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New 1Ds testing: Feedback please

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Do some research on your own if you don't belive the info here. It is VERY obvious why C1 i preferable when you shoot tethered or have a days work to finish up. If you absolutely must only use PS then fine with me, it's your loss. I will not drag you into a better workflow when you don't want to. But you should find this out for yourself, not only rely on info from this highly unreliable forum. Some great links are further up in the thread.
 
If I understand sensors and printing correctly (working on understanding at least), doesn't the 1Ds approach the eye's ability to visually discriminate in a printed size of 8x10 so that the extra resolution is not needed. Granted if you blow up to larger sizes it becomes an important factor, My 1D and 1Ds produce 8x10 images that I can't tell apart (printed on a HP 1220c photo printer).

I am a tech junkie and get the shakes when I hear about a 22mp sensor and am sure the photos are awesome in the truest sense but I am not sure of the benefits over the 1Ds.

--
Ben Lanterman

http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman/
http://webpages.charter.net/benlanterman/Index.html
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=208093
 
Rick Boden said:
My understanding is the matrix settings only work for JPEG. In
fact none of the camera settings do anything to the Raw file..
Click to expand...
Rick: During testing, I lit a corner of my greatroom that was pretty typical of my interior work -- finished wood, windows, plants, daylight, incandescent, etc. -- and shot it five times. Then I exported them all as-is, and opened them in Photoshop. All shots were raw format, all were at 100 ISO. All I did was change the matrix setting on each shot. All of the raw files looked different, and coincided with the descriptions, i.e. the "high chroma" matrix was more saturated and vivid, etc.

So the matrix setting must do something on raw files.

S(teve)
 
Robin Balas said:
I will not drag you into a better
workflow when you don't want to. But you should find this out for
yourself,
Click to expand...
Easy there Robin! I was very careful to state that I am not anti-C1 or argumentative at all. I'm just ignorant. I am not saying C1 has no benefits, I am saying I don't know what they are. But I am hearing enough pro-C1 passion here and elsewhere that I will very likely download the trial and probably fall in love with it myself.

Steve
 
shudder with pleasure at the thought of a 22MP digital SLR 35MM
Ben Lanterman said:
If I understand sensors and printing correctly (working on
understanding at least), doesn't the 1Ds approach the eye's ability
to visually discriminate in a printed size of 8x10 so that the
extra resolution is not needed. Granted if you blow up to larger
sizes it becomes an important factor, My 1D and 1Ds produce 8x10
images that I can't tell apart (printed on a HP 1220c photo
printer).

I am a tech junkie and get the shakes when I hear about a 22mp
sensor and am sure the photos are awesome in the truest sense but I
am not sure of the benefits over the 1Ds.

--
Ben Lanterman

http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman/
http://webpages.charter.net/benlanterman/Index.html
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=208093
Click to expand...
--
-------------------------------------
Off Topic ? ? ? Tell someone who cares.
Get a life!
 
Ben Lanterman said:
If I understand sensors and printing correctly (working on
understanding at least), doesn't the 1Ds approach the eye's ability
to visually discriminate in a printed size of 8x10 so that the
extra resolution is not needed. Granted if you blow up to larger
sizes it becomes an important factor, My 1D and 1Ds produce 8x10
images that I can't tell apart (printed on a HP 1220c photo
printer).

I am a tech junkie and get the shakes when I hear about a 22mp
sensor and am sure the photos are awesome in the truest sense but I
am not sure of the benefits over the 1Ds.
Click to expand...
I think he means compared to an 8x10" view camera. If the digital back can compete with that, it is quite amazing. Have you seen prints from an 8x10 view camera? Amazing...absolutely stunning (if the photographer is good too, of course!). The 1Ds is an amazing machine, but it still cannot touch an 8x10" camera. Someday, though, its successor might :)

-Ken
Ben Lanterman74611 said:
--
Ben Lanterman

http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman/
http://webpages.charter.net/benlanterman/Index.html
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=208093
Click to expand...
--
http://www.kennethturley.com
http://www.pbase.com/mistereman
 
Ben Lanterman said:
1Ds approach the eye's ability
to visually discriminate in a printed size of 8x10 so that the
extra resolution is not needed.
Click to expand...
My work ends up offset printed in color literature, and there is a point where more image data does not gain you anything. A printing press is really a pretty primitive thing, throwing little globs of ink onto a rough surface. It sort of blurs and smooths image data at a micro level. More data won't improve the image if the press just smooths it out in the end.

