Only 8% market share? Is Fuji slipping?

Interesting observation.

Fijirumors 2 most recent articles have been about market share on one and AF issues on another.
That site has fallen off a bit in recent times. Or I´ve soured on Fuji.
Does nobody else find it extremely weird that the same people on one article can argue how Fuji is a small time player on the camera market, a niche somewhat… yet another article decry the fact their AF isn’t up to the level of the big time players that are Canon and Sony?
People want everything. Sure, I'd love an X100VII with a 100mp medium format sensor, a F2 35mm-85mm pancake zoom and 10 stops of IBIS. I wouldn't need another camera ever. However, I do not expect it especially from Fuji. I mean, people complain about Canon and they are #1. If they can't make people happy, then...
Surely even the most lacking in common sense individuals can put 2+2 together on this one and come to the correct conclusion?
Nope... this is dpreview. It is all about the specs.
 
No basis for any of the discussion and no rationale for the expectation. No understanding of production and supply chains. No understanding of market priorities.

Really, this thread is a complete comedy sketch. I hope Fuji are laughing all the way through it.
 
Really, this thread is a complete comedy sketch. I hope Fuji are laughing all the way through it.
Jaded comment of the day.
 
Fuji doesn’t give two hoots about market share, its focus is on hitting sales targets for each of its products. Supply shortages? Nobody at Fuji cares, and won’t unless and until the shortages prevent sales targets from being achieved, e.g. through mass cancellation of unfulfilled orders. Which seems unlikely, given that Fuji’s ‘strategy’ of deliberately created scarcity doesn’t seem to be putting customers off buying and then waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
This is what we assume based on their behavior, but can't believe they don't care about supply shortages and lost sales. Their brand name is suffering due to those supply/production issues and the perceived lack of modern AF.
As far as Fuji is concerned, the supply shortages aren’t adversely affecting the only performance measure that matters at board level - sales targets. Indeed Fuji’s CEO recently alluded to a strategy of creating brand cachet through scarcity. This isn’t the behaviour of a company remotely concerned with supply issues.
This is the behavior of a company that is saying we will make x number of individual units and sell them.

There is a failed concept in western business that says second place is the best of the losers. Fuji doesn't appear to be playing that game, and good for them.

A company doesn't have to achieve market dominance to be successful. They only need to sell what they can comfortably make. Another customer is always right around the corner.

At one point in my life I was a sole proprietor of a custom B&W photo lab. My annual sales would not have amounted to even a wee, tiny little blip on a chart when compared to the wholesalers or even the one hour C-41 labs, but I was able to support my family and I had a strong enough customer base that I was able to shut down for the entire month of September to go off travelling on photo safaris.

I had plenty of opportunity to "go big or go home" but I didn't want that hassle. And when the bottom fell out of silver imaging and the market I was serving ceased to exist it wasn't a big deal to shutter the operation and move on to doing something else. Going big would probably have cost me my house, not to mention hurting anyone I had hired.

Dominating a market can be a fools game, I'm happy that Fuji has decided that it's a game they aren't willing to play.
 
Patrick at Fuji Rumors reports Fuji had 8% of the mirrorless market in 2023. Canon led with 41%, followed by Sony (32%) and Nikon (13%).

This is interesting. Canon entered the mirrorless game late, their mirrorless offerings are clunky in size. Nikon is also a late entrant. Sony was serious about it and its market share shows that. Canon's share is surprising. But I'm surprised Fuji's share is so low. They were an early entrant with a diverse camera line and quality glass.
According to this article from the start of this month at japantoday.com:

]]]]in the fiscal year ended in March, it was the imaging division, which includes cameras, that was the biggest contributor to the company's record-high profit - the unit accounted for 37% of operating profit in fiscal 2023, versus 27% the year before.]]]]

https://japantoday.com/category/bus...ell-cameras.-now-it-can't-keep-up-with-demand

That strongly suggests that the Fuji people aren't losing any sleep over "market share." They are measuring success by their own metrics. Mind you, the article notes that this historic performance owes to the Tik-Tok-driven runaway success of the X100V. Not sure how or if a company extends or builds on a boost of that nature.
 
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Interesting observation.

Fijirumors 2 most recent articles have been about market share on one and AF issues on another.

