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Fuji 30mm T/S thoughts and comments

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Rodenmg said:
alan_b said:
Rodenmg said:
alan_b said:
Greg7579 said:
Ken West said:
203e17e18d5f437dac92fa36808636c7.jpg

This is the way I primarily use the lens.

Another option with a really right stuff lens collar with arca plate. In my experience when doing shifting and stitching, I don’t see any advantage to use the lens collar versus an L bracket for shifting and stitching the way I’ve been doing for many years with the Canon lenses like in the photo above .
Click to expand...
Ken, I have looked at these pics again, and beside my questions below, please tell me what you have there. You have the 34L but have added a center column? What is that pole sticking down the below the apex? What is the silver twist knob above the apex? Then what is that round thing that the cube is mounted on? Ten comes the Cube.
Click to expand...
Not Ken, but that's just RRS's center column. Useful for shooting studio/interiors when you need to adjust camera height a bit.
Rodenmg said:
What version would you recommend for use with my all RRS gear and lens feet and L plates and tripods? The Cube has many confusing versions.
Click to expand...
The Cube options can be categorized into 1. top pan style, and 2. clamp style.

1 a) Simple top pan with no detents or gearing, b) Geared-top pan with no detents, or c) click-detent top panning for pano use.

2 a) Standard Arca clamp in screw knob or b) lever 'Fliplock', c) 'Monoball Fix' clamp (IMO avoid unless you know what it's for).

I wouldn't start with a Cube - start by adding a panning clamp to your ballhead. It gets to be too much junk to carry w/ multiple heads. The ballhead with a panning clamp works for rotational panos too.
Click to expand...
The cube seems to me like primary a studio tool. Just me.
Click to expand...
There are many approaches! For some, architectural photography is a lot like studio/tabletop work with precision positioning and framing, which is where the Cube is helpful. Others find that cumbersome.
Rodenmg said:
But like I said I think the ball head of choice, with the RRS panning/leveling adapter, with a rail seems so useful and simple to me. Easy to carry in the bag and add the piece you need for the situation.
Click to expand...
Ball head w/ top pan vs ball head + leveling base generally accomplish the same thing. One (may have) redundant panning, the other has redundant ball joints. I like the simplicity of an inverted ball head like the Arca P0 or P1.
Click to expand...
If I understand what you might mean by redundant panning, that would be true only if the tripod and base of the ball head were level. I see the purpose of the panning/leveling adapter is the ability to have level panning independent of the tripod angle.

An extreme example:

1587800a28204e55acf9f47405a4878d.jpg
Click to expand...
That is an excellent lesson and pictorial example. Alan already said that too. It is why he says we often need a pan clamp on top of the ball head. It is redundant because if I had that I would never need the pan mechanism that is at the base of the RRS ball (and most other) heads. But Mike, I need help with this am considering removing the lever clamps (which are expensive) that came with my RRS BH-40 and 55 and replacing them with a pan clamp. What I think I see on this picture is a separate RRS pan clamp with lever clamped onto the RRS Ball; head that has a Lever clamp. Which should I do? Does RRS offer both? I want to remove my clamp mounts on top of the ball head and replace it with a panning clamp. What do you think guys? (Alan, Mike and Ken.)

--
Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
Greg7579 said:
Rodenmg said:
alan_b said:
Rodenmg said:
alan_b said:
Greg7579 said:
Ken West said:
203e17e18d5f437dac92fa36808636c7.jpg

This is the way I primarily use the lens.

Another option with a really right stuff lens collar with arca plate. In my experience when doing shifting and stitching, I don’t see any advantage to use the lens collar versus an L bracket for shifting and stitching the way I’ve been doing for many years with the Canon lenses like in the photo above .
Click to expand...
Ken, I have looked at these pics again, and beside my questions below, please tell me what you have there. You have the 34L but have added a center column? What is that pole sticking down the below the apex? What is the silver twist knob above the apex? Then what is that round thing that the cube is mounted on? Ten comes the Cube.
Click to expand...
Not Ken, but that's just RRS's center column. Useful for shooting studio/interiors when you need to adjust camera height a bit.
Greg7579 said:
What version would you recommend for use with my all RRS gear and lens feet and L plates and tripods? The Cube has many confusing versions.
Click to expand...
The Cube options can be categorized into 1. top pan style, and 2. clamp style.

1 a) Simple top pan with no detents or gearing, b) Geared-top pan with no detents, or c) click-detent top panning for pano use.

