HDR images can embed gain maps, which allows them to be viewed correctly on SDR monitors and tools. With LrC, I can embed gain maps only in HDR JPEGs. Adobe has a tool called Gain Map Demo App, which allows the study of embedded gain maps.
Apple Preview cannot handle HDR images. You must use the Photos app.From what I can see LR allows you to export a jpeg but when looking at it in Preview it doesn't matter what monitor it is on it doesn't seem to show as HDR.But that is my question. How do you post an HDR image? As a normal jpeg or something else? If you export in LR as a jpeg and have edited in HDR, what happens? Does the jpeg contain the extended info? If it does, how will it display on a monitor with no HDR?… you create an HDR image and post it here, is it going to look like blown highlights to everyone with an SDR monitor?
And when you print it how do you match what you see to what you get?
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... Mike, formerly known as Rod.
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
AVIF works for me, but I prefer JPEGs as they can embed gain maps.
To share HDRs, you must currently link to other sharing sites (Zonerama, iCloud, Google Photos, etc.) that support HDR photos. I hope DPR will add HDR support.
In the export menu, select JPEG and "HDR Output." If you intend to share the image on the web, you should probably use sRGB color space and increase the JPEG quality setting above what you usually use.But that is my question. How do you post an HDR image? As a normal jpeg or something else? If you export in LR as a jpeg and have edited in HDR, what happens? Does the jpeg contain the extended info? If it does, how will it display on a monitor with no HDR?… you create an HDR image and post it here, is it going to look like blown highlights to everyone with an SDR monitor?
And when you print it how do you match what you see to what you get?
--
... Mike, formerly known as Rod.
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
This is the whole crux is now for us.
Thanks. I'm figuring that out now in LR. I export full size 90 percent quality jpegs from my GFX and Q3 raw files for two reasons - to display here and on Flicker. That is it. So it is pretty obvious that this is not ready for prime time, at least not for me yet. But I will view my full size raw files on HDR on my PC monitor. That has a wow factor but only I see it.In the export menu, select JPEG and "HDR Output." If you intend to share the image on the web, you should probably use sRGB color space and increase the JPEG quality setting above what you usually use.But that is my question. How do you post an HDR image? As a normal jpeg or something else? If you export in LR as a jpeg and have edited in HDR, what happens? Does the jpeg contain the extended info? If it does, how will it display on a monitor with no HDR?… you create an HDR image and post it here, is it going to look like blown highlights to everyone with an SDR monitor?
And when you print it how do you match what you see to what you get?
--
... Mike, formerly known as Rod.
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
This is the whole crux is now for us.
If you want the image to look good on an SDR device, select "Preview for SDR display" in LrC and tweak the settings. The gain maps needed to view the image on the SDR device will be embedded in the exported JPEG.
Sites like Zonerama, iCloud Photos (Mac), and Google Photos allow you to upload and view HDR images.
Thanks for pointing out that the headroom varies with the monitor brightness setting. This makes sense, as the detail above a certain level will not be visible for editing if the monitor is too bright. I do not think it affects the output, but it helps to adjust your monitor brightness so that you can edit the highlights correctlyFor those of you without Lightroom or an HDR monitor, here are a few histograms of one of my images with different screen settings. Image from a GFX 100s using the Acros simulation.
This first screenshot is without the HDR button pressed and is the same for all of my MacBook Pro's screen settings.
This next image is with my screen set to emulate sRGB:
Two things to note. First, there is a new red-colored area on the histogram labeled "HDR." This shows you the image values that are above the SDR range. Unfortunately, since they are in red, they are outside the sRGB range and will display as pure white. But you can see that there real values there, potentially displayable.
The second thing to note--and this is important!--is that the histogram in the SDR range--although squeezed visually, is more or less unchanged. You can see the same contours in both, although I'm not clear why the rise at the end of the non-HDR histogram is not showing.
Now, changing the screen display to P3 (your new-ish TV probably uses P3) greatly enlarges the luminance values available to be displayed. This is exactly the same histogram as in the HDR sRGB example but the red is gone and all but the very last bit of the histogram is displayable. The values displayed from left of the white line (the SDR values) are not changed. Areas of the image that previously were pure white now have detail--about 1.25 stops more hightlight "headroom." (each bar in the right part of the histogram represents one stop.)
