ZF/Z8, which is "better" to pair with 28-400?

mxk7

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After reading and watching tons of reviews, I decided to get the 28-400 as a travel lens. I may find I don't like it, but I think I need to give it a try to figure this out.

I used to have a 24-200, but I didn't like the IQ, or say, the feeling of the lack of clarity in the image. I used to use the 24-70 2.8S for travel, but found I didn't take advantage of the larger aperture most of the time because I would like to have a clear background for travel photos, and we usually stay at the hotel at night. The 24-120 F4 is fantastic, and it has been my default travel lens since I purchased it. However, from time to time, I did want a longer reach. I brought the 100-400 S on a road trip, but I don't want to bring it with me when traveling by airplane. So, here is the 28-400.

In my opinion, the two major drawbacks of the 28-400 are 1. the dim aperture and 2. decreased IQ beyond the DX boundary, respectively.

I have a ZF and a Z8. ZF looks like a better choice to compensate for the aperture issue, as it has better high ISO performance and better IBIS (8-stop VR), which means I could use a slower shutter speed for non-moving objects. On the other hand, the Z8's sensor has better "croppability," which allows a decent amount of pixels (19 mp) in the DX area, and thus, we can use the best part of the image circle for anything beyond the 42mm equivalent POV.

Other than compensating for the shortcomings of the 28-400, ZF is 200g lighter than Z8 (I don't need to use the add-on grip on ZF), and the smaller raw files from ZF are faster to process during the travel days. Z8 can achieve a longer equivalent FL due to the higher pixel counts, though.

And there is still a thing not clear to me: Nikon claims that the Synchro VR can allow up to 5.5 stops of image stabilization when paired with Z8/ZF. But ZF alone can achieve 8-stop image stabilization. I think the number of stops would be affected by the focal length, and in-lens VR should be more effective than IBIS at a longer focal length. That said, does ZF still have an edge over Z8 in terms of VR when the lens and focal length are the same?

What are your thoughts or experiences with these setups? I'd love to hear your opinions and suggestions on this matter. Thanks,
 
I think you're overthinking the IQ differences, and I say this as a "lesser DR" Z6III user. You have the ZF and you're getting the lens anyway, see how it goes. 45mp is going to go through memory cards that much faster too.

I wouldn't make a decision based on two stops of VR performance. The ZF is newer and that is why it is improved. Both are good and better than DSLR's that didn't have any. Some disable it for faster shutter speeds and nicer bokeh as needed anyway. How often are you dragging the shutter handheld or panning when traveling?

Do you live somewhere that you can rent or try the Z8? I use the Adorama VIP Pro, but most US vendors allow returns within 30 or 60 days.

Why not a Z7II for travel? It is smaller than both of them and a bargain used. It won't "hurt" as much if it gets dropped or stolen either. It is more discreet than a Z8 or even the ZF (IMO) for street shooting. The AF is mostly weak for sports and birding, but that just means lower hit rates. Describing more of what and how you like to shoot might help.
 
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I think you're overthinking the IQ differences, and I say this as a "lesser DR" Z6III user. You have the ZF and you're getting the lens anyway, see how it goes. 45mp is going to go through memory cards that much faster too.

Do you live somewhere that you can rent or try the Z8? I use the Adorama VIP Pro, but most US vendors allow returns within 30 or 60 days.

Why not a Z7II for travel? It is smaller than both of them and a bargain used. It won't "hurt" as much if it gets dropped or stolen either. It is more discreet than a Z8 or even the ZF (IMO) for street shooting. The AF is only a bit weaker than a DSLR for sports and birding.
I already have the Z8. With the 28-400 lens, I only want to bring one of them with me. I have taken each of them with me while traveling and felt the size/weight of the Z8 is fine for travel, but a little too bulky when carrying it on the street. Also, it took a longer time to work with the 45 MP files on my iPad Pro.

I sold my Z7 last year and don't want to spend the money for a Z7II, just to save 230g in travel...
 
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I thought you were considering buying the Z8. Then I'd make my decision based on my printing needs for travel photos, and the ZF makes more sense. I kind of wish Nikon had an updated Z50, or I'd be happier with that for travel. LOL

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So you have a ZF and a Z8 already, and you got or will be getting the 28-400...?

If so, I don't get what info you expect to get from others. If you already have both cameras, use them for a bit and decide which one you want to use going forward.
 
So you have a ZF and a Z8 already, and you got or will be getting the 28-400...?

If so, I don't get what info you expect to get from others. If you already have both cameras, use them for a bit and decide which one you want to use going forward.
I mainly want to understand one thing: whether ZF would offer me better VR than Z8? Or say, whether the lens-body sync VR will take advantage of ZF's superior IBIS compared to Z8's?

Yes, I may figure it out by testing the two myself, but I think there should be a clear answer to this, as it is quite objective.
 
