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sadly pixel shift and the moon won't become friends

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fotopaul

fotopaul

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I had the great plan to use the Z8's pixel shift feature to create double resolution images of the moon with my strongly limited long-lens selection (trusty old 70-300 AF-S with a FTZII) but the results are sadly not usable at all. First I thought it was some fault with my software or the pictures, but now I read on a lightroom forum the moon's movement might actually already be too fast for the pixel shift timing.

To make this post more than just a rant (in case it is possible to use pixel shift to "upres" the moon, feel free to point out how xD), here are some (black sky somewhat cropped) failed results...





aafefd6332fc46c7968ea7d2e7fadf33.jpg



25950ffbe3d14eccb4870e1c7e10d681.jpg

So there. Guess I will have to invest in more reach at some point ^^
 
fotopaul said:
I had the great plan to use the Z8's pixel shift feature to create double resolution images of the moon with my strongly limited long-lens selection (trusty old 70-300 AF-S with a FTZII) but the results are sadly not usable at all. First I thought it was some fault with my software or the pictures, but now I read on a lightroom forum the moon's movement might actually already be too fast for the pixel shift timing.
To make this post more than just a rant (in case it is possible to use pixel shift to "upres" the moon, feel free to point out how xD), here are some (black sky somewhat cropped) failed results...

aafefd6332fc46c7968ea7d2e7fadf33.jpg

25950ffbe3d14eccb4870e1c7e10d681.jpg

So there. Guess I will have to invest in more reach at some point ^^
Click to expand...
Or a tracking mount.
 
The moon ist pretty fast. Look at the Video below. I made this video with a tripod. It shows the movement of the moon. Pixel shift is just a gimmick... the most overrated gimmick.

 
Perhaps an astro tracker would help? I'm not an astro tog, but I hear they make such things?
 
Recommend looking into image stacking software, e.g. AutoStakkert
 
Kamil Z said:
Pixel shift is just a gimmick... the most overrated gimmick.
Click to expand...
Me, thinking of other subjects that don't actually move...
Waiting for this gimmick to arrive in my cameras (that. might not ever happen)...
 
Kamil Z said:
The moon ist pretty fast. Look at the Video below. I made this video with a tripod. It shows the movement of the moon. Pixel shift is just a gimmick... the most overrated gimmick.

Click to expand...
Fully agree, never understood why it gets pushed so much by many brands. So many YouTubers also push it for landscape, I find it terrible for landscape.

Its only good for controlled indoor product photography imo.
 
You removed the EXIF data. But usually the moon goes at f/8 and 1/100 reasonably well. That means the moon moves 1/12000 of its diameter during each exposure. I have no idea how fast your pixel shift works. But atmospheric problems look like a more reasonable explanation of your problems.
 
I totally agree that moon may have more then half a pixel of movment in 1/20s (given the Z8's 20fps speed).

But your pictures are too blurry for that. The movement shows as artifact, not as out of focus blurriness. This seems like atmospheric or camera movement issue.

Are your individual frames sharp and in focus?
 
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ChrisGibbons001 said:
Kamil Z said:
The moon ist pretty fast. Look at the Video below. I made this video with a tripod. It shows the movement of the moon. Pixel shift is just a gimmick... the most overrated gimmick.

Click to expand...
Fully agree, never understood why it gets pushed so much by many brands. So many YouTubers also push it for landscape, I find it terrible for landscape.

Its only good for controlled indoor product photography imo.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. Very few landscapes benefit from it. I think a lot of the attraction is more than it provides a "game" to be mastered rather than truly improving photography, similar to how pre-capture has provided us a plethora of rather ugly images that are otherwise now technically possible. (Not saying pre-capture is useless. It can actually used to great effect. Only that many cases are now simply about pre-capture itself rather than good composition.)
 
Kamil Z said:
The moon ist pretty fast. Look at the Video below. I made this video with a tripod. It shows the movement of the moon. Pixel shift is just a gimmick... the most overrated gimmick.

Click to expand...
Definitely not a gimmick. You just have to know when to use it and when not.
 
JasonTheBirder said:
ChrisGibbons001 said:
Kamil Z said:
The moon ist pretty fast. Look at the Video below. I made this video with a tripod. It shows the movement of the moon. Pixel shift is just a gimmick... the most overrated gimmick.

Click to expand...
Fully agree, never understood why it gets pushed so much by many brands. So many YouTubers also push it for landscape, I find it terrible for landscape.

Its only good for controlled indoor product photography imo.
Click to expand...
Exactly right. Very few landscapes benefit from it. I think a lot of the attraction is more than it provides a "game" to be mastered rather than truly improving photography, similar to how pre-capture has provided us a plethora of rather ugly images that are otherwise now technically possible. (Not saying pre-capture is useless. It can actually used to great effect. Only that many cases are now simply about pre-capture itself rather than good composition.)
Click to expand...
Exactly false. It can be very good for any kind of (static) human made structures and textures. The basic four image pixelshit will get bayer free, sharper image without moire. Artwork, product and architecture photographers likely find it welcome feature.
 
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fotopaul said:
I had the great plan to use the Z8's pixel shift feature to create double resolution images of the moon with my strongly limited long-lens selection (trusty old 70-300 AF-S with a FTZII) but the results are sadly not usable at all. First I thought it was some fault with my software or the pictures, but now I read on a lightroom forum the moon's movement might actually already be too fast for the pixel shift timing.
Click to expand...
Yes, the moon moves, and it moves relatively fast as others have pointed out.

What no one seems to have yet figured out is that in this particular case it's the software that's at fault, not pixel shift per se.

Assuming your capture was on a very solid support system, the moon moves in a known and constant fashion. Thus you have images taken over a period of time that need a different alignment than a simple stack to recapture the pixel shift advantages. Knowing the time of each image taken and your location, the images could be restacked to correct for the moon's motion and you'd get the pixel shift advantages back. NX Studio is dirt stupid in this regard, and just does the simple stack.

This is one reason why I tell people to be careful about what images they delete. Processing capabilities are relatively far behind hardware capabilities. Eventually someone gets the software done right, and a previously less usable image becomes usable again.
 
Thom Hogan said:
fotopaul said:
I had the great plan to use the Z8's pixel shift feature to create double resolution images of the moon with my strongly limited long-lens selection (trusty old 70-300 AF-S with a FTZII) but the results are sadly not usable at all. First I thought it was some fault with my software or the pictures, but now I read on a lightroom forum the moon's movement might actually already be too fast for the pixel shift timing.
Click to expand...
Yes, the moon moves, and it moves relatively fast as others have pointed out.

What no one seems to have yet figured out is that in this particular case it's the software that's at fault, not pixel shift per se.

Assuming your capture was on a very solid support system, the moon moves in a known and constant fashion. Thus you have images taken over a period of time that need a different alignment than a simple stack to recapture the pixel shift advantages. Knowing the time of each image taken and your location, the images could be restacked to correct for the moon's motion and you'd get the pixel shift advantages back. NX Studio is dirt stupid in this regard, and just does the simple stack.

This is one reason why I tell people to be careful about what images they delete. Processing capabilities are relatively far behind hardware capabilities. Eventually someone gets the software done right, and a previously less usable image becomes usable again.
Click to expand...
Since the image is moving, the "shift" happens across, say, 4 pixels between images. So the software should align it back 3.5 pixels?

I would think that Photoshop should be able to do this with the Alignment function, and have a tunable shift built in?
 
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