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Should I quit Film Photography?

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Alec246

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So, some of you here might have followed a few of my journey on Film photography, but for those who havent let me explain why this has been almost complete frustration until now.

Adquired my first film camera 3 months, Pentax PC35AF. The only thing that worked and still works, and gave me good times until now!

Then I purchased a Nikon F3 "Near Mint" from eBay Japan. It arrived with a Broken Power Switch. Many said to return it. I did, money refunded, lost 150 euros in Taxes.

Olympus OM-2N from KameraStore. The camera had a huge dent, that made the top control even not sit flat. This was not shown on the photos as they do overexposure to hide marks and dents, and not shown on description. Frustration to have to send it back another camera, refunded.

Olympus OM-2N from a very reliable top quality seller. Mint Condition, beautiful. Doesnt work in Auto mode. The shutter opens and never closed back. Somethign in the electronic probably. The camera supposedly was serviced not long ago, and tested before being sent. It is almost 2 weeks since it has been at the technician trying to repair, still to hear back from them if they will be able to do so.

Olympus Zuiko 28mm from eBay- Full of Fungus, description specified clear optiocs. Sent back, got money back after almost 2 weeks

Minolta SpotMeter - Full of Fungus. Seller was not honest and didnt show many other issues on the ad photos. No refund, 150 euros in this.

Last one. Nikon CoolScan 4000. Found one, Seller said it was working perfectly, i took the gamble. DOesnt power on.

I think you can see what I mean. I probably lost in money and time so much, i could probably have a top Digital if I wanted. But i do like Film, but this has been frustration after frustration. People are not honest, this is the truth, and I cant buy these equipment new.

I am tired of this, almost giving out on Film and either going back to digital, or leaving photography out of frustration.

Just wanted to vent out this, and hear what the opinions are on my bad luck, am I to listen to the universe telling me to quit this hobby, or should i keep on this? I just cant handle loosing more money and time and not have any fun actyally taking photos..
 
Alec246 said:
So, some of you here might have followed a few of my journey on Film photography, but for those who havent let me explain why this has been almost complete frustration until now.

Adquired my first film camera 3 months, Pentax PC35AF. The only thing that worked and still works, and gave me good times until now!

Then I purchased a Nikon F3 "Near Mint" from eBay Japan. It arrived with a Broken Power Switch. Many said to return it. I did, money refunded, lost 150 euros in Taxes.

Olympus OM-2N from KameraStore. The camera had a huge dent, that made the top control even not sit flat. This was not shown on the photos as they do overexposure to hide marks and dents, and not shown on description. Frustration to have to send it back another camera, refunded.

Olympus OM-2N from a very reliable top quality seller. Mint Condition, beautiful. Doesnt work in Auto mode. The shutter opens and never closed back. Somethign in the electronic probably. The camera supposedly was serviced not long ago, and tested before being sent. It is almost 2 weeks since it has been at the technician trying to repair, still to hear back from them if they will be able to do so.

Olympus Zuiko 28mm from eBay- Full of Fungus, description specified clear optiocs. Sent back, got money back after almost 2 weeks

Minolta SpotMeter - Full of Fungus. Seller was not honest and didnt show many other issues on the ad photos. No refund, 150 euros in this.

Last one. Nikon CoolScan 4000. Found one, Seller said it was working perfectly, i took the gamble. DOesnt power on.

I think you can see what I mean. I probably lost in money and time so much, i could probably have a top Digital if I wanted. But i do like Film, but this has been frustration after frustration. People are not honest, this is the truth, and I cant buy these equipment new.

I am tired of this, almost giving out on Film and either going back to digital, or leaving photography out of frustration.

Just wanted to vent out this, and hear what the opinions are on my bad luck, am I to listen to the universe telling me to quit this hobby, or should i keep on this? I just cant handle loosing more money and time and not have any fun actyally taking photos..
Click to expand...
Hi! Okay, so, I kinda understand.

Now my 1st advice -- try to buy local, from local shops where you can handle and check the camera personally. That would save time and frustration. Create a system for yourself how to check -- take reliable light meter, take reliable film camera so u can compare shutter opening times.