2 a) Standard Arca clamp in screw knob or b) lever 'Fliplock', c) 'Monoball Fix' clamp (IMO avoid unless you know what it's for).

I wouldn't start with a Cube - start by adding a panning clamp to your ballhead. It gets to be too much junk to carry w/ multiple heads. The ballhead with a panning clamp works for rotational panos too.
Click to expand...
The cube seems to me like primary a studio tool. Just me.
Click to expand...
There are many approaches! For some, architectural photography is a lot like studio/tabletop work with precision positioning and framing, which is where the Cube is helpful. Others find that cumbersome.
Greg7579 said:
But like I said I think the ball head of choice, with the RRS panning/leveling adapter, with a rail seems so useful and simple to me. Easy to carry in the bag and add the piece you need for the situation.
Click to expand...
Ball head w/ top pan vs ball head + leveling base generally accomplish the same thing. One (may have) redundant panning, the other has redundant ball joints. I like the simplicity of an inverted ball head like the Arca P0 or P1.
Click to expand...
If I understand what you might mean by redundant panning, that would be true only if the tripod and base of the ball head were level. I see the purpose of the panning/leveling adapter is the ability to have level panning independent of the tripod angle.

An extreme example:

1587800a28204e55acf9f47405a4878d.jpg
Click to expand...
That is an excellent lesson and pictorial example. Alan already said that too. It is why he says we often need a pan clamp on top of the ball head. It is redundant because if I had that I would never need the pan mechanism that is at the base of the RRS ball (and most other) heads. But Mike, I need help with this am considering removing the lever clamps (which are expensive) that came with my RRS BH-40 and 55 and replacing them with a pan clamp. What I think I see on this picture is a separate RRS pan clamp with lever clamped onto the RRS Ball; head that has a Lever clamp. Which should I do? Does RRS offer both? I want to remove my clamp mounts on top of the ball head and replace it with a panning clamp. What do you think guys? (Alan, Mike and Ken.)

--
Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139148982@N02/albums
Click to expand...
Yes, you can remove the standard clamp and mount the pan/level clamp directly to the ball. The reason I don’t is because I like the option of keeping my small tripod as light as possible and only add the PC-LR when I need it I also like being able to easily move it between different tripod/heads.

--
... Mike, formerly known as Rod. :)
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
 
Rodenmg said:
… I saw an explanation the other day that said that if you focus at infinity and tilt downward, you can get the (flat) ground in front of the tripod to infinity all in focus. Sounds lovely and simple and the way to solve a shortage of DoF, but I bet if I try it, it won't be as obvious at all. I've never managed to find any correlation between the theory and actually using tilt. It all seems basically random effects to me!
Click to expand...
That's how it goes.
Rodenmg said:
In this instance you have to remember that when you move the plane of focus to cover the ground anything that extends to the top of the frame, like tree or mountain tops, will be out of focus. So then all you can do is stop way down to try and bring them back
Click to expand...
Fortunately the plane of focus is more a wedge than a plane, so when you tilt forward those far trees or mountains will be in the dof wedge. But a small tree close to the camera is the problem.
 
I use lens rise and diagonal shift and rotate the camera body all at the same time to square something up at times with the 30mm TS and Canon tse lenses.. Never use any tilt with a wide angle lens.
 
Rodenmg said:
… I saw an explanation the other day that said that if you focus at infinity and tilt downward, you can get the (flat) ground in front of the tripod to infinity all in focus. Sounds lovely and simple and the way to solve a shortage of DoF, but I bet if I try it, it won't be as obvious at all. I've never managed to find any correlation between the theory and actually using tilt. It all seems basically random effects to me!

In this instance you have to remember that when you move the plane of focus to cover the ground anything that extends to the top of the frame, like tree or mountain tops, will be out of focus. So then all you can do is stop way down to try and bring them back
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand that is a problem. But I'd be happy to get a flat plane in focus front to back as that would at least suggest I'd found an entry point.
 
Rodenmg said:
Greg7579 said:
Rodenmg said:
alan_b said:
Rodenmg said:
alan_b said:
Greg7579 said:
Ken West said:
203e17e18d5f437dac92fa36808636c7.jpg

This is the way I primarily use the lens.

