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Z800 f6.3 PF vs. F mount 600 f4.0

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alaska_av8r

alaska_av8r

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I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.

thanks

Tim
 
alaska_av8r said:
I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.

thanks

Tim
Click to expand...
They seem quite different. I have the 600 f/4E and yes, it's a bit of a porker, but I don't want to part with f/4. Do you really need 200mm more reach?

An acquaintance (slight-build 50s female) uses the Z 800 and has no problems managing it but often times in her uses it's too much reach. (She's a birder, usually in shores and estuaries).

If portability is the priority and more reach isn't needed, have you considered the Z 400mm, maybe couple it with a teleconverter? The Z 600 PF?
 
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alaska_av8r said:
I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.

thanks

Tim
Click to expand...
 
Depends on how critical you are re IQ and what you do with your pics. Do you sell them? Do you make huge prints? Or are they for your own enjoyment?

You will get lots of suggestions but only you can decide if the IQ of the 800 is good enough, no-one else can do this for you!!

It is a big decision. If you can, hire an 800 lens and then you can compare.

--
Geo C
http://www.gec.photography
 
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alaska_av8r said:
I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.

thanks

Tim
Click to expand...
I love the 600 f/4 AFS VR and continue to own it. It's incredibly sharp. But for mobility and a balance of weight and performance, the 800mm PF is a great addition. I continue to have both lenses.

The 800mm PF is terrific handheld and when mobility is required. Last week I was visiting a large manmade wetlands, and made daily walks of more than 5 miles in 80-85 degree heat and high humidity. The first day I carried both the 400mm f/4.5 and the 800mm PF - but only used the 800mm after there was enough light. The second day I carried the 800mm lens only. Image quality is excellent, but just below the 600mm f/4. You do give up 1.3 stops. But if I'm walking 5+ miles in heat and humidity, I don't want to carry the 600mm f/4 and a tripod with gimbal. I've done that before.

On the other hand, the 600mm f/4 is ideal for low light and works well with a TC - especially the 1.4TC. If you are on a tripod with a gimbal and don't need mobility, it's a great choice. I've kept mine because the optics are great, and the resale has dropped to the point I won't sell the lens. I used it as my primary lens for the recent solar eclipse and never used the 800mm PF.

I've only had one occasion where I carried both the 800mm PF and the 600mm f/4 - the eclipse. And the 800mm PF went unused. For me, it's clear when I need or want the 600mm vs. the 800mm. They are very different. Optical quality is really not an issue, but if it is a factor, the 600mm is the choice by a small amount. I don't think you can see a difference in sharpness with the final images without a highly magnified view.
 
I have the 800 f6.3. It's an excellent lens, and for me, easy to handhold. It's perhaps not quite up to the 600f4 F standard, but if you want the extra 200mm, then it's probably the way to go.

I did recently consider getting an F mount 600 f4 to use with the FTZII, given the current 'reasonable' secondhand prices, but it's heavy and doesn't balance well. I chose to get the 400mm f2.8TC which is hand holdable, gives me the option of 560 f4, and produces very nice image quality, albeit at a much higher cost.

Unless you need to cash out the 600, I think I'd keep it. I've hung onto my 500 f4VR and 300 f2.8 VRII as I won't get very much for them.
 
alaska_av8r said:
I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.
Click to expand...
Tim, with the statement in bold above, I think your best option is to go for a Z 600mm f/6.3 S PF.

I also had the 600mm f/4E FL VR and sold it for nearly half price when the 800mm PF came out and I immediately ordered it within half an hour of the announcement. But at that time the 800mm PF lens was heavily back ordered and I had to travel for a month. Because I could not risk the lens being shipped when no one was at home, I canceled the pre-order.

While I was waiting, I started to use the Nikon 500mm f/5.6 VR and I enjoyed using it a fair bit more than the 600mm f/4 because of the portability and ease of use (no special considerations - just regular caps, regular filters, medium sized backpack, etc. like a normal lens like a 70-200 f/2.8 or a 100-400).

In the past one month, I revisited this issue whether to supplement the 500mm PF with the 800mm PF or just sell the 500mm PF for the 600mm PF. In fact, I tried all 3 Nikon Z lightweight superteles - 400mm f/4.5, 600mm f/6.3 S and 800mm f/6.3 S.

