I've about had it with Nikon's VR

Dinosaur dave said:

Roy Kikuta said:

Rodenmg said:

Roy Kikuta said:

TheSoaringSprite said:

I'm wondering if this is a PF lens thing. I don't own any PF lenses, but I've seen others complain about a similar issue. I've never seen this with any of my Nikon telephoto lenses, but they are not PF.

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I don't believe this is limited to PF lenses - I've got an example shot with my old f-mount 500mmf/4 VR AF-S that shows the same busy double-line bokeh. I believe I've seen the same with the 200-500 f/5.6 VR lens on a D810/D500 as well. Also the same experience with my Z 400 f/4.5... I've got to say that my "awareness" of these types of busy bokehs has been growing over the last 5-10 years.

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I respect others experience and opinions but I have hundreds of photos with the 400 f4.5 I could post and none of them, even with the TC1.4, show terrible bokeh like this.

Show me yours and I’ll show you mine. lol.

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The following are examples of the double-line bokeh taken with the Z 400 f/4.5. They're not artistic nor technically good - just examples I could find quickly.







Images above were all taken with the Z 400 f/4.5, mostly on a Z9. Some busy bokehs are obvious, others you may need to examine under more magnification. Your shooting experience and situation are undoubtedly different than mine - but this is my experience... the busy bokeh seems to affect many long lenses, PF or otherwise, and includes the Z 400 f/4.5.

[Edit: I had to edit out one photo - it was not shot with the 400f4.5.]

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All these images are suffering from atmospheric air disturbance ...... none are sharp and the bokeh is poor because of it .....

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I think I'm seeing artifacts in the bokeh (makes my eyes hurt), possibly from the VR.



--
Ernie Misner
"The best photographer is the one who has the most fun!" - Jason Bradley, Outdoor Photographer Magazine

michaeladawson said:

I don't examine many photos from other brands. So I don't know if they do the same thing. But I am coming close to throwing in the towel on Nikon's VR. This has been going on for many years. I'm talking about Nikon's nervous double and triple ghosting of background elements.

Here's my latest example of this. Shot with the Z8 and 800mm f/6.3. VR is in sport mode. The Z8 is on a monopod. This is a crop to turn this from the original landscape to a portrait orientation. Otherwise it's close to full size.

That long stripe of mangled VR work on the left size mostly relegates this photo to the garbage heap. There's other spots in the photo where Nikon's VR work is evident.

I am just getting tired of just about all telephoto shots that have grasses or reeds exhibiting these VR artifacts.

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Hello Mike I was able to reproduce the effect involuntarily.

I offer here the Original and a cut of it.


In the background at 3.5 mt from the subject,
there is a mesh fence + some rose branches





SOOC Image from camera Jpeg - ZF in Dx Mode - 10MP @450mmEq






Crop 80% and cut from the original







--
___.............................!............................ ___
-------- Mid of French/Italian Alps --------- I Love my Carnivores. >https://eu.zonerama.com/AlainCH2/1191151
.
Photography ... It is about how that thing looks when photographed..
( Avoid boring shots )

Just send me your Nikon's and lenses, and I'll take care of them. Then you can buy whatever brand you want.

Suntan said:

Rodenmg said:

Roy Kikuta said:

TheSoaringSprite said:

I'm wondering if this is a PF lens thing. I don't own any PF lenses, but I've seen others complain about a similar issue. I've never seen this with any of my Nikon telephoto lenses, but they are not PF.

Click to expand...

I don't believe this is limited to PF lenses - I've got an example shot with my old f-mount 500mmf/4 VR AF-S that shows the same busy double-line bokeh. I believe I've seen the same with the 200-500 f/5.6 VR lens on a D810/D500 as well. Also the same experience with my Z 400 f/4.5... I've got to say that my "awareness" of these types of busy bokehs has been growing over the last 5-10 years.

Click to expand...

I respect others experience and opinions but I have hundreds of photos with the 400 f4.5 I could post and none of them, even with the TC1.4, show terrible bokeh like this.

Show me yours and I’ll show you mine. lol.

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You and me both. I've never seen anything like this with the 400 4.5 either, or the 70-200 if that counts as long enough. And I keep my VR on sport mode almost always.

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Yep, same here. I just shot my latest wedding last Saturday night. Using 70-200 VR lens and I have no bad bokeh/artifacts like that in any of my pictures. Maybe it's the OP's lens/body, combo? Weird.

Bob A L said:

Just send me your Nikon's and lenses, and I'll take care of them. Then you can buy whatever brand you want.

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Apparently you didn’t read all the posts to see what the outcome of this was. You won’t be getting my camera or lenses.

and, you're shooting wide-open for that lens at 800mm, where your focus plane depth .is greater,effectively "pulling in" an overly bright background, and not enough separation from subject to background. Also, try 1/2000 SS..

--
Veni, Vidi, Velcro;
I came,,,, I saw,,,, I stuck around.

In lens VR and IBIS is constantly improving.

Thom Hogan in his 2023 advice on using VR concludes

"The very small amount of edge aliasing I see at high shutter speeds isn't worth pursuing if I can't frame well. Thus, I no longer turn VR off at high shutter speeds."

To a large extent if a scene has a "messy" foreground or background - any decent camera records the foreground or background as "messy".

While the negative appearance of a messy background can be reduced with post processing, some (including me) take the view avoiding subjects with messy backgrounds results in more pleasing photographs.

I find sometimes good photography can be easier when I keep it simple - by avoid messy backgrounds. I find this especially relevant in lighting that emphasises how messy some backgrounds actually are.

Leonard Shepherd said:

In lens VR and IBIS is constantly improving.

Thom Hogan in his 2023 advice on using VR concludes

"The very small amount of edge aliasing I see at high shutter speeds isn't worth pursuing if I can't frame well. Thus, I no longer turn VR off at high shutter speeds."

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What do you do now with your Z system lenses, turn VR off at high shutter speeds, or leave it on? I usually forget and leave it on.

Leonard Shepherd said:

To a large extent if a scene has a "messy" foreground or background - any decent camera records the foreground or background as "messy".

While the negative appearance of a messy background can be reduced with post processing, some (including me) take the view avoiding subjects with messy backgrounds results in more pleasing photographs.

I find sometimes good photography can be easier when I keep it simple - by avoid messy backgrounds. I find this especially relevant in lighting that emphasises how messy some backgrounds actually are.

Click to expand...

Ernie Misner said:

Leonard Shepherd said:

In lens VR and IBIS is constantly improving.

Thom Hogan in his 2023 advice on using VR concludes

"The very small amount of edge aliasing I see at high shutter speeds isn't worth pursuing if I can't frame well. Thus, I no longer turn VR off at high shutter speeds."

Click to expand...

What do you do now with your Z system lenses, turn VR off at high shutter speeds, or leave it on? I usually forget and leave it on.

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It depends.

On a very stable tripod for a static landscape some shots on and some shots off - with buffeting from side wind a factor.

For hand holding VR generally on.

Bobby2Shots said:

VR should always be "off" when shooting on tripod, monopod.and, you're shooting wide-open for that lens at 800mm, where your focus plane depth .is greater,effectively "pulling in" an overly bright background, and not enough separation from subject to background.

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That used to be true with much older Nikon VR systems. Not really the case now with the latest advancement in VR tech and newer features. Often nice to just see what you get with it on then off in different scenarios