No viewfinder ?! No problem.

It was about 4pm, bright sunlight, not a cloud in the sky...and I just had the itch to go shoot. I knew my camera didn't have a hot shoe for a flash to go on there, I knew it didn't have a mechanical shutter, and I knew it didn't have a viewfinder but, for what I needed it to do...none of that stuff could stop me. To be completely honest, this camera is punching well above it's means and it has far exceeded MY expectations. I was only buying it to be a second body to the S5ii but, out of all the cameras I own...I've only been grabbing this one. It's just a fun experience, and I think the Lumix Lab app adds to that for sure. If I would have listened to all the bad reviews or noise about this camera from people on YouTube, I would have never got these images (all of which are straight out of camera by the way.) But I'm glad I didn't listen, and neither should anybody else. While the camera won't be an option for some people, it's working just fine for me.

I am glad you started this topic, as there are no previous S9 discussion topics on this forum.

Copy that ! Yeah I've just been shooting and sharing really. Trying to find more S9 users.

These are some great shots; I admire good "street" shooting, even though it is not my preferred genre or comfort zone. The LUT you're using suits it well. If the S9 had a remote release socket I would have been very interested in it as a compact, lightweight camera for astrophotography, where an EVF is not necessary (but a cable release often is).

I am noticing green and magenta colour "splotches"/banding in some of your images here, the same issue I am seeing on some ooc jpegs from my S5 (I have a thread in the forum on this subject). From this and other sources online it seems this jpeg issue is evident in the newer cameras as well. Hopefully Panasonic can address this, especially since they are now marketing ooc jpeg-centric photography.

What's up Lettermanian ! See you, and thanks for watching ! Appreciate the words also. This LUT in particular definitely pushes greens and magentas, for sure...aside from splotches / banding. So maybe it was just a little hot in the pants in that regard. I haven't really dialed back any of the LUTS yet, I think I'm still in that SOOC phase and just seeing what different looks do in different situations. I have no doubt though, that once I get the settings right, it will be dialed ! Can't lie though, off to a great start...and I'm liking what the S9 is putting out. Getting a lot of compliments as well. We'll see though.. I'm sure future updates will improve it even more. I just got a new lens for the S5ii, can't wait to shoot that and seeing how the Lumix Lab app interacts w/ that body as well.. I wanna see what gets made available for it. Anyway, thanks again...see you outside man ! Just go shoot !

I just went back and looked, to try and find what "banding" you were speaking of... And honestly I couldn't see anything. But for example, if you were talking about the image of the California Flag... It would appear to be "banding" maybe but, the LUT used takes browns, and kind of punches them up, into a saturated burnt orange or so.. Or it takes red / pink blotches of skin, and richens them up, into a deeper red / burnt orange. I notice it also takes greens and makes them pop more also. Any "banding" that you might be seeing, I wouldn't say that's banding. I would say originally those were browns or pinks, and the LUT punches them up into saturated oranges and reds. But let me know what images you were talking about. I wanna see if I can reproduce the issue, or officially diagnose it as the lut. I've tried like 5 LUTS so far, and even Leica Monochrome, and I haven't seen any banding in anything else.

Lettermanian said:

These are some great shots; I admire good "street" shooting, even though it is not my preferred genre or comfort zone. The LUT you're using suits it well. If the S9 had a remote release socket I would have been very interested in it as a compact, lightweight camera for astrophotography, where an EVF is not necessary (but a cable release often is).

I am noticing green and magenta colour "splotches"/banding in some of your images here, the same issue I am seeing on some ooc jpegs from my S5 (I have a thread in the forum on this subject). From this and other sources online it seems this jpeg issue is evident in the newer cameras as well. Hopefully Panasonic can address this, especially since they are now marketing ooc jpeg-centric photography.

Click to expand...

No, no splotches on my computer(s). And, none on your previous posts on the topic showed up on my computer(s) either, no matter how hard I looked for them.

Have you tried a different monitor? And maybe a different computer? And have you used a color calibrator on your monitor?

Honestly, I tried really hard to see what you are seeing, and I can't, so I think you may need to do some detective work to figure out where the problem actually is. And I don't see splotching in my own S5 JPGs either...

-J

TOPSHELFJUNIOR said:

I just went back and looked, to try and find what "banding" you were speaking of... And honestly I couldn't see anything. But for example, if you were talking about the image of the California Flag... It would appear to be "banding" maybe but, the LUT used takes browns, and kind of punches them up, into a saturated burnt orange or so.. Or it takes red / pink blotches of skin, and richens them up, into a deeper red / burnt orange. I notice it also takes greens and makes them pop more also. Any "banding" that you might be seeing, I wouldn't say that's banding. I would say originally those were browns or pinks, and the LUT punches them up into saturated oranges and reds. But let me know what images you were talking about. I wanna see if I can reproduce the issue, or officially diagnose it as the lut. I've tried like 5 LUTS so far, and even Leica Monochrome, and I haven't seen any banding in anything else.