All 3 are great lenses and the 800mm PF seems almost as good as the 600mm f/4 that I had. But then I realized I had the 600mm f/4E FL VR for around 6 or 7 years but hardly used it because you really need to plan your outing and use of it as it is not a regular lens like the 70-200. The 600 f/4E FL itself was considered a lightweight compared to the previous generation 600mm. I think my use of the 800mm PF would end up being very similar - planned extremely occasional use. Hence I decided to keep the 600mm PF as I consider it as the most optimized lens with respect to image quality plus being the longest focal length and weight I will actually use frequently.

In other words a better 500mm PF and not needing an FTZ II adapter. Maybe in the future, I may buy an 800mm PF if I gravitate more towards bird photography but maybe by then there might be a very lightweight 500mm f/4.5 lens with a built-in TC (to double as a 700mm f/6.3 lens). But more likely, as I am not getting younger or fitter I would never ever want to deal with the exotic (non regular) super telephotos.
 
Thanks for all of the great input. I also want to clarify that the only reason I’m looking to get rid of the 600/f4 is the weight, it is the latest generation f-mount but its a challenge for me to handle now.

I am shooting it on a full gimbal and tripod 90$ of the time, I did get to briefly hold one that was attached to a Z9 and was amazed at the weight difference. I will be using it primarily with my Z8.

tim
 
The 800 PF is definitely more manageable in terms of weight compared to the 600 f/4E - and feels a lot easier to handle. It is definitely a great option if your primary shooting is small birds or wildlife not very close by - i.e. you need 800mm. If you are shooting on a gimbal and a tripod a lot of time as you say, and occasionally hand held it will be an awesome lens. The 600 PF will allow you to go without tripod more frequently. Both are great lenses and I wish I can justify both - probably I can if I really increase my forays into bird photography. If I had both, I would probably use the 800 locally and 600 for hikes and for travel.
alaska_av8r said:
Thanks for all of the great input. I also want to clarify that the only reason I’m looking to get rid of the 600/f4 is the weight, it is the latest generation f-mount but its a challenge for me to handle now.

I am shooting it on a full gimbal and tripod 90$ of the time, I did get to briefly hold one that was attached to a Z9 and was amazed at the weight difference. I will be using it primarily with my Z8.

tim
Click to expand...
 
alaska_av8r said:
Thanks for all of the great input. I also want to clarify that the only reason I’m looking to get rid of the 600/f4 is the weight, it is the latest generation f-mount but its a challenge for me to handle now.
Click to expand...
In other words, you already have the latest F-mount, 600mm/f4 FL version that is an E lens, and it is considerably lighter than its predecessors. I have the 2007, non-FL version of the 600mm/f4 G AF-S VR; mine is a 11-pound lens. The Z-mount 600mm/f4 with TC is similar in weight as your 600/f4 FL.

The 800mm/f6.3 PF is about 2 pounds lighter than the 600/4 TC. Therefore there is some weight reduction if you go that route. I don't think you need to worry about image quality. I have done side-by-side shooting with the Z 600/4 TC and 800/6.3 PF, and I don't think there is any major difference. The question is (1) whether f6.3 is too slow and (2) whether 800mm could be too long in some occasions.

If the F 600mm/f4 FL is too heavy for you, it won't get better with the Z 600mm/f4 TC. Therefore, your choices are either the 800/6.3 PF or 600/6.3 PF. They are both f6.3 so that it is a wash.

If you are into bird photography, you probably want the 800mm PF. For sports, 800mm could be too long. It really depends on your subjects.
alaska_av8r said:
I am shooting it on a full gimbal and tripod 90$ of the time, I did get to briefly hold one that was attached to a Z9 and was amazed at the weight difference. I will be using it primarily with my Z8.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you, i use my 600 for wildlife so the extra reach will be nice to have and be able to take off cross country without having to hire sherpas would also be nice.

tim
 
alaska_av8r said:
I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.

thanks

Tim
Click to expand...
I haven't owned the 600 f4E or G, but I do own the 400 f2.8E FL VR which is about the same weight as the 600 f4E. Like the 600 f4, the 400 f2.8E FL VR is insanely sharp and with superb IQ. I use it with all the TC's for a superb 560 f4, 680 f5 and 800 f5.6. On the Z camera's it has a new lease of life due to the AF accuracy over the old F mount DSLR's. However, like you, I do not like the weight and rarely use it now. I have the 500 f5.6 PF (F mount), Z 800 f6.3 PF and just ordered the Z 600 f6.3 PF which I should receive early next week.

