Greg7579
Forum Pro
You mean impatiently explained....
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Studio Scene at 4:3 downsampled to 4K, Z8 and GFX 100
- Thread starter JimKasson
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Greg7579
Forum Pro
LR must do a pretty good job on down sampling. My GFX raw files look spectacular on my 32-inch 6K monitor (so much better than anything I've ever seen) at full screen fit and full res (which is of course partial).
Pretty exciting and amazing monitor tech going on now. I want more. 8K please.
Jim, I'm not arguing with your down sampling math, crop lessons (on other threads), denying science or declaring the Earth is flat.
You were the one who taught me to keep the LR jpeg exports full size so that the jpeg down sampling algorithms on the various platforms could do their work while still retaining the ability for people to download the full file and view it in various ways of their choosing.
But I still see what I see and there is a visual difference between FF and GFX. But both are amazing, so pick and choose between both like we both when we shoot our GFX 100 MP and Leica 60MP FF cameras.
Greg7579
Forum Pro
You are up early Jim.
I'm jet lagged from 3 months in Europe and have been waking up at 4 AM at my daughter's house in Chapel Hill NC. She had a 9 pounder 2 days ago. Grandkid number 7.
I'm jet lagged from 3 months in Europe and have been waking up at 4 AM at my daughter's house in Chapel Hill NC. She had a 9 pounder 2 days ago. Grandkid number 7.
Confirmation bias? Placebo effect?
Greg7579
Forum Pro
That along with the denial of science and apparent inability to do math by my two eyeballs.
Do you use the terms downsampling, resize and resampling interchangeably (e.g. in this post: https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-wo...viewing-natural-images-qimage-downsampling/)? If not, what is done in each case? Thx.
In proper context, resize and resampling mean the same thing. Downsampling is a special case of resampling, in which the output has fewer pixels than the input.
Clear?
Jim
I remember designing and building a preamp, swapping it into my system to replace a store-bought preamp, and being amazed by how much better it sounded. After using it for a few months, I started swapping it back and forth with the old preamp, and slowly came to the realization that the differences were fairly small.
Jim
Thx, like this, possibly simplified?
Resize: same number of pixels, but difference size in length and hight @100%
Resampling: different number of pixels, either higher or lower than original pixel count
Downsampling; lower number of pixel count than original.
Resizing used for printing, resampling / downsampling or upsampling used for screen viewing. Downsampling done at export to avoid lower quailty adaption to full screen viewing?[
That is a legitimate definition, but it doesn't correspond to how most people use the term. For anything but PDFs and printing, images of the same aspect ratio and pixel count are virtually the same size.
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Manzur Fahim
Senior Member
Thank you for the comparison, Jim.
Developed in Lr with default settings except for WB.
Night and day? I think not. There are some differences.
Forgive me, but I want to ask: I feel like when we down-sample GFX files to match a full frame camera, we are trying to show how much they are all the same. Why don't we upscale the Z8 photo and compare with GFX to show the difference a larger sensor + higher resolution camera makes at its native resolution comparing to a full frame camera?
I always think this when I see a comparison of GFX with a FF camera. Why down-grading the high-res image? Why not upscale the FF image and show how MF is superior?
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IG: https://www.instagram.com/manzurfahim/
website: https://www.manzurfahim.com
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That would make almost perfect sense if we were talking about printing. What I do is a twist on that. I resample both images to a resolution higher than either.Thank you for the comparison, Jim.
Developed in Lr with default settings except for WB.
Night and day? I think not. There are some differences.
Forgive me, but I want to ask: I feel like when we down-sample GFX files to match a full frame camera, we are trying to show how much they are all the same. Why don't we upscale the Z8 photo and compare with GFX to show the difference a larger sensor + higher resolution camera makes at its native resolution comparing to a full frame camera?
But in this case, we're talking about viewing the full image on a monitor.
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the last word the last word - Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.
Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.
blog.kasson.com
Thx Jim, so my definitions of resampling / donwsampling / upsampling are ok? But I am still not clear on the resize definition / what is the goal and result of resizing? The link you provided is not helping me, sorry.
Rodenmg
Veteran Member
It’s really hard to compare two different formats in a way everyone agrees with. I believe the best way is to print both to the same size. Then you can argue at what size the difference becomes apparent.Thank you for the comparison, Jim.
Developed in Lr with default settings except for WB.
Night and day? I think not. There are some differences.
