And... In one video the S9 is undone.

Jonathan Mac said:

The problem with the S9 is that the engineers have been told they need to meet a certain size requirement and they've cut multiple items that most camera users (photographers and videographers) would consider very important, if not essential.

Lack of EVF rules out most photographers.

Lack of a mechanical shutter rules out most photographers.

Slow sensor read-out rules out some videographers.

Lack of an audio-out rules out most videographers (at least the ones who know what they're doing).

Lack of a hotshoe rules out many users.

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

They could have saved some of their issues in terms of complaints with a hotshoe which would not have affected size, but too late now.

OSPhoto said:

Jonathan Mac said:

The problem with the S9 is that the engineers have been told they need to meet a certain size requirement and they've cut multiple items that most camera users (photographers and videographers) would consider very important, if not essential.

Lack of EVF rules out most photographers.

Lack of a mechanical shutter rules out most photographers.

Slow sensor read-out rules out some videographers.

Lack of an audio-out rules out most videographers (at least the ones who know what they're doing).

Lack of a hotshoe rules out many users.

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

They could have saved some of their issues in terms of complaints with a hotshoe which would not have affected size, but too late now.

Click to expand...

Mechanical shutter comes before the hotshoe...

Hustle76 said:

Jonathan Mac said:

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

I realise that I’m at something of a disadvantage in this discussion as I’ve used the camera, but found absolutely no issues with the camera without an external grip.

Although I’ve seen two or three reviewers who said that they felt a grip was needed all the time, mostly I’ve seen people say that they were pleasantly surprised at how it handled without it.

I suspect the target market will be happy without the grip, but for those who want prefer a more traditional grip (i.e. most of the reviewers fit) will be happier with an add-on option.

Click to expand...

The flat front is one of the ergonomic aspects I like about the S9. As much as I don't like the 26/8 manual focus lens, I would get it to keep things flat... (I also think that the flatness of the body is a feature of the x100 series that doesn't get enough praise).

Hustle76 said:

As to who the target audience is, Toshiyuki Tsumura has touched upon this and it’s aimed at people who post stills and video on SNS. From what I’ve seen online, in Asia the response has been good but until there’s information on what sales were like none of us can say for sure what the market is liked… not that that will stop people for guessing.

Click to expand...

Did they say why someone would prefer or why they thing someone would prefer to use the s9 vs a cell phone? That is the key line that seems to be missing from these discussions.

jhunna said:

OSPhoto said:

Jonathan Mac said:

The problem with the S9 is that the engineers have been told they need to meet a certain size requirement and they've cut multiple items that most camera users (photographers and videographers) would consider very important, if not essential.

Lack of EVF rules out most photographers.

Lack of a mechanical shutter rules out most photographers.

Slow sensor read-out rules out some videographers.

Lack of an audio-out rules out most videographers (at least the ones who know what they're doing).

Lack of a hotshoe rules out many users.

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

They could have saved some of their issues in terms of complaints with a hotshoe which would not have affected size, but too late now.

Click to expand...

Mechanical shutter comes before the hotshoe...

Click to expand...

True, you are correct that also doesn't impact size and weight but would be more impactful on cost

OSPhoto said:

jhunna said:

OSPhoto said:

Jonathan Mac said:

The problem with the S9 is that the engineers have been told they need to meet a certain size requirement and they've cut multiple items that most camera users (photographers and videographers) would consider very important, if not essential.

Lack of EVF rules out most photographers.

Lack of a mechanical shutter rules out most photographers.

Slow sensor read-out rules out some videographers.

Lack of an audio-out rules out most videographers (at least the ones who know what they're doing).

Lack of a hotshoe rules out many users.

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

They could have saved some of their issues in terms of complaints with a hotshoe which would not have affected size, but too late now.

Click to expand...

Mechanical shutter comes before the hotshoe...

Click to expand...

True, you are correct that also doesn't impact size and weight but would be more impactful on cost

Click to expand...

It would also mean the internal design would be different - Benji Haisch commented upon this in his review.

Jonathan Mac said:

The problem with the S9 is that the engineers have been told they need to meet a certain size requirement and they've cut multiple items that most camera users (photographers and videographers) would consider very important, if not essential.

Lack of EVF rules out most photographers.

Lack of a mechanical shutter rules out most photographers.

Slow sensor read-out rules out some videographers.

