What would be THE things that would make you upgrade (or not) to a Z6III?

MJ_Photo38 said:

Garbage no less :-D

I've been shooting sports and wildlife with my current Z6 with little to no issues. It's not top tier but it's far from garbage imho

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What sports and what wildlife? Is it a pelican cam or a barn swallow cam? Is it a kid's soccer game cam or an indoor low-light basketball cam? To just state “sports and wildlife” leaves an incredibly broad range of challenges and difficulties.

Since you are having no issues with action AF on the Z6, I would love to see, probably in a separate thread, examples of what you are shooting, your hit rates, and a tutorial on your technique. Probably a lot of people could be positively affected and could eliminate their AF-C woes.

To the original topic at hand, I would love better AF for my apparently limited skills, better ibis and low light performance, maybe a built in flash and trigger, other than that, I am really pretty happy with my Z6. Oh, and if they do develop said camera, I would be very willing to buy it……in 5 years .

Not what Nikon wants to hear, I am sure…..

Bob A L said:

Well, surely if they do come out with a Z6(whatever) surely it will have more than 24 mp won't it? That's DX sensor mp land.

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Absolutely not, not for this body. You should look up the Sony A7S III.

Mackiesback said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

Garbage no less :-D

I've been shooting sports and wildlife with my current Z6 with little to no issues. It's not top tier but it's far from garbage imho

Click to expand...

What sports and what wildlife? Is it a pelican cam or a barn swallow cam? Is it a kid's soccer game cam or an indoor low-light basketball cam? To just state “sports and wildlife” leaves an incredibly broad range of challenges and difficulties.

Since you are having no issues with action AF on the Z6, I would love to see, probably in a separate thread, examples of what you are shooting, your hit rates, and a tutorial on your technique. Probably a lot of people could be positively affected and could eliminate their AF-C woes.

To the original topic at hand, I would love better AF for my apparently limited skills, better ibis and low light performance, maybe a built in flash and trigger, other than that, I am really pretty happy with my Z6. Oh, and if they do develop said camera, I would be very willing to buy it……in 5 years .

Not what Nikon wants to hear, I am sure…..

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I had a z6 but also had access to a7iv at work. Shooting side by side the difference is dramatic. I have a Zf now so problem solved but yah there is a large gap in the capabilities. It’s not like I can’t get most shots, it’s that some shots can’t be missed such as live events when I was doing them. Fortunately I’ve moved away from those also for the most part. Now I can do less culling after taking too many shots to make sure I have keepers. I also finally have dual card slots. Shooting paid stuff with a z6 can be stressful even if you didn’t have problems… just knowing their could have been problems is enough.

That is kind of you to describe it as discipline...I'll take it .

I think I'm just behind the times. Got my D750 4 years after it was released, right when the original Z's were launched (to be clear: it was a choice then and I decided to stick with DSLR, for better or worse). If the Z6iii doesn't float my boat, I may grab a D780 (once again, years after release lol). Not to mention I'm still using Adobe Bridge + ACR... :-| . Z6iii with 10 years of technology jump could be pretty amazing though??

Fred Mueller said:

I think this next offering from Nikon is critical for Nikon. I think that’s why it’s late.

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That, and a new sensor. It makes no sense for it to be delayed ("late") this long if they were going to simply reuse the Sony IMX410 (already used in the Z6 / Z6ii / Zf).

Upgrade:

a REALLY good trade in value for a Z50 & a 33mp sensor

Not upgrade:

the expected thing.

MJ_Photo38 said:

I'm currently using a Z6i (one) as my main camera after switching from Fujifilm about 6 months ago. I have tried to hit the limits of what my camera can do but it turns out I have been conditionned by cameras like the X-H1 for sports photography (that are a bit less performant for autofocus) and find myself in a situation where the Z6 is offering me all the things I would want out of a camera. Autofocus is 100% adequate for what I do, image quality is very very good, ergonomics are great, displays (EVF and back panel) are great too, and I don't really aspire at getting new lenses either.

I can comfortably say that I don't need more than what I have.

So that made me ask myself : what would be the improvements that would make me consider a Z6III? And similarly, what are the things that are in current Z6 and 7 cameras that I don't want to see removed?