Forgive me, but I want to ask: I feel like when we down-sample GFX files to match a full frame camera, we are trying to show how much they are all the same. Why don't we upscale the Z8 photo and compare with GFX to show the difference a larger sensor + higher resolution camera makes at its native resolution comparing to a full frame camera?
I always think this when I see a comparison of GFX with a FF camera. Why down-grading the high-res image? Why not upscale the FF image and show how MF is superior?
--
IG: https://www.instagram.com/manzurfahim/
website: https://www.manzurfahim.com
--
... Mike, formerly known as Rod.
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
Yes.
I use resizing and resampling interchangeably. What you're calling resizing is simply a change to the metadata.
It describes how Matlab uses the term resize.
The assertion that inspired this post wasn't about printing.It’s really hard to compare two different formats in a way everyone agrees with. I believe the best way is to print both to the same size. Then you can argue at what size the difference becomes apparent.Thank you for the comparison, Jim.
Developed in Lr with default settings except for WB.
Night and day? I think not. There are some differences.
Forgive me, but I want to ask: I feel like when we down-sample GFX files to match a full frame camera, we are trying to show how much they are all the same. Why don't we upscale the Z8 photo and compare with GFX to show the difference a larger sensor + higher resolution camera makes at its native resolution comparing to a full frame camera?
I always think this when I see a comparison of GFX with a FF camera. Why down-grading the high-res image? Why not upscale the FF image and show how MF is superior?
--
the last word the last word - Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.
Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.
blog.kasson.com
Rodenmg
Veteran Member
The difference between on screen viewing and printing is you can actually print large enough to see a difference. I don’t know of any screen big enough, with enough resolution to do that. Other than zooming inThe assertion that inspired this post wasn't about printing.It’s really hard to compare two different formats in a way everyone agrees with. I believe the best way is to print both to the same size. Then you can argue at what size the difference becomes apparent.Thank you for the comparison, Jim.
Developed in Lr with default settings except for WB.
Night and day? I think not. There are some differences.
Forgive me, but I want to ask: I feel like when we down-sample GFX files to match a full frame camera, we are trying to show how much they are all the same. Why don't we upscale the Z8 photo and compare with GFX to show the difference a larger sensor + higher resolution camera makes at its native resolution comparing to a full frame camera?
I always think this when I see a comparison of GFX with a FF camera. Why down-grading the high-res image? Why not upscale the FF image and show how MF is superior?
--
https://blog.kasson.com
--
... Mike, formerly known as Rod.
... https://www.flickr.com/photos/198581502@N02/
Ap0ll0n
Senior Member
Jim, I looked at the studio pics today on my 14 in laptop and I can't see a difference, unlike when I looked at them yesterday on my 42in monitor. I think that is an important parameter to keep in mind when we're saying there is or there is not a difference, same if someone like Greg is viewing things on a 6K vs 4K monitor. Similarly, I also think it's important to state what dimensions are your supplied images downscaled to; are those dimensions enough to cover the area of a 14in or a 42in monitor?No, the top image is from the Z8. That's why there's more color aliasing.Thanks. So I see three things now:Here's what I see in Ps, as a PNG.Sure. But this file looks 99% the same as the raw, on the left, and on my monitor.That's a JPEG file. Compression on top of compression, in one case.
Oh, rats! DPR turned it into a JPEG.
At least both images have the same compression.
There is no question that there is less Bayer color aliasing in the 100 MP image.
1. The top image is the better one, is that the GFX?
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Apollon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/apollonas/
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Which is the point of this thread. It's not that you can't see a difference on a 4K screen when you're viewing the full image. It's that the difference is subtle, and not the night and day delta that some have claimed.The difference between on screen viewing and printing is you can actually print large enough to see a difference. I don’t know of any screen big enough, with enough resolution to do that. Other than zooming inThe assertion that inspired this post wasn't about printing.It’s really hard to compare two different formats in a way everyone agrees with. I believe the best way is to print both to the same size. Then you can argue at what size the difference becomes apparent.Thank you for the comparison, Jim.
Developed in Lr with default settings except for WB.
Night and day? I think not. There are some differences.
Forgive me, but I want to ask: I feel like when we down-sample GFX files to match a full frame camera, we are trying to show how much they are all the same. Why don't we upscale the Z8 photo and compare with GFX to show the difference a larger sensor + higher resolution camera makes at its native resolution comparing to a full frame camera?
I always think this when I see a comparison of GFX with a FF camera. Why down-grading the high-res image? Why not upscale the FF image and show how MF is superior?
--
the last word the last word - Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.
Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.
blog.kasson.com
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