Lack of an audio-out rules out most videographers (at least the ones who know what they're doing).

Lack of a hotshoe rules out many users.

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

The Sony ZV-E10 is one of the best selling cameras of the last 2 to 3 years.

It doesn't have an EVF. It doesn't have a mechanical shutter. It doesn't have a fast sensor and it's rolling shutter is abysmal. It also doesn't have IBIS.

The target market for this camera (and I'm making the assumption the Lumix S9 is aimed at the same market) doesn't care about the issues you mentioned above.


Now where it will be interesting to find out, is whether people will pay the $1500 to upgrade to full frame from APS-C, get incredible IBIS and the LUT/filters feature. It's a bet that Lumix seem willing to take, so maybe their market research indicates to them that the S9 fills the gap well.


They also managed to launch the S9 before the ZV-E10 II is announced.

Plus, if it converts people to L mount, then maybe it leads to more people also buying the S5II etc. further down the road.

MitchH90 said:

Jonathan Mac said:

The problem with the S9 is that the engineers have been told they need to meet a certain size requirement and they've cut multiple items that most camera users (photographers and videographers) would consider very important, if not essential.

Lack of EVF rules out most photographers.

Lack of a mechanical shutter rules out most photographers.

Slow sensor read-out rules out some videographers.

Lack of an audio-out rules out most videographers (at least the ones who know what they're doing).

Lack of a hotshoe rules out many users.

Lack of a proper grip rules out many users. Even Panasonic acknowledge that the S9 pretty much has to be used with an add-on grip, which is why they provided one to all the reviewers on the trip to Osaka that they paid for. So the size, weight and cost of the S9 are not real as they don't include that grip.

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

The Sony ZV-E10 is one of the best selling cameras of the last 2 to 3 years.

It doesn't have an EVF. It doesn't have a mechanical shutter. It doesn't have a fast sensor and it's rolling shutter is abysmal. It also doesn't have IBIS.

The target market for this camera (and I'm making the assumption the Lumix S9 is aimed at the same market) doesn't care about the issues you mentioned above.
Now where it will be interesting to find out, is whether people will pay the $1500 to upgrade to full frame from APS-C, get incredible IBIS and the LUT/filters feature.

Click to expand...

$598 for the zv-e10 vs $1500 for the S9. A lot of us feel that FF and luts aren't worth almost $1000.

MitchH90 said:

It's a bet that Lumix seem willing to take, so maybe their market research indicates to them that the S9 fills the gap well.

They also managed to launch the S9 before the ZV-E10 II is announced.
Plus, if it converts people to L mount, then maybe it leads to more people also buying the S5II etc. further down the road.

Click to expand...

Jonathan Mac said:

I keep being told I'm "not the target market for this camera", which is absolutely true. But who is the target market? Almost no-one.

Click to expand...

The target market is people like my teenage son who would be happy to shoot on his smartphone all day, but wants to use a "real camera" so that he looks / feels cooler. All his friends (who all have newer-generation iPhones) are dying to get their hands on a Fuji x100VI.

Vanity sells.

I mean, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would want to buy a CyberTruck, but apparently people have been putting down deposits for over five years to be one of the first to drive one.

I doubt the S9 is going to be a grand slam, but maybe, just maybe, the S9 will help Panasonic edge past OM Systems in terms of camera sales and crawl in to fifth place.

jhunna said:

bing041 said:

jhunna said:

ricktachtig said:

For most enthousiasts who want to do videography the phone is amazing. Just look at the below video as an example. This is perfectly fine for most enthousiasts.

Video example:

This video is shot with the iPhone 15 Pro. This is some amazing stuff.

Click to expand...

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Other than, admittedly, nice software tricks, Better to get a nice grip for your phone, and use it.

Click to expand...

You won't stop. You find one advantage of another camera, and ignore all its disadvantages: the ZV-E1has a 12 MP sensor.

Click to expand...

That's not an issue... I even like the look of the 12MP photos.

jhunna said:

Do you really want to use that camera for stills, over a phone?

Click to expand...

Absolutely, real flash, multiple fps if needed, mech shutter all matter...

jhunna said:

It has really poor stabilization (I use it for video, and gave it up),

Click to expand...

That's just no true, one of its best features is dynamic stabilization, now you have me questioning if you really used the zv-e1.

jhunna said:

it has no open gate,

Click to expand...