Click to expand...

I haven't been able to see them in any of the images here or in the previous thread the poster put up about it either. I am wondering if it's a problem in his computer set up?

-J

jalywol said:

Lettermanian said:

These are some great shots; I admire good "street" shooting, even though it is not my preferred genre or comfort zone. The LUT you're using suits it well. If the S9 had a remote release socket I would have been very interested in it as a compact, lightweight camera for astrophotography, where an EVF is not necessary (but a cable release often is).

I am noticing green and magenta colour "splotches"/banding in some of your images here, the same issue I am seeing on some ooc jpegs from my S5 (I have a thread in the forum on this subject). From this and other sources online it seems this jpeg issue is evident in the newer cameras as well. Hopefully Panasonic can address this, especially since they are now marketing ooc jpeg-centric photography.

Click to expand...

No, no splotches on my computer(s). And, none on your previous posts on the topic showed up on my computer(s) either, no matter how hard I looked for them.

Have you tried a different monitor? And maybe a different computer? And have you used a color calibrator on your monitor?

Honestly, I tried really hard to see what you are seeing, and I can't, so I think you may need to do some detective work to figure out where the problem actually is. And I don't see splotching in my own S5 JPGs either...

-J

Click to expand...

Thanks jalywol for the feedback; I'm using an M2 Mac Mini with this Lenovo QHD monitor , and it does not show the same artifacts when I view RAW files or jpegs converted from RAW after editing, nor did it show this type of artifacting when I was shooting ooc jpegs with my former Fuji gear. I don't want to hijack the OP's post, so I won't pursue this much further here, but here are some screenshots of the issue as I'm seeing them out of the S9 (might be easier to see with the loupe):


Screenshot from a LUMIX S9 video on the LUMIX USA YT channel. Green and magenta splotches in the white van.


From the OP's video: blotches all through the beige walls with the numbers.


From the op's video: horizontal green and magenta bands in the sky (slightly adjusted shadows so it can be seen a bit better, but I still see it in the original).


From Emily Lowery's S9 video: huge blotches in the wall behind her.


Also from E. Lowery's video: green and magenta artifacts all over the camera grip, screen, etc.


From Panasonic's S9 release video: green and magenta on the orange wall.


My own ooc jpeg from the S5: green and magenta throughout the pond water.


Screenshot of the RAW file for the previous image. No green and magenta patterns.

Again, when I view, edit and export RAW files to jpeg, there is no such artifacting. When I lift shadows in the underexposed or more featureless areas of the image, they are nice and clean. The only time these artifacts are happening are with some ooc jpegs. The OP has some images where I can't see any of the artifacting, which is also the experience I have with many of my jpegs. So I shrug my shoulders and continue to shoot RAW+FIne :-|

-- The grass isn't always greener, unless you shoot Velvia.

Lettermanian said:

jalywol said:

Lettermanian said:

These are some great shots; I admire good "street" shooting, even though it is not my preferred genre or comfort zone. The LUT you're using suits it well. If the S9 had a remote release socket I would have been very interested in it as a compact, lightweight camera for astrophotography, where an EVF is not necessary (but a cable release often is).

I am noticing green and magenta colour "splotches"/banding in some of your images here, the same issue I am seeing on some ooc jpegs from my S5 (I have a thread in the forum on this subject). From this and other sources online it seems this jpeg issue is evident in the newer cameras as well. Hopefully Panasonic can address this, especially since they are now marketing ooc jpeg-centric photography.

Click to expand...

No, no splotches on my computer(s). And, none on your previous posts on the topic showed up on my computer(s) either, no matter how hard I looked for them.

Have you tried a different monitor? And maybe a different computer? And have you used a color calibrator on your monitor?

Honestly, I tried really hard to see what you are seeing, and I can't, so I think you may need to do some detective work to figure out where the problem actually is. And I don't see splotching in my own S5 JPGs either...

-J

Click to expand...

Thanks jalywol for the feedback; I'm using an M2 Mac Mini with this Lenovo QHD monitor , and it does not show the same artifacts when I view RAW files or jpegs converted from RAW after editing, nor did it show this type of artifacting when I was shooting ooc jpegs with my former Fuji gear. I don't want to hijack the OP's post, so I won't pursue this much further here, but here are some screenshots of the issue as I'm seeing them out of the S9 (might be easier to see with the loupe):


Screenshot from a LUMIX S9 video on the LUMIX USA YT channel. Green and magenta splotches in the white van.