Second -- yes, that how it is NOW on eBay. People do not care about being honest on eBay, even people from Japan... I don't understand there expectations tbh, as eBay protects buyer and you will anyway get money back... So how the hell those sellers expects to have a good reputation and run business is beyond me. They loose money on returns as they pay shipping costs for nothing.

And yes, even newer cameras, like Olympus OM2 are 45 years old now. So, it takes time to find one which is serviced or works great and all functions do work as expected. Unfortunately, really, takes time. But absolutely possible.

If you don't want to wait -- go for something newer. Maybe less cool, but most probably more reliable -- like Nikon FM10 or FM3A which was produced still in 2000s or Nikon F100. For scanner -- buy a new flatbed like Epson V700 or look into the direction of new Plustek scanners. They use the same software as Nikon's and while hardware not that good also not that far away from it.

Look for sellers that are selling serviced cameras and also ask all details before making purchase -- ask for additional pictures, ask for video, ask for light meter conditions and etc.

Or go for Pentax 17. Yes, it's half frame, but lens is sharp and it's new and actually rather well made. You will have fun with it.

It is 100% possible to find a good camera for good money, just takes time, or you need to know what and where to look for. Once right found it will server you for years. I still use my Olympus OM1 that I bought used 15 years ago and it still works perfectly.
 
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Oy vey, this is really tough! With such bad luck I would probably quit, but in case you still want to continue, a few advice:

1. Buy locally, so you can try before buying. This depends on where you live. In a big city it's much easier than in a small town.

2. Buy modern. Forget those 50-60 y.o. beauties that are shiny on the outside and rusty on the inside. Buy an ugly blob of plastic made in the late 90's or early 2000's with relatively fresh electronics. The newer the better. Preferably a Canon or Nikon that is compatible with modern lenses including stabilized ones.

3. Outsource your scanning to a lab or scan with a digital camera and a macro lens. Yesterday, I scanned my first roll with my camera and the JJC adapter. Took me about 40 minutes to scan and about an hour to process (developing raw files, cropping, dusting and adjusting). Much faster than using a scanner, and I am pleased with the results.

Good luck!
 
nameless0ne said:
Alec246 said:
So, some of you here might have followed a few of my journey on Film photography, but for those who havent let me explain why this has been almost complete frustration until now.

Adquired my first film camera 3 months, Pentax PC35AF. The only thing that worked and still works, and gave me good times until now!

Then I purchased a Nikon F3 "Near Mint" from eBay Japan. It arrived with a Broken Power Switch. Many said to return it. I did, money refunded, lost 150 euros in Taxes.

Olympus OM-2N from KameraStore. The camera had a huge dent, that made the top control even not sit flat. This was not shown on the photos as they do overexposure to hide marks and dents, and not shown on description. Frustration to have to send it back another camera, refunded.

Olympus OM-2N from a very reliable top quality seller. Mint Condition, beautiful. Doesnt work in Auto mode. The shutter opens and never closed back. Somethign in the electronic probably. The camera supposedly was serviced not long ago, and tested before being sent. It is almost 2 weeks since it has been at the technician trying to repair, still to hear back from them if they will be able to do so.

Olympus Zuiko 28mm from eBay- Full of Fungus, description specified clear optiocs. Sent back, got money back after almost 2 weeks

Minolta SpotMeter - Full of Fungus. Seller was not honest and didnt show many other issues on the ad photos. No refund, 150 euros in this.

Last one. Nikon CoolScan 4000. Found one, Seller said it was working perfectly, i took the gamble. DOesnt power on.

I think you can see what I mean. I probably lost in money and time so much, i could probably have a top Digital if I wanted. But i do like Film, but this has been frustration after frustration. People are not honest, this is the truth, and I cant buy these equipment new.

I am tired of this, almost giving out on Film and either going back to digital, or leaving photography out of frustration.

Just wanted to vent out this, and hear what the opinions are on my bad luck, am I to listen to the universe telling me to quit this hobby, or should i keep on this? I just cant handle loosing more money and time and not have any fun actyally taking photos..
Click to expand...
Hi! Okay, so, I kinda understand.