I thought you were considering buying the Z8. Then I'd make my decision based on my printing needs for travel photos, and the ZF makes more sense. I kind of wish Nikon had an updated Z50, or I'd be happier with that for travel. LOL
I am also waiting for a super compact DX camera from Nikon. The 28-400 and DX 12-28 would be a good combo on a DX body-- maybe two bodies with two lens if the DX body is as cheap as Z30
 
So you have a ZF and a Z8 already, and you got or will be getting the 28-400...?

If so, I don't get what info you expect to get from others. If you already have both cameras, use them for a bit and decide which one you want to use going forward.
I mainly want to understand one thing: whether ZF would offer me better VR than Z8? Or say, whether the lens-body sync VR will take advantage of ZF's superior IBIS compared to Z8's?

Yes, I may figure it out by testing the two myself, but I think there should be a clear answer to this, as it is quite objective.
In my experience, VR performance is actually quite subjective. Everyone's ability to hold a camera steady is unique to them.

Fair enough if you want to get others' opnions. I'm just suggesting they won't be near as useful as just taking an afternoon to form your own opinion.
 
I have all 3 and it partly depends on how it feels in hand on each body.

IMO the ZF does not pair well with longer lenses - the 28-400 is quite long when zoomed all the way out.

I use mine with either the Z7 or Z8 - mainly the latter as I find it a good lens for butterflies (F8-10 aperture and reasonable close focus, usually bright days).

Also, travel can mean all sorts of things. Remember the Z8's AF speed and subject recognition is superior to the Zf's. Also, there are those extra 20 MP (approx.) which I often find useful for cropping.
 
After reading and watching tons of reviews, I decided to get the 28-400 as a travel lens. I may find I don't like it, but I think I need to give it a try to figure this out.

I used to have a 24-200, but I didn't like the IQ, or say, the feeling of the lack of clarity in the image.
Pretty sure you will not like the 28-400 either, then. It is not any sharper.
 
The ZF should be better, for the following reasons:
  1. The 28-400 isn't a sharp lens. 24 MP sensors are much more forgiving for unsharp lenses. The 28-400 will not use the 45 MP of the Z8.
  2. The 28-400 needs to be paired with a good low light body. The ZF has an advantage, not just because of the better ISO performance, but also because of the next reason.
  3. The ZF has a better stabilization, not just because of the IBIS, the larger pixels do also help to improve the stabilization in comparison to a 45 MP sensor.
But if you don't like the 24-200, you will not like the 28-400. It's image quality is worse.
 
May be an unhelpful reply, given it’s not what you asked, but I use the 24-120 plus the AF-P 70-300 FX via an FTZii. Cheap, light and sharp.

Eventually Nikon will bring out a native Z and I’ll replace it but until then it goes anywhere I don’t want to drag the 100-400.

And with those two lenses, definitely the Z8.
 
May be an unhelpful reply, given it’s not what you asked, but I use the 24-120 plus the AF-P 70-300 FX via an FTZii. Cheap, light and sharp.

Eventually Nikon will bring out a native Z and I’ll replace it but until then it goes anywhere I don’t want to drag the 100-400.

And with those two lenses, definitely the Z8.
I have heard good comments about this AF-P lens, and it was recommended by Thom as the long FL lens for a travel kit since the beginning of the Z system. I would like to buy one if Nikon releases a Z version, maybe with a more aggressive design, like a 70-350 lens.

I feel that 300mm on the long end is still a bit short, and the use of the two lenses may not be well separated, meaning a lot of lens swapping. I used to have the 300 PF F4 and even an F TC 1.4x as a solution for the travel need of a long FL. But I made some stupid decisions...
 
So you have a ZF and a Z8 already, and you got or will be getting the 28-400...?

If so, I don't get what info you expect to get from others. If you already have both cameras, use them for a bit and decide which one you want to use going forward.
I mainly want to understand one thing: whether ZF would offer me better VR than Z8? Or say, whether the lens-body sync VR will take advantage of ZF's superior IBIS compared to Z8's?

Yes, I may figure it out by testing the two myself, but I think there should be a clear answer to this, as it is quite objective.
In my experience, VR performance is actually quite subjective. Everyone's ability to hold a camera steady is unique to them.

Fair enough if you want to get others' opnions. I'm just suggesting they won't be near as useful as just taking an afternoon to form your own opinion.
I agree that it is subjective to "test the VR capacity of a system" as the reason you mentioned. Even when some people compare the VR capacity of two cameras, it needs to be conducted with sufficient data points in order to draw a conclusion.

That said, the "VR capacity of a system" is objective, especially for cameras from the same manufacturer and released only several months apart. Nikon makes it clear that ZF has better IBIS than Z8. The unclear part is whether the lens-body sync VR is the same for the two cameras or not. Nikon should have the answer, and they may have already mentioned it in the specs (5.5 stops). Still, ZF might be able to do better than this — shouldn't it be 8 stops if I rely on IBIS only, at least for shorter FLs?
 
