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xpatUSA

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... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)

--
What you got is not what you saw.
 
Last edited:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
Ted,

Agreed, but I use my Quattros more. My SD9 is a trophy from the past, put away when I got the SD10 and all the rest.

S
 
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm with you, Ted. Horrible, really...
 
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
The worst part isn't just that it is computational. It is that with every update there is a potential that IQ and alg behavior are gonna change, making it impossible to develop any skill/habit of shooting with iPhone.

I def recall how they made significant changes in the past, which I disliked and I couldn't even undo those..
 
Last edited:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm mainly with you on this.

Professor John Anderson, my "reality" guru, would have been having a jolly good belly laugh at all this AI nonsense.

I'm quite happy choosing my own apertures, my focus spot, and pressing the shutter button myself. I do not need "subject detection" or any of the other focus aids ("wide area - small" is just one of the Nikon choices currently.

I'm quite happy being a photographic luddite.
 
Last edited:
Karl Huber said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm mainly with you on this.

Professor John Anderson, my "reality" guru, would have been having a jolly good belly laugh at all this AI nonsense.

I'm quite happy choosing my own apertures, my focus spot, and pressing the shutter button myself. I do not need "subject detection" or any of the other focus aids ("wide area - small" is just one of the Nikon choices currently.

I'm quite happy being a photographic luddite.
Click to expand...
Good man!
 
Stillton said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
The worst part isn't just that it is computational. It is that with every update there is a potential that IQ and alg behavior are gonna change, making it impossible to develop any skill/habit of shooting with iPhone.
I def recall how they made significant changes in the past, which I disliked and I couldn't even undo those..
Click to expand...
I believe Apple has gone mainstream, and in doing so they have done exactly what Microsoft did years before them, with the Windows operating system. I guess it's a natural progression of things. I mean if you're making products for the masses, then you're needing to make them affordable, right? If you're making them affordable and easy to use, then you're not going to make them for professionals, or people who are "in the know" . . . right? The weird thing is that Apple started off with the idea of making things simple, and then they made things for professionals, and now they've gone back to trying to make things simple again. I guess development and growth comes in waves. Maybe it was related to Steve Jobs though. Maybe it was the result of each time he left the company. Often, when an iconic leader leaves a company/country the result is a gradual degradation over time after that person has left. Things have a natural tendency to fall apart.

I believe that if Steve Jobs was still running Apple, and in good health, then that company would include "professional" features in most of their products, so you would have the ability to turn off the AI functionality of the photographic tools in a new iPhone, if you want. Actually, maybe you still can, but it's so difficult to figure out how to do it that you weren't able to get that done. Smartphones have become so complicated that you need an engineering degree to figure them out these days. I'm reminded of the menu system in my Nikon D810. It's quite ridiculous. Apparently Sony's high-end cameras are worse (or were worse a few years ago - maybe they've improved that situation by now).

--
Scott Barton Kennelly
https://www.bigprintphotos.com
https://www.sigmaphotopro.com
https://www.sigmacamerapro.com
 
Last edited:
xpatUSA said:
Karl Huber said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm mainly with you on this.

Professor John Anderson, my "reality" guru, would have been having a jolly good belly laugh at all this AI nonsense.

I'm quite happy choosing my own apertures, my focus spot, and pressing the shutter button myself. I do not need "subject detection" or any of the other focus aids ("wide area - small" is just one of the Nikon choices currently.

I'm quite happy being a photographic luddite.
Click to expand...
Good man!
Click to expand...
I have three different Sigma digital cameras, and at my age I don't need or want any more.

Still have a NEX 5n, which really is quite good enough for serious work if you put a good lens on it. (Nikon F manual-focus lenses are very good, for instance. So are the Pentax SMC-Takumars.)

I think almost any camera with 10 Megapixels or more is OK. (Nex5n has 16.)

