HEIF 48 vs 24jpeg

I was following along nicely until I got to your final paragraph. Which “image processor” are you talking about here. In my experience the ProRaw files edited in RAW Power, for example, are easily as “richly colorful” as the corresponding HEICs and much more malleable. Have I missed your point? Thanks.

eriepa said:

I was following along nicely until I got to your final paragraph. Which “image processor” are you talking about here. In my experience the ProRaw files edited in RAW Power, for example, are easily as “richly colorful” as the corresