New OLYMPUS branded camera

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

I'm more of a Panasonic supporter given the only Olympus product I have is the 12-50mm that I bought for the power zoom function, and all my other M43 gear is Panasonic.

I just found it funny that pretty much every one of your "theories" you throw out point toward OMDS crashing and burning and are pretty much negative, even though there are other theories that are a lot more neutral and also still make sense. That you add "maybe" to it doesn't change the negative bias of the theories.

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I'm not trying to be neutral I'm inviting further/counter speculation and argumentation. Your opinion is welcome.

JakeJY said:

For example, it's much more probable

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Why is it much more probable?

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Because that's how the industry does things for niche cameras, including Canon?

JakeJY said:

JakeJY said:

it is just not worthwhile to make a new mold for a niche camera like this,

Click to expand...

If OMDS can't be bothered to make a new top plate with their current new brand name on it because it's "not worthwhile", why is it even worthwhile bothering with this project? Is it just a cheap route to a quick earner?

Click to expand...

As linked above they did the same thing with Japan-only IR conversion cameras back in 2023. It's just an inexpensive way to offer a new variant for minimal cost. Again, Canon did the same thing with their astro camera.

I'll again point out you seem to have an irrational obsession with the brand name plate that Olympus/OMDS doesn't share.

Olympus still sells the OM-1 (which is a much higher volume seller) with the Olympus plate on their website. Why would if matter if a niche Japan-only camera does the same thing?

https://explore.omsystem.com/us/en/om-1

JakeJY said:

Just because a camera can be considered a niche product, does it mean OMDS shouldn't treat it as an important product that's trying to capture a new customer base? Should niche products not get the same level of attention to detail?

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They don't, Canon didn't either for their equivalent product, and they have much deeper pockets and volume to pay for any extra R&D.

JakeJY said:

Is the public perception of their brand, OM System, and a potential new customer base unimportant?

Click to expand...

It's not important enough to make a new mold for a niche camera that will probably sell in extremely low volumes, especially given they are still selling the OM-1 also with the Olympus plate.

JakeJY said:

Remember that all three updated cameras released after their rebranding announcement in 2022 are branded OM System not Olympus. So halfway into 2024 it seems odd that they would go back to using the old brand name on a newly released product, even if it is an adaptation of a previous model.

Click to expand...

Again they are still selling the OM-1 today with the Olympus branding. It's far less important than you are making it out to be.

JakeJY said:

I think it is worthwhile proudly sporting the current new brand name on this camera. I believe the small details do count and can contribute to people's perception of a company.

Like I suggested in my OP, it could be just an internal error with the product image, but if it's not then I'm unimpressed.

Click to expand...

Maybe it matters a lot to you, but apparently not to the Astro market given there have been other cameras sold also with such minimal changes.

JakeJY said:

JakeJY said:

than it saying anything significant about the viability of the company. As I pointed out in an earlier post, even Canon,

Click to expand...

Canon cameras are branded Canon!

Click to expand...

That's a red herring. The important point is they didn't bother to make any significant change to the camera.

JakeJY said:

JakeJY said:

which sells multiple times more volume and is doing financially well, just slapped a sticker on their astro camera and called it a day!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

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Thanks for your opinion. What I seem to be hearing is a bunch of excuses rather than any explanation of how OMDS have demonstrated their commitment to the brand. You may not want to acknowledge that the cameras still being sold with the Olympus brand name were produced before their rebranding announcement, but they were. More than halfway through 2024 and OMDS releases an adaptation of a previous camera baring the old Olympus brand name because apparently it's just "not worthwhile" putting the current OM System brand name on it. In contrast, when Minolta announced they were transferring their camera assets to Sony it was only six months later that we saw the first Sony branded DSLR.

What you're failing to acknowledge is that this is about the broader picture not simply about this current Astro camera release. What this Astro camera release demonstrates is OMDS backtracking on their rebranding announcement in 2022 for the sake of what appears to be a cheap route to a quick earner. I would have thought promoting the OM System brand by putting the name on this camera would be important, but apparently it's just "not worthwhile" despite pricing it at the equivalent of $2k. I think this fails to demonstrate any genuine commitment to the brand by OMDS, outside of a cheap route to a quick buck.

I agree with forum member Regor250 that OMDS actions lead to an erosion of confidence in what their intent might be beyond 5-8yrs.

Click to expand...

As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

Click to expand...

ahaslett said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

I'm more of a Panasonic supporter given the only Olympus product I have is the 12-50mm that I bought for the power zoom function, and all my other M43 gear is Panasonic.

I just found it funny that pretty much every one of your "theories" you throw out point toward OMDS crashing and burning and are pretty much negative, even though there are other theories that are a lot more neutral and also still make sense. That you add "maybe" to it doesn't change the negative bias of the theories.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be neutral I'm inviting further/counter speculation and argumentation. Your opinion is welcome.

ahaslett said:

For example, it's much more probable

Click to expand...

Why is it much more probable?

Click to expand...

Because that's how the industry does things for niche cameras, including Canon?

ahaslett said:

ahaslett said:

it is just not worthwhile to make a new mold for a niche camera like this,

Click to expand...

If OMDS can't be bothered to make a new top plate with their current new brand name on it because it's "not worthwhile", why is it even worthwhile bothering with this project? Is it just a cheap route to a quick earner?

Click to expand...

