. I think the price have inflated a lot? This had much better prices not long ago i imagine. As anything Film these days.
I have always looked for Minolta CLE, seems like a wonderful camera. but electronic unfortunately so higher chances of failure, and also very very hard to find.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum