Redness in faces help

horseracingphoto · Jul 21, 2024

I bought the om1 mark ii, 2 months ago, I wanted to lighten the load (also bought g9 mark II). The G9 ii I really like and happy to use it on jobs, The om1 mark ii, I am 50/50 with. Love the size and lens selection, I think with more work I'll get the images the way it want to (have to shoot jpeg). The main problem I have with it is the redness that appears in the faces. I shot a headshot of someone and deleted because of the redness (used sat selection to adjust, but didn't like the result). It is a problem I've noticed else where. Below are what I mean, these are crops of images taken and there faces are not red. I am hoping somewhere here can tell me it's a setting to change as it doesn't happen all the time.

Thanks for any help.

Jouko · Jul 21, 2024

In that particular photo I'd say some hydrocortisone might help. I believe it really is the face that is red, maybe a bit oversaturated, but anyway.

If you want overall cooler images with less saturated reds, there is the "use warm colors" option in the menu - sorry, I don't have a camera in my hands right now, so you need to find that option yourself. Set it off.

Of course there are also options to change the color response some other ways too, or just set the white balance manually.

Or - if you are happy with Pana colors, but want to use the OMD /Oly lenses, just use them with G9II. They work. 40-150 F2.8 does not have any image stabilization in lens, so it will use the body IS anyway - and you are far from the limits of those in races.

Have a nice day!

Jouko
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horseracingphoto · Jul 21, 2024

Jouko said:
In that particular photo I'd say some hydrocortisone might help. I believe it really is the face that is red, maybe a bit oversaturated, but anyway.

If you want overall cooler images with less saturated reds, there is the "use warm colors" option in the menu - sorry, I don't have a camera in my hands right now, so you need to find that option yourself. Set it off.

Of course there are also options to change the color response some other ways too, or just set the white balance manually.

Or - if you are happy with Pana colors, but want to use the OMD /Oly lenses, just use them with G9II. They work. 40-150 F2.8 does not have any image stabilization in lens, so it will use the body IS anyway - and you are far from the limits of those in races.

Have a nice day!

Jouko
'The best camera in the world is the one you have with you when you need it'
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Thanks for replying. The g9 ii readout isn't quick enough for what I shoot (fast morning horse), I did try it with the lens, worked well apart from the slanted background. I like the om1 mark, and the colours in the pictures but the red faces are to much they didn't look like that

Photongraphy · Jul 21, 2024

Hm, I find Oly/OMS do have a bit too strong reds, but never seen reds show up that weren't there in the first place. As it looks cold and rainy, I wouldn't be surprised some redness really is there in this case too. But I understand why you don't like it, cos it isn't flattering.

You can adjust the WB (scp) to turn the reds down a bit, but I don't expect it to really solve this.

A wild thought: what colour space are you shooting in? AdobeRGB vs sRGB can sometimes give visible differences - especially in the reds.

horseracingphoto · Jul 21, 2024

Photongraphy said:
Hm, I find Oly/OMS do have a bit too strong reds, but never seen reds show up that weren't there in the first place. As it looks cold and rainy, I wouldn't be surprised some redness really is there in this case too. But I understand why you don't like it, cos it isn't flattering.

You can adjust the WB (scp) to turn the reds down a bit, but I don't expect it to really solve this.

A wild thought: what colour space are you shooting in? AdobeRGB vs sRGB can sometimes give visible differences - especially in the reds.

It was cold, but it wasn't cold enough for that much red.

I had it set to AdobeRGB.

Its only in the faces that it shows badly, one client said that they couldn't stop looking at the redness in the face.

horseracingphoto · Jul 21, 2024

I want this to work as I have seen such amazing images from this camera on the forums. So I know it can do it. I also realise there is a learning curve from I am used to, to getting where I want to be image wise. But I can't get passed this problem, especially as it has been mentioned by clients.

Photongraphy · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
Photongraphy said:

Hm, I find Oly/OMS do have a bit too strong reds, but never seen reds show up that weren't there in the first place. As it looks cold and rainy, I wouldn't be surprised some redness really is there in this case too. But I understand why you don't like it, cos it isn't flattering.

You can adjust the WB (scp) to turn the reds down a bit, but I don't expect it to really solve this.

A wild thought: what colour space are you shooting in? AdobeRGB vs sRGB can sometimes give visible differences - especially in the reds.

Click to expand...

It was cold, but it wasn't cold enough for that much red.

I had it set to AdobeRGB.

Its only in the faces that it shows badly, one client said that they couldn't stop looking at the redness in the face.

I fully understand the client.

Maybe try sRGB?

horseracingphoto · Jul 21, 2024

Photongraphy said:
Hm, I find Oly/OMS do have a bit too strong reds, but never seen reds show up that weren't there in the first place. As it looks cold and rainy, I wouldn't be surprised some redness really is there in this case too. But I understand why you don't like it, cos it isn't flattering.

its also not just in the cold, this was on a nice warm day and the gentleman in background has a lot of redness, almost looks like a mask

kalisti · Jul 21, 2024

I use a G9 and adobe landscape profile in PS, being a landscape profile the reds are boosted over the level that one might find attractive for skin (I shoot people mainly).

So my default lowers the saturation (-10) and increases the vibrance (+10).

That balances thing to around about right to my eyes.

Not sure if it would get you to where you want, but might be worth a go.

And to be clear, I'm not saying use the adobe profile I use, just do the +/- to the profile you use as standard!

I'm not sure why I did it this way, but it worked and I didnt try another way, like changing the red channel specifically, or changing profiles.

Good luck!

knickerhawk · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
Photongraphy said:

Hm, I find Oly/OMS do have a bit too strong reds, but never seen reds show up that weren't there in the first place. As it looks cold and rainy, I wouldn't be surprised some redness really is there in this case too. But I understand why you don't like it, cos it isn't flattering.

Click to expand...

its also not just in the cold, this was on a nice warm day and the gentleman in background has a lot of redness, almost looks like a mask

Please describe your settings and workflow, including in-camera settings, file format you're saving from the camera and opening in ACR/Photoshop and settings used in Photoshop.

Simply "assigning" sRGB in Photoshop as the color space (instead of aRGB) causes the ruddiness of the skin to disappear, hence my suspicion is that this might just be a color management issue.

Photongraphy · Jul 21, 2024

I suspect the same. Color temp (WB) can also have an effect.

SterlingBjorndahl · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
(used sat selection to adjust, but didn't like the result).

I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I know the problem well, and it took me a lot of experimenting and watching YouTube videos to learn some new techniques. I'm a Photoshop user so I don't know how much of the following will be directly relevant, but some questions to consider:

When you say "sat selection" - did you select the faces or just the red blotches? Did you feather the selection? Did you use a Hue/Saturation layer with a mask? Did you use the eyedropper tool to fine-tune the colour to be adjusted? If you just slid the Saturation slider leftward, did you also adjust the Lightness slider to the right? If you used a Hue/Saturation layer did you experiment with opacity and blending modes? Do you have Vibrance turned up too high?

There are other adjustment layers that can be tried, with optional masking, opacity, and blending modes, especially the Selective Color, Color Balance and Channel Mixer adjustments. One powerful trick that can sometimes save the day is to use a Black and White Adjustment layer set to Luminosity blend mode so you can fine-tune the luminosity of individual colours.

Best of luck,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

Regor250 · Jul 21, 2024

A 5sec fix in post. If you desaturate red in camera, all reds will be affected, so I'd say best to fix in post processing.

--
Roger

Regor250 · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
Photongraphy said:

Hm, I find Oly/OMS do have a bit too strong reds, but never seen reds show up that weren't there in the first place. As it looks cold and rainy, I wouldn't be surprised some redness really is there in this case too. But I understand why you don't like it, cos it isn't flattering.

Click to expand...

its also not just in the cold, this was on a nice warm day and the gentleman in background has a lot of redness, almost looks like a mask

Contrast is un-natural and all colors over saturated in this image.

--
Roger

Madoro · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
It was cold, but it wasn't cold enough for that much red.

I had it set to AdobeRGB.

Most of the time, a JPG that is AdobeRGB will be displayed incorrectly on your client's computer or phone. You always want to give them sRGB to avoid problems. Unless you're printing at a very high level, there's absolutely no reason to be shooting in AdobeRGB, if the end output is going to just be viewed in sRGB on a phone or computer.

Digital Dick · Jul 21, 2024

If you are doing any post processing in LR or PS, just lower the overall saturation but increase the vibrance. The vibrance brings up the blues and the greens much more than the yellows and reds to protect skin tones from getting too red.

****

cba_melbourne · Jul 21, 2024

You provide two sample pictures. I believe in both cases the faces of the subjects were indeed red. And the camera faithfully represented it, and captured the "mood of the day" very well. It would be IMO a big mistake to alter the face redness in post processing!

The first pic is a jockey on a race horse. Racing a horse is a physically incredibly demanding task. Those jockeys are very fit athletes. They are always on a diet to keep their weight as close to the lower limit, without having to carry a penalty weight to reach that lower limit for the race. During the race they do not sit in the saddle, they support themselves with their thigh muscles and have to balance at high speed. Believe me, their faces do become red from the strain. As a spectator you may just not notice it.

The pic in your second post, well the face of the lady is not red. Just the guy's is. Meaning the camera did faithfully represent the difference in face color. It is fairly common for people attending a horse race to consume champagne, sometimes a little more than one glass. When you are intoxicated with alcohol, especially if this is was something you did habitually every day, well your face does turn red, no?

