Shadowfixer
Senior Member
It looks like too much contrast to me along with a tad too much saturation. If I use the "camera raw filter" to adjust the contrast, it makes a big difference.
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Redness in faces help
- Thread starter horseracingphoto
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horseracingphoto
Well-known member
My workflow is very straight forward. Because of time constants I have to shoot jpeg. I just take it into photoshop 2024, adjust exposure and sometimes shadows if needed, sometimes a little tweek in the sharpness and that's it. I have 15 mins max after each race to select an image, add titles, print a3 and then mount and frame. After that pick two more images, resize all of them. then send them out via ftp and what's app.
I never said the camera was defective. I like the camera hence why I came on here seeking help. But my workflow is very simple and straight forward, colour is not something I mess with. I know I am doing what I should be doing, I dont think the camera is doing anything other than its set up to do, but in that setup somewhere, something isn't right and that is what I need to find and adjust. It doesn't happen all the time so something is setting it off. Or maybe it is defective, that is something that hadn't actually crossed my mind before.
I never said the camera was defective. I like the camera hence why I came on here seeking help. But my workflow is very simple and straight forward, colour is not something I mess with. I know I am doing what I should be doing, I dont think the camera is doing anything other than its set up to do, but in that setup somewhere, something isn't right and that is what I need to find and adjust. It doesn't happen all the time so something is setting it off. Or maybe it is defective, that is something that hadn't actually crossed my mind before.
Set the camera to sRGB instead of AdobeRGB and all will be well.
Regor250
Veteran Member
Really? Sad... but the camera ain't the problem but whatever makes you happy. These images are way over saturated to begin with and are in the wrong color space for web display. This ain't a camera issue. Madoro has shown you what your images SHOULD look like. You of course can do what you want, but if it were me I'd spend some time learning to use this powerful imaging tool better to achieve the results I want. Use a natural color setting and crank down the contrast and saturation for a start. Do some experimentation to find what works for you and read the manual if you haven't already. Perhaps the OM-1 is too complex a tool for you and you need a more basic entry-level camera with scene presets. Fair enough if that's the case, and only you know that, but the OM-1 is more than capable to do what you seek.
Returning the camera for the reason you state is akin to returning a new car because the radio station presets aren't to your liking. Shoot some RAW, bring them in OM Workspace, work the settings to your liking, and transfer those settings to a Custom Mode. OMW works with the same settings as those available in your camera!
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Roger
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Wingsfan
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That that is in fact a splotch on the jockey's face, and that the other cameras aren't picking it up!!!
Honey more serious note, I know that water can throw the strangest Reflections in places, having shot competitive swimming for 10 years, and I even wonder if it's just the right combination of water, redness, moisture or sweat on the skin, and reflection off the arm.
But in the end unless you're shooting two cameras simultaneously, it's really impossible to know.
Honey more serious note, I know that water can throw the strangest Reflections in places, having shot competitive swimming for 10 years, and I even wonder if it's just the right combination of water, redness, moisture or sweat on the skin, and reflection off the arm.
But in the end unless you're shooting two cameras simultaneously, it's really impossible to know.
knickerhawk
Veteran Member
Irfanview seems to be defaulting on your computer to displaying the shots as if they were profiled as sRGB shots, ignoring the fact that they are actually profiled as Adobe RGB shots and have the Adobe RGB profile embedded. What you're showing as the Irfranview versions look the same to me as when I "assign" sRGB to them in Photoshop. The fact that they look better (at least, with respect to the red ruddiness disappearing) when deliberately assigning the wrong color space is a red flag (pun sort of intended here) that they were somehow not properly color managed somewhere along the way. (It's also evidence that your Irfanview tool default settings might be messed up, but I don't use that viewer and don't know anything specific about it's setup.)Again, I have done nothing at all to change these images, except open them in Irfanview instead of viewing them within a web browser.
I suppose it's possible that there's something messed up in-camera when Adobe RGB is selected for JPEG output. That seems like a stretch to me, but I'm also struggling to think what the OP could be doing during their JPEG opening/editing/saving workflow in PS that would cause a color space mismatch. It might be worth a quick experiment shooting the same scene with Adobe RGB set in-camera and then the same scene shot with sRGB set in-camera to see if there are any differences in the red saturation inside of Photoshop and also when re-saved in Photoshop. It's also quite possible that we're barking up the wrong tree concerning color management and it's really something else going on with the oversaturated reds. We could get pretty definitive results if the OP would share a set of raws+JPEGs for both JPEG settings, plus JPEGs resaved through their normal Photoshop workflow. It's up to the OP to decide if it's worth it to really get to the bottom of this instead of returning the camera.
Bassam Guy
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Download and install OMDS Workspace. If you have the raw, great but I believe OWS also allows editing of O. JPEGs.
Nearly any of the camera settings, including white balancing and "warm color" that others mentioned, can be applied close to if not exactly as they would have, had they been set prior to capture. (Disclaimer: if the originals are JPEGs, I have no idea how good the results will look.)
Nearly any of the camera settings, including white balancing and "warm color" that others mentioned, can be applied close to if not exactly as they would have, had they been set prior to capture. (Disclaimer: if the originals are JPEGs, I have no idea how good the results will look.)
"Keep warm colors" only applies to white balance under tungsten light, and won't affect shots taken in daylight.
Boo
Veteran Member
I did exactly the same exercise with both IrfanView and FastStone - I was actually looking for the EXIF details, to see if one of the more vivid settings had been used. The red might be what concerns the OP, but all of the colours look more saturated in their posted images. It's very telling in the collar of the jockey's silks where the red has blown, killing the texture detail - but the yellows and blues are just as over-saturated.
IrfanView on the right in the top 2 and on the left on the bottom screengrab - I just opened the web images and overlaid IrfanView over the top and sized the window to show the same area of both images.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the right in this case, saved image opened in IrfanView on the left.
Bobapingu
Veteran Member
The OM-1 picture modes are more saturated compared to the Adobe profiles. I like Natural, not because it's in anyway natural but I like the colours. The OM-1 Natural is more like Adobe Vivid. Try Muted or even Portrait for your case.
knickerhawk
Veteran Member
In all likelihood, your implementation of Irfanview is similar to Madoro's. For whatever reason, they are displaying the image(s) as sRGB profiled when, in fact, the images are tagged and appear to have the Adobe RGB color profile embedded. I've seen this issue with several viewers that aren't configured to properly color manage. Since the vast majority of JPEGs are still sRGB-based, this issue might not be something that you've noticed previously. Check out your Irfanview color management configuration. Although I don't use Irfanview and don't know anything in particular about it, a quick Google search found some posts about an LCMS.dll that needs to be properly downloaded and configured to ensure color management. That's the most likely source, but the issue could be Windows-based or display monitor based as well.I did exactly the same exercise with both IrfanView and FastStone - I was actually looking for the EXIF details, to see if one of the more vivid settings had been used. The red might be what concerns the OP, but all of the colours look more saturated in their posted images. It's very telling in the collar of the jockey's silks where the red has blown, killing the texture detail - but the yellows and blues are just as over-saturated.
IrfanView on the right in the top 2 and on the left on the bottom screengrab - I just opened the web images and overlaid IrfanView over the top and sized the window to show the same area of both images.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the right in this case, saved image opened in IrfanView on the left.
I also raised the issue of color management exactly because of the red saturation behavior when sRGB is assigned to color manage instead of Adobe RGB. It's possible that there is a color management problem somewhere in the OP's workflow, but the JPEG file itself doesn't indicate that something is wrong since the OP says they intentionally set Adobe RGB in-camera and the Photoshop-edited rendering retains the Adobe RGB color profile. Some additional testing would be able to isolate if there is something wrong with how the camera is applying Adobe RGB to its JPEG images, but it's also very possible and probably more likely to be other camera settings being used that exaggerate the reds. Again, to the OP, I would suggest conducting some testing that includes raws and Adobe RGB plus sRGB JPEGs generated from the camera to see what's going on. Of course, it's understandable if the OP is tired of wrestling with the camera and just wants to return it, but with a little patience and systematic testing, I'm confident the issue could be isolated and addressed.
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Boo
Veteran Member
I just wrote a post, then lost it somehow. I had been saying that my IrfanView works fine, I just haven't installed the plug in that uses Adobe RGB management as I have no need of it personally - that was sort of my point - the saturation is tamed when viewing it as sRGB - which is suggestive of it being the Adobe RGB in-camera setting that might be the salient bit. Or at least, if they need to work in AdobeRGB - export images to view as sRGB.In all likelihood, your implementation of Irfanview is similar to Madoro's. For whatever reason, they are displaying the image(s) as sRGB profiled when, in fact, the images are tagged and appear to have the Adobe RGB color profile embedded. I've seen this issue with several viewers that aren't configured to properly color manage. Since the vast majority of JPEGs are still sRGB-based, this issue might not be something that you've noticed previously. Check out your Irfanview color management configuration. Although I don't use Irfanview and don't know anything in particular about it, a quick Google search found some posts about an LCMS.dll that needs to be properly downloaded and configured to ensure color management. That's the most likely source, but the issue could be Windows-based or display monitor based as well.I did exactly the same exercise with both IrfanView and FastStone - I was actually looking for the EXIF details, to see if one of the more vivid settings had been used. The red might be what concerns the OP, but all of the colours look more saturated in their posted images. It's very telling in the collar of the jockey's silks where the red has blown, killing the texture detail - but the yellows and blues are just as over-saturated.
IrfanView on the right in the top 2 and on the left on the bottom screengrab - I just opened the web images and overlaid IrfanView over the top and sized the window to show the same area of both images.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the right in this case, saved image opened in IrfanView on the left.
I also raised the issue of color management exactly because of the red saturation behavior when sRGB is assigned to color manage instead of Adobe RGB. It's possible that there is a color management problem somewhere in the OP's workflow, but the JPEG file itself doesn't indicate that something is wrong since the OP says they intentionally set Adobe RGB in-camera and the Photoshop-edited rendering retains the Adobe RGB color profile. Some additional testing would be able to isolate if there is something wrong with how the camera is applying Adobe RGB to its JPEG images, but it's also very possible and probably more likely to be other camera settings being used that exaggerate the reds. Again, to the OP, I would suggest conducting some testing that includes raws and Adobe RGB plus sRGB JPEGs generated from the camera to see what's going on. Of course, it's understandable if the OP is tired of wrestling with the camera and just wants to return it, but with a little patience and systematic testing, I'm confident the issue could be isolated and addressed.
The OP said they have to work in JPEG due to time constraints and the nature of the work they do, so it seems it might just be easier to work in sRGB for consistency - it certainly warrants some experimentation to see what works best for them for their workflow software and end uses.
knickerhawk
Veteran Member
Ok, that confirms that your implementation of IrfanView is not color managing and, therefore, just assigning sRGB as its default color space even though the image is Adobe RGB. This results in the taming of the red ruddiness, but it also is likely to have unwanted effects on other colors as well. Look closely and you will probably see a subtle desaturation across other colors and a bit of undesirable coldness added to the skin.I just wrote a post, then lost it somehow. I had been saying that my IrfanView works fine, I just haven't installed the plug in that uses Adobe RGB management as I have no need of it personallyIn all likelihood, your implementation of Irfanview is similar to Madoro's. For whatever reason, they are displaying the image(s) as sRGB profiled when, in fact, the images are tagged and appear to have the Adobe RGB color profile embedded. I've seen this issue with several viewers that aren't configured to properly color manage. Since the vast majority of JPEGs are still sRGB-based, this issue might not be something that you've noticed previously. Check out your Irfanview color management configuration. Although I don't use Irfanview and don't know anything in particular about it, a quick Google search found some posts about an LCMS.dll that needs to be properly downloaded and configured to ensure color management. That's the most likely source, but the issue could be Windows-based or display monitor based as well.I did exactly the same exercise with both IrfanView and FastStone - I was actually looking for the EXIF details, to see if one of the more vivid settings had been used. The red might be what concerns the OP, but all of the colours look more saturated in their posted images. It's very telling in the collar of the jockey's silks where the red has blown, killing the texture detail - but the yellows and blues are just as over-saturated.
IrfanView on the right in the top 2 and on the left on the bottom screengrab - I just opened the web images and overlaid IrfanView over the top and sized the window to show the same area of both images.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the left, IrfanView of the saved image on the right.
Posted image on DPR on the right in this case, saved image opened in IrfanView on the left.
I also raised the issue of color management exactly because of the red saturation behavior when sRGB is assigned to color manage instead of Adobe RGB. It's possible that there is a color management problem somewhere in the OP's workflow, but the JPEG file itself doesn't indicate that something is wrong since the OP says they intentionally set Adobe RGB in-camera and the Photoshop-edited rendering retains the Adobe RGB color profile. Some additional testing would be able to isolate if there is something wrong with how the camera is applying Adobe RGB to its JPEG images, but it's also very possible and probably more likely to be other camera settings being used that exaggerate the reds. Again, to the OP, I would suggest conducting some testing that includes raws and Adobe RGB plus sRGB JPEGs generated from the camera to see what's going on. Of course, it's understandable if the OP is tired of wrestling with the camera and just wants to return it, but with a little patience and systematic testing, I'm confident the issue could be isolated and addressed.
Yes, but it's "salient" only if there's something mismanaged in how Adobe RGB got assigned in the first place. Otherwise, a false assignment of the sRGB color space to an image that was properly assigned Adobe RGB upstream is going to result in less than ideal color rendering most of the time.
Assuming you mean to do a proper conversion from Adobe RGB to sRGB when exporting, the positive effect will be to make the JPEG render "properly" even in apps that aren't color managed since sRGB is virtually always the default color space. However, "properly" also means here that the same red ruddiness present in the original Adobe RGB rendering (viewed in a color managed app) will STILL be visible in the rendering that's been converted to sRGB. The ruddy reds in these images are virtually all well within the sRGB gamut, so the "proper" conversion will not result in any taming of the reds.
I agree with these last suggestions. However, if the OP's clients are savvy enough to work with Adobe RGB profiled/tagged JPEGs, there will be some potential advantages to using Adobe RGB due to the fact that jockey tunics are often very colorful and the wider gamut of Adobe RGB will be less likely to clip those saturated colors.
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Bassam Guy
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Then tell Jouko who suggested it (first reply to the OP above). I'm agnostic on it and didn't see how it would help.
The Mad Kiwi
Senior Member
Simply you’re running up against physics, at ISO 640 you’ve only got 8 stops of dynamic range to work with on those M43 sensors to capture a 16 stop scene. This looks like there’s not enough data being collected on the red spectrum because it’s a cloudy blue day and it’s being stretched and blocking up.
Really you need a faster lens, find a closer position where you can use an 85mm 1.4 equivalent (2 stops), and a full frame sensor (another 2 stops) to collect more colour data in the camera up so you have more dynamic range to work with. Remember if you can get 4 stops, that 16 times the amount of colour information. Then the tone curves on the colour channels will be smoother and not block up.
I've seen a lot of stupid reasons given as to why full frame is better, but telling someone they need a full frame sensor to collect more colour data to correct redness in faces is by far the most stupid reason I've seen yet.
The Mad Kiwi
Senior Member
It’s not just the face, the reds are blocking up in the jacket as well. The whole look of the image is what you get when there’s not enough bit depth, stretched to far.
I didn't read through the entire string, but my guess is a color profile other than Natural is being used. The photos look like Vivid was used .... and maybe Keep Warm Color is still turned on.
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