• Personally I prefer tilt screens over filp out screens, so I'd either prefer to get the same design as the Z6/II or get a similar designa s the Z8 and Z9, but I'm not super thrilled about a flip out design.
• I would like to have internal Log video, and since the Zf has it, I guess the Z6III will have it too. I don't think I would upgrade just for that though, I could get a recorder to get Log video on my current Z6 if I need to. I found that a "faux-Log" profile made by playing with the Flat image profile settings yielded about the same results as the 8-bit F-Log on my previous Fuji cameras.
• faster autofocus would be of no use for me, at least for now. Could be useful, also could not. I was already happy with the X-H1, and the Z6 is a clear step up over that.
• The Zf didn't have any IBIS lock feature, meaning that the sensor is dangling around when the camera is off, and it also means the unit consumes power when you turn off IBIS like when you're on a tripod. My X-H1 had this kind of design and it was pretty annoying when the camera was attached to my backpack strap for hiking. If the Z6III doesn't have that I guess that could be yet another thing that would slow my upgrade process
• faster burst rates without the "slideshow" mode? Right now I'm limited to 5.5fps if I want to track thing correctly, which isn't too bad (it was 6fps on the X-H1, so I'm in known territory) , but I'd definitely like to be able to use my 9 and 12fps settings as well. That would probably be one of the features I'd look towards.
• two cards slots would also be nice, although I don't like having two mis matched cards. I like CF Express Type B cards, but I'd prefer having two UHS-II SDs instead of 1 CFE + 1 SD (best would be 2 CFE but that's reserved for the Z9)

What would be the stuff that you want to see and also don't want to see in order for the Z6III to convince you to upgrade?

(I guess it's also worth noting that I would never buy one brand new, I'd wait at least a few years to get it used)

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You are blessed with a superior immune system enjoyed by only 0.01% of the forum reading population. Immunity to GAS that is. You are happy taking beautiful pictures rather than reading forums and fretting over what you may be missing out on. I wish I had such immunity!

The original Z6 is still a darn nice camera. I still use one alongside my Z9. VF blackout and inferior AF are its only sins. But both are fine for 90% of shooting. Enjoy your Z6 for many years to come!

Mackiesback said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

Garbage no less :-D

I've been shooting sports and wildlife with my current Z6 with little to no issues. It's not top tier but it's far from garbage imho

Click to expand...

What sports and what wildlife? Is it a pelican cam or a barn swallow cam? Is it a kid's soccer game cam or an indoor low-light basketball cam? To just state “sports and wildlife” leaves an incredibly broad range of challenges and difficulties.

Click to expand...

the sports shoots I do : local football (soccer), rally cross events, drift events

wildlife I do : mostly birds, generally in flight too. I also shoot photos of pets sometimes, generally dogs albeit it's less demanding than BIF.

I also shoot airshows when there is one around.

Mackiesback said:

Since you are having no issues with action AF on the Z6, I would love to see, probably in a separate thread, examples of what you are shooting, your hit rates, and a tutorial on your technique. Probably a lot of people could be positively affected and could eliminate their AF-C woes.

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Great idea actually, I was thinking of working on such a thing. In a nutshell, I get my best hitrate by recucing automation as much as possible. Using single point / small zone gives me the best results. Sometimes the tracking box in wide mode can be enough but it tends to get confused the moment the light decreases so I really only use it in very good light. Burst rate wise, if I can go by using the CH (5.5fps) mode, I do. Gives me better tracking accuracy and a little better hitrate as a result. CH(extended) at 9 or 12fps is nice but tends to miss more.

I almost never use the expanded point and large zone mode, I thought they tend to get confused on what they should actually focus on a little too often.

Worth noting that before using the Z6, I was using a Fuji X-H1 and Nikon D700 for those kind of shoots, with both cameras working their best with no automation at all (especially the H1) so it probably gave me a bit more indulgence when it comes to AF systems.

Mackiesback said:

To the original topic at hand, I would love better AF for my apparently limited skills, better ibis and low light performance, maybe a built in flash and trigger, other than that, I am really pretty happy with my Z6. Oh, and if they do develop said camera, I would be very willing to buy it……in 5 years .

Not what Nikon wants to hear, I am sure…..

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Hah, I'm in the same boat. My Z6 does pretty much all the things I want it to do, but if you give me faster AF, better IBIS... I wouldn't spit on it for sure ! The question is do I really have the will to spend the money for a brand new camera? The answer is not really and I would most likely get it when it crosses the 1k€ bar, most likely in 3 to 4 years (if not more, depending on it release price).

A Owens said:

You are blessed with a superior immune system enjoyed by only 0.01% of the forum reading population. Immunity to GAS that is. You are happy taking beautiful pictures rather than reading forums and fretting over what you may be missing out on. I wish I had such immunity!

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I wouldn't jump to conclusions : I still have GAS, but for older cameras (it's less expensive !)