"Alcoholic face occurs in a person's appearance due to chronic alcohol abuse or alcoholism. So, how does it become expressed in our physical appearance? It is often seen as a red flush on the cheeks, nose, and under the eyes. One cause of an alcoholic face is the buildup of acetaldehyde in the body"

"Fortunately, most of the changes to your appearance caused by alcoholism can be reversed if you stop drinking"

horseracingphoto · Jul 21, 2024

cba_melbourne said:
You provide two sample pictures. I believe in both cases the faces of the subjects were indeed red. And the camera faithfully represented it, and captured the "mood of the day" very well. It would be IMO a big mistake to alter the face redness in post processing!

The first pic is a jockey on a race horse. Racing a horse is a physically incredibly demanding task. Those jockeys are very fit athletes. They are always on a diet to keep their weight as close to the lower limit, without having to carry a penalty weight to reach that lower limit for the race. During the race they do not sit in the saddle, they support themselves with their thigh muscles and have to balance at high speed. Believe me, their faces do become red from the strain. As a spectator you may just not notice it.

The pic in your second post, well the face of the lady is not red. Just the guy's is. Meaning the camera did faithfully represent the difference in face color. It is fairly common for people attending a horse race to consume champagne, sometimes a little more than one glass. When you are intoxicated with alcohol, especially if this is was something you did habitually every day, well your face does turn red, no?

"Alcoholic face occurs in a person's appearance due to chronic alcohol abuse or alcoholism. So, how does it become expressed in our physical appearance? It is often seen as a red flush on the cheeks, nose, and under the eyes. One cause of an alcoholic face is the buildup of acetaldehyde in the body"

"Fortunately, most of the changes to your appearance caused by alcoholism can be reversed if you stop drinking"

thank you for your reply but your are wrong. The red in the jockeys was no way like that. I have shot horse racing professionally nearly everyday for over 15 years and never got faces that red before, slightly pink maybe but nothing ever like that and I shot under floodlight during the winter at -4 and never got faces that red. As for the gentleman if that is caused by alcohol then he needs a doctor quick (yes it does make you red but not like that). It is obvious the camera is doing something to over saturate even the slightest hint of pink or red. I hoped to find the answer here and most have tried to help but with no solution.

I appreciate all that have contributed, you have my thanks. But once again on DPR you get the people either defending there chosen brand tribally (it can do nothing wrong and always the operator) or just looking to belittle someone.

I contacted OM twice and got no proper response from them either time, so the OM1 mark ii will sadly be going for a trade in.

knickerhawk · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
cba_melbourne said:

You provide two sample pictures. I believe in both cases the faces of the subjects were indeed red. And the camera faithfully represented it, and captured the "mood of the day" very well. It would be IMO a big mistake to alter the face redness in post processing!

The first pic is a jockey on a race horse. Racing a horse is a physically incredibly demanding task. Those jockeys are very fit athletes. They are always on a diet to keep their weight as close to the lower limit, without having to carry a penalty weight to reach that lower limit for the race. During the race they do not sit in the saddle, they support themselves with their thigh muscles and have to balance at high speed. Believe me, their faces do become red from the strain. As a spectator you may just not notice it.

The pic in your second post, well the face of the lady is not red. Just the guy's is. Meaning the camera did faithfully represent the difference in face color. It is fairly common for people attending a horse race to consume champagne, sometimes a little more than one glass. When you are intoxicated with alcohol, especially if this is was something you did habitually every day, well your face does turn red, no?

"Alcoholic face occurs in a person's appearance due to chronic alcohol abuse or alcoholism. So, how does it become expressed in our physical appearance? It is often seen as a red flush on the cheeks, nose, and under the eyes. One cause of an alcoholic face is the buildup of acetaldehyde in the body"

"Fortunately, most of the changes to your appearance caused by alcoholism can be reversed if you stop drinking"

Click to expand...

thank you for your reply but your are wrong. The red in the jockeys was no way like that. I have shot horse racing professionally nearly everyday for over 15 years and never got faces that red before, slightly pink maybe but nothing ever like that and I shot under floodlight during the winter at -4 and never got faces that red. As for the gentleman if that is caused by alcohol then he needs a doctor quick (yes it does make you red but not like that). It is obvious the camera is doing something to over saturate even the slightest hint of pink or red. I hoped to find the answer here and most have tried to help but with no solution.

I appreciate all that have contributed, you have my thanks. But once again on DPR you get the people either defending there chosen brand tribally (it can do nothing wrong and always the operator) or just looking to belittle someone.

I contacted OM twice and got no proper response from them either time, so the OM1 mark ii will sadly be going for a trade in.

In Photoshop “assign” sRGB as the colorspace for your last shot of the partying racing patrons. Isn’t that what you were expecting? If so, this is a color management issue that needs to be worked through, not a defective camera/system. If you describe the details of your workflow we might be able to assist you better.

Madoro · Jul 21, 2024

horseracingphoto said:
I hoped to find the answer here and most have tried to help but with no solution.

The problem, as I said earlier, is your color space settings and workflow. Above is the photo as it appears on the DPreview forums, and below is the exact same photo saved, then opened in Irfanview:

Redness in faces help

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