As linked above they did the same thing with Japan-only IR conversion cameras back in 2023. It's just an inexpensive way to offer a new variant for minimal cost. Again, Canon did the same thing with their astro camera.

I'll again point out you seem to have an irrational obsession with the brand name plate that Olympus/OMDS doesn't share.

Olympus still sells the OM-1 (which is a much higher volume seller) with the Olympus plate on their website. Why would if matter if a niche Japan-only camera does the same thing?

https://explore.omsystem.com/us/en/om-1

ahaslett said:

Just because a camera can be considered a niche product, does it mean OMDS shouldn't treat it as an important product that's trying to capture a new customer base? Should niche products not get the same level of attention to detail?

Click to expand...

They don't, Canon didn't either for their equivalent product, and they have much deeper pockets and volume to pay for any extra R&D.

ahaslett said:

Is the public perception of their brand, OM System, and a potential new customer base unimportant?

Click to expand...

It's not important enough to make a new mold for a niche camera that will probably sell in extremely low volumes, especially given they are still selling the OM-1 also with the Olympus plate.

ahaslett said:

Remember that all three updated cameras released after their rebranding announcement in 2022 are branded OM System not Olympus. So halfway into 2024 it seems odd that they would go back to using the old brand name on a newly released product, even if it is an adaptation of a previous model.

Click to expand...

Again they are still selling the OM-1 today with the Olympus branding. It's far less important than you are making it out to be.

ahaslett said:

I think it is worthwhile proudly sporting the current new brand name on this camera. I believe the small details do count and can contribute to people's perception of a company.

Like I suggested in my OP, it could be just an internal error with the product image, but if it's not then I'm unimpressed.

Click to expand...

Maybe it matters a lot to you, but apparently not to the Astro market given there have been other cameras sold also with such minimal changes.

ahaslett said:

ahaslett said:

than it saying anything significant about the viability of the company. As I pointed out in an earlier post, even Canon,

Click to expand...

Canon cameras are branded Canon!

Click to expand...

That's a red herring. The important point is they didn't bother to make any significant change to the camera.

ahaslett said:

ahaslett said:

which sells multiple times more volume and is doing financially well, just slapped a sticker on their astro camera and called it a day!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinion. What I seem to be hearing is a bunch of excuses rather than any explanation of how OMDS have demonstrated their commitment to the brand. You may not want to acknowledge that the cameras still being sold with the Olympus brand name were produced before their rebranding announcement, but they were. More than halfway through 2024 and OMDS releases an adaptation of a previous camera baring the old Olympus brand name because apparently it's just "not worthwhile" putting the current OM System brand name on it. In contrast, when Minolta announced they were transferring their camera assets to Sony it was only six months later that we saw the first Sony branded DSLR.

What you're failing to acknowledge is that this is about the broader picture not simply about this current Astro camera release. What this Astro camera release demonstrates is OMDS backtracking on their rebranding announcement in 2022 for the sake of what appears to be a cheap route to a quick earner. I would have thought promoting the OM System brand by putting the name on this camera would be important, but apparently it's just "not worthwhile" despite pricing it at the equivalent of $2k. I think this fails to demonstrate any genuine commitment to the brand by OMDS, outside of a cheap route to a quick buck.

I agree with forum member Regor250 that OMDS actions lead to an erosion of confidence in what their intent might be beyond 5-8yrs.

Click to expand...

As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

Click to expand...

You can buy an OM1 mk i or EP7 from the OMDS website here in the UK. Both say Olympus. They must be clearing out a couple of hundred excess spare parts for future EM1.3 repairs and decided to build them into a slightly higher margin camera for the Japanese market only with an Astro sticker on.

If they were that bothered about selling bodies with Olympus on, they would have thrown out all the OM1 mk i bodies and EP7 bodies and bought in new ones branded OM Systems. That would cost money, and generating cash is what JIP is about.

Maybe they are clearing out everything before they ride off into the sunset, and don't need to worry about spares stock at all. Unlikely but possible.

A

Click to expand...

Sothoth said:

ahaslett said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

I'm more of a Panasonic supporter given the only Olympus product I have is the 12-50mm that I bought for the power zoom function, and all my other M43 gear is Panasonic.

I just found it funny that pretty much every one of your "theories" you throw out point toward OMDS crashing and burning and are pretty much negative, even though there are other theories that are a lot more neutral and also still make sense. That you add "maybe" to it doesn't change the negative bias of the theories.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be neutral I'm inviting further/counter speculation and argumentation. Your opinion is welcome.

Sothoth said:

For example, it's much more probable

Click to expand...

Why is it much more probable?

Click to expand...

Because that's how the industry does things for niche cameras, including Canon?

Sothoth said:

Sothoth said:

it is just not worthwhile to make a new mold for a niche camera like this,

Click to expand...

If OMDS can't be bothered to make a new top plate with their current new brand name on it because it's "not worthwhile", why is it even worthwhile bothering with this project? Is it just a cheap route to a quick earner?

Click to expand...

As linked above they did the same thing with Japan-only IR conversion cameras back in 2023. It's just an inexpensive way to offer a new variant for minimal cost. Again, Canon did the same thing with their astro camera.

I'll again point out you seem to have an irrational obsession with the brand name plate that Olympus/OMDS doesn't share.

