The people that will buy the Walmart R100's are like the phone only photographers that ask me on a regular basis, how do you get those (insert subject, birds, deer, etc) mostly telephoto photos? What do I need to get beyond what my phone camera can do. Their phone camera serves them well for much of their photo needs, but it's the other stuff that they yearn to try.
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Competition making it tougher on Nikon all the time.
- Thread starter Bob A L
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Thanks, and agree. Only one thing comes to mind though. I actually do see people starting out on the likes of a Z8 or Z9, as there is a segment of today's society that money does not mean anything to, and they freely go out and drop big dollars simply because someone told them that this was the best out there. Unfortunately, they then find out that they actually need to know how to use it though, but that didn't enter into the decision to buy, only that it was supposed to be the best, and I must have the best. And they knew that their $150,000 vehicle was as easy to drive as their Chevrolet Bel Aire. But then the sad part is that many of these folks also have no idea how bad many common folk working two or three jobs are struggling to even be able to consider $397 for a camera or how to pay the light bill every month.
LTheWafflePWN
Senior Member
Well, that's the thing. If they asked me the same thing and said they just bought an R100 kit, I'd be blunt and tell them to return it.
The R100 has no AF joystick, all the controls are crammed into the space where one would want to change focus (good luck not messing something up accidentally as a complete beginner), only one dial awkwardly placed near the shutter release, you can't even change the focus point via the screen because it isn't a touch screen, and the screen doesn't come out for selfies or video... I'm going to tell them that they made a poor choice in a beginner's camera, because it's harder to make it work than other, better options. The R50 is a slightly better choice, but the real beginner camera they would want is probably an R10.
I don't think that the R100, specifically, will build Canon any long lasting loyalty because I can only imagine the people who buy those will be so frustrated trying to get the results they want (and that you are getting asked about regularly) that they'll quit trying to use a dedicated camera all together.
M
Make Photography Great Again
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kind of a random post. this isn't 2008 when people are eating up kit lenses from their local store. Canon might have assessed an easy market opportunity, but make no mistake, that market is dying (already mostly dead), and people who buy that kind of thing are extremely unlikely to convert to future sales (hence buying something cheap to begin with). those R100s will collect dust for 360+ days of the year.
You can put a $5,000 lens on a $397 R100 if you wanted to.
But you won't.
For all those reasons I listed. Including the fact that you are spending $397 on a camera+lens kit because you don't have $5000 to spend on a lens that you probably don't even know you'd need. Because you're a beginner and are learning this stuff.
"You" in this case being almost all of those beginners you were referencing in the original post.
I agree that the Zfc should be considered a relaunched Z50, but in no way did it fix the Z50! In my opinion calling the Z6ii/Z7ii minimally updated is at best true and at worst an overstatement. In essence they were a fix.
Nikon assuredly has a long list of cameras that needs to be updated, but just how long does it take? It's been six years without a proper update to the Z6. Just how long can any manufacturer ignore the middle class w/o falling into a niche status? In my opinion Nikon is in danger of niche status catering to the high-end and retro market only.
Yep. I'd be very interested in a Z50ii with Expeed7, improved AF, and IBIS.
Oh, yes please Nikon.
I'm in that rare position where I'm not actively looking to buy another camera. The z8 is doing stellar work - it's great for wildlife, for sports, for airshows, for landscapes, and it really does help to get the best out of the Z glass. I might consider a z8ii when it eventually appears, but if that's another 3-4 years away then that's fine by me.
The zfc has surprised me at how good it is as a carry about/travel camera, and although few in number, I think the z dx lenses are really good.
I don't think Nikon is under pressure as much as they were prior to the z9/z8 and zf.
In fact, there's only two cameras they could release that might pique my interest - a compact "coolpix z" (dx or ff fixed lens compact - retro or otherwise), or a z70 dx body with faster processor and better af for wildlife/sports.
The zfc has surprised me at how good it is as a carry about/travel camera, and although few in number, I think the z dx lenses are really good.
I don't think Nikon is under pressure as much as they were prior to the z9/z8 and zf.
In fact, there's only two cameras they could release that might pique my interest - a compact "coolpix z" (dx or ff fixed lens compact - retro or otherwise), or a z70 dx body with faster processor and better af for wildlife/sports.
