I would wait a while to see how the current Intel debacle pans out. If urgent I would buy an AMD today but AMD have had CPU problems in the past too.
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Intel Problems With 13th & 14th Gen CPUs
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tbcass
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Generally speaking, computers and last for a very long time. It's the Software that requires ever more powerful computers to work well that is the problem. The computer I own now is one year old but the Windows 10 computer it replaced was about 8 years old. The reason I replaced it was because the new Video Editing software I bought would barely function taking an hour or more to render a video.
Update as OP.
See this link regarding the oxidation issue Intel cooking the Ring Bus on dying 13th and 14th Gen Core CPUs, says leaker
(Intel Foundry Services) can tell you that Raptor Lake was rushed through our Fab in Arizona in record time, but it's also produced in other fabs. However, this location (Arizona) is notable because I can confirm that there was an Oxidation issue by some failure in our HVAC system between March & June 2023. It was so bad that Keyvan Esfarjani had to fly in to make a decision about which wafers (which cost as much as Model X each) needed to be thrown away. To be clear, I don't know what decision was made, but I do know that this event DID happen. And by the way, it affected Sapphire Rapids yields as well, although I doubt it's an issue wasn't fixed by now".
Although the box says my CPU was made in Vietnam, I note this is an assembly plant not a fab plant which is the source of the oxidation problems. See list of Intel plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites
This probably means the silicon wafers for my Core i7-13700K CPU could still have been manufactured in the US but then there are many fab plants in the US. Does anyone know the sites where the Core i7-13700K wafers are fabricated?
My i7-13700K batch number is X237F982 which means the CPU was manufactured week 37 in 2022 which was 12 September 2022. This date is well clear of the March - June 23 period mentioned above for the Arizona plant having oxidation issues so hopefully my CPU is fine. I've always set a thermal limit of 85C from new so the other over voltage issue hopefully is OK too.
See this link regarding the oxidation issue Intel cooking the Ring Bus on dying 13th and 14th Gen Core CPUs, says leaker
(Intel Foundry Services) can tell you that Raptor Lake was rushed through our Fab in Arizona in record time, but it's also produced in other fabs. However, this location (Arizona) is notable because I can confirm that there was an Oxidation issue by some failure in our HVAC system between March & June 2023. It was so bad that Keyvan Esfarjani had to fly in to make a decision about which wafers (which cost as much as Model X each) needed to be thrown away. To be clear, I don't know what decision was made, but I do know that this event DID happen. And by the way, it affected Sapphire Rapids yields as well, although I doubt it's an issue wasn't fixed by now".
Although the box says my CPU was made in Vietnam, I note this is an assembly plant not a fab plant which is the source of the oxidation problems. See list of Intel plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_manufacturing_sites
This probably means the silicon wafers for my Core i7-13700K CPU could still have been manufactured in the US but then there are many fab plants in the US. Does anyone know the sites where the Core i7-13700K wafers are fabricated?
My i7-13700K batch number is X237F982 which means the CPU was manufactured week 37 in 2022 which was 12 September 2022. This date is well clear of the March - June 23 period mentioned above for the Arizona plant having oxidation issues so hopefully my CPU is fine. I've always set a thermal limit of 85C from new so the other over voltage issue hopefully is OK too.
tbcass
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Debacle? Let's be real. This is being blown way out of proportion to reality. The problem seems to be with "Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen unlocked desktop processors experiencing issues with certain workloads," The problem is apparently isolated to servers, development systems, and gaming PCs. There is a BIOS fix on the way.
Intel 13th and 14th Gen 'Raptor Lake' instability troubles: Everything you need to know | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)
tbcass
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14th gen has the same issue.
The issue is it's happening even too systems that aren't being pushed that hard. There's game servers which use these chips at stock power settings on server boards just running all the time and they're failing. Which means it's a cumulative issue on the hardware, since these systems are running 24/7 the average consumer system might take a while to get to that point.
Also it's not one where the only way it's going to impact you is just a blue screen. It's causing all sorts of background errors which then often compound to then eventually crash a system.
In general AMD 7000 seems like a completely safe buy right now as it's been out for a while with no major hardware issues.