Olympus still sells the OM-1 (which is a much higher volume seller) with the Olympus plate on their website. Why would if matter if a niche Japan-only camera does the same thing?

https://explore.omsystem.com/us/en/om-1

Sothoth said:

Just because a camera can be considered a niche product, does it mean OMDS shouldn't treat it as an important product that's trying to capture a new customer base? Should niche products not get the same level of attention to detail?

Click to expand...

They don't, Canon didn't either for their equivalent product, and they have much deeper pockets and volume to pay for any extra R&D.

Sothoth said:

Is the public perception of their brand, OM System, and a potential new customer base unimportant?

Click to expand...

It's not important enough to make a new mold for a niche camera that will probably sell in extremely low volumes, especially given they are still selling the OM-1 also with the Olympus plate.

Sothoth said:

Remember that all three updated cameras released after their rebranding announcement in 2022 are branded OM System not Olympus. So halfway into 2024 it seems odd that they would go back to using the old brand name on a newly released product, even if it is an adaptation of a previous model.

Click to expand...

Again they are still selling the OM-1 today with the Olympus branding. It's far less important than you are making it out to be.

Sothoth said:

I think it is worthwhile proudly sporting the current new brand name on this camera. I believe the small details do count and can contribute to people's perception of a company.

Like I suggested in my OP, it could be just an internal error with the product image, but if it's not then I'm unimpressed.

Click to expand...

Maybe it matters a lot to you, but apparently not to the Astro market given there have been other cameras sold also with such minimal changes.

Sothoth said:

Sothoth said:

than it saying anything significant about the viability of the company. As I pointed out in an earlier post, even Canon,

Click to expand...

Canon cameras are branded Canon!

Click to expand...

That's a red herring. The important point is they didn't bother to make any significant change to the camera.

Sothoth said:

Sothoth said:

which sells multiple times more volume and is doing financially well, just slapped a sticker on their astro camera and called it a day!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinion. What I seem to be hearing is a bunch of excuses rather than any explanation of how OMDS have demonstrated their commitment to the brand. You may not want to acknowledge that the cameras still being sold with the Olympus brand name were produced before their rebranding announcement, but they were. More than halfway through 2024 and OMDS releases an adaptation of a previous camera baring the old Olympus brand name because apparently it's just "not worthwhile" putting the current OM System brand name on it. In contrast, when Minolta announced they were transferring their camera assets to Sony it was only six months later that we saw the first Sony branded DSLR.

What you're failing to acknowledge is that this is about the broader picture not simply about this current Astro camera release. What this Astro camera release demonstrates is OMDS backtracking on their rebranding announcement in 2022 for the sake of what appears to be a cheap route to a quick earner. I would have thought promoting the OM System brand by putting the name on this camera would be important, but apparently it's just "not worthwhile" despite pricing it at the equivalent of $2k. I think this fails to demonstrate any genuine commitment to the brand by OMDS, outside of a cheap route to a quick buck.

I agree with forum member Regor250 that OMDS actions lead to an erosion of confidence in what their intent might be beyond 5-8yrs.

Click to expand...

As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

Click to expand...

You can buy an OM1 mk i or EP7 from the OMDS website here in the UK. Both say Olympus. They must be clearing out a couple of hundred excess spare parts for future EM1.3 repairs and decided to build them into a slightly higher margin camera for the Japanese market only with an Astro sticker on.

If they were that bothered about selling bodies with Olympus on, they would have thrown out all the OM1 mk i bodies and EP7 bodies and bought in new ones branded OM Systems. That would cost money, and generating cash is what JIP is about.

Maybe they are clearing out everything before they ride off into the sunset, and don't need to worry about spares stock at all. Unlikely but possible.

A

Click to expand...

It’s not really OMDS’s fault that one of the benefits of m43 (smaller sensor = lower camera price) isn’t much of an advantage anymore. It means a company that does m43 and only m43 is going to struggle. These specialty cameras like the Astro are kind of cool but are also a bit of a reach and kind of a joke. I’d rather see them focus less on the flagship models and more on the OM-5 and make a PenF II. The complaints about branding are sort of silly. Why do you even care?

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Cafe Racer said:

If OMDS decided they have to make this specialist camera so cost effective that they can't even make a top plate with their current brand name, then I have to wonder if they're experiencing serious financial problems. OMDS announced in 2022 that they would no longer use the Olympus name on their products and they've actually re-branded some of their lenses. Why wouldn't they also re-brand this camera?

Click to expand...

cameron2 said:

Cafe Racer said:

If OMDS decided they have to make this specialist camera so cost effective that they can't even make a top plate with their current brand name, then I have to wonder if they're experiencing serious financial problems. OMDS announced in 2022 that they would no longer use the Olympus name on their products and they've actually re-branded some of their lenses. Why wouldn't they also re-brand this camera?

Click to expand...

The name is part of the plastic mold. A new mold with a minor change can run between $2-3 million. So whether they have spare parts lying around, or just the mold itself, why would they waste a few million bucks to change the name on the camera?

Click to expand...

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

I'm more of a Panasonic supporter given the only Olympus product I have is the 12-50mm that I bought for the power zoom function, and all my other M43 gear is Panasonic.

I just found it funny that pretty much every one of your "theories" you throw out point toward OMDS crashing and burning and are pretty much negative, even though there are other theories that are a lot more neutral and also still make sense. That you add "maybe" to it doesn't change the negative bias of the theories.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be neutral I'm inviting further/counter speculation and argumentation. Your opinion is welcome.