Another option with a really right stuff lens collar with arca plate. In my experience when doing shifting and stitching, I don’t see any advantage to use the lens collar versus an L bracket for shifting and stitching the way I’ve been doing for many years with the Canon lenses like in the photo above .
Click to expand...
Ken, I have looked at these pics again, and beside my questions below, please tell me what you have there. You have the 34L but have added a center column? What is that pole sticking down the below the apex? What is the silver twist knob above the apex? Then what is that round thing that the cube is mounted on? Ten comes the Cube.
Click to expand...
Not Ken, but that's just RRS's center column. Useful for shooting studio/interiors when you need to adjust camera height a bit.
Rodenmg said:
What version would you recommend for use with my all RRS gear and lens feet and L plates and tripods? The Cube has many confusing versions.
Click to expand...
The Cube options can be categorized into 1. top pan style, and 2. clamp style.

1 a) Simple top pan with no detents or gearing, b) Geared-top pan with no detents, or c) click-detent top panning for pano use.

2 a) Standard Arca clamp in screw knob or b) lever 'Fliplock', c) 'Monoball Fix' clamp (IMO avoid unless you know what it's for).

I wouldn't start with a Cube - start by adding a panning clamp to your ballhead. It gets to be too much junk to carry w/ multiple heads. The ballhead with a panning clamp works for rotational panos too.
Click to expand...
The cube seems to me like primary a studio tool. Just me.
Click to expand...
There are many approaches! For some, architectural photography is a lot like studio/tabletop work with precision positioning and framing, which is where the Cube is helpful. Others find that cumbersome.
Rodenmg said:
But like I said I think the ball head of choice, with the RRS panning/leveling adapter, with a rail seems so useful and simple to me. Easy to carry in the bag and add the piece you need for the situation.
Click to expand...
Ball head w/ top pan vs ball head + leveling base generally accomplish the same thing. One (may have) redundant panning, the other has redundant ball joints. I like the simplicity of an inverted ball head like the Arca P0 or P1.
Click to expand...
If I understand what you might mean by redundant panning, that would be true only if the tripod and base of the ball head were level. I see the purpose of the panning/leveling adapter is the ability to have level panning independent of the tripod angle.

An extreme example:

1587800a28204e55acf9f47405a4878d.jpg
Click to expand...
That is an excellent lesson and pictorial example. Alan already said that too. It is why he says we often need a pan clamp on top of the ball head. It is redundant because if I had that I would never need the pan mechanism that is at the base of the RRS ball (and most other) heads. But Mike, I need help with this am considering removing the lever clamps (which are expensive) that came with my RRS BH-40 and 55 and replacing them with a pan clamp. What I think I see on this picture is a separate RRS pan clamp with lever clamped onto the RRS Ball; head that has a Lever clamp. Which should I do? Does RRS offer both? I want to remove my clamp mounts on top of the ball head and replace it with a panning clamp. What do you think guys? (Alan, Mike and Ken.)
Click to expand...
Yes, you can remove the standard clamp and mount the pan/level clamp directly to the ball. The reason I don’t is because I like the option of keeping my small tripod as light as possible and only add the PC-LR when I need it I also like being able to easily move it between different tripod/heads.
Click to expand...
I know. I thought of that. I have three RRS tripods. I could just clamp a RRS pan head with lever on top of my three RRS tripods and BF 25, 40 and 55 ball heads.

I might permanently attach one to the BH-55 and get a separate clamp=on pan head for the BH 40. I've decided against leveling bases.

--
Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
Ken West said:
I use lens rise and diagonal shift and rotate the camera body all at the same time to square something up at times with the 30mm TS and Canon tse lenses.. Never use any tilt with a wide angle lens.
Click to expand...
I'm going to keep this quote in my notes and hope I can understand it as I start shooting with the 30 TS. I will be able to vertical shift immediately. I think I will be able to use shift to pan left and right for a 3 shot merge right away.

But I'm not sure what you mean above using lens rise, diagonal shift and rotating the camera body all at the same time... And I hope I can try some 30mm Tilt! You don't do that?

-
Greg Johnson, San Antonio, Texas

Greg Johnson’s albums | Flickr

www.flickr.com www.flickr.com
 
TimoKoo said:
Rodenmg said:
DMillier said:
Diagonal shift: a combination of rise and lateral shift.
Click to expand...
Are you saying a combination of rise and panning or actually rotating the lens itself and rising at an angle. The rise portion of the Gf lens can be rotated up to 180 degrees.
Click to expand...
Alan_b did rise at an angle. Compare those shifted and non-shifted pictures – look at verticals. That's the trick why to use T/S lenses, or one of them.
Click to expand...
Rise at an angle. Now that I don't understand yet and probably won't untill I get that lens.
 
