360 PPI vs 720 PPI

While it theoretically makes sense to use 720 ppi to preserve detail, detail cannot be created by expanding a file through interpolation. If the original file size and print size would produce less than 360 ppi, then raising the ppi to 720 will not add detail or otherwise improve the print, from my experience. In addition, improvements using 720 ppi, even where arguably warranted, does nothing discernable to the naked eye, in my experience, using the Epson 3880 or P900.
That's not what Keith Cooper concluded. See his YouTube video.
I have seen Keith's video and can only speak from my personal experience that using 720 ppi instead of 360 does not visibly improve prints, except perhaps under a microscope or where detail of the file would otherwise be significantly sacrificed.
 
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detail cannot be created by expanding a file through interpolation
It's resampling when you upscale that makes the big improvement.

This is an iPhone image at the original 96 DPI (I think it's 96) and then 300 DPI. Obviously it's zoomed way in, and I should add that I'm not doing traditional photography.

Before upscaling
Before upscaling

After upscaling to 300 DPI with resampling
After upscaling to 300 DPI with resampling
How about posting the full original and let folks judge for themselves.
 
How about posting the full original and let folks judge for themselves.
What I posted makes the point very clearly if you view those pix full size, and that's just at screenshot resolution.

It's not controversial - there's nothing to judge!
 
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and know-how on the subject. I went in under the assumption 720PPI would be a significant upgrade in print quality over 360PPI, especially since Epson suggests printing vector images in 720 (I am printing raster, but still) and after reading people’s experiences online, yours and watching the test by Keith.

However, with the images I print (i.e. black and white comics), I couldn’t see any difference whatsoever between 360 and 720 PPI, and I really care about this stuff and want the absolute best my Epson has to offer. I did a lot of small details testing, with halftone patterns from 5-70 LPI, gradients and high contrast, black and white shapes. But with the naked eye the 350PPI file looks just as sharp as the 720PPI.
For those interested, I made some photos of the 360 PPI and 720 PPI file under a 8x zoom magnifying glass. What you are looking at is about 12x12 mm on canvas. Not the sharpest photos and there is a little blur and warping on the edges of the photo due to the lens. But it’s good enough to get an idea of the difference (or lack of) between the two.

cbb4429c52a04107b35346522ffbf6f1.jpg

e89a3aa4d6384c0ab4e49d66a1d7018a.jpg
 
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Thanks. Would really like to see a full color range image on a fine art paper. Amazing how long this issue rages on and I still don't know the right answer.
 
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and know-how on the subject. I went in under the assumption 720PPI would be a significant upgrade in print quality over 360PPI, especially since Epson suggests printing vector images in 720 (I am printing raster, but still) and after reading people’s experiences online, yours and watching the test by Keith.

However, with the images I print (i.e. black and white comics), I couldn’t see any difference whatsoever between 360 and 720 PPI, and I really care about this stuff and want the absolute best my Epson has to offer. I did a lot of small details testing, with halftone patterns from 5-70 LPI, gradients and high contrast, black and white shapes. But with the naked eye the 350PPI file looks just as sharp as the 720PPI.
For those interested, I made some photos of the 360 PPI and 720 PPI file under a 8x zoom magnifying glass. What you are looking at is about 12x12 mm on canvas. Not the sharpest photos and there is a little blur and warping on the edges of the photo due to the lens. But it’s good enough to get an idea of the difference (or lack of) between the two.
What appears to be sharpening artifacts are definitely more prominent in the 720 dpi rendering. Otherwise not enough difference to write home about.
 
What appears to be sharpening artifacts are definitely more prominent in the 720 dpi rendering. Otherwise not enough difference to write home about.
This might not be such a good example after all. As the photo was shot by hand on my iPhone with handheld lighting and it could very well be that the second photo was taken a little bit closer than the first resulting in the camera not focussing correctly. I need to do a comparison with a camera that can do proper macro on a tripod with consistent lighting.
 