A Owens said:

The original Z6 is still a darn nice camera. I still use one alongside my Z9. VF blackout and inferior AF are its only sins. But both are fine for 90% of shooting. Enjoy your Z6 for many years to come!

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Thanks, that's what I'm planning on doing. Even if the Z6III released tomorrow with all the things I want it to have and without any of the things I don't want it to have (which I doubt) I probably wouldn't buy it anyway because I simplay think it's too much money.

I'd probably wait out until the price comes down, maybe until the Z6IV comes out or something

MJ_Photo38 said:

HRS said:

Batdude said:

They either found out about the specs in the Sony A7V and said “oh shoot we better put more stuff in the Z6III” or maybe they are scared because they (don’t) know what Sony is coming out with and they rather wait to make those final changes. That’s what I think.

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Or, they’ve seen the uproar that has arisen regarding Z AF “problems,” and can’t bring to market another body deficient in that area.

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The Z8 and Zf are deficient?

First time I hear that.

I can understand the complaints about Z6/Z6II/Z7/Z7II autofocus issues (even if I don't agree with them), but if you complain (no no, "uproar"!) about the Z9/Z8/Zf autofocus I think you either have standards way too high or you let the camera do everything for you.

I dunno.

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Heh, I thought only Fujifilm was 'deficient' in the AF section.. kidding, but seriously this is the first I've heard about any notable problems with the Z8/9 AF.

What short time I spent with a Zf showed me a very competent and capable AF system. Coming from an X-H1 I know that makes me an easy grader ;-) but still I wouldn't call Nikon's AF problematic.

hah! I use ACR/PP CC ... It's the same engine ... just no "database" ... prefer that.

I looked hard at the 780 too ... no grip killed it for me ... but its a fantastic cam

Droster said:

kelly15 said:

Are you sure we will ever see a Z6III?

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The $2k full frame market is too hot to not compete in.

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Or not. With the kinds expectations from the Z6 III and how long its been overdue, I feel its not going to be 2k but more closer to the 2699$ mark.

raunak said:

Droster said:

kelly15 said:

Are you sure we will ever see a Z6III?

Click to expand...

The $2k full frame market is too hot to not compete in.

Click to expand...

Or not. With the kinds expectations from the Z6 III and how long its been overdue, I feel its not going to be 2k but more closer to the 2699$ mark.

Click to expand...

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

MJ_Photo38 said:

raunak said:

Droster said:

kelly15 said:

Are you sure we will ever see a Z6III?

Click to expand...

The $2k full frame market is too hot to not compete in.

Click to expand...

Or not. With the kinds expectations from the Z6 III and how long its been overdue, I feel its not going to be 2k but more closer to the 2699$ mark.

Click to expand...

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I have to say that the $1999 price of the Zf enhances its value proposition a lot more than just the retro feels (although they certainly help in my case). When I shot it I really felt like its performance punched above its weight. If the Z6III comes out at two grand, and I'll just assume that has a similar level of sensor tech to match the same processor chip in each, then the comparison will primarily come down to, does a guy prefer dials or PASM? That would be an excellent marketing move for both cameras.

Suntan said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

Suntan said:

Wishful thinking. But I've been reliably informed that the Z8 is too big to fit in any human hand, and weighs far more than any mear mortal could ever hope to lift. So that's probably not an option for most Z6 buyers.

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haha, as much as I like my Z6... I added a plate underneath that adds about 15mm to the height of the camera otherwise I can't fit all of my fingers.

My reference of "perfect" grip in a single grip camera is the D700, and the Z6 with the plate basically feels identical, at half the weight or thereabouts.

The Z8 is basically D700 / D850 sized and I really liked it when I handled one in a store. Few problems that definitely reduced my enthusiasm about the camera : the dials are weirdly cheap feeling (not as good as the rubberized dials on my D700 and MUCH less nice to use than the metal dials on the Z6). Not a deal breaker but I would have expected a $4k camera body to feel a little better than the used Z6 I bought for under 700€.

And second thing is : I didn't know how much I missed the haptic feel of a shutter until I did not have it. The absolute lack of haptic feedback was really a downder for my enjoyment to shoot. THe Z8 is out of my pricepoint anyway, but that definitely tamed my Z8 excitement, which is a shame cause everything else about this camera is perfect, from the size and weight to the screen design and viewfinder !

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The feeling of a non-event caused by the lack of a shutter mechanism (shaking your camera while you are in the process of trying to hold it still) can be rectified by shooting in 20fps mode. The rapid-fire is addicting.