Now my 1st advice -- try to buy local, from local shops where you can handle and check the camera personally. That would save time and frustration. Create a system for yourself how to check -- take reliable light meter, take reliable film camera so u can compare shutter opening times.

Second -- yes, that how it is NOW on eBay. People do not care about being honest on eBay, even people from Japan... I don't understand there expectations tbh, as eBay protects buyer and you will anyway get money back... So how the hell those sellers expects to have a good reputation and run business is beyond me. They loose money on returns as they pay shipping costs for nothing.

And yes, even newer cameras, like Olympus OM2 are 45 years old now. So, it takes time to find one which is serviced or works great and all functions do work as expected. Unfortunately, really, takes time. But absolutely possible.
Click to expand...
nameless0ne said:
If you don't want to wait -- go for something newer. Maybe less cool, but most probably more reliable -- like Nikon FM10 or FM3A which was produced still in 2000s or Nikon F100. For scanner -- buy a new flatbed like Epson V700 or look into the direction of new Plustek scanners.
Click to expand...
Ha-ha, we really think alike :) However, I advise against the Epson V700. It is OK for medium format film but not good for 35mm. It is painfully slow and can get about 6 MP worth of detail from a 35mm frame.
 
...you need to quit; you need to quit buying things sight unseen.

I've purchased 7 used film cameras in the last two years. 4 were online eBay purchases and 3 were local. Only 1 of the eBay purchases was problematic. I sent it back and replaced it with a local purchase.
 
alex_virt said:
3. Outsource your scanning to a lab or scan with a digital camera and a macro lens. Yesterday, I scanned my first roll with my camera and the JJC adapter. Took me about 40 minutes to scan
Click to expand...
I've also switched to scanning my own using a camera, macro lens and a Valoi Easy35. I would esitimate that I can scan a roll of 36 in under 10 minutes (once I set up the first shot - included in the 10 minutes).
 
grsnovi said:
alex_virt said:
3. Outsource your scanning to a lab or scan with a digital camera and a macro lens. Yesterday, I scanned my first roll with my camera and the JJC adapter. Took me about 40 minutes to scan
Click to expand...
I've also switched to scanning my own using a camera, macro lens and a Valoi Easy35. I would esitimate that I can scan a roll of 36 in under 10 minutes (once I set up the first shot - included in the 10 minutes).
Click to expand...
That's rincredibly fast! How does it work?

With the JJC, I have to load film strips into a holder that holds up to 6 frames.
 
A lot of buyers forget that this gear is getting pretty old. I still have and use film camerasI bought in the 1990's. A few even though I looked after them became problematic , mostly electronics. Sold off most with a full disclosure of what problems existed and could occur in the future. I was amazed at how much people were happy to pay for iffy cameras.

The fully manual cameras, no battery required , no problem and all got a service in the last 10 years.

I would not buy electronic film camera unseen
 
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Thank you all for the very welcome advices!

Now, about a specific advice most have mentioned here. Buy locally, check yourself the gear.

Well, that works when you live in a big country. You can find all kind of gear in USA, Germany, France, etc. Living in a smaller country, where the whole country population equals to what a single city had where I lived before, means the chance of being able to meet personally and check the gear, for something 40year old being sold is close to none. So thats just not realistic. And even in this country, I dont live in the biggest city, so most of the good stuff sold here is too far away from me to check personally as well.

So, that leaves me, either I forget Film photography and purchase new stuff from Amazon, or I pick places where Refund is guaranteed, and they promisse to have a strict verification process.

I am done with eBay. Never again. But even in these more reliable stores, I am proof bad stuff can happen.

Now, I am not done yet, I am waiting for the answer on the OM-2N on the bench, I really hope that has repair, because I loved that camera, pristine condition, beautiful, fit like a glove. But if they can't do it, then I might just quit.

About the Scanning Process. My Lab unfortunately had several issues on the past scannings. I like having my own RAW to do deeper edits. The Nikon Coolscan I paid a low price, but now if I can repair it, its no longer guarantee i have done a good deal, depends on how much the repair is gonna cost...