Does nobody else find it extremely weird that the same people on one article can argue how Fuji is a small time player on the camera market, a niche somewhat… yet another article decry the fact their AF isn’t up to the level of the big time players that are Canon and Sony?
I don’t find it weird any longer; I expect it
Surely even the most lacking in common sense individuals can put 2+2 together on this one and come to the correct conclusion?

--
Stu-C
https://flickr.com/photos/138087015@N02/
 
Patrick at Fuji Rumors reports Fuji had 8% of the mirrorless market in 2023. Canon led with 41%, followed by Sony (32%) and Nikon (13%).

This is interesting. Canon entered the mirrorless game late, their mirrorless offerings are clunky in size. Nikon is also a late entrant. Sony was serious about it and its market share shows that. Canon's share is surprising. But I'm surprised Fuji's share is so low. They were an early entrant with a diverse camera line and quality glass.
According to this article from the start of this month at japantoday.com:

]]]]in the fiscal year ended in March, it was the imaging division, which includes cameras, that was the biggest contributor to the company's record-high profit - the unit accounted for 37% of operating profit in fiscal 2023, versus 27% the year before.]]]]

https://japantoday.com/category/bus...ell-cameras.-now-it-can't-keep-up-with-demand

That strongly suggests that the Fuji people aren't losing any sleep over "market share." They are measuring success by their own metrics. Mind you, the article notes that this historic performance owes to the Tik-Tok-driven runaway success of the X100V. Not sure how or if a company extends or builds on a boost of that nature.
Fujifilm Revenue Per Business Segment 2012-2023

Fujifilm Inverstor Relations

SOURCE: https://ir.fujifilm.com/en/investors/performance-and-finance/chart-annual.html
SOURCE: https://ir.fujifilm.com/en/investors/performance-and-finance/chart-annual.html

--
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you the less you know." - Diane Arbus
 
Patrick at Fuji Rumors reports Fuji had 8% of the mirrorless market in 2023. Canon led with 41%, followed by Sony (32%) and Nikon (13%).

This is interesting. Canon entered the mirrorless game late, their mirrorless offerings are clunky in size. Nikon is also a late entrant. Sony was serious about it and its market share shows that. Canon's share is surprising. But I'm surprised Fuji's share is so low. They were an early entrant with a diverse camera line and quality glass.
According to this article from the start of this month at japantoday.com:

]]]]in the fiscal year ended in March, it was the imaging division, which includes cameras, that was the biggest contributor to the company's record-high profit - the unit accounted for 37% of operating profit in fiscal 2023, versus 27% the year before.]]]]

https://japantoday.com/category/bus...ell-cameras.-now-it-can't-keep-up-with-demand

That strongly suggests that the Fuji people aren't losing any sleep over "market share." They are measuring success by their own metrics. Mind you, the article notes that this historic performance owes to the Tik-Tok-driven runaway success of the X100V. Not sure how or if a company extends or builds on a boost of that nature.
Fujifilm Revenue Per Business Segment 2012-2023
Fujifilm Inverstor Relations

SOURCE: https://ir.fujifilm.com/en/investors/performance-and-finance/chart-annual.html
SOURCE: https://ir.fujifilm.com/en/investors/performance-and-finance/chart-annual.html
Thank you. Excellent insight. To summarise, Imaging shows strong revenue growth over the last 3 financial years. Imaging is the smallest ‘division’ of the four, which include the rather obscure Business Innovation which exists as a separate corporation.
 
Patrick at Fuji Rumors reports Fuji had 8% of the mirrorless market in 2023. Canon led with 41%, followed by Sony (32%) and Nikon (13%).

This is interesting. Canon entered the mirrorless game late, their mirrorless offerings are clunky in size. Nikon is also a late entrant. Sony was serious about it and its market share shows that. Canon's share is surprising. But I'm surprised Fuji's share is so low. They were an early entrant with a diverse camera line and quality glass.
Fuji are only slipping if their 8% market share is a decrease.
 
Fuji are making cameras we want to use. That is good. They are bigger than a number of other players. A few years ago their chiefs view was that imaging was part of their heritage and profits are rising from imaging.

So all is looking OK to me. The ones to worry about are Pentax and OM and perhaps Panasonic. Sony is a content company that is ruthless with products that are not serving the company. Those are the marginal ones.
 
Fuji are making cameras we want to use. That is good. They are bigger than a number of other players. A few years ago their chiefs view was that imaging was part of their heritage and profits are rising from imaging.