After reading and watching tons of reviews, I decided to get the 28-400 as a travel lens. I may find I don't like it, but I think I need to give it a try to figure this out.

I used to have a 24-200, but I didn't like the IQ, or say, the feeling of the lack of clarity in the image.
Pretty sure you will not like the 28-400 either, then. It is not any sharper.
I was thinking this way. However, some reviews say it is not worse compared to 24-200, IQ-wise. And if the 24-200 could reach 400mm, I would accept its inferior IQ in exchange for the extra reach.
 
The ZF should be better, for the following reasons:
  1. The 28-400 isn't a sharp lens. 24 MP sensors are much more forgiving for unsharp lenses. The 28-400 will not use the 45 MP of the Z8.
  2. The 28-400 needs to be paired with a good low light body. The ZF has an advantage, not just because of the better ISO performance, but also because of the next reason.
  3. The ZF has a better stabilization, not just because of the IBIS, the larger pixels do also help to improve the stabilization in comparison to a 45 MP sensor.
But if you don't like the 24-200, you will not like the 28-400. It's image quality is worse.
Thanks for the comments. The three points are exactly what I am thinking as the advantages of ZF, although I am still not sure whether ZF will offer better VR when working with this lens, as Nikon only vaguely mentioned 5.5 stops for body-lens sync VR

As for the IQ, I need to test it myself. I tried to draw the conclusion by watching the reviews and checking the online samples, but it just wasted a lot of my time.
 
I feel that 300mm on the long end is still a bit short, and the use of the two lenses may not be well separated, meaning a lot of lens swapping.
The difference between 300 and 400mm isn’t great in practice and the cropping potential of 45MP can easily compensate. A 30MP image from a sharp lens beats a 45MP image from a soft one to me.

The two lenses have a 70-120mm overlap so swapping is required but not excessive.

The crux for me is that both lenses are sharper and faster than the 28-400 and I find 24mm more useful than 400mm but obviously we all have different preferences.
 
I feel that 300mm on the long end is still a bit short, and the use of the two lenses may not be well separated, meaning a lot of lens swapping.
The difference between 300 and 400mm isn’t great in practice and the cropping potential of 45MP can easily compensate. A 30MP image from a sharp lens beats a 45MP image from a soft one to me.
Agreed. This is why I regret not keeping the tick Sharp 300 PF F4. Combined with a 45 MP sensor, I could achieve pixel-sharp 4K resolution photos with about a 2x300mm POV :)
The two lenses have a 70-120mm overlap so swapping is required but not excessive.
Another reason I am getting the 28-400mm is to travel light and simply. One body and one lens, a few batteries, done. I don't carry check-in luggage, to save time and avoid the possibility that it could get lost. I feel I have spent too much time and effort thinking about what gear to bring and packing them for past flying trips.
The crux for me is that both lenses are sharper and faster than the 28-400 and I find 24mm more useful than 400mm but obviously we all have different preferences.
I'm not sure whether or not I would miss the 24mm. When most smartphones had only one camera with a focal length of about 26-28mm, most people were fine with this, as was I.
 
I feel that 300mm on the long end is still a bit short, and the use of the two lenses may not be well separated, meaning a lot of lens swapping.
The difference between 300 and 400mm isn’t great in practice and the cropping potential of 45MP can easily compensate. A 30MP image from a sharp lens beats a 45MP image from a soft one to me.
Agreed. This is why I regret not keeping the tick Sharp 300 PF F4. Combined with a 45 MP sensor, I could achieve pixel-sharp 4K resolution photos with about a 2x300mm POV :)
The two lenses have a 70-120mm overlap so swapping is required but not excessive.
Another reason I am getting the 28-400mm is to travel light and simply. One body and one lens, a few batteries, done. I don't carry check-in luggage, to save time and avoid the possibility that it could get lost. I feel I have spent too much time and effort thinking about what gear to bring and packing them for past flying trips.
The crux for me is that both lenses are sharper and faster than the 28-400 and I find 24mm more useful than 400mm but obviously we all have different preferences.
I'm not sure whether or not I would miss the 24mm. When most smartphones had only one camera with a focal length of about 26-28mm, most people were fine with this, as was I.
In that case, to go back to your original question, my choice would by the ZF. Can’t see any reason to take the extra weight of the Z8 if the lens can’t exploit the extra MPs.
 
I have all 3 and it partly depends on how it feels in hand on each body.

IMO the ZF does not pair well with longer lenses - the 28-400 is quite long when zoomed all the way out.

I use mine with either the Z7 or Z8 - mainly the latter as I find it a good lens for butterflies (F8-10 aperture and reasonable close focus, usually bright days).

Also, travel can mean all sorts of things. Remember the Z8's AF speed and subject recognition is superior to the Zf's. Also, there are those extra 20 MP (approx.) which I often find useful for cropping.
I use mainly the Zf with the 180-600Z & T1.4

For travel, I use two bodies:


Z30 18-140Z
+
Zf 70-300 AF-P
 

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