Rodenmg said:
TimoKoo said:
Rodenmg said:
DMillier said:
Diagonal shift: a combination of rise and lateral shift.
Click to expand...
Are you saying a combination of rise and panning or actually rotating the lens itself and rising at an angle. The rise portion of the Gf lens can be rotated up to 180 degrees.
Click to expand...
Alan_b did rise at an angle. Compare those shifted and non-shifted pictures – look at verticals. That's the trick why to use T/S lenses, or one of them.
Click to expand...
Rise is pretty easy to get a hand on. But I’ve yet to experiment with rotating the lens and using rise at an angle. I’ll wait for Alan’s answer but it looks to me like vertical rise for distortion correction and a simple pan to reframe horizontally.
Click to expand...
I think he panned to the right from his original shot just in the normal way with any lens. Just some reframing before shooting a shift. But I'm saying that only because I don't understand diagonal shift. 😁
 
Greg7579 said:
TimoKoo said:
Rodenmg said:
DMillier said:
Diagonal shift: a combination of rise and lateral shift.
Click to expand...
Are you saying a combination of rise and panning or actually rotating the lens itself and rising at an angle. The rise portion of the Gf lens can be rotated up to 180 degrees.
Click to expand...
Alan_b did rise at an angle. Compare those shifted and non-shifted pictures – look at verticals. That's the trick why to use T/S lenses, or one of them.
Click to expand...
Rise at an angle. Now that I don't understand yet and probably won't untill I get that lens.
Click to expand...
It's not really something that needs understanding, you can just see it when you look through the viewfinder.
  • Shoot unshifted and you get a rectangle cut of the centre of the optical circle
  • Shoot shifted up and you get a rectangle cut out of the top of the optical circle
  • Shoot shifted down and you get a rectangle cut out of the bottom of the optical circle
  • Shoot shifted sideways and you a rectangle cut out of the side of the optical circle
  • Shoot diagonally shifted and you get a rectangle cut from the top/bottom left or right corners of the optical circle.
If you imagine the optical circle as a circular ultra wide lens image, shifting is just moving your sensor rectangle around within this wide picture and making a crop. It's no different from cropping small bits out of an image in post. You don't scratch your head over that!

The only reason why a shift lens seems magical is because you shoot with the camera level pointing in a particular direction, then shift the rectangle around to re-frame the image you want.

Framing by keeping the camera level and shifting rather than pointing the camera in different directions comes with one particular benefit which is the key reason people buy shift lenses: you can reframe your image left/right/up/down while keeping all your vertical lines vertical.
 
DMillier said:
Greg7579 said:
TimoKoo said:
Rodenmg said:
DMillier said:
Diagonal shift: a combination of rise and lateral shift.
Click to expand...
Are you saying a combination of rise and panning or actually rotating the lens itself and rising at an angle. The rise portion of the Gf lens can be rotated up to 180 degrees.
Click to expand...
Alan_b did rise at an angle. Compare those shifted and non-shifted pictures – look at verticals. That's the trick why to use T/S lenses, or one of them.
Click to expand...
Rise at an angle. Now that I don't understand yet and probably won't untill I get that lens.
Click to expand...
It's not really something that needs understanding, you can just see it when you look through the viewfinder.
  • Shoot unshifted and you get a rectangle cut of the centre of the optical circle
  • Shoot shifted up and you get a rectangle cut out of the top of the optical circle
  • Shoot shifted down and you get a rectangle cut out of the bottom of the optical circle
  • Shoot shifted sideways and you a rectangle cut out of the side of the optical circle
  • Shoot diagonally shifted and you get a rectangle cut from the top/bottom left or right corners of the optical circle.
If you imagine the optical circle as a circular ultra wide lens image, shifting is just moving your sensor rectangle around within this wide picture and making a crop. It's no different from cropping small bits out of an image in post. You don't scratch your head over that!

The only reason why a shift lens seems magical is because you shoot with the camera level pointing in a particular direction, then shift the rectangle around to re-frame the image you want.

Framing by keeping the camera level and shifting rather than pointing the camera in different directions comes with one particular benefit which is the key reason people buy shift lenses: you can reframe your image left/right/up/down while keeping all your vertical lines vertical.
Click to expand...
Thanks David!
 