So all is looking OK to me. The ones to worry about are Pentax and OM and perhaps Panasonic. Sony is a content company that is ruthless with products that are not serving the company. Those are the marginal ones.
I don't follow Olympus or Panasonic, but Pentax is a bit of a concern. They are really slow to release new stuff, though what they do make is good, albeit dated. I think if they don't release a K1 replacement by the end of the year that will indicate Ricoh has lost interest, and that will be very bad for the Pentax brand.
 
I think 8% is ok for an enthusiast/hobby brand.

Don't get me wrong, I shoot professionally with 2x XH2S's, but I am under no illusion I represent a minority.

Fuji put out a lot of cameras but none of them are really professional tools. They are hobbyist play things, a break away from the proper work tools. XH2S might be the exception to the rule.

GFX is a nice thing, but no pro shooting the serious Canikony offerings will consider it a replacement system, it's too niche still. Perhaps one day we'll see a global shutter GFX with A9III level of performance, but we're still far away from that day.

Without a Full Frame system it is unlikely they will ever truly dent that pie chart and become a major player. The perks APS-C once upon a time had over FF are gone, these days the FF cameras are out performing APS-C in ways of AF, burst rates and buffer. Some fuji cameras like the XH2/S are not even small or light.

Critical components such as AF are lacking behind. You will have many users change systems frequently between Canon, Nikon and Sony depending on what the next flagship body can do on those systems, but let's be honest, no one shooting A9III, Z9, R1 is going to move down to something like a buggy f/w glitchy AF XH2S. What I see happening more is people leaving Fuji over poor AF and go to a Canon, Nikon or Sony.

Fuji have a lot of work to do and need a better business model if they hope to stay truly relevant. The scarcity thing will only work for them for so long. They are riding a current trend of tiktok X100 fame that won't last. Trends come and go.
 
Fuji have a lot of work to do and need a better business model if they hope to stay truly relevant. The scarcity thing will only work for them for so long. They are riding a current trend of tiktok X100 fame that won't last. Trends come and go.
Most camera brands have hot and cold periods though. And Fuji has been getting warmer over a 13 year period. I mean, it wasn't until their 5th X100 model that they became trendy, but they still had five version of the camera before that happened.

As far as GFX, it seems to me to be very popular amongst artists who used to or still do use medium format film cameras. These would be professionals as well.

There are many types of professionals out there and they use all types of cameras. I mean Magnum is a professional organization and those photographers use everything from iPhone to Sony RX100 to Olympus and Fuji to Nikon, Sony and Canon to film in all formats.
 
Wasn’t it 5% previously? So it’s gained 3%.
Exactly. What people need to understand is that Fujifilm isn't only a camera company.

"Fujifilm products include document solutions, medical imaging and diagnostics equipment, cosmetics, pharmaceutical drugs, regenerative medicine, stem cells, biologics manufacturing, magnetic tape data storage, optical films for flat-panel displays, optical devices, photocopiers, printers, digital cameras, color films, color paper, photofinishing and graphic arts equipment and materials."
 
Wasn’t it 5% previously? So it’s gained 3%.
Exactly. What people need to understand is that Fujifilm isn't only a camera company.

"Fujifilm products include document solutions, medical imaging and diagnostics equipment, cosmetics, pharmaceutical drugs, regenerative medicine, stem cells, biologics manufacturing, magnetic tape data storage, optical films for flat-panel displays, optical devices, photocopiers, printers, digital cameras, color films, color paper, photofinishing and graphic arts equipment and materials."
Olympus was not only a camera company either.
True, anyone can sell off a piece of their business at any time. That doesn’t mean Fuji will. They obviously do business in a way that makes sense for them. I guess my point is that they are not trying to dominate the digital camera market.
Anyways, Fuji’s market share had slipped, but their profit margins are good. It’s actually hard for every camera maker to compete with Nikon firing on all cylinders right now. The Z9 / Z8 / Zf launches all in one year out a huge dent in everyone’s market share.

I think Fuji will probably settle around 5% long-term and that number makes sense. They don’t really have any unique lenses (e.g., Olympus 150-400, Olympus 12-100, Olympus 8-25, Olympus 90mm f/3.5 2:1 macro, PL 10-25 f/1.7, PL 25-50 f/1.7, etc). Their video bodies are clearly behind the GH line and some of the Sony bodies. What they have is a happy medium road option with nice SOOC JPEGs. That’s not a bad place to be as long as you are profitable.
 