And modern Film equipment. Honestly, i dont feel the magic. If I go 90s Film Cameras, i prefer to skil film altogether and go full digital and apply my presets to the photo. I like 80s and before stuff, newer than that makes me not experience the full magic of shooting film, using Sunny 16, or basic metering, no Matrix Exposure, Continuous Focus, 8FPS burst rate etc.

--
You can find some of my Photos here:
https://www.500px.com/alexismmef
 
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" that how it is NOW on eBay. People do not care about being honest on eBay, even people from Japan..."

to be fair sometime people do not know there is a problem with the gear they sell. I traded in cameras for over 30 years and a common problem, asan example, was fungus or scratches on a lens that the customer genuinly did not know were there.

However you do have a very valid point in that one can get faulty goods from anywhere...

on a different sub forum a member asked if it was safe to buy from Japan, I was the only one to point out that Japan is not a shop nor an individual and is like buying from "New York", some shops are very good others are not so much ....

( I really don't get how can people think in general terms like "German cars" /restaurants in Italy, Made In Japan cameras....)
 
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In the early days of eBay, I had some of your experiences.

Now, I go by a certain price I won't go beyond and can handle "writing it off."

When I buy a used digital camera or lens now, I stick with MPB, B&H, Adorama, KEH, Roberts-Used Camera Pro that provide 6-month warranty for camera and lens. They might have film cameras, also. In my experience, these companies do stand by the warranty.

In olden days, they had camera shows on the weekend. I might buy a camera on Saturday, check it out with B&W film, and, if it wasn't OK, might return it the next day.

eBay protections right now are outstanding for buyers. I still don't like how much gear is bought and sold without proper invoices that record serial #s.

There are so many Minolta film SLRs slight out there. I can't believe you couldn't find a good one. My Nikkormat and Nikon EM also seem like they will live forever.
 
Gesture said:
I agree. I just older, all manual cameras. Set aperture and shutter speed, focus, compose, expose.
Click to expand...
+1.

I use an old cheap yashica mat TLR and a relatively modern 8x10 large format Chamonix camera. There is not much to service. If the TLR falls apart, i will just look for another one (buy locally). For the large format, even in the EU you have to buy on eBay… due to sparce lenses and film holders.

maybe the sweet spot in availability / price and quality of gear is a modern Chamonix 4x5. There is an abundance of high end lenses that will fit and camera scanning 4x5 is easy.

35 mm is an whole other game. Digitising the negatives is more critical and the gear is more consumer grade / has old electronics.
my father has a Nikon f3 and an older nikormat ft3 lying around. Bought new around 1970-76. Both need new seals and mirror cushion.

I got in to film with these Nikons, but after buying the TLR for cheap 80€, I choose not the use the Nikons any more.

steven
 
I do believe equipment matters too. Film is Film, no matter if its on a Kodak Disposable or a Leica M6. But I am not even talking about Lens quality, etc

My first experience with Film Camera after so many years away from Photography was with a Canon Rebel from 2000s. The camera technically is probably better than anything made in the 80s, all eletronic, super fast AF, precise Shutter Speeds, etc.

But the feel of Plastic on my hands, that tiny ViewFinder, the ton of Dials that do so much but the most important things you need. I just had no pleasure going on and shooting with that camera. I just didnt feel like it.

Fast forward to the Olympus OM-2N. When I first held that camera in my hands, wow, that thing called for me to go out and shoot all day. It is a marvelous design, feels perfect on your hand, huge Viewfinder, all the controls you need are by your hand, nothing extra that is just distraction, just what matters.

That is makes Film Photography for me do something that no Digital Camera can. When I go out, I dont spray and pray. I pick my photos, I have 36 of them. I use the simple but effective functions of the camera to go toward what i want for the photography, no distraction. I come home from shooting film, and 2 weeks after, when I get the digitalized pics from the Lab, I can remember each one, how i wanted it to be and how it turned out. With Digital, I come with 100+ Photos, and most of them are good by factors I didnt even notice while shooting, complete accidents that made the photos better.

Thats why I want to keep shooting film. But I really hope this time I get a bit luckier and can no longer wait and spend more and more money
 
I've said before and will say it again.

The larger the format the easier the photography.

35mm black and white, in particular, takes much knowledge and mastery of technique.

