Should I quit Film Photography?

lmans100

nameless0ne

I am among those who arent a fan of the half frame setup of the Pentax 17. Otherwise It would surely be considered by me. Beautiful camera got to see It personally at the local store

The Rollei though is more of my thing. I will be waiting for reviews, the original seem to be a blast to go out and shoot, i wonder how the AF impacts the experience, looking fwd to first owners review

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You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef

Alec246 said:

Gesture said:

I've said before and will say it again.

The larger the format the easier the photography.

35mm black and white, in particular, takes much knowledge and mastery of technique.

I used to see students in photography programs struggle with 35mm when a simple Yashica TLR would have yielded more rapid progress and wonderful images. I'd trade all my Kodachromes 50-100 to one for the images as 120 2-1/4 slides.

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Thats something to consider, yes!

I never thought going medium format before "mastering" 35mm would be a wise choice. I always had 35mm as first step, then medium format when yoh have matured as a photographer, specially with shooting film. Maybe i was wrong?

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Well, they are more expensive than what you find locally, but what you found after wasn't working. That's why they're more expensive.

If you don't want to have all those problems you complained about in your post, pay extra to get tested equipment. If you want to try your luck with cheaper offers, be ready for the non working ones.

Gesture said:

I've said before and will say it again.

The larger the format the easier the photography.

35mm black and white, in particular, takes much knowledge and mastery of technique.

I used to see students in photography programs struggle with 35mm when a simple Yashica TLR would have yielded more rapid progress and wonderful images. I'd trade all my Kodachromes 50-100 to one for the images as 120 2-1/4 slides.

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Wow!!! You've just told me what my instincts for the past several years have been trying to tell me. Thank you!

I have wonderful 35mm film cameras, but always seem to go for my MF cameras (especially my Blad). I thought maybe it was just the sheer delight of pulling larger negatives out of the soup and being able to read them instantly; or maybe that scanning them was easier.

Of course zone metering sort of works with MF but not really with 35mm.

But still, there's more. There's something more holistic, something visual in the viewfinder. I dunno. But it's there. I'm a far better MF photographer than 35mm photographer, even though I can take 3x the photos with 35mm.

alex_virt said:

OTOH, the larger the format, the more your photos stand out of the 35mm crowd.

A simple TLR may be a sweet spot but not for everyone.

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For practical use I fully agree that a simple TLR is the sweet spot.

The difference with 35 mm encouraged me to take te plunge to large format.

After half a year getting in to 8x10, I am sure that medium format will be my go to choice in film photography. The 8x10 is for side projects. Today I saw some good inspiration


steven

You have a shopping problem not a film photography problem.

I have more film equipment than you listed. Purchased it all used from eBay and other websites. Never had something arrive not as described.

I've had good and bad old cameras. I paid a premium for a Pentax MX and it's great. I also found a great deal on a Pentax Z-1p and it's also great. I've had bad cameras. You just have to weed through them.

sprocket-docket said:

I've had good and bad old cameras. I paid a premium for a Pentax MX and it's great. I also found a great deal on a Pentax Z-1p and it's also great. I've had bad cameras. You just have to weed through them.

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Out of interest, I counted my acquisitions of used cameras. Over the course of 20 years, I bought 8 used digital cameras and 18 used film cameras both on Ebay and locally. Out of that quantity, I bought 4 film cameras for display only, knowing that they were either non-working or untested. Out of the film cameras I bought for shooting, one arrived broken from Ebay, and I got it repaired. Another film camera developed a problem and was retired. One digital camera died one year after purchase. I guess, 3 duds out of 26 isn't too bad.

A few months ago I decided that after 60+ years of film photography and dozens of cameras, I wanted to see why people made a fuss about Leicas. I set my sights on an affordable Barnack model, really any I, II or III. But where to buy one? I wanted one that worked. I don't have any dealers near me. So I went to a person in Spain who services/repairs cameras (not just Leicas, in fact mainly medium format) and I've ended up with a beautiful 1938 Leica II (model D) with a 1949 coated Summitar lens for €450. He did a film test before sending it to me. It's a stunning piece of optical engineering, I see now why some people just love Leicas. It's a huge pleasure to use this camera (I use Delta 100).

I think buying from someone who repairs cameras is a promising strategy, because these people generally do repairs because they love old cameras, and they would never sell you a camera that does not work.

alex_virt said:

sprocket-docket said:

I've had good and bad old cameras. I paid a premium for a Pentax MX and it's great. I also found a great deal on a Pentax Z-1p and it's also great. I've had bad cameras. You just have to weed through them.

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Out of interest, I counted my acquisitions of used cameras. Over the course of 20 years, I bought 8 used digital cameras and 18 used film cameras both on Ebay and locally. Out of that quantity, I bought 4 film cameras for display only, knowing that they were either non-working or untested. Out of the film cameras I bought for shooting, one arrived broken from Ebay, and I got it repaired. Another film camera developed a problem and was retired. One digital camera died one year after purchase. I guess, 3 duds out of 26 isn't too bad.