Agreed it should have Opengate

jhunna said:

its 4K is less than 4K, as opposed to the super-sampled 4K from the S9.

Click to expand...

Meh... that super sampling is likely the reason they don't allow long recording times.

jhunna said:

And like the S9, it has no EVF and has thermal limits (it does do a nice 4K 120P, unlike the S9).

Click to expand...

I don't like the lack of an evf either, and the thermal limits are controllable by the end user.

jhunna said:

The S9's stabilization and video capabilities are not software tricks - 6K open gate is not a software trick, right?

Click to expand...

I was referring to the LUTs, which is the one revolutionary feature of the S9.

jhunna said:

We get it, you shoot stills and want an EVF and a mechanical shutter - perfectly reasonable. If you don't care about video (and evidently do not understand it) and you don't value compactness, this camera for you is a total failure. We get it.

Click to expand...

Nah, you don't get, at least not when it comes to me. I shoot photos and video equally. I use slog3, LUTs, davinci studio, and understand the differences in the various codecs needed for different video outcomes. I also take a lot of photos, and the lack of a mechanical shutter will be an issue when fluorescent lights are causing banding.

jhunna said:

Again, think compact S5 ii video camera.

Click to expand...

I get it...

jhunna said:

Superior to phones for video in many, many ways. But, yes, a talented person can shoot a video that will be impressive, knowing how to hide its defects (like with shots that are 1-second long (so shaky handheld is not seen), shot in good light (so the shortcomings of a tiny sensor are never seen), and where shallow DOF is irrelevant (since for most shots, that would be impossible for a phone (not all shots)).

Only a person not experienced in shooting video would find the iPhone video as evidence that a phone is a perfectly good video camera making an S5 ii worthless (and thus an S9).

Click to expand...

That's not true at all. It takes a person who IS experienced in shooting video, to appreciate how those video tricks they used in that iPhone video would be welcomed by creatives.

Lumix would have been better served updating their smaller m43 cameras with a few modern ports, and adding LUTS feature. Some of us Lumix fan boys have been watching Lumix miss the mark for years and the hope was that Lumix had finally figured it out with theS9. Look up the Lumix Gx8 to see what Lumix is capable of, I shot a lot of video and pictures on that superior specced device. Fhd60p and it produced video that remains gorgeous, yet it could also support 1/250 ss for flash.

I don't dislike this camera, I do lament Lumix missing the mark again.

Click to expand...

If you take stills a lot, this "hybrid" is not for you. We get it. But don't knock the video capabilities. Yes, the iPhone video is a demonstration of the skill of the videographer; precisely, not the quality of the camera, a video that hides all its shortcomings. Impressive, but irrelevant to the matter at hand - the video capability of the equipment. iPhone!

And, be careful about saying anything about the quality of a camera you do not use - case in point: the Sony ZV E1. You read the specs - "active stabilization". Must be good, you think. It is not. You can use gyro stabilization in post very effectively, but that crops an already less-than-4K image. You want links to my ZV E1 videos on YouTube? Just ask. I got plenty of m43 videos too, but have moved on and up.

And, I guess you do not care about video resolution by dismissing supersampling, and are satisfied when a camera claims it shoots 4K but does not (Sony ZV-E1, for example).

Lumix missed YOUR "mark." Too bad for you, I am sorry for your disappointment. Again, we get it. You are working out your frustration by dissing the camera any way you can, replete with misinformation, because it does not meet your needs. Over and over again. Look at the number of your posts here. When you do not even have an S9 or evidently use a camera that has the S9 video capabilities (S5 ii). Why not move on? Go the m43 forum, and wax enthusiastic for those tiny-sensor cameras. Easy to make those cameras compact, 1" sensors, even easier. Full frame is a challenge to get small, but you get real benefits.

The S9 meets my needs very well (not all of them, but enough), as I do not shoot stills and do not use an EVF. Dumping an EVF, flash, mechanical shutter, bulging handle to attain compactness is the right formula for me. We get it is exactly the wrong formula for you. We get it, get it?

Off The Mark said:

I doubt the S9 is going to be a grand slam, but maybe, just maybe, the S9 will help Panasonic edge past OM Systems in terms of camera sales and crawl in to fifth place.

Click to expand...

Panasonic has been in 5th place for at least a few years, maybe since the launch of L-mount?