JakeJY said:

For example, it's much more probable

Click to expand...

Why is it much more probable?

Click to expand...

Because that's how the industry does things for niche cameras, including Canon?

JakeJY said:

JakeJY said:

it is just not worthwhile to make a new mold for a niche camera like this,

Click to expand...

If OMDS can't be bothered to make a new top plate with their current new brand name on it because it's "not worthwhile", why is it even worthwhile bothering with this project? Is it just a cheap route to a quick earner?

Click to expand...

As linked above they did the same thing with Japan-only IR conversion cameras back in 2023. It's just an inexpensive way to offer a new variant for minimal cost. Again, Canon did the same thing with their astro camera.

I'll again point out you seem to have an irrational obsession with the brand name plate that Olympus/OMDS doesn't share.

Olympus still sells the OM-1 (which is a much higher volume seller) with the Olympus plate on their website. Why would if matter if a niche Japan-only camera does the same thing?

https://explore.omsystem.com/us/en/om-1

JakeJY said:

Just because a camera can be considered a niche product, does it mean OMDS shouldn't treat it as an important product that's trying to capture a new customer base? Should niche products not get the same level of attention to detail?

Click to expand...

They don't, Canon didn't either for their equivalent product, and they have much deeper pockets and volume to pay for any extra R&D.

JakeJY said:

Is the public perception of their brand, OM System, and a potential new customer base unimportant?

Click to expand...

It's not important enough to make a new mold for a niche camera that will probably sell in extremely low volumes, especially given they are still selling the OM-1 also with the Olympus plate.

JakeJY said:

Remember that all three updated cameras released after their rebranding announcement in 2022 are branded OM System not Olympus. So halfway into 2024 it seems odd that they would go back to using the old brand name on a newly released product, even if it is an adaptation of a previous model.

Click to expand...

Again they are still selling the OM-1 today with the Olympus branding. It's far less important than you are making it out to be.

JakeJY said:

I think it is worthwhile proudly sporting the current new brand name on this camera. I believe the small details do count and can contribute to people's perception of a company.

Like I suggested in my OP, it could be just an internal error with the product image, but if it's not then I'm unimpressed.

Click to expand...

Maybe it matters a lot to you, but apparently not to the Astro market given there have been other cameras sold also with such minimal changes.

JakeJY said:

JakeJY said:

than it saying anything significant about the viability of the company. As I pointed out in an earlier post, even Canon,

Click to expand...

Canon cameras are branded Canon!

Click to expand...

That's a red herring. The important point is they didn't bother to make any significant change to the camera.

JakeJY said:

JakeJY said:

which sells multiple times more volume and is doing financially well, just slapped a sticker on their astro camera and called it a day!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thanks for your opinion. What I seem to be hearing is a bunch of excuses rather than any explanation of how OMDS have demonstrated their commitment to the brand. You may not want to acknowledge that the cameras still being sold with the Olympus brand name were produced before their rebranding announcement, but they were. More than halfway through 2024 and OMDS releases an adaptation of a previous camera baring the old Olympus brand name because apparently it's just "not worthwhile" putting the current OM System brand name on it. In contrast, when Minolta announced they were transferring their camera assets to Sony it was only six months later that we saw the first Sony branded DSLR.

What you're failing to acknowledge is that this is about the broader picture not simply about this current Astro camera release. What this Astro camera release demonstrates is OMDS backtracking on their rebranding announcement in 2022 for the sake of what appears to be a cheap route to a quick earner. I would have thought promoting the OM System brand by putting the name on this camera would be important, but apparently it's just "not worthwhile" despite pricing it at the equivalent of $2k. I think this fails to demonstrate any genuine commitment to the brand by OMDS, outside of a cheap route to a quick buck.

I agree with forum member Regor250 that OMDS actions lead to an erosion of confidence in what their intent might be beyond 5-8yrs.

Click to expand...

As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

Click to expand...

Box Brownie said:

cameron2 said:

Cafe Racer said:

If OMDS decided they have to make this specialist camera so cost effective that they can't even make a top plate with their current brand name, then I have to wonder if they're experiencing serious financial problems. OMDS announced in 2022 that they would no longer use the Olympus name on their products and they've actually re-branded some of their lenses. Why wouldn't they also re-brand this camera?

Click to expand...

The name is part of the plastic mold. A new mold with a minor change can run between $2-3 million. So whether they have spare parts lying around, or just the mold itself, why would they waste a few million bucks to change the name on the camera?

Click to expand...

I don't believe the moulding is plastic but part of the mag alloy casting with the name shaped into the body as was illustrated in this picture of a/the Olympus body

So yes to make a change of name would require a complete new body casting and that could indeed run well into 6-7 figures???

Click to expand...

cba_melbourne said:

Box Brownie said:

cameron2 said:

Cafe Racer said:

If OMDS decided they have to make this specialist camera so cost effective that they can't even make a top plate with their current brand name, then I have to wonder if they're experiencing serious financial problems. OMDS announced in 2022 that they would no longer use the Olympus name on their products and they've actually re-branded some of their lenses. Why wouldn't they also re-brand this camera?

Click to expand...

The name is part of the plastic mold. A new mold with a minor change can run between $2-3 million. So whether they have spare parts lying around, or just the mold itself, why would they waste a few million bucks to change the name on the camera?

Click to expand...