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I have a spreadsheet for my printers
Doesn't the printer's software (and Canon Pro Print & Layout) figure that out for you?
Nope. The printer software takes the image and scales it to the size you requested. This can result in rounding errors. My spreadsheet tells me how to scale the image before I print, avoiding rounding errors.
 
I have a spreadsheet for my printers
Doesn't the printer's software (and Canon Pro Print & Layout) figure that out for you?
Nope. The printer software takes the image and scales it to the size you requested. This can result in rounding errors. My spreadsheet tells me how to scale the image before I print, avoiding rounding errors.
How do you avoid ‘rounding errors’ if the printer, based on your paper/quality selections in printer settings, is going to ALWAYS insist on a specific PPI (for Epson 360, 720, 1440). If you do not send it what it wants, it will do its own conversion.
 
Plus I don't remember what the photo was.
Plus it's not a very good example. :-)
What are you talking about. It's a perfect example. You resample and the edges are smoother.

I'm not talking about the export DPI, I'm talking about resampling.

It's really annoying when people argue for the sake of arguing.
 
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I have a spreadsheet for my printers
Doesn't the printer's software (and Canon Pro Print & Layout) figure that out for you?
Nope. The printer software takes the image and scales it to the size you requested. This can result in rounding errors. My spreadsheet tells me how to scale the image before I print, avoiding rounding errors.
How do you avoid ‘rounding errors’ if the printer, based on your paper/quality selections in printer settings, is going to ALWAYS insist on a specific PPI (for Epson 360, 720, 1440). If you do not send it what it wants, it will do its own conversion.
You avoid rounding errors by making the size adjustments to give it exactly what it wants before you print. If you don't make the adjustment, then the driver's conversion can lead to rounding errors. Sometime you can't see the errors, so it makes no difference. But sometimes you can see the effect.

Try this: In photoshop, make a checkerboard pattern of black and white dots, say 360 x 360 pixels. Now print at exactly 360 ppi, and other ppi settings. At some settings, you will see a smooth middle gray print. At other settings, moire patterns appear. Some printers will show you the individual pixels under magnification. Others won't because of greater randomness in dot placement (usually caused by a larger gap between the paper and print head). CAD printers are designed for very sharp lines, so the head is very close to the paper. Photo printers are designed for smooth blending, so the heads are farther away from the paper to allow for a bit of randomness in the drop position.
 
I have a spreadsheet for my printers
Doesn't the printer's software (and Canon Pro Print & Layout) figure that out for you?
Nope. The printer software takes the image and scales it to the size you requested. This can result in rounding errors. My spreadsheet tells me how to scale the image before I print, avoiding rounding errors.
How do you avoid ‘rounding errors’ if the printer, based on your paper/quality selections in printer settings, is going to ALWAYS insist on a specific PPI (for Epson 360, 720, 1440). If you do not send it what it wants, it will do its own conversion.
You avoid rounding errors by making the size adjustments to give it exactly what it wants before you print. If you don't make the adjustment, then the driver's conversion can lead to rounding errors. Sometime you can't see the errors, so it makes no difference. But sometimes you can see the effect.

Try this: In photoshop, make a checkerboard pattern of black and white dots, say 360 x 360 pixels. Now print at exactly 360 ppi, and other ppi settings. At some settings, you will see a smooth middle gray print. At other settings, moire patterns appear. Some printers will show you the individual pixels under magnification. Others won't because of greater randomness in dot placement (usually caused by a larger gap between the paper and print head). CAD printers are designed for very sharp lines, so the head is very close to the paper. Photo printers are designed for smooth blending, so the heads are farther away from the paper to allow for a bit of randomness in the drop position.
So, you resize to what the printer driver wants….360, 720, 1440 (for Epson).
 
Plus I don't remember what the photo was.
Plus it's not a very good example. :-)
What are you talking about. It's a perfect example. You resample and the edges are smoother.