If I set my MacBook Pro to its best screen setting (XDR) the highlight area enlarges even more:
In the case of this image, that last little bit of the histogram will now show. And there is still another 1.75 stops of data that could have been displayed had my file contained that data.
Of course, in all of these cases, you can use the normal tools to shift and expand/contract the histogram as you see fit, moving data out of the grayed out area, etc). Your usable area will, as you can see, vary by the monitor (or simulation) being used.
That all seems very easy to understand. Now here's the confusing part. The headroom area varies not only by monitor but by the brightness setting on that monitor. For example, if I lower my MacBook Pro's brightness setting (while Display is set to XDR) to slightly under its halfway point, the HDR area on the histogram grows to four stops rather than the three shown. If I then brighten the image the HDR area begins to shrink, reaching two stops at my computer's brightest setting.
Thus, brightening the image will clip the highlights. I tested this by increasing the exposure of the image in Lightroom until the right areas of the data touched the right edge--a full-range histogram. At the low brightness setting, I could see detail in the highlight areas. As I brightened the screen the highlights became increasingly blown, as you might expect, knowing that the usable highlight headroom is shrinking. I do not observe this occurring when changing the brightness of the screen on the image with the HDR button turned off.
I have not yet exported an HDR file and tried this test again. If this highlight issue is present in the final image or movie file it will obviously present a significant issue to knowing how your image will look when displayed. I'm hoping someone here can help clarify what is going on and what the solution might be.
Zonerama also has processing tools that allow HDR output. I do not have experience with it.
You can also use Google Photos, Zonerama, and sometimes Instagram, as its HDR support is slowly being rolled out.
The current problem is editing. We edit one version for SDR and print and another (virtual copy) for HDR.Thanks. I'm figuring that out now in LR. I export full size 90 percent quality jpegs from my GFX and Q3 raw files for two reasons - to display here and on Flicker. That is it. So it is pretty obvious that this is not ready for prime time, at least not for me yet. But I will view my full size raw files on HDR on my PC monitor. That has a wow factor but only I see it.In the export menu, select JPEG and "HDR Output." If you intend to share the image on the web, you should probably use sRGB color space and increase the JPEG quality setting above what you usually use.But that is my question. How do you post an HDR image? As a normal jpeg or something else? If you export in LR as a jpeg and have edited in HDR, what happens? Does the jpeg contain the extended info? If it does, how will it display on a monitor with no HDR?… you create an HDR image and post it here, is it going to look like blown highlights to everyone with an SDR monitor?
And when you print it how do you match what you see to what you get?
--
... Mike, formerly known as Rod.
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
This is the whole crux is now for us.
If you want the image to look good on an SDR device, select "Preview for SDR display" in LrC and tweak the settings. The gain maps needed to view the image on the SDR device will be embedded in the exported JPEG.
Sites like Zonerama, iCloud Photos (Mac), and Google Photos allow you to upload and view HDR images.
I can see exporting the file is the problem. It is going to have to be plain old jpeg for a while. But that is the beauty or raw. We can do whatever we want with them 10 years from now using whatever tools are new and available because we have these very high res raw files....
Agreed. Even LrC's Library and Slideshow do not seem to support HDR mode. In the meantime, we can experiment and learn about it, and I hope it will become a standard way to view images on a display.
I've gotta play with this. I will export some HDR files (jpegs?) from LRc to here and Flickr and see what it looks like on that end.
Do not see your image. I am trying a JPEG with gain maps adjusted for SDR viewing (sRGB color space):
I feel editing HDR for two stops extra headroom leads to best results in most cases.
Great post and exactly why I won't edit in HDR except to play with it and see it on my screen at home. No way I export a file with it because who knows what it is being viewed on or if it will blow out the highlights on other monitors.
Great tips. Keep them coming. I'm still going to be worried about exporting anything that has had HDR editing of the highlights. - not knowing what effect, it might have on someone else's viewing.
Agreed. Although I wouldn't so much be worried about buyers being disappointed, as troubled over the extra time I spent outputting files for a presentation medium I'm not remotely interested in.
Interesting. Is your HDR panel OLED 4K? Is your pro IPS monitor 4K? What they are and their capabilities matters in all of this. But as long as you know your monitors and what you are looking at (plus what is being left on the table because of what you do not have), then you are ahead of most of us. The problem still remains of how you output because you don't know what the audience is looking at it on.