I don't believe the moulding is plastic but part of the mag alloy casting with the name shaped into the body as was illustrated in this picture of a/the Olympus body

So yes to make a change of name would require a complete new body casting and that could indeed run well into 6-7 figures???

Click to expand...

The lettering is depressed into the camera casting. Hence on the mold it is the reverse, the lettering is raised. Easy to mill off from the mold and polish for a couple k$. Then you have a flat surface on the faux pentaprism with no writing. The OM-D is still there, should be enough for branding, no?

Click to expand...

cba_melbourne said:

Anyway, they likely do not need to make new castings. They certainly still have spare castings enough for the small astro run. You always overprovision when ordering such castings. A few may be faulty and you only notice when grinding imperfections off. A few may get damaged when drilling/tapping the holes. A few may get dropped and break. A few may get mispainted. If you need 10,000 castings, you order a few hundred more... So why not use them. They have likely permission until the end of this year to keep using the old name.

Click to expand...

Box Brownie said:

cba_melbourne said:

Box Brownie said:

cameron2 said:

Cafe Racer said:

If OMDS decided they have to make this specialist camera so cost effective that they can't even make a top plate with their current brand name, then I have to wonder if they're experiencing serious financial problems. OMDS announced in 2022 that they would no longer use the Olympus name on their products and they've actually re-branded some of their lenses. Why wouldn't they also re-brand this camera?

Click to expand...

The name is part of the plastic mold. A new mold with a minor change can run between $2-3 million. So whether they have spare parts lying around, or just the mold itself, why would they waste a few million bucks to change the name on the camera?

Click to expand...

I don't believe the moulding is plastic but part of the mag alloy casting with the name shaped into the body as was illustrated in this picture of a/the Olympus body

So yes to make a change of name would require a complete new body casting and that could indeed run well into 6-7 figures???

Click to expand...

The lettering is depressed into the camera casting. Hence on the mold it is the reverse, the lettering is raised. Easy to mill off from the mold and polish for a couple k$. Then you have a flat surface on the faux pentaprism with no writing. The OM-D is still there, should be enough for branding, no?

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A fair point.....though I surmise the total cost of doing so will be influenced by "how many up" the tool is???

Box Brownie said:

Anyway, they likely do not need to make new castings. They certainly still have spare castings enough for the small astro run. You always overprovision when ordering such castings. A few may be faulty and you only notice when grinding imperfections off. A few may get damaged when drilling/tapping the holes. A few may get dropped and break. A few may get mispainted. If you need 10,000 castings, you order a few hundred more... So why not use them. They have likely permission until the end of this year to keep using the old name.

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Yes, overs are typical in many industries.

Whether to produce the niche and likely few(?) astro bodies was a re-engineering of completed mk3's or built fresh from the parts bin......only OM know the answer.

As I said in an earlier post, they did something similar for another niche market (cannot recall that was with E-M1 mk2 or mk3 ???)

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OM Digital goes infrared with IR versions of its E-M1X and E-M1 Mark III cameras

OM Digital goes infrared with IR versions of its E-M1X and E-M1 Mark III cameras

www.diyphotography.net

Officially announced in Japan: New “E-M1X_IR” and “E-M1 Mark III_IR” infrared cameras – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

Box Brownie said:

Ultimately if they all sell (IIRC the aforementioned ones IIRC were sold via a specialized 3rd party retailer?) then good for them for finding an outlet for redundant bin stocks.

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Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

I'm more of a Panasonic supporter given the only Olympus product I have is the 12-50mm that I bought for the power zoom function, and all my other M43 gear is Panasonic.

I just found it funny that pretty much every one of your "theories" you throw out point toward OMDS crashing and burning and are pretty much negative, even though there are other theories that are a lot more neutral and also still make sense. That you add "maybe" to it doesn't change the negative bias of the theories.

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I'm not trying to be neutral I'm inviting further/counter speculation and argumentation. Your opinion is welcome.

Cafe Racer said:

For example, it's much more probable

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Why is it much more probable?

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Because that's how the industry does things for niche cameras, including Canon?

Cafe Racer said:

Cafe Racer said:

it is just not worthwhile to make a new mold for a niche camera like this,

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If OMDS can't be bothered to make a new top plate with their current new brand name on it because it's "not worthwhile", why is it even worthwhile bothering with this project? Is it just a cheap route to a quick earner?

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As linked above they did the same thing with Japan-only IR conversion cameras back in 2023. It's just an inexpensive way to offer a new variant for minimal cost. Again, Canon did the same thing with their astro camera.

I'll again point out you seem to have an irrational obsession with the brand name plate that Olympus/OMDS doesn't share.

Olympus still sells the OM-1 (which is a much higher volume seller) with the Olympus plate on their website. Why would if matter if a niche Japan-only camera does the same thing?

https://explore.omsystem.com/us/en/om-1

Cafe Racer said:

Just because a camera can be considered a niche product, does it mean OMDS shouldn't treat it as an important product that's trying to capture a new customer base? Should niche products not get the same level of attention to detail?

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They don't, Canon didn't either for their equivalent product, and they have much deeper pockets and volume to pay for any extra R&D.

Cafe Racer said:

Is the public perception of their brand, OM System, and a potential new customer base unimportant?

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It's not important enough to make a new mold for a niche camera that will probably sell in extremely low volumes, especially given they are still selling the OM-1 also with the Olympus plate.