From the OP's video: blotches all through the beige walls with the numbers.


From the op's video: horizontal green and magenta bands in the sky (slightly adjusted shadows so it can be seen a bit better, but I still see it in the original).


From Emily Lowery's S9 video: huge blotches in the wall behind her.


Also from E. Lowery's video: green and magenta artifacts all over the camera grip, screen, etc.


From Panasonic's S9 release video: green and magenta on the orange wall.


My own ooc jpeg from the S5: green and magenta throughout the pond water.


Screenshot of the RAW file for the previous image. No green and magenta patterns.

Again, when I view, edit and export RAW files to jpeg, there is no such artifacting. When I lift shadows in the underexposed or more featureless areas of the image, they are nice and clean. The only time these artifacts are happening are with some ooc jpegs. The OP has some images where I can't see any of the artifacting, which is also the experience I have with many of my jpegs. So I shrug my shoulders and continue to shoot RAW+FIne :-|

Click to expand...

Honestly, give this a try on a different computer. Not a Mac.

I do not see what you are seeing. The Lowery video capture of the wall? Not a single, solitary, blotch. Nor the pond, nor the orange wall.

Please, give this a try on a different computer. There is something going on with the image processing in your system that's doing really odd stuff.

-J

I guess someone has to be the skeptic around here.

I've used my share of cameras with no viewfinder—wearing a black shirt to try and reduce reflections, squinting through the glare, moving my eyes back-and-forth between the screen and the scene, trying to match up vague silhouettes with real-world objects.

If that's "no problem" for you, then okay. For myself, though, I have no desire to revisit that experience. I can grab my ten year old DSLR that's about the same size as the S9 but with a bright-and-beautiful pentaprism viewfinder.

TOPSHELFJR said:

It's just a fun experience…

Click to expand...

I think most of us here enjoy photography and have a "fun experience" when we go out and shoot. But when applied to a specific camera, it kinds of comes across like you couldn't think of anything more specific or more tangible to offer in praise for it.

tonybelding said:

I guess someone has to be the skeptic around here.

I've used my share of cameras with no viewfinder—wearing a black shirt to try and reduce reflections, squinting through the glare, moving my eyes back-and-forth between the screen and the scene, trying to match up vague silhouettes with real-world objects.

If that's "no problem" for you, then okay. For myself, though, I have no desire to revisit that experience. I can grab my ten year old DSLR that's about the same size as the S9 but with a bright-and-beautiful pentaprism viewfinder.

tonybelding said:

It's just a fun experience…

Click to expand...

I think most of us here enjoy photography and have a "fun experience" when we go out and shoot. But when applied to a specific camera, it kinds of comes across like you couldn't think of anything more specific or more tangible to offer in praise for it.

Click to expand...

That's all fine.

But what you have not done is try any of the S5 or S9 LCD's at +2 backlight to say anything about what the experience is of the cameras in question - not your 10-year old DSLR or maybe some other newer camera with an inferior LCD or perhaps the wrong setting (I only discovered the sunshine mode on Sony camera LCD's recently, and up to the time I was squinting too, having exactly the same experience as you - but no more).

I do not have magic eyes, and I have no problem in the brightest sun using the LCD (at +2) to frame at every camera angle what I want and check focus too, using strictly manual focus lenses. I have posted videos in this forum shot in the brightest sun with a camera (S9) that has no EVF and with lenses that have no AF, so I am not just making claims without evidence.

Just wanna put this out there, I own and love the S5ii.. I own and love the X-Pro 1.. I own and love the X-T5.. I own and love the Canon 5D Original.. I own and love the M4-P.. I shoot photos thru the viewfinder on all of those, and love doing so. My title on this tread post, as well as the YT video, is basically poking fun at an opinionated issue, a viewfinder or lack of one, but really poke fun at how such a small issue turned into a MOUNTAIN of hate or bad press or bad reviews, whatever you wanna call it..for a camera. The Sigma FP didn't get this much hate for not having a viewfinder...and I think its directly related to all the things that the S9 DOES offer to people, that many cameras do not.

I also wanna state ,that I have never had a problem seeing the back of a Panasonic LCD screen, ever. Not the GH4 - GH5 - nor the GH6, nor the S5 nor the S9...I don't know if it's my settings, or my eyes...but I have never had a problem composing, focusing, seeing a scene or seeing an image, on a Panasonic screen.