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The culling and editing of all those 20fps bursts, however.. maybe not. Kidding, sort of, because I get the point of how remarkable its for the camera to do that and presumably they're all in focus, too. But that is one area where the X-H1 has spoiled me-it's sumptuous shutter pop. The Zf felt kinda clunky in comparison.

Still though, the lack of shutter haptics and also I shoot under LED lights, a lot, means I'd really rather have a mechanical shutter. They all go from 200,000 to half a million clicks nowadays so I'm not overly concerned about reliability.

Mr Bolton said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

raunak said:

Droster said:

kelly15 said:

Are you sure we will ever see a Z6III?

Click to expand...

The $2k full frame market is too hot to not compete in.

Click to expand...

Or not. With the kinds expectations from the Z6 III and how long its been overdue, I feel its not going to be 2k but more closer to the 2699$ mark.

Click to expand...

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I have to say that the $1999 price of the Zf enhances its value proposition a lot more than just the retro feels (although they certainly help in my case). When I shot it I really felt like its performance punched above its weight. If the Z6III comes out at two grand, and I'll just assume that has a similar level of sensor tech to match the same processor chip in each, then the comparison will primarily come down to, does a guy prefer dials or PASM? That would be an excellent marketing move for both cameras.

Click to expand...

Yup, depends what's the camera that Nikon wants to compete with. At 2499, it would compete with teh A7IV and R6II, at 2k it would compete more with the Lumix S5II.

Nikon has some history of releasing products for cheaper than their competitor, so to me 2k is plausible. But my gut still tells me it will be 2499.

Mr Bolton said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I have to say that the $1999 price of the Zf enhances its value proposition a lot more than just the retro feels (although they certainly help in my case). When I shot it I really felt like its performance punched above its weight. If the Z6III comes out at two grand, and I'll just assume that has a similar level of sensor tech to match the same processor chip in each, then the comparison will primarily come down to, does a guy prefer dials or PASM? That would be an excellent marketing move for both cameras.

Click to expand...

Key thing is that sensor, if they trot out the same unit again - it's not the end of the world - plenty of folks will be happy. But, the Z6 III is likely to be with us for a few years - so hopefully Nikon have not only considered the current competition (i.e. A7IV, R6II) - but also that Sony and Canon are probably refreshing those models this year too...

Obviously they can't look into a crystal ball and see the future, but it feels like sensor-wise, at least, Sony and Canon are already in a bit of a better spot for this sort of model - and both could probably get away with re-using their units again for their next-gen.

The A7IV sensor was new, and although slow - obviously has the higher resolution some craved. The R6II I believe, uses a tweaked version (faster readout) of the R6 sensor and seemed to deliver on improving the already popular R6.

That leaves Nikon with their older sensor, and a hefty decision to make - the big question is, will it be in this release, and at what cost?

MJ_Photo38 said:

Mr Bolton said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

raunak said:

Droster said:

kelly15 said:

Are you sure we will ever see a Z6III?

Click to expand...

The $2k full frame market is too hot to not compete in.

Click to expand...

Or not. With the kinds expectations from the Z6 III and how long its been overdue, I feel its not going to be 2k but more closer to the 2699$ mark.

Click to expand...

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I have to say that the $1999 price of the Zf enhances its value proposition a lot more than just the retro feels (although they certainly help in my case). When I shot it I really felt like its performance punched above its weight. If the Z6III comes out at two grand, and I'll just assume that has a similar level of sensor tech to match the same processor chip in each, then the comparison will primarily come down to, does a guy prefer dials or PASM? That would be an excellent marketing move for both cameras.

Click to expand...

Yup, depends what's the camera that Nikon wants to compete with. At 2499, it would compete with teh A7IV and R6II, at 2k it would compete more with the Lumix S5II.

Nikon has some history of releasing products for cheaper than their competitor, so to me 2k is plausible. But my gut still tells me it will be 2499.

Click to expand...

Fair. I'd take a two grand camera that competes with the A7IV.. and if not, the S5II is also a worthy adversary. I've considered it as well in my musings about going full frame when Fuji bodies are into the same price brackets nowadays.

nightowlnz said:

Mr Bolton said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I have to say that the $1999 price of the Zf enhances its value proposition a lot more than just the retro feels (although they certainly help in my case). When I shot it I really felt like its performance punched above its weight. If the Z6III comes out at two grand, and I'll just assume that has a similar level of sensor tech to match the same processor chip in each, then the comparison will primarily come down to, does a guy prefer dials or PASM? That would be an excellent marketing move for both cameras.

Click to expand...

Key thing is that sensor, if they trot out the same unit again - it's not the end of the world - plenty of folks will be happy. But, the Z6 III is likely to be with us for a few years - so hopefully Nikon have not only considered the current competition (i.e. A7IV, R6II) - but also that Sony and Canon are probably refreshing those models this year too...