Cafe Racer said:

Remember that all three updated cameras released after their rebranding announcement in 2022 are branded OM System not Olympus. So halfway into 2024 it seems odd that they would go back to using the old brand name on a newly released product, even if it is an adaptation of a previous model.

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Again they are still selling the OM-1 today with the Olympus branding. It's far less important than you are making it out to be.

Cafe Racer said:

I think it is worthwhile proudly sporting the current new brand name on this camera. I believe the small details do count and can contribute to people's perception of a company.

Like I suggested in my OP, it could be just an internal error with the product image, but if it's not then I'm unimpressed.

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Maybe it matters a lot to you, but apparently not to the Astro market given there have been other cameras sold also with such minimal changes.

Cafe Racer said:

Cafe Racer said:

than it saying anything significant about the viability of the company. As I pointed out in an earlier post, even Canon,

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Canon cameras are branded Canon!

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That's a red herring. The important point is they didn't bother to make any significant change to the camera.

Cafe Racer said:

Cafe Racer said:

which sells multiple times more volume and is doing financially well, just slapped a sticker on their astro camera and called it a day!

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Thanks for your opinion. What I seem to be hearing is a bunch of excuses rather than any explanation of how OMDS have demonstrated their commitment to the brand. You may not want to acknowledge that the cameras still being sold with the Olympus brand name were produced before their rebranding announcement, but they were. More than halfway through 2024 and OMDS releases an adaptation of a previous camera baring the old Olympus brand name because apparently it's just "not worthwhile" putting the current OM System brand name on it. In contrast, when Minolta announced they were transferring their camera assets to Sony it was only six months later that we saw the first Sony branded DSLR.

What you're failing to acknowledge is that this is about the broader picture not simply about this current Astro camera release. What this Astro camera release demonstrates is OMDS backtracking on their rebranding announcement in 2022 for the sake of what appears to be a cheap route to a quick earner. I would have thought promoting the OM System brand by putting the name on this camera would be important, but apparently it's just "not worthwhile" despite pricing it at the equivalent of $2k. I think this fails to demonstrate any genuine commitment to the brand by OMDS, outside of a cheap route to a quick buck.

I agree with forum member Regor250 that OMDS actions lead to an erosion of confidence in what their intent might be beyond 5-8yrs.

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As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

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Ok, that's fine. I think OMDS are reluctant to invest money in producing a new camera of their own. They simply want to rehash/refresh what Olympus passed onto them or already developed because it's a cheaper route to make money. I have no good reason to believe they have any real long term plans.

As for this latest 'Olympus' camera release, it's pretty easy to get a camera modified for astrophotography. In fact someone can buy a used E-M1iii or even an E-M1x, have it modified and save themself a bag of money instead of buying the OMDS Olympus version. There's even DIY options available. What a pointless release. It's simply a cheap route to a quick buck. Why not direct the resources to something that existing customers may actually want. There's plenty of people that have expressed they would like a mid-range camera that has a compact form factor and a premium metal construction. It's not that OMDS don't know that a premium metal bodied mid-range camera is desirable, they just don't want to spend the money to produce it; plastic is cheaper. In fact, they even express how nice premium metal construction is on their website. Look at the screenshot from OMDS' website below! "Beauty of metal and leather". "The solid feel of premium metal construction". "sophisticated finishes". Then you click and you get the plastic bodied E-P7!! Talk about rubbing it in people's faces! You express that you find what I say funny, we'll have a good laugh now because this is certainly a joke!!

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Bassam Guy said:

Cafe Racer said:

Mw74 said:

As mentioned, clearly an Inventory-clearing exercise.

As an experienced astrophotographer, I'm not sure exactly who this will appeal to.

Hardcore imagers will use dedicated astro cameras, the slightly less serious, the more compatible Canon or Nikon astro bodies.

Previous manufacturer's astro bodies both came from Canon and Nikon (20Da, 60Da, EOS Ra and D810a), and these can operate with most astro software due to the open SDK.

Of most of the major brands, OM/Olympus has among the least 3rd party astro support, so automated imaging plans and plate solving are not possible. Believe me, as an Olympus shooter, I have tried...

If you want to go that route, an old 3rd party astro modified Rebel for a quarter of the price makes much more sense.

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That's interesting. The E-M1iii Astro camera doesn't sound like a very competitive product. Maybe it's a desperate attempt by OMDS to generate some extra revenue because business is down?

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I'm not particularly interested in astro but I found this: https://www.43rumors.com/just-announced-new-e-m1-mark-iii-astro-camera/

The comparison shows an improvement that might interest Mr. Narrow Band Channel.

Guessing why OMDS did this is, outside of the obvious "dump excess inventory", is pure speculation.

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Regor250 said:

Bassam Guy said:

Cafe Racer said:

Mw74 said:

As mentioned, clearly an Inventory-clearing exercise.

As an experienced astrophotographer, I'm not sure exactly who this will appeal to.

Hardcore imagers will use dedicated astro cameras, the slightly less serious, the more compatible Canon or Nikon astro bodies.

Previous manufacturer's astro bodies both came from Canon and Nikon (20Da, 60Da, EOS Ra and D810a), and these can operate with most astro software due to the open SDK.

Of most of the major brands, OM/Olympus has among the least 3rd party astro support, so automated imaging plans and plate solving are not possible. Believe me, as an Olympus shooter, I have tried...