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tbcass
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Why haven't I had a problem with my 1 year old computer? Not a single crash or any stability problems even when pushing it hard for video rendering. Maybe it happens only with certain motherboards. Mine is a DELL.
No - Intel admit the thermal problems affecting all 13th & 14th gen CPUs over 65W and there is also a premature oxidation issue affecting CPUs produced in their Arizona plant during mid 2023.
My i7-13700K CPU has had no problems but I have set conservative power limits and a maximum CPU temperature of 85C
Robert Zanatta
Senior Member
The Intel patch will likely change the voltage "spike" that occurs when the core is ramped up for a task (which lowers vdroop). Too much vdroop and you get instability.
Currently you can change the VR voltage limit in the BIOS and get something similar to what the patch will be. The limit is set to a pretty high default value - like 1700mV. Set it to a lower value, such as 1400mV, and that will help a lot to prolong the life of the CPU. The downside is that the maximum boost clock for a core will decrease. For example, at 1400mV my processor's max boost clock is 5800Mhz, whereas at around 1500mV it's 5900Mhz to 6000Mhz. Not a big deal as it only affects single core loads. When all core are loaded the frequency drops a lot as does the core voltage (it's around 1120mV on my processor).
Currently you can change the VR voltage limit in the BIOS and get something similar to what the patch will be. The limit is set to a pretty high default value - like 1700mV. Set it to a lower value, such as 1400mV, and that will help a lot to prolong the life of the CPU. The downside is that the maximum boost clock for a core will decrease. For example, at 1400mV my processor's max boost clock is 5800Mhz, whereas at around 1500mV it's 5900Mhz to 6000Mhz. Not a big deal as it only affects single core loads. When all core are loaded the frequency drops a lot as does the core voltage (it's around 1120mV on my processor).
tbcass
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Would that be covered under unlocked processors being overclocked and running hot?
Since that is about the time, I bought my computer it was probably manufactured before that.
potentially because it is just 1 year old and this is a progressive failure, akin to radiation poisoning. We saw a somewhat similar fault with the Celeron Bay Trail a few years ago. This cpu was commonly used on QNAPs and other set top devices and its failure was just a matter of time. Intel did nothing for those folks.
That sounds like a bad run, happens, and Intel should identify those by serial and recall. We’ll see if they do it though. Corporations these days have to get hit by a suit to do the right thing these days. This sounds like an outlier that got identified during investigations of root cause.
The larger issue? Voltage. So long as your CPU is fine now? Continue to update your bios and microcode when it becomes available and you should be fine.
If, your CPU is already “cooked” (thermal damage)? Contact Intel and get that ball rolling. Over voltage damage is irreversible. More voltage than needed can contribute to premature wear though, absolutely. In my experience, this manifests easily under the right conditions though. But, I’d advise waiting for stress testing till microcode updates are published before you do that. Chicken and the egg problem as “squeaky” processors squeak, under stress, also where the problem can originate in this case. Catch 22.
I have just become aware of this issue so I don't know much about it. But after a brief reading of some of the articles is seems like the major motherboard manufacturers have issued BIOS updates to prevent (?) damage to any CPU that have not yet been damaged (did I get that right?).
I built this PC in February of 2023 and it has an Intel Core i7 13700K cpu on a ASUS STRIX Z790-E motherboard. As I look today I see that ASUS have issued 7 BIOS updates this calendar year (for my combination cpu & mb).
latest BIOS from ASUS
I don't know that my cpu is damaged or that I am experiencing the exact symptoms, but I do get mysterious restarts from Windows 11 from time to time and the occasional BSOD.
My temptation is to apply this new BIOS, Should I wait?
Peter
I built this PC in February of 2023 and it has an Intel Core i7 13700K cpu on a ASUS STRIX Z790-E motherboard. As I look today I see that ASUS have issued 7 BIOS updates this calendar year (for my combination cpu & mb).
latest BIOS from ASUS
I don't know that my cpu is damaged or that I am experiencing the exact symptoms, but I do get mysterious restarts from Windows 11 from time to time and the occasional BSOD.
My temptation is to apply this new BIOS, Should I wait?