You're welcome. Don't ask about tilt though. That can't be described without employing diagrams full of lines all sticking out in different directions that randomly change their position as you apply tilt, change aperture, focus at different differences, use different focal lengths, change the height of your camera or point it in different directions. There is no discernible pattern to any of the changes you can make, nor it is it obviously linear: huge changes in one parameter sometimes make no apparent difference, while the minutest change to another parameter entirely changes the image.

None of it makes any sense, and all the calculators, books, rules and demonstrations are just made up to make you feel like an absolute fool :-)
 
Greg, I may have made it sound more complicated than it really is, basically shifting the lens up and diagonally at the same time. Once you get it contact me and I can FaceTime you or tell you over the phone. It’s pretty simple and then to square things up I may rotate the cameras slightly. Just depends that on kind of shot I’m doing like an elevation shot or view. Just a normal three-quarter angle of a building or a space I typically just shift the lens up to balance out the top and bottom. All this is not that complicated once you get the lens and play with some of the options. I shoot at F 11 and that pretty much covers the depth the field on almost everything with a wide angle lens. With a longer lens like a canon 90 or the new Fuji 110 or a Canon 135 I would probably use some tilts of on that just depending if it’s needed.
 
DMillier said:
Rodenmg said:
… I saw an explanation the other day that said that if you focus at infinity and tilt downward, you can get the (flat) ground in front of the tripod to infinity all in focus. Sounds lovely and simple and the way to solve a shortage of DoF, but I bet if I try it, it won't be as obvious at all. I've never managed to find any correlation between the theory and actually using tilt. It all seems basically random effects to me!

In this instance you have to remember that when you move the plane of focus to cover the ground anything that extends to the top of the frame, like tree or mountain tops, will be out of focus. So then all you can do is stop way down to try and bring them back
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand that is a problem. But I'd be happy to get a flat plane in focus front to back as that would at least suggest I'd found an entry point.
Click to expand...
 
DMillier said:
You're welcome. Don't ask about tilt though. That can't be described without employing diagrams full of lines all sticking out in different directions that randomly change their position as you apply tilt, change aperture, focus at different differences, use different focal lengths, change the height of your camera or point it in different directions. There is no discernible pattern to any of the changes you can make, nor it is it obviously linear: huge changes in one parameter sometimes make no apparent difference, while the minutest change to another parameter entirely changes the image.

None of it makes any sense, and all the calculators, books, rules and demonstrations are just made up to make you feel like an absolute fool :-)
Click to expand...
I have read about tilt a lot and seen many diagrams and examples. I think I have a feel for it and will have some fun with it. But it is not a total DOF dream solution of getting all of our deep GFX scene in sharp focus at F8. LOL.
 
Greg7579 said:
Rodenmg said:
TimoKoo said:
Rodenmg said:
DMillier said:
Diagonal shift: a combination of rise and lateral shift.
Click to expand...
Are you saying a combination of rise and panning or actually rotating the lens itself and rising at an angle. The rise portion of the Gf lens can be rotated up to 180 degrees.
Click to expand...
Alan_b did rise at an angle. Compare those shifted and non-shifted pictures – look at verticals. That's the trick why to use T/S lenses, or one of them.
Click to expand...
Rise is pretty easy to get a hand on. But I’ve yet to experiment with rotating the lens and using rise at an angle. I’ll wait for Alan’s answer but it looks to me like vertical rise for distortion correction and a simple pan to reframe horizontally.
Click to expand...
I think he panned to the right from his original shot just in the normal way with any lens. Just some reframing before shooting a shift. But I'm saying that only because I don't understand diagonal shift. 😁
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. You don't understand it in theory.
 
Greg7579 said:
TimoKoo said:
Rodenmg said:
DMillier said:
Diagonal shift: a combination of rise and lateral shift.
Click to expand...
Are you saying a combination of rise and panning or actually rotating the lens itself and rising at an angle. The rise portion of the Gf lens can be rotated up to 180 degrees.
Click to expand...
Alan_b did rise at an angle. Compare those shifted and non-shifted pictures – look at verticals. That's the trick why to use T/S lenses, or one of them.
Click to expand...
Rise at an angle. Now that I don't understand yet and probably won't untill I get that lens.
Click to expand...
But when you get your hands (and your eyes) on it you'll understand it quickly. :-P
 
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