I often think people that bring up these subjects work for DPreview to bring more traffic to the site. Take the subject to Forbes forums lol or The Economist
 
Pentax has done what Olympus did in the late 1980s, it has lost touch with its market. Olympus took its magnificent OM range and added the OM101, Pentax has failed to move into mirrorless and has produced the wrong type of film camera - it should have produced a proper SLR for which there is a full range of lenses. A choice of film or a modern full frame sensor digital bodies might just have breathed life into the company.

--
Andrew Skinner
 
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Pentax has done what Olympus did in the late 1980s, it has lost touch with its market. Olympus took its magnificent OM range and added the OM101, Pentax has failed to move into mirrorless and has produced the wrong type of film camera - it should have produced a proper SLR for which there is a full range of lenses. A choice of film or a modern full frame sensor digital bodies might just have breathed life into the company.
Actually, you're fairly misinformed here.

If we're talking about Pentax 'losing the battle' between the major companies, that fall happened decades ago, ever since Hoya acquired Pentax early 2000's. From this point on (and of course a few years/decade earlier), Pentax would never be able to compete at the same level. It was only a matter of time till technology shifted and Pentax would find themselves unable to financially pivot. The Pentax K-1 was in many ways Pentax's real last gift to its loyal fan base as they all were crying out for a digital full frame camera (in which to use all their older vintage glass), but that was 2016 and no successor since. Their medium format line died, the pulled back from brick and mortar stores, became workshop based and focused on the Eastern (Japanese) market only (where APS-C tends to do better), anything sold in the West was a bonus but never banked on.

The part you're wrong about tho is the Pentax 17. That thing is flying off the shelves, it is experiencing its own little 'Fuji X100VI' moment of fame, similar to their parent company with the Ricoh GRIII, struggling to fulfill orders. The amount of units they have sold is astonishing, I was privy to the information for the first week of total sales for Australia (I am affiliated with Pentax) and it was honestly jaw dropping. I would not at all be surprised if the Pentax 17 will out profit their last few years of digital bodies sales (and all its variants). Pentax have totally knocked the ball out of the park with this one, calling this the 'wrong type of film camera' couldn't be further from the truth, at least from a profit/financial perspective. We might not be the customers (that it appeals to), but there has (and still is) definitely a strong customer base wanting this camera.

There is serious doubt a K-1III would actually do all that well. Who in 2024 wants a chunky DSLR which will surely lack in many specs compared to what we can have today with our mirrorless cousins. So the idea of breathing life back into the company with a new digital body is just not a very good assertion, it hasn't been working very well for them for the last decade or so. The problem is, because their funding and resources are much smaller, by the time they actually have the camera built and ready for sale, its woefully out of date. The K3III would have been a great camera in 2017, but in 2022 it was already lacking. Right now I am not sure a K-1III would even beat a Nikon D850 in specs, is this really something that everyone wants? A Pentax 'D850'? And can you imagine the price they will charge for it? They haven't exactly been cheap of late..
 
Pentax's decline has been steady and gradual and the current position is probably the final turn out of years of gradual decline, yes I agree. It upsets me (a little) as around the time of the K mount coming out they were a big brand. I think their out of touch-ness started with the ME, with no direct control of shutter speed but otherwise a splendid camera. My first good camera was a Pentax and I've still got one (a black Spotmatic F) as a souvenir. Did Hoya call is correctly when they sold the cameras and kept the endoscope business? Probably.
 
Pentax's decline has been steady and gradual and the current position is probably the final turn out of years of gradual decline, yes I agree. It upsets me (a little) as around the time of the K mount coming out they were a big brand. I think their out of touch-ness started with the ME, with no direct control of shutter speed but otherwise a splendid camera. My first good camera was a Pentax and I've still got one (a black Spotmatic F) as a souvenir. Did Hoya call is correctly when they sold the cameras and kept the endoscope business? Probably.
Yeh. K-1 is a fantastic camera, even in 2024, if it matches well with the subject matter (landscapes).

I hope they continue on the film side of things, I think it feels like a good corner for them to settle into and provide within the photographic community. If they do digital I think they have to start doing something more interesting than a generic DSLR, or something like a fixed lens only, something that will have wide appeal and be more 'experience based' than something the working tog needs. It needs to not compete with the rest, a task easier said than done.
But for now, we should be rejoicing, they really needed a win and they have that with the Pentax 17.
 

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