Sales by brand are:

1. Canon
2. Sony
3. Nikon
4. Fujifilm
5. Panasonic

OM is part of "Other" in the graph below which includes Leica, Pentax, Hassleblad, Ricoh, etc.

And it's worth noting that Fujifilm's sales are dominated by the Instax range.




Digital camera manufacturers market share worldwide 2023 | Statista

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics...ers-digital-cameras-market-share-sales-volume

--
Pete

bing041 said:

jhunna said:

bing041 said:

jhunna said:

ricktachtig said:

For most enthousiasts who want to do videography the phone is amazing. Just look at the below video as an example. This is perfectly fine for most enthousiasts.

Video example:

This video is shot with the iPhone 15 Pro. This is some amazing stuff.

Click to expand...

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Other than, admittedly, nice software tricks, Better to get a nice grip for your phone, and use it.

Click to expand...

You won't stop. You find one advantage of another camera, and ignore all its disadvantages: the ZV-E1has a 12 MP sensor.

Click to expand...

That's not an issue... I even like the look of the 12MP photos.

bing041 said:

Do you really want to use that camera for stills, over a phone?

Click to expand...

Absolutely, real flash, multiple fps if needed, mech shutter all matter...

bing041 said:

It has really poor stabilization (I use it for video, and gave it up),

Click to expand...

That's just no true, one of its best features is dynamic stabilization, now you have me questioning if you really used the zv-e1.

bing041 said:

it has no open gate,

Click to expand...

Agreed it should have Opengate

bing041 said:

its 4K is less than 4K, as opposed to the super-sampled 4K from the S9.

Click to expand...

Meh... that super sampling is likely the reason they don't allow long recording times.

bing041 said:

And like the S9, it has no EVF and has thermal limits (it does do a nice 4K 120P, unlike the S9).

Click to expand...

I don't like the lack of an evf either, and the thermal limits are controllable by the end user.

bing041 said:

The S9's stabilization and video capabilities are not software tricks - 6K open gate is not a software trick, right?

Click to expand...

I was referring to the LUTs, which is the one revolutionary feature of the S9.

bing041 said:

We get it, you shoot stills and want an EVF and a mechanical shutter - perfectly reasonable. If you don't care about video (and evidently do not understand it) and you don't value compactness, this camera for you is a total failure. We get it.

Click to expand...

Nah, you don't get, at least not when it comes to me. I shoot photos and video equally. I use slog3, LUTs, davinci studio, and understand the differences in the various codecs needed for different video outcomes. I also take a lot of photos, and the lack of a mechanical shutter will be an issue when fluorescent lights are causing banding.

bing041 said:

Again, think compact S5 ii video camera.

Click to expand...

I get it...

bing041 said:

Superior to phones for video in many, many ways. But, yes, a talented person can shoot a video that will be impressive, knowing how to hide its defects (like with shots that are 1-second long (so shaky handheld is not seen), shot in good light (so the shortcomings of a tiny sensor are never seen), and where shallow DOF is irrelevant (since for most shots, that would be impossible for a phone (not all shots)).

Only a person not experienced in shooting video would find the iPhone video as evidence that a phone is a perfectly good video camera making an S5 ii worthless (and thus an S9).

Click to expand...

That's not true at all. It takes a person who IS experienced in shooting video, to appreciate how those video tricks they used in that iPhone video would be welcomed by creatives.

Lumix would have been better served updating their smaller m43 cameras with a few modern ports, and adding LUTS feature. Some of us Lumix fan boys have been watching Lumix miss the mark for years and the hope was that Lumix had finally figured it out with theS9. Look up the Lumix Gx8 to see what Lumix is capable of, I shot a lot of video and pictures on that superior specced device. Fhd60p and it produced video that remains gorgeous, yet it could also support 1/250 ss for flash.

I don't dislike this camera, I do lament Lumix missing the mark again.

Click to expand...

If you take stills a lot, this "hybrid" is not for you. We get it. But don't knock the video capabilities. Yes, the iPhone video is a demonstration of the skill of the videographer; precisely, not the quality of the camera, a video that hides all its shortcomings. Impressive, but irrelevant to the matter at hand - the video capability of the equipment. iPhone!

Click to expand...