For instance: 300 dpi is the standard for good quality CMYK printing at a 135 lpi screen. I could create prepress files that are 600 or 800 or 1200 dpi, but it wouldn't gain me anything. Once the ink is on the paper, the larger files will (in theory) look no better to the nekkid eye than the 300 dpi file.

I expect a similar thing happens with inkjet prints, too. But I don know nuttin bout no inkjet. ;-)

Steve
 
Very interesting Steve, I will try your test later today with Capture One and see if I get the same results.

Rick
 
STBeck said:
So the matrix setting must do something on raw files.
Click to expand...
Nope... it's the conversion software that reads that metadata,
and then changes it's processing parameters. That's why you
can choose different color parms in FVU, and I assume CS/C1,
although I haven't looked.
 
I haven't used Photoshop CS. I din't like the color controls in ACR. I'm sure you can do excellent conversions with it with it. But I like to view my adjusted RAW files as I shoot. Capture One lets me do that.

Capture One does a lot more than conversions. I like the way the camera works tethered on it. The Canon remote software is not as good. Capture One does complete work flow management - this is important to any high volume shooter.

As I said before, you need to spend the minimal time it takes to download the software and the significant time it takes to understand and exploit its features. Then you'll see if it is of any benefit to you.

Alan Goldstein

http://www.goldsteinphoto.com
 
STBeck said:
Re: Excess quality? Once
the ink is on the paper, the larger files will (in theory) look no
better to the nekkid eye than the 300 dpi file.
Click to expand...
Thats the beauty of the 1ds. It can go straight to magazine printing at 300dpi on a full A4 page with no interpolation what-so-ever.

Excess Quality? nope, no if you are doing that.

Aside from Digital backed MF and the (very inflexaible) Kodak 14n there is nothing else on the market that will do that.

Someone earlier on in this post mentioned that the 1ds would be obsolete in a bit when the new models come out. I don't think so. This camera does all I want and more. You won't see me waving my cash at a salesman just because the new model is out. 22mp would be very nice in some situations, but them files are getting bigger....
 
Went back and checked my notes (I have shot SO many test images) and here is what I actually did: Shot with the camera set to RAW quality, but saved the files as 16-bit tiff. So no, I am not getting color matrix settings in raw files. But I do get matrix settings in tiffs. Sorry for any confusion.
S
Larry Lueck said:
STBeck said:
So the matrix setting must do something on raw files.
Click to expand...
Nope... it's the conversion software that reads that metadata,
and then changes it's processing parameters. That's why you
can choose different color parms in FVU, and I assume CS/C1,
although I haven't looked.
Click to expand...
 
STBeck said:
Went back and checked my notes (I have shot SO many test images)
and here is what I actually did: Shot with the camera set to RAW
quality, but saved the files as 16-bit tiff. So no, I am not
getting color matrix settings in raw files. But I do get matrix
settings in tiffs. Sorry for any confusion.
S
Click to expand...
Steve,

It can get confusing because Canon decided to give the 1Ds Raw file a .tif extender. As Larry said the Raw files come straight from the camera's CCD without any modification but they do come with some of the camera settings that your raw converter can make use of. Jpegs are another story and I find like you, Matrix 4 is the best.

If you like to shoot tethered, you will love Capture One. It is not as good on the Mac yet, but they are working on it. The nice thing is that you can include a gray scale in your first exposure, click on a white strip to tune your colour balance and apply that setting to the rest of your exposures. It works very well.

Rick
 
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