If you want to go that route, an old 3rd party astro modified Rebel for a quarter of the price makes much more sense.

Click to expand...

That's interesting. The E-M1iii Astro camera doesn't sound like a very competitive product. Maybe it's a desperate attempt by OMDS to generate some extra revenue because business is down?

Click to expand...

I'm not particularly interested in astro but I found this: https://www.43rumors.com/just-announced-new-e-m1-mark-iii-astro-camera/

The comparison shows an improvement that might interest Mr. Narrow Band Channel.

Guessing why OMDS did this is, outside of the obvious "dump excess inventory", is pure speculation.

Click to expand...

Speculation of course, but why would OMDS manufacture new E-M1mkiii Olympus branded bodies? Makes no sense, so the Speculation stands to reasonable conclusion.

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gary0319 said:

Regor250 said:

Bassam Guy said:

Cafe Racer said:

Mw74 said:

As mentioned, clearly an Inventory-clearing exercise.

As an experienced astrophotographer, I'm not sure exactly who this will appeal to.

Hardcore imagers will use dedicated astro cameras, the slightly less serious, the more compatible Canon or Nikon astro bodies.

Previous manufacturer's astro bodies both came from Canon and Nikon (20Da, 60Da, EOS Ra and D810a), and these can operate with most astro software due to the open SDK.

Of most of the major brands, OM/Olympus has among the least 3rd party astro support, so automated imaging plans and plate solving are not possible. Believe me, as an Olympus shooter, I have tried...

If you want to go that route, an old 3rd party astro modified Rebel for a quarter of the price makes much more sense.

Click to expand...

That's interesting. The E-M1iii Astro camera doesn't sound like a very competitive product. Maybe it's a desperate attempt by OMDS to generate some extra revenue because business is down?

Click to expand...

I'm not particularly interested in astro but I found this: https://www.43rumors.com/just-announced-new-e-m1-mark-iii-astro-camera/

The comparison shows an improvement that might interest Mr. Narrow Band Channel.

Guessing why OMDS did this is, outside of the obvious "dump excess inventory", is pure speculation.

Click to expand...

Speculation of course, but why would OMDS manufacture new E-M1mkiii Olympus branded bodies? Makes no sense, so the Speculation stands to reasonable conclusion.

Click to expand...

My "speculation" is that they would not manufacture a "new" E-M1 III camera, nor perhaps, could they under the terms of the divestiture agreement. This whole discussion seems to have turned pointless, except maybe for the OP which obviously started it to deride OMDS.

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Cafe Racer said:

gary0319 said:

Regor250 said:

Bassam Guy said:

Cafe Racer said:

Mw74 said:

As mentioned, clearly an Inventory-clearing exercise.

As an experienced astrophotographer, I'm not sure exactly who this will appeal to.

Hardcore imagers will use dedicated astro cameras, the slightly less serious, the more compatible Canon or Nikon astro bodies.

Previous manufacturer's astro bodies both came from Canon and Nikon (20Da, 60Da, EOS Ra and D810a), and these can operate with most astro software due to the open SDK.

Of most of the major brands, OM/Olympus has among the least 3rd party astro support, so automated imaging plans and plate solving are not possible. Believe me, as an Olympus shooter, I have tried...

If you want to go that route, an old 3rd party astro modified Rebel for a quarter of the price makes much more sense.

Click to expand...

That's interesting. The E-M1iii Astro camera doesn't sound like a very competitive product. Maybe it's a desperate attempt by OMDS to generate some extra revenue because business is down?

Click to expand...

I'm not particularly interested in astro but I found this: https://www.43rumors.com/just-announced-new-e-m1-mark-iii-astro-camera/

The comparison shows an improvement that might interest Mr. Narrow Band Channel.

Guessing why OMDS did this is, outside of the obvious "dump excess inventory", is pure speculation.

Click to expand...

Speculation of course, but why would OMDS manufacture new E-M1mkiii Olympus branded bodies? Makes no sense, so the Speculation stands to reasonable conclusion.

Click to expand...

My "speculation" is that they would not manufacture a "new" E-M1 III camera, nor perhaps, could they under the terms of the divestiture agreement. This whole discussion seems to have turned pointless, except maybe for the OP which obviously started it to deride OMDS.

Click to expand...

Brand loyalty can make people very defensive. Any criticism of the brand they're loyal can be taken as a personal attack on themselves.

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Bassam Guy said:

Cafe Racer said:

gary0319 said:

Regor250 said:

Bassam Guy said:

Cafe Racer said:

Mw74 said:

As mentioned, clearly an Inventory-clearing exercise.

As an experienced astrophotographer, I'm not sure exactly who this will appeal to.

Hardcore imagers will use dedicated astro cameras, the slightly less serious, the more compatible Canon or Nikon astro bodies.

Previous manufacturer's astro bodies both came from Canon and Nikon (20Da, 60Da, EOS Ra and D810a), and these can operate with most astro software due to the open SDK.

Of most of the major brands, OM/Olympus has among the least 3rd party astro support, so automated imaging plans and plate solving are not possible. Believe me, as an Olympus shooter, I have tried...

If you want to go that route, an old 3rd party astro modified Rebel for a quarter of the price makes much more sense.

Click to expand...

That's interesting. The E-M1iii Astro camera doesn't sound like a very competitive product. Maybe it's a desperate attempt by OMDS to generate some extra revenue because business is down?