The video capabilities are pedestrian for the price. That's part of the issue...

bing041 said:

And, be careful about saying anything about the quality of a camera you do not use - case in point: the Sony ZV E1. You read the specs - "active stabilization". Must be good, you think. It is not. You can use gyro stabilization in post very effectively, but that crops an already less-than-4K image. You want links to my ZV E1 videos on YouTube? Just ask. I got plenty of m43 videos too, but have moved on and up.

Click to expand...

First off, I have used the zv-e1, so much so that if it had an evf, I would have purchased it, as it were I sent it back for the a6700 and the a7cr. I didn't read the spec, "active Stabilization" I was talking about the spec, "Dynamic Active Stabilization" which is almost gimbal like, and as good as anything I have used from the older LUmix cameras. I would like to have links to your zv-e1 videos.

bing041 said:

And, I guess you do not care about video resolution by dismissing supersampling, and are satisfied when a camera claims it shoots 4K but does not (Sony ZV-E1, for example).

Click to expand...

Over sampling doesn't affect resolution, it affects detail. The 4k image is still 4k, ie the same resolution. It does produce a sharper video, but at the cost of additional processing and heat.

bing041 said:

Lumix missed YOUR "mark." Too bad for you, I am sorry for your disappointment.

Click to expand...

Too bad for Lumix, not for me. I can buy almost anything I want. I have wanted to buy a Lumix upgrade to the GX8 for over 5 years, it never came. Lumix missed out on the sales, Sony gave me what I wanted, and in the process got thousands of my dollars.

bing041 said:

Again, we get it. You are working out your frustration by dissing the camera any way you can, replete with misinformation, because it does not meet your needs. Over and over again. Look at the number of your posts here. When you do not even have an S9 or evidently use a camera that has the S9 video capabilities (S5 ii). Why not move on? Go the m43 forum, and wax enthusiastic for those tiny-sensor cameras. Easy to make those cameras compact, 1" sensors, even easier. Full frame is a challenge to get small, but you get real benefits.

Click to expand...

Why do you care what I am doing, you act like the camera is your child? Sony seems to have solved the challenge of competent, small FF cameras. Lumix outside of its outstanding video centric cameras seems to keep missing the mark in other categories.

bing041 said:

The S9 meets my needs very well (not all of them, but enough), as I do not shoot stills and do not use an EVF. Dumping an EVF, flash, mechanical shutter, bulging handle to attain compactness is the right formula for me. We get it is exactly the wrong formula for you. We get it, get it?

Click to expand...

Let us know when you actually purchase the S9 and how you get on with it. I don't dislike the s9, I find it an oddity, and I want to see how it makes out in the market. If I am wrong who cares? If I am right who cares? Matter of fact why do you care so much about what I think? (it isn't me chasing down your posts to see "what is he saying now?")

jhunna said:

Matter of fact why do you care so much about what I think?

Click to expand...

It seems strange that someone would start a thread on a forum if they don't think people should care what they think.

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

Matter of fact why do you care so much about what I think?

Click to expand...

It seems strange that someone would start a thread on a forum if they don't think people should care what they think.

Click to expand...

Of course I am interested in the dialogue. That comment wasn't directed to the general audience. That was directed at someone who has said, several times, in several replies "We get it. We get it."

I like how you left off the parenthetical phrase that would have completed the thought as I intended...

Matter of fact why do you care so much about what I think? (it isn't me chasing down your posts to see "what is he saying now?")

jhunna said:

I like how you left off the parenthetical phrase that would have completed the thought as I intended...

Matter of fact why do you care so much about what I think? (it isn't me chasing down your posts to see "what is he saying now?")

Click to expand...

I left it off because it seemed to make even LESS sense, so I figured you were having a brain cramp.

The whole point of a forum is to have a discussion, is it not?

And this forum has automatic notifications when a thread that is subscribed to gets a response.

Combine that with the fact that one is automatically subscribed to a thread once they post to it, it seems safe to say one isn't "chasing down" your posts. Instead, they are Just responding to them they way the forum is designed to have people respond

Dpreview forums were designed to facilitate engagement.

Anyway, this whole thread has been a nothing burger. I encourage you to use the cameras you love (or at least like a lot) as much as possible and get as much enjoyment out of them as you can, whatever the brand.

For me, for this thread, I'm gonna dip.

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Click to expand...

I believe you are completely ignoring the target demographic of the S9.

It is for content creators who like shooting with their phones but want to LOOK like they are more professional than they really are.