I used to see students in photography programs struggle with 35mm when a simple Yashica TLR would have yielded more rapid progress and wonderful images. I'd trade all my Kodachromes 50-100 to one for the images as 120 2-1/4 slides.
 
So you bought a WORKING camera from KameraStore that wasn't in perfect aesthetic condition, so you sent it back. OK, fair. Buy why not order another one from them?

They test the equipment, have a nice return policy and a 6 to 12month warranty. It would've saved you a lot of problems with untested cameras and lenses.
 
Wait for the Rollei Mint....brand new and looks great. Buy the Pentax 17 even. Or wait as there is bound to be another from Pentax and who knows what else might surprise us.

Either way, sure...some buggers amongst the Ebay crowd so yes, buy thru MPB or KEH is my suggestion. Or go to a local camera store and look over their used equipment. I know Unique Photo is Philadelphia or Monument Camera in Tucson are two that I visit often. Great people, good used gear. Forget Ebay....
 
Gesture said:
I've said before and will say it again.

The larger the format the easier the photography.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Larger formats means heavier equipment, slower process and higher cost per frame, which limits one's choice of subjects. To shoot large format, a car or a home studio are must.

OTOH, the larger the format, the more your photos stand out of the 35mm crowd.

A simple TLR may be a sweet spot but not for everyone.
 
Gesture said:
I've said before and will say it again.

The larger the format the easier the photography.

35mm black and white, in particular, takes much knowledge and mastery of technique.

I used to see students in photography programs struggle with 35mm when a simple Yashica TLR would have yielded more rapid progress and wonderful images. I'd trade all my Kodachromes 50-100 to one for the images as 120 2-1/4 slides.
Click to expand...
Thats something to consider, yes!

I never thought going medium format before "mastering" 35mm would be a wise choice. I always had 35mm as first step, then medium format when yoh have matured as a photographer, specially with shooting film. Maybe i was wrong?

--
Gesture said:
So you bought a WORKING camera from KameraStore that wasn't in perfect aesthetic condition, so you sent it back. OK, fair. Buy why not order another one from them?

They test the equipment, have a nice return policy and a 6 to 12month warranty. It would've saved you a lot of problems with untested cameras and lenses.
Click to expand...
They didnt have another OM-2N without more serious issues such as viewfinder foam, which requires some hard.work on the camera to clean. Also i wasnt very happy about the price i paid for a OM-2N in that condition, it was.way more than what i can find locally, and it had a ton of wear and tear, not to mention the huge dent that wasnt shown since they overezpose every photo. So i didnt feel exactly confident in giving them another try for a 40+ year old camera

You can find some of my Photos here:

500px

www.500px.com www.500px.com
 
Alec246 said:
I do believe equipment matters too. Film is Film, no matter if its on a Kodak Disposable or a Leica M6. But I am not even talking about Lens quality, etc

My first experience with Film Camera after so many years away from Photography was with a Canon Rebel from 2000s. The camera technically is probably better than anything made in the 80s, all eletronic, super fast AF, precise Shutter Speeds, etc.

But the feel of Plastic on my hands, that tiny ViewFinder, the ton of Dials that do so much but the most important things you need. I just had no pleasure going on and shooting with that camera. I just didnt feel like it.

Fast forward to the Olympus OM-2N. When I first held that camera in my hands, wow, that thing called for me to go out and shoot all day. It is a marvelous design, feels perfect on your hand, huge Viewfinder, all the controls you need are by your hand, nothing extra that is just distraction, just what matters.

That is makes Film Photography for me do something that no Digital Camera can. When I go out, I dont spray and pray. I pick my photos, I have 36 of them. I use the simple but effective functions of the camera to go toward what i want for the photography, no distraction. I come home from shooting film, and 2 weeks after, when I get the digitalized pics from the Lab, I can remember each one, how i wanted it to be and how it turned out. With Digital, I come with 100+ Photos, and most of them are good by factors I didnt even notice while shooting, complete accidents that made the photos better.

Thats why I want to keep shooting film. But I really hope this time I get a bit luckier and can no longer wait and spend more and more money
Click to expand...
Go buy Pentax 17
 
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