Peter
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For at least one manufacturer (Gigabyte) the latest BIOS for my 13th gen desktop appears to be a "beta"; labeled F12f. The released versions in the past haven't had the letter after the version number.I have just become aware of this issue so I don't know much about it. But after a brief reading of some of the articles is seems like the major motherboard manufacturers have issued BIOS updates to prevent (?) damage to any CPU that have not yet been damaged (did I get that right?).
I built this PC in February of 2023 and it has an Intel Core i7 13700K cpu on a ASUS STRIX Z790-E motherboard. As I look today I see that ASUS have issued 7 BIOS updates this calendar year (for my combination cpu & mb).
latest BIOS from ASUS
I don't know that my cpu is damaged or that I am experiencing the exact symptoms, but I do get mysterious restarts from Windows 11 from time to time and the occasional BSOD.
My temptation is to apply this new BIOS, Should I wait?
Peter
I plan to wait for a release BIOS, since no problems so far for me. I've seen Gigabyte withdraw previous betas, so presumably those BIOSes had problems. I'll take my chances till then.
However, if I'd had mysterious restarts like you, I'd go ahead and install the latest fix. Unexplained crashes are no fun, I hope that fixes your problem.
I have the same CPU and an Asus Z790 board with no issues on an older BIOS. Some people are having issues with the beta BIOS just released so I'm going to wait a few days for the full release.I have just become aware of this issue so I don't know much about it. But after a brief reading of some of the articles is seems like the major motherboard manufacturers have issued BIOS updates to prevent (?) damage to any CPU that have not yet been damaged (did I get that right?).
I built this PC in February of 2023 and it has an Intel Core i7 13700K cpu on a ASUS STRIX Z790-E motherboard. As I look today I see that ASUS have issued 7 BIOS updates this calendar year (for my combination cpu & mb).
latest BIOS from ASUS
I don't know that my cpu is damaged or that I am experiencing the exact symptoms, but I do get mysterious restarts from Windows 11 from time to time and the occasional BSOD.
My temptation is to apply this new BIOS, Should I wait?
Peter
Billiam29
Senior Member
I'm probably grasping at straws here, but this is certainly an interesting coincidence. Has anyone else seen any reference as to whether this may be related to what's going on with the 13th and 14th gen. CPUs?
While this is from early February, 2024, keep in mind that's just when the court decision was handed down. The overall legal conflict may have originated some time before that.
While this is from early February, 2024, keep in mind that's just when the court decision was handed down. The overall legal conflict may have originated some time before that.
https://www.techpowerup.com/318867/german-court-prohibits-intel-processor-sales-amid-patent-dispute
See these theads on Asus and Windows 11 forums:
https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/intel...ility-reports-on-intel-core-13th/td-p/1030853
https://www.elevenforum.com/t/new-microcode-for-intel-13th-and-14th-gen-issues.27453/
The main issue is a microde software error causing voltage spikes and possible premature CPU failure. There is also a premature CPU failure problem due to oxidation due a manufacuring problem at Intel's fab plant in Arizona during mid 2023. Not related to your point I think.
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Billiam29
Senior Member
To clarify, what I meant by “related” was could this prior legal issue with the 10th through 12th gen parts have been a contributing factor for why Intel changed something related to voltage regulation with the subsequent generation CPUs and possibly screwed up doing so? At least where the controlling microcode was concerned.
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Robert Zanatta
Senior Member
I have just become aware of this issue so I don't know much about it. But after a brief reading of some of the articles is seems like the major motherboard manufacturers have issued BIOS updates to prevent (?) damage to any CPU that have not yet been damaged (did I get that right?).
I built this PC in February of 2023 and it has an Intel Core i7 13700K cpu on a ASUS STRIX Z790-E motherboard. As I look today I see that ASUS have issued 7 BIOS updates this calendar year (for my combination cpu & mb).
latest BIOS from ASUS
I don't know that my cpu is damaged or that I am experiencing the exact symptoms, but I do get mysterious restarts from Windows 11 from time to time and the occasional BSOD.
My temptation is to apply this new BIOS, Should I wait?
Peter
I installed the updated BIOS. It has no effect on performance and passed stress tests. It does reduce the VID spike when the processor attempts to anticipate VDROOP, so that is a good thing as the spike was excessive (like in the 1.6V range).
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