They want to FEEL like they are using a professional camera, even if they will only end up using it in the exact same way they would have used a smartphone.

Click to expand...

$1500 US for poseurs? Do you think they have that kind of money? There are millions of used cameras they could achieve that with for next to nothing.

SUPER-ELMAR said:

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Click to expand...

I believe you are completely ignoring the target demographic of the S9.

It is for content creators who like shooting with their phones but want to LOOK like they are more professional than they really are.

They want to FEEL like they are using a professional camera, even if they will only end up using it in the exact same way they would have used a smartphone.

Click to expand...

$1500 US for poseurs? Do you think they have that kind of money? There are millions of used cameras they could achieve that with for next to nothing.

Click to expand...

THIS! The combination of traits for the s9 just don't add up. When you look at the zv-1, it is inexpensive. When you look at the zv-e1, it is feature rich. If the s9 were $999, I don't think this thread gets 10% of the traffic it is getting.

A stripped down full frame camera for less than $999, even I would get one as a back up.

SUPER-ELMAR said:

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Click to expand...

I believe you are completely ignoring the target demographic of the S9.

It is for content creators who like shooting with their phones but want to LOOK like they are more professional than they really are.

They want to FEEL like they are using a professional camera, even if they will only end up using it in the exact same way they would have used a smartphone.

Click to expand...

$1500 US for poseurs? Do you think they have that kind of money? There are millions of used cameras they could achieve that with for next to nothing.

Click to expand...

If they are a social media SNS creator, they have more money then you think.

Besides, once Panasonic milks early adapters (of whom there are many), it will go on sale with ridiculous discounts.

sunnycal said:

SUPER-ELMAR said:

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Click to expand...

I believe you are completely ignoring the target demographic of the S9.

It is for content creators who like shooting with their phones but want to LOOK like they are more professional than they really are.

They want to FEEL like they are using a professional camera, even if they will only end up using it in the exact same way they would have used a smartphone.

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$1500 US for poseurs? Do you think they have that kind of money? There are millions of used cameras they could achieve that with for next to nothing.

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If they are a social media SNS creator, they have more money then you think.

Besides, once Panasonic milks early adapters (of whom there are many), it will go on sale with ridiculous discounts.

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In Japan, the pricing has been well received with a number of reviews I’ve seen saying it was lower than expected, FWIW.

sunnycal said:

SUPER-ELMAR said:

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Click to expand...

I believe you are completely ignoring the target demographic of the S9.

It is for content creators who like shooting with their phones but want to LOOK like they are more professional than they really are.

They want to FEEL like they are using a professional camera, even if they will only end up using it in the exact same way they would have used a smartphone.

Click to expand...

$1500 US for poseurs? Do you think they have that kind of money? There are millions of used cameras they could achieve that with for next to nothing.

Click to expand...

If they are a social media SNS creator, they have more money then you think.

Click to expand...

If they are an SNS who is already making money, they don't need/desire this camera except as a backup. It is clearly for someone who is moving on from a phone.

sunnycal said:

Besides, once Panasonic milks early adapters (of whom there are many), it will go on sale with ridiculous discounts.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%. Lumix is good for offering good discounts. If it makes it to $999 it will fly off the shelves.

Hustle76 said:

sunnycal said:

SUPER-ELMAR said:

Off The Mark said:

jhunna said:

When someone buys a camera they want more than the smart phone capabilities, ie handling, features, etc... the S9 is coming up short in the 3 most desired features. Even the not much more expensive zv-e1 has a manual shutter.

Click to expand...

I believe you are completely ignoring the target demographic of the S9.

It is for content creators who like shooting with their phones but want to LOOK like they are more professional than they really are.

They want to FEEL like they are using a professional camera, even if they will only end up using it in the exact same way they would have used a smartphone.

Click to expand...

$1500 US for poseurs? Do you think they have that kind of money? There are millions of used cameras they could achieve that with for next to nothing.

Click to expand...

If they are a social media SNS creator, they have more money then you think.

Besides, once Panasonic milks early adapters (of whom there are many), it will go on sale with ridiculous discounts.

Click to expand...

In Japan, the pricing has been well received with a number of reviews I’ve seen saying it was lower than expected, FWIW.

Click to expand...

I wonder if it is the equivalent of $1500 for us, or has a practical value that's lower. If that's the case then that's good news.