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If I had kept count of cameras I bought knowing they wouldn't work, I would be rather ashamed. Most of them I made a small profit or broke even selling them as nonworking, eventually. A couple I had repaired. I had quite a nice little Petri Color 35 fixed up and shot with it for a while, I just eventually figured that 1/250 top shutter speed was not good for my use.

You have had bad luck! But you should not be doing that poorly on eBay. The Bay is pro-buyer. If the item says "Used", that description includes "works as originally intended". If it doesn't, that's an automatic INAD (Item Not As Described) and the seller MUST take it back, even if the listing says "no returns", and they must pay shipping back to you. It's good to contact the seller in advance, but if they offer you anything less than a FULL refund AND paying return shipping, go through eBay. Most sellers will bend over backwards to avoid negative feedback, but don't hesitate to use eBay processes.

For your Japanese purchase, if it was through eBay, you should not be out the taxes. Did you go through the refund process or did you make that deal with the seller? If it was the second, contact eBay support and get those taxes back. You should not be paying taxes on something you did not buy (which is the case in a refund). I would strongly suggest reaching out to eBay support.

Aaron

Personally I would stick to film cameras that will fully operate without all the old school electronics.

About a year ago I alao stopped using my plastic-fantastic Canon EOS 3000V because it was so uninspiring to use. I went straight to a local camera shop that has a partnership with also a local camera repair shop, and after trying the Olympus and a couple Pentaxes I purchased a fully serviced and tested Nikon FM2, which is a full mechanical camera and it's such a blast to use. I also had a Sony A7C that I used to scan the negatives.

Just one month later I sold all my Sony gear and got a used Nikon Df from MPB with 6 month warranty and several cheap lenses (manual and AF) from them too. It's been such a great pleasure to shoot both cameras, and I use the Df the same way as the FM2 with manual exposure and Sunny 16 rule. Same lenses too, no need for adapters.

The FM2 is full of use marks and scratches, but it's a tough camera. When it stops operating will be easier to service too. I paid 400€ for mine (with all those marks and scratches!) but I knew it wouldn't let me down. So my advice is to buy from these local camera stores/shops, even if you can't go there in person. But you will get a camera that won't disappoint you. I can also recommend Kamerastore.

I don't want to confess how many cameras I have bought on eBay. At one time, I went through the entire history of digital photography. Fun to buy a camera that cost $1.5K when released for $65.

I may have returned 2 or 3 over many years. I agree. If the camera is advertised in such a way that any reasonable person would expect it to work, you should be able to return it even of No Returns Accepted. In one case, I was irritated. The camera was clearly misrepresented, but the buyer pulled "tough luck" and was stubborn about it, which previously you could get away with on eBay.

eBay ruled in my favor. I think it also helps when the system can see that one is a frequent customer on eBay and you rarely return items.

Personally, I don't respect folks who do the opposite. Treat eBay and online retailers as try-out shops. It raises costs for all of us.

"I used the camera for 28 days and decided it was not for me, so I returned it. Love Amazon policies." NO NO NO.

eBay never again for me. Photography equipment, just no! If you cant inspect yourself a lens for Fungus, or a camera for proper operation, it is a gambling game, simple as that. You get a refund if its not as described? Probably, but you also have to go through all the trouble of shipping it back, asking for refund, fighting for your money with a dishonest seller, etc etc.

Monday is the day the technician would give me an update on the Olympus OM-2N. I am considering it the D-Day for my Film Photography journey. If it's good news, I will spend a long time before purchasing anything again, and just enjoy what I have without any chance of further frustration. If it's not, then I will probably see with the store what are my options, which most probably mean refund and I am done with used equipment, at least for now.

I do appreciate a well preserved equipment, that makes it harder for me. Its not just getting something that works and go shoot. I really like cameras that got taken care, as I do the same for everythign I own. If I sell somethign used, you can bet it looks just as good as it was when i first purchased it. Most reliable shops charge way too much for equipment that isn't very good in the looks. If you want it to work, you got it, but most of them are in pretty rough shape, and you are paying extra over regular market prices too. If you have money to give away, then go for it, pay 200/300 extra to get that peace of mind, and maybe something that looks well preserved. I dont get that money to throw away unfortunately

Alec246 said:

eBay never again for me. Photography equipment, just no! If you cant inspect yourself a lens for Fungus, or a camera for proper operation, it is a gambling game, simple as that. You get a refund if it’s not as described? Probably, but you also have to go through all the trouble of shipping it back, asking for refund, fighting for your money with a dishonest seller, etc etc.