Don
 
Scottelly said:
Stillton said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
The worst part isn't just that it is computational. It is that with every update there is a potential that IQ and alg behavior are gonna change, making it impossible to develop any skill/habit of shooting with iPhone.
I def recall how they made significant changes in the past, which I disliked and I couldn't even undo those..
Click to expand...
I believe Apple has gone mainstream, and in doing so they have done exactly what Microsoft did years before them, with the Windows operating system.
Click to expand...
What?

Microsoft stole Windows from Apple who in turn based their system on work by Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center).
 
xpatUSA said:
Microsoft stole Windows from Apple who in turn based their system on work by Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center).
Click to expand...
MS actually wrote a lot of the software for the original Mac. Apple didn't have the resources to do it all itself so Gates offered to help them out.

Jan
 
Karl Huber said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm mainly with you on this.

Professor John Anderson, my "reality" guru, would have been having a jolly good belly laugh at all this AI nonsense.

I'm quite happy choosing my own apertures, my focus spot, and pressing the shutter button myself. I do not need "subject detection" or any of the other focus aids ("wide area - small" is just one of the Nikon choices currently.

I'm quite happy being a photographic luddite.
Click to expand...
I've shot film using manual cameras since 1968, setting focus, shutter and iris on every shot.

When I got into digital I continued to do the same, but I found myself screwing up because of all the other settings that had to be set. ISO, white balance, mode, quality, raw or not, 5 different colour levels, anti shake on or off, exposure compensation, The choices are endless and I kept forgetting something because I was so used to just adjusting shutter, iris and focus. Just finding the iris and shutter controls can be a challenge, hello DP2M.

In many ways the automation is necessary because cameras have gotten very complicated but managing the automation is much harder than just doing it yourself.

Jan
 
You might like this site: http://cameraergonomics.blogspot.com/

Measuring Ergonomics

One of the aims of this blog is to raise consumer awareness of ergonomic factors in camera design, together with exploring the contribution ...
cameraergonomics.blogspot.com cameraergonomics.blogspot.com

The owner has some very fiercely defended views on how cameras should be designed for usability. I don't always agree with him, but I'm supportive of the spirit of what he does.
 
Last edited:
jande9 said:
xpatUSA said:
Microsoft stole Windows from Apple who in turn based their system on work by Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center).
Click to expand...
MS actually wrote a lot of the software for the original Mac. Apple didn't have the resources to do it all itself so Gates offered to help them out.

Jan
Click to expand...
Microsoft wrote some apps for the Mac but definitely not the windows/mouse Operating System.

There were third-party apps too: I had DBMaster which was quite good.

--
What you got is not what you saw.
 
Last edited:
jande9 said:
Karl Huber said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm mainly with you on this.

Professor John Anderson, my "reality" guru, would have been having a jolly good belly laugh at all this AI nonsense.

I'm quite happy choosing my own apertures, my focus spot, and pressing the shutter button myself. I do not need "subject detection" or any of the other focus aids ("wide area - small" is just one of the Nikon choices currently.

I'm quite happy being a photographic luddite.
Click to expand...
I've shot film using manual cameras since 1968, setting focus, shutter and iris on every shot.

When I got into digital I continued to do the same, but I found myself screwing up because of all the other settings that had to be set. ISO, white balance, mode, quality, raw or not, 5 different colour levels, anti shake on or off, exposure compensation, The choices are endless and I kept forgetting something because I was so used to just adjusting shutter, iris and focus. Just finding the iris and shutter controls can be a challenge, hello DP2M.
Click to expand...
Yes, I remember when the separate shutter speed knob disappeared with the advent of the SD14.
jande9 said:
In many ways the automation is necessary because cameras have gotten very complicated but managing the automation is much harder than just doing it yourself.
Click to expand...
My Lumix DC-G9 has lain fallow for several years for that very reason ... should sell it really ...
 
xpatUSA said:
Scottelly said:
Stillton said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
The worst part isn't just that it is computational. It is that with every update there is a potential that IQ and alg behavior are gonna change, making it impossible to develop any skill/habit of shooting with iPhone.
I def recall how they made significant changes in the past, which I disliked and I couldn't even undo those..
Click to expand...
I believe Apple has gone mainstream, and in doing so they have done exactly what Microsoft did years before them, with the Windows operating system.
Click to expand...
What?