Obviously they can't look into a crystal ball and see the future, but it feels like sensor-wise, at least, Sony and Canon are already in a bit of a better spot for this sort of model - and both could probably get away with re-using their units again for their next-gen.

The A7IV sensor was new, and although slow - obviously has the higher resolution some craved. The R6II I believe, uses a tweaked version (faster readout) of the R6 sensor and seemed to deliver on improving the already popular R6.

That leaves Nikon with their older sensor, and a hefty decision to make - the big question is, will it be in this release, and at what cost?

Click to expand...

If they do, the cost will be considerable damage to Nikon’s image. It will also cost Nikon sales. I know I am not alone in refusing to buy a new camera I’ll keep at least 4-5 years that uses a 6+ year old sensor.

I think “if they trot out the same unit again” it will be an epic fail. Nikon has delayed the Z6iii deliberately for as yet unknown reasons (unknown to the public). One thing that the delay has done is to create a rather large pent up demand as well as increased expectations. One such expectation is that it will not be a Zf in a modern package. I firmly believe that trotting out the same old Sony IMX410 guarantees that pent up expectations will not be met.

It will not be a good look for Nikon to “trot out” the six+ year old Sony IMX410 that was used in the Z6, Z6ii, and the Zf. The Z6iii needs to continue Nikon’s innovation as seen in the Z9 and Z8. Indeed, Nikon has publicly stated that they intend to deploy Z9 technology down the lineup.

msu79gt82 said:

nightowlnz said:

Mr Bolton said:

MJ_Photo38 said:

My gut feeling was that Nikon will try to match the price of its current competitors : so 2499, just like the R6II and A7IV.

Click to expand...

Maybe, but I have to say that the $1999 price of the Zf enhances its value proposition a lot more than just the retro feels (although they certainly help in my case). When I shot it I really felt like its performance punched above its weight. If the Z6III comes out at two grand, and I'll just assume that has a similar level of sensor tech to match the same processor chip in each, then the comparison will primarily come down to, does a guy prefer dials or PASM? That would be an excellent marketing move for both cameras.

Click to expand...

Key thing is that sensor, if they trot out the same unit again - it's not the end of the world - plenty of folks will be happy. But, the Z6 III is likely to be with us for a few years - so hopefully Nikon have not only considered the current competition (i.e. A7IV, R6II) - but also that Sony and Canon are probably refreshing those models this year too...

Obviously they can't look into a crystal ball and see the future, but it feels like sensor-wise, at least, Sony and Canon are already in a bit of a better spot for this sort of model - and both could probably get away with re-using their units again for their next-gen.

The A7IV sensor was new, and although slow - obviously has the higher resolution some craved. The R6II I believe, uses a tweaked version (faster readout) of the R6 sensor and seemed to deliver on improving the already popular R6.

That leaves Nikon with their older sensor, and a hefty decision to make - the big question is, will it be in this release, and at what cost?

Click to expand...

If they do, the cost will be considerable damage to Nikon’s image. It will also cost Nikon sales. I know I am not alone in refusing to buy a new camera I’ll keep at least 4-5 years that uses a 6+ year old sensor.

I think “if they trot out the same unit again” it will be an epic fail. Nikon has delayed the Z6iii deliberately for as yet unknown reasons (unknown to the public). One thing that the delay has done is to create a rather large pent up demand as well as increased expectations. One such expectation is that it will not be a Zf in a modern package. I firmly believe that trotting out the same old Sony IMX410 guarantees that pent up expectations will not be met.

It will not be a good look for Nikon to “trot out” the six+ year old Sony IMX410 that was used in the Z6, Z6ii, and the Zf. The Z6iii needs to continue Nikon’s innovation as seen in the Z9 and Z8. Indeed, Nikon has publicly stated that they intend to deploy Z9 technology down the lineup.

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When you put it that way, yes it would seem that Nikon better step up with at least a newer BSI if not stacked sensor. I mean, I'm still shooting 2016 Fuji sensor tech and its images look great, so at this point it isn't really a question of image quality or dynamic range (the X-H1 punches real close to X-T4 here, if not in speed or PDAF area) but in readout speed for video and e-shutter. I do hope they retain the mechanical one, however.

I don't care about the most assuredly formidable video specs the Z6 III will have, but lots of folks will. Hey you never know, maybe I'll take more of a liking to video with all that power on tap.

So I agree that the Z6III should probably have a newer, faster readout sensor. I wouldn't care, but most will.