Another two years at least. We have three bodies a year maximum and the quickest without any delays. Two bodies a year is the norm, I've done this list before. Going from the top down:
We have
Z9
Z8
Zf
We're missing
Z7iii
Z6iii
Z5ii
(maybe) Z70
Z50ii
Z30ii
Six bodies means three years using a normal timeline. Maybe they can hasten things up by (temporarily) dropping lines like the Z7iii or continue to pretend the high end DX doesn't exist. Four bodies is doable in two years.
We're here today because it took them forever to cough out EXPEED7 with the Z9. And it also took them another forever to cough out the Z8. The Zf came out in the same year as the Z8 so at least there's an acceleration.
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Felipe Ortega
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I've always used lenses that are worth more than my camera bodies when that choice existed. But my beginning era was way back in the 60's when there were local camera shops that had used lenses, traded equipment and things were quite different.
"Competition making it tougher on Nikon all the time."
With Nikon going to last year's and this year's Consumer Electronic Show and focusing on non-Consumer business; title needs a different look.
Is it a case of Nikon (corp) making it tougher on Nikon (camera division)?
With Nikon going to last year's and this year's Consumer Electronic Show and focusing on non-Consumer business; title needs a different look.
Is it a case of Nikon (corp) making it tougher on Nikon (camera division)?
Good point - quite possible
But there really is no discussion because Nikon isn't trying to even cater to the general consumer market.
The closest cameras that Nikon offer are the Z30 and Z50/Zfc thus they have become pertentent to this discussion.
From people who read or watch reviews and understand specifications like "touch screen."
"Kids these days" aren't spending $400 on a camera just because it's the cheapest one on the shelf. They already own a decent camera (their phone) and they will do some research before purchasing an upgrade.
Maybe their grandparents will buy an R100 kit for them on the "oh hey, a cheap kit from a brand I know, what a nice graduation present" theory, but thanks to the magic of gift receipts, young adults are just not walking around with cheap Canons today.
Fewer than 8 million cameras are sold each year, worldwide. There are not a lot of people buying any sort of stand-alone camera, so there is no mass market for a "mass market ILC." It doesn't exist. That's not the level of gear aspiring photographers are looking at to get their start.
From reading spec sheets and reviews and watching review videos on the device that has their starter camera - their smartphone.
Everyone who wants to buy an ILC already owns a good compact camera and that compact camera is attached to a powerful computer that can bring reviews of other cameras into the palm of their hand. They're not going to drop $400 to "get started" with a lousy cheap ILC because they're not "getting started." They're upgrading when they buy their first ILC, so they're going to do their homework and they're willing to spend more than bargain-basement prices.
Anecdotally, in my city, Sony A6X00 series is winning young hobbyists, but Fuji and the Zfc both have a real presence, too, and I spot the occasional Olympus/OM.
greenmanphoto
Senior Member
Shuncheung,
I still have one of those D300 bodies, along with a D700, though neither sees much, if any, use these days. GREAT cameras, those two!
Sam
I still have one of those D300 bodies, along with a D700, though neither sees much, if any, use these days. GREAT cameras, those two!
Sam
ericbowles
Senior Member
One of Nikon's key strategies is to reuse and replication. They want to take components, software, and concepts and deliver them across multiple cameras. It reduces cost, increases the value of R&D, and expands usability of the entire lineup. But the challenge, is releasing new cameras and capabilities quickly enough. As you point out, there are at least 6-7 different market subsegments and releasing a new camera every 6-9 months is not fast enough for a rapidly changing market. The Z9/Z8 with the firmware updates has come close by extending innovation for existing cameras and creating a longer lifecycle.
I don't think the ZFC was ever intended to "fix" the Z50 - it was simply repackaging the Z50 as something different for an adjacent market. The Z30 did that in a similar manner for video and vloggers.
The Z6ii/Z7ii was not very meaningful in terms of performance, but there were a few key features that did provide meaningful improvements over the Z6/Z7. They probably realized dual cards was a requirement and fixed tht issue. They also needed faster processor speed, and the dual EXPEED 6 processors were probably a band-aid to address speed limitations with existing functions.
I do think it made sense to start the EXPEED 7 rollout at the top end. It also is a prerequisite for subject detection enhancements that have taken time to develop. I don't think faster deployment of cameras without the improvements in subject detection is appropriate, so the route taken was a necessary but unfortunate delay.
But now, Nikon is at the point where EXPEED 7 and subject detection can be deployed in new cameras so there is clear room for 2-3 new cameras in the next year. I have not seen any new technologies that are game changing - just incremental enhancements of existing technologies. Global shutter might be useful at the Z9ii level, but it's not critical for the under $3000 cameras.
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