Click to expand...

I'm not particularly interested in astro but I found this: https://www.43rumors.com/just-announced-new-e-m1-mark-iii-astro-camera/

The comparison shows an improvement that might interest Mr. Narrow Band Channel.

Guessing why OMDS did this is, outside of the obvious "dump excess inventory", is pure speculation.

Click to expand...

Speculation of course, but why would OMDS manufacture new E-M1mkiii Olympus branded bodies? Makes no sense, so the Speculation stands to reasonable conclusion.

Click to expand...

My "speculation" is that they would not manufacture a "new" E-M1 III camera, nor perhaps, could they under the terms of the divestiture agreement. This whole discussion seems to have turned pointless, except maybe for the OP which obviously started it to deride OMDS.

Click to expand...

Brand loyalty can make people very defensive. Any criticism of the brand they're loyal can be taken as a personal attack on themselves.

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A wise and profound point but wholly impertinent to Gary's post. Gary isn't the one who is getting defensive.

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Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

Click to expand...

Ok, that's fine. I think OMDS are reluctant to invest money in producing a new camera of their own. They simply want to rehash/refresh what Olympus passed onto them or already developed because it's a cheaper route to make money. I have no good reason to believe they have any real long term plans.

As for this latest 'Olympus' camera release, it's pretty easy to get a camera modified for astrophotography. In fact someone can buy a used E-M1iii or even an E-M1x, have it modified and save themself a bag of money instead of buying the OMDS Olympus version. There's even DIY options available. What a pointless release. It's simply a cheap route to a quick buck. Why not direct the resources to something that existing customers may actually want. There's plenty of people that have expressed they would like a mid-range camera that has a compact form factor and a premium metal construction. It's not that OMDS don't know that a premium metal bodied mid-range camera is desirable, they just don't want to spend the money to produce it; plastic is cheaper. In fact, they even express how nice premium metal construction is on their website. Look at the screenshot from OMDS' website below! "Beauty of metal and leather". "The solid feel of premium metal construction". "sophisticated finishes". Then you click and you get the plastic bodied E-P7!! Talk about rubbing it in people's faces! You express that you find what I say funny, we'll have a good laugh now because this is certainly a joke!!

Click to expand...

JakeJY said:

Cafe Racer said:

JakeJY said:

As another pointed out, you are making a big deal out of nothing and reading way too much into a niche Japan-only product. OMDS is still selling a ton of cameras with the Olympus logo on it and featuring it prominently too (as I linked)! If the top plate mattered so much, they wouldn't be doing that. I would see a little bit of logic in your point if this camera was the only camera they are selling with the Olympus top plate, but it's very much not.

As for the 2022 announcement, I highly doubt much if any of the camera buyers know about or even care about it to the extent you do. This is just a minor modification of an existing camera (they didn't even have to necessarily add the Astro sticker; they didn't for the IR versions). It changes nothing about their plans to convert the line going forward. Wasting money on useless changes that the rest of the industry wouldn't do either is not how a company would survive (especially true if they were using old parts stock).

But I guess there isn't much else to discuss, I've made my point which you clearly disagree (as I disagree with yours).

Click to expand...

Ok, that's fine. I think OMDS are reluctant to invest money in producing a new camera of their own. They simply want to rehash/refresh what Olympus passed onto them or already developed because it's a cheaper route to make money. I have no good reason to believe they have any real long term plans.

As for this latest 'Olympus' camera release, it's pretty easy to get a camera modified for astrophotography. In fact someone can buy a used E-M1iii or even an E-M1x, have it modified and save themself a bag of money instead of buying the OMDS Olympus version. There's even DIY options available. What a pointless release. It's simply a cheap route to a quick buck. Why not direct the resources to something that existing customers may actually want. There's plenty of people that have expressed they would like a mid-range camera that has a compact form factor and a premium metal construction. It's not that OMDS don't know that a premium metal bodied mid-range camera is desirable, they just don't want to spend the money to produce it; plastic is cheaper. In fact, they even express how nice premium metal construction is on their website. Look at the screenshot from OMDS' website below! "Beauty of metal and leather". "The solid feel of premium metal construction". "sophisticated finishes". Then you click and you get the plastic bodied E-P7!! Talk about rubbing it in people's faces! You express that you find what I say funny, we'll have a good laugh now because this is certainly a joke!!

Click to expand...

Canon released the same type of camera, it's not pointless if they have buyers and it costs little to offer it. You are again putting a negative spin when it's a positive thing to be able to put out a profitable camera! Olympus got in trouble because they failed to do so near the end. There's no long term survival if the company loses money!

As for the whole narrative that OMDS can only survive by having a metal mid-range camera, that sounds once again like wishful irrational thinking. Olympus was on record Pen-F didn't quite meet their sales expectations. Olympus only got a few quarters of profit over the E-M1 II and under OMDS, similarly OM-1 was their big success.

As for the E-P7, it seems to be doing quite well too.

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JakeJY said:

Most people don't care about what material the camera is made of, they care more about the price, and the sales are proving that. By using plastic and being able to offer the camera at a more affordable price, OMDS was able to get a larger market.

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JakeJY said:

That may not match your personal preferences, but you are not the sole buyer in the market.

https://www.43rumors.com/olympus-japan-halts-e-p7-and-e-m10iv-orders-because-of-high-demand/

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