As much as the 400 f2.8E FL VR is superb lens, I really do not miss it as the current crop of Z mount tele lenses have great IQ and are much lighter. It means being able to pack more lenses in the backpack rather than just the 400 f2.8!
 
Lance B said:
I haven't owned the 600 f4E or G, but I do own the 400 f2.8E FL VR which is about the same weight as the 600 f4E. Like the 600 f4, the 400 f2.8E FL VR is insanely sharp and with superb IQ. I use it with all the TC's for a superb 560 f4, 680 f5 and 800 f5.6. On the Z camera's it has a new lease of life due to the AF accuracy over the old F mount DSLR's. However, like you, I do not like the weight and rarely use it now. I have the 500 f5.6 PF (F mount), Z 800 f6.3 PF and just ordered the Z 600 f6.3 PF which I should receive early next week.
Click to expand...
I think you'll like the 600. ;)
 
BasilG said:
Lance B said:
I haven't owned the 600 f4E or G, but I do own the 400 f2.8E FL VR which is about the same weight as the 600 f4E. Like the 600 f4, the 400 f2.8E FL VR is insanely sharp and with superb IQ. I use it with all the TC's for a superb 560 f4, 680 f5 and 800 f5.6. On the Z camera's it has a new lease of life due to the AF accuracy over the old F mount DSLR's. However, like you, I do not like the weight and rarely use it now. I have the 500 f5.6 PF (F mount), Z 800 f6.3 PF and just ordered the Z 600 f6.3 PF which I should receive early next week.
Click to expand...
I think you'll like the 600. ;)
Click to expand...
I know I will. :-D
 
The 600 F4 lenses are out of my budget.

Sometimes when I shoot with the 800 PF, the images seem flat like a kit lens. I think it's from shooting backlit subjects. I've read PF lenses lose contrast with some suboptimal lighting. Have others experienced this?

The main spot I encounter this is in a birding spot that is both backlit and covered with leaves so the light often has a greenish tint. I took the 400 F4.5 to Costa Rica with many similar conditions and didn't really pay attention to light and didn't have issues.
 
Lance B said:
BasilG said:
Lance B said:
I haven't owned the 600 f4E or G, but I do own the 400 f2.8E FL VR which is about the same weight as the 600 f4E. Like the 600 f4, the 400 f2.8E FL VR is insanely sharp and with superb IQ. I use it with all the TC's for a superb 560 f4, 680 f5 and 800 f5.6. On the Z camera's it has a new lease of life due to the AF accuracy over the old F mount DSLR's. However, like you, I do not like the weight and rarely use it now. I have the 500 f5.6 PF (F mount), Z 800 f6.3 PF and just ordered the Z 600 f6.3 PF which I should receive early next week.
Click to expand...
I think you'll like the 600. ;)
Click to expand...
I know I will. :-D
Click to expand...
Haha - I love mine :)
 
vcxz said:
. I've read PF lenses lose contrast with some suboptimal lighting. Have others experienced this?
Click to expand...
I use my 800 pf a lot living close by estuaries, marshes and the coast… its superb in those environments for small and medium birds, including in flight. I find strong backlighting beautifully handled… and the bokeh can be gorgeous…

if I am super-critical compared to Z400 f/4.5 with 1.4 TC there is a smidgen less acuity .. but only when comparing side by side. ..

What I do notice is that the 800 because of its compression and reach is often more susceptible to warm/cold air refraction .. so I need to be mindful of the shooting conditions. Warm/cold air refraction can bleed acuity and colour definition… but you learn to work around it.

--
Simon
https://www.flickr.com/people/suffolkimages/
 
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Yes, heat distortion can really soften images shot over a long distance. It's usually worse here in SoCal than in the UK.
 
A Owens said:
alaska_av8r said:
I am looking to finally move all lenses from F mount over to the Z mount so no more adapters. I also find the weight due to medical reasons is too much for me to shoot effectively so i want to find something lighter weight than my 600 f4 and would love input from those of you that have owned both. I love the insane sharpness that the 600 gives and that is my only drawback.

thanks

Tim
Click to expand...
I have the 800pf. It replaced an older 600/4. I do feel the 800pf is a step down optically from the 600/4 but it's low weight, incredible VR and AF more than make up for it. And if you don't need 800mm, the 600pf offers the same advantages with bells on.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. I've been very tempted by the new 800 but I've heard of some gotchas. I'll likely end up forking over for the Z TC 600 eventually as I very often find myself wanting more than 600.
 
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