I'm not talking about the export DPI, I'm talking about resampling.

It's really annoying when people argue for the sake of arguing.
Without seeing the entire photograph, it's impossible to judge the significance, which doesn't appear to be much. Can you produce a better example from a complete photograph? I'm not arguing for its own sake, but rather pointing out the insignificance of up-rezing beyond 360 dpi on quality. I also tried going from 360 to 720 dpi years ago and found the practical improvement to be from none at all to insignificant. I print at 12x18 to 16x24, with most native resolution at 42 mpxl and 24 mpxl.
 
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How do you avoid ‘rounding errors’ if the printer, based on your paper/quality selections in printer settings, is going to ALWAYS insist on a specific PPI (for Epson 360, 720, 1440). If you do not send it what it wants, it will do its own conversion.
You avoid rounding errors by making the size adjustments to give it exactly what it wants before you print. If you don't make the adjustment, then the driver's conversion can lead to rounding errors. Sometime you can't see the errors, so it makes no difference. But sometimes you can see the effect.
So, you resize to what the printer driver wants….360, 720, 1440 (for Epson).
Everything in the printer prints at the mechanical resolution of 1440. If you send it an image at 360, each pixel is printed by a 4x4 array of dots. The larger the array, the more effective shades you get. So it isn't what the printer wants, it boils down to how the driver is going to build the dot arrays. The driver defaults to 1440 (1:1 ratio), 720 (1:2), 360 (1:4) and 180 (1:8) ppi. Most people uses these settings, but some drivers let you pick any ppi that you want. An Epson 1440 dpi using a 3x3 array is 1440/3=480 ppi. That isn't standard, but you can do it. 5x5 is 288 ppi. 6x6 is 240 ppi. 7x7 is 205.714 ppi, which will introduce rounding errors on every pixel, so skip that.

Inspired by Ansel Adams book "The Print", I try to work the process backwards. I plan the print size, figure the pixels needed to achieve a good dot array, then pick the camera that gets me to that number of pixels. If I need 19.44mp for a print, my D700 (12mp) won't work, and my Z9 (45mp) will require lots of cropping or rescaling (possible rounding errors). My Zf (24mp) is pretty close with minimal cropping and no rescaling. Sometimes I pick a different array size to better suit the cameras available.

BTW, some printers will directly accept lower ppi files (360ppi) and simply print each pixel 4 times, and do this for 4 rows. In effect, this makes it a 360 dpi printer, but this isn't the best way to achieve good results. There is no math involved, so it is a cheap and easy solution. Using the driver to convert gives the manufacturer the option to add optimization features, such as smoothing diagonal lines.
 
Euell wrote:
I'm not arguing for its own sake, but rather pointing out the insignificance of up-rezing beyond 360 dpi on quality. I also tried going from 360 to 720 dpi years ago and found the practical improvement to be from none at all to insignificant. I print at 12x18 to 16x24, with most native resolution at 42 mpxl and 24 mpxl.

Yeah, I'm too irritable. Apologies.

That upscaling is from 96 (I think that's what the iPhone 15 PM does) to 300 DPI.

For my application what it does to an entire photo doesn't matter, because I might draw upon fragments of 20 images for my pictures, and then use each one multiple times in different ways (one of them being blended layers for complex textures, i.e. not just shapes).

But when you take a fragment and blow it up, it does make a significant difference.

This is what I'm talking about (okay, a little bragging about my gallery show that opened this weekend).

ecc47bfdd37349748a968e3b9203dd85.jpg

(I'm the little guy in the white jacket - 6' tall. :) )

802286177f774695aef313cbe05ca3df.jpg
 
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Interesting and unusual application.

As an Epson user, I always set the file resolution to 360 dpi, rather than 720 dpi, unless that would result in a substantial reduction in file resolution. So, in your example, yes, I would also increase the resolution as you have done. Otherwise, the printer would increase the resolution anyway.
 

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