To your other point, one of the things that has been a great factor in all my fun, is access to the Lumix Lab App, and that's what I really have leaned on so far while using the camera. Not only is it a game-changer, but it has been a work-flow changer. The process - speed - fluidity of using the app, makes the camera super fun to shoot with, and none of my other cameras have it. Being able to wake up, look thru the app, pick what LUT I wanna use for the day, send it to my phone in 10 seconds, tweak it if I want, stack it on top of another lut if I want, use a different lut if I want, is fun.. The excitement of not knowing how the lut is gonna respond to a certain scene, is fun. Then not having to sit down at the computer and adjust or edit anything, is fun...sending videos and photos to the fun to upload, quickly at quality, is fun...and photography all of a sudden feels like an experiment, or solving an equation again. Remember buying your first roll of a certain film, and being excited about it, anxious about not knowing how it was going to turn out ?! Yeah. That's what the Lab has been providing. Only thing is, I can adjust on the go.

The other things that make the S9 fun are no-brainers, and also things that my other cameras just don't have. I can go on and on about what they are but, if you're in here...odds are you already know what they are. You don't like the S9 ? No prob. Great thing is, Panasonic makes the S5ii/X just for you.

I don't know man.. It's been super fun using the S9...sorry if you can't understand that.

I had no problem using any rear screens, even the early, small, and fairly dim ones....until I was about 45.

After that, it became far less enjoyable, and EVFs a necessity.

So, please cut those of us with less-than-perfect eyesight some slack. You, too, will have the curse of presbyopia appear as the years go by. And, once you can no longer focus on the screen, no matter how far away your arms can hold the camera, unless you are wearing glasses, you may appreciate the uproar over this little omission on what is otherwise a really lovely camera.

-J

jalywol said:

Lettermanian said:

jalywol said:

Lettermanian said:

These are some great shots; I admire good "street" shooting, even though it is not my preferred genre or comfort zone. The LUT you're using suits it well. If the S9 had a remote release socket I would have been very interested in it as a compact, lightweight camera for astrophotography, where an EVF is not necessary (but a cable release often is).

I am noticing green and magenta colour "splotches"/banding in some of your images here, the same issue I am seeing on some ooc jpegs from my S5 (I have a thread in the forum on this subject). From this and other sources online it seems this jpeg issue is evident in the newer cameras as well. Hopefully Panasonic can address this, especially since they are now marketing ooc jpeg-centric photography.

Click to expand...

No, no splotches on my computer(s). And, none on your previous posts on the topic showed up on my computer(s) either, no matter how hard I looked for them.

Have you tried a different monitor? And maybe a different computer? And have you used a color calibrator on your monitor?

Honestly, I tried really hard to see what you are seeing, and I can't, so I think you may need to do some detective work to figure out where the problem actually is. And I don't see splotching in my own S5 JPGs either...

-J

Click to expand...

Thanks jalywol for the feedback; I'm using an M2 Mac Mini with this Lenovo QHD monitor , and it does not show the same artifacts when I view RAW files or jpegs converted from RAW after editing, nor did it show this type of artifacting when I was shooting ooc jpegs with my former Fuji gear. I don't want to hijack the OP's post, so I won't pursue this much further here, but here are some screenshots of the issue as I'm seeing them out of the S9 (might be easier to see with the loupe):


Screenshot from a LUMIX S9 video on the LUMIX USA YT channel. Green and magenta splotches in the white van.


From the OP's video: blotches all through the beige walls with the numbers.


From the op's video: horizontal green and magenta bands in the sky (slightly adjusted shadows so it can be seen a bit better, but I still see it in the original).


From Emily Lowery's S9 video: huge blotches in the wall behind her.


Also from E. Lowery's video: green and magenta artifacts all over the camera grip, screen, etc.


From Panasonic's S9 release video: green and magenta on the orange wall.


My own ooc jpeg from the S5: green and magenta throughout the pond water.


Screenshot of the RAW file for the previous image. No green and magenta patterns.

Again, when I view, edit and export RAW files to jpeg, there is no such artifacting. When I lift shadows in the underexposed or more featureless areas of the image, they are nice and clean. The only time these artifacts are happening are with some ooc jpegs. The OP has some images where I can't see any of the artifacting, which is also the experience I have with many of my jpegs. So I shrug my shoulders and continue to shoot RAW+FIne :-|

Click to expand...

Honestly, give this a try on a different computer. Not a Mac.

I do not see what you are seeing. The Lowery video capture of the wall? Not a single, solitary, blotch. Nor the pond, nor the orange wall.

Please, give this a try on a different computer. There is something going on with the image processing in your system that's doing really odd stuff.

-J

Click to expand...

In fairness to the OP of this thread I won't discuss this issue further here; I have added it to my own thread on the matter and would welcome continued discussion there:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67823272





--
The grass isn't always greener, unless you shoot Velvia.