Microsoft stole Windows from Apple
Click to expand...
No, they realized that using a graphical interface, with a mouse, was an intelligent way to simplify the operation of a computer, and an essential step in order to make computers more versatile and user-friendly, just as Steve Jobs did, when he saw that Xerox system. Bill Gates decided to build Windows, and it was horrible, and practically unusable, until Windows 3.0. I didn't start using Windows until version 3.1, but my brother used earlier versions.

Microsoft did indeed develop Windows. I'd be very surprised if Apple "helped" program such a piece of garbage. Windows didn't get to the point of being reliable until Windows XP had been upgraded several times. Windows 95 was a lot better than Windows 3.1, and windows 98 was even better. I used several computers with those versions too. I used Windows 2000 at work, but it was Windows XP that finally brought Windows up to be competitive with Apple's OS 9 and eventually OSX.

I only got a Mac because I started shooting a lot of digital photos, and wanted to use Aperture. I love Aperture, and I still feel betrayed by Apple (because they stopped developing it, and now it's gone with the wind). I bought Aperture for $300! My sister-in-law gave me the upgrade for Christmas. All that money is gone now . . . wasted.

🤨
xpatUSA said:
who in turn based their system on work by Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center).

--
What you got is not what you saw.
Click to expand...
--
Scott Barton Kennelly
https://www.bigprintphotos.com
https://www.sigmaphotopro.com
https://www.sigmacamerapro.com
 
Last edited:
jande9 said:
Karl Huber said:
xpatUSA said:
... or just leave it all up to Apple ...

https://petapixel.com/2024/07/25/apple-may-use-a-samsung-sensor-in-the-iphone-as-soon-as-2026/

“We replicate as much as we can to what the photographer will do in post,” Apple’s Vice President, Camera Software Engineering Jon McCormack told PetaPixel earlier this year. “There are two sides to taking a photo: the exposure, and how you develop it afterwards. We use a lot of computational photography in exposure, but more and more in post and doing that automatically for you. The goal of this is to make photographs that look more true to life, to replicate what it was like to actually be there.”

Good grief ...

... I think I'll stick with everything in manual and no computational aids e.g. the SD9.

Anybody with me?

P.S. "to actually be" ... reminiscent of that infamous split infinitive "to boldly go" ;-)
Click to expand...
I'm mainly with you on this.

Professor John Anderson, my "reality" guru, would have been having a jolly good belly laugh at all this AI nonsense.

I'm quite happy choosing my own apertures, my focus spot, and pressing the shutter button myself. I do not need "subject detection" or any of the other focus aids ("wide area - small" is just one of the Nikon choices currently.

I'm quite happy being a photographic luddite.
Click to expand...
I've shot film using manual cameras since 1968, setting focus, shutter and iris on every shot.

When I got into digital I continued to do the same, but I found myself screwing up because of all the other settings that had to be set. ISO, white balance, mode, quality, raw or not, 5 different colour levels, anti shake on or off, exposure compensation, The choices are endless and I kept forgetting something because I was so used to just adjusting shutter, iris and focus. Just finding the iris and shutter controls can be a challenge, hello DP2M.

In many ways the automation is necessary because cameras have gotten very complicated but managing the automation is much harder than just doing it yourself.

Jan
Click to expand...
I just keep my front dial for shutter speed and my rear dial for aperture Jan. ISO stays at 100 most of the time. I keep white balance on Daylight most of the time, but those two get changed by using Menus if I want to change them, except I use the Quick menu on my Sigma camera, and my Nikon has an ISO button.
 
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