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You have been *very* unlucky with eBay, Over the years I have bought hundreds(*) of cameras through eBay, and have had to return a handful for being not as described. I don’t tend to buy anything expensive through eBay - for that I will buy from a shop. I have realistic expectations of what I’m buying - if it’s a “attic find” then I would expect that it might have dust and/or fungus and pay accordingly. I also expect with older cameras that I will have to replace the seals.

Alec246 said:

Monday is the day the technician would give me an update on the Olympus OM-2N. I am considering it the D-Day for my Film Photography journey. If it's good news, I will spend a long time before purchasing anything again, and just enjoy what I have without any chance of further frustration. If it's not, then I will probably see with the store what are my options, which most probably mean refund and I am done with used equipment, at least for now.

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There is new equipment in the Pentax 17, or the new Rollei from MiNT.

If you want a good second hand Rollei 35 for less than the MiNT camera, I’d recommend FilmFurbish who service and sell original Rollei 35s. Thats where I got mine from and apart from the meter being a bit “unreliable” it’s a brilliant camera (I use a cheap shoe meter with it).

Alec246 said:

I do appreciate a well preserved equipment, that makes it harder for me. Its not just getting something that works and go shoot. I really like cameras that got taken care, as I do the same for everythign I own. If I sell somethign used, you can bet it looks just as good as it was when i first purchased it. Most reliable shops charge way too much for equipment that isn't very good in the looks. If you want it to work, you got it, but most of them are in pretty rough shape, and you are paying extra over regular market prices too. If you have money to give away, then go for it, pay 200/300 extra to get that peace of mind, and maybe something that looks well preserved. I dont get that money to throw away unfortunately

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(*) I often buy, use and then sell a camera and then think that I actually liked it, and so buy it again (one of the reasons I’ve had about 10 Nikon F75’s)

You may be misreading what I wrote, but, yes, someone with your expectations should steer away from eBay. We can't buy any of the great vintage film cameras "factory fresh" anymore. So, you have to search harder. Example: I have a mint Ricoh Diacord G cameras-as good as Yashica or Minoltacord-but it needs a shutter service.

I've bought very expensive cameras and lenses on ebay with never a problem. I did return a couple of cameras for honest reasons (not because I just tried and didn't like) and in each case the seller was completely reasonable and even paid for return postage.

In hundreds of purchases, big and small, don't think I've ever had a bad experience on ebay.

Alec246 said:

eBay never again for me. Photography equipment, just no! If you cant inspect yourself a lens for Fungus, or a camera for proper operation, it is a gambling game, simple as that. You get a refund if its not as described? Probably, but you also have to go through all the trouble of shipping it back, asking for refund, fighting for your money with a dishonest seller, etc etc.

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I do wonder if you have been using the correct process for NAD items. I have had a few, and all you have to do is click the correct button, state your case - provide photos if required, and wait.

Ebay monitor these and if it is not resolved they arbitrate. You may have to return the item, but it will be at the sellers cost, and if the seller does not refund then ebay does and then sorts it out with the seller.

The trick with ebay is to learn how to read the the description and how to look at the photos. Look at what is not being said, look for the bit of the item that is not being shown in the photo. Ask for more pics and if you get any excuses like "it's at work", or "it's not mine I'm selling for a friend" etc - move on.

But having said this

Alec246 said:

Personally I would stick to film cameras that will fully operate without all the old school electronics.

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I did buy a Nikon FE about 15 years ago and have had no problems, Nikon film cameras seem very robust.

The FE is a great camera if you are an aperture priority shooter. I considered the Nikon FM3a but it is expensive and one cannot use the older lenses. I also like the FE because it compliments my LUMIX G100 and slso share lenses with an adapter.

I guess with all the film revival social media noise there is a lot of rubbish being pawned

Only quit if your heart is not into film shooting

In a short but succinct few words....heck NO.

There is a derivative kind of enjoyment that comes from the DSLR/mirrorless era...film is not coming back just because a few hipsters or TikTokers thought it would be retro-cool. Film is coming back because:

• I think the max I could get on my F3 burst rate was 4.5 FPS...and I almost never used the grip/speed loader. With a good to great film body, even the more modern SLRs (F3, FM3A, Canon AE-1Program, etc., u kinda still had to semi-know what u were doing, even in aperture priority mode. How? Trial and error, at least that it was like for me. When I was in the Army, I cannot help but remember how many rolls of decent film I butchered before I figured out what the heck I was doing. Once it starts hitting u in the pocketbook...u get motivated, buy a book or 2, start learning the basics, do more trial and error, etc.
• I checked with the local community colleges here in Minnesota, and also with my alma mater, the University of Minnesota. They all have "Intro to Photography" courses, and also degree programs. I polled each and every one of them - and they all answered the same. they don't let their students get within sniffing distance of a DSLR or point and shoot until after week 4. Weeks 1-4? The students cut their teeth on film SLRs. I think there is a method to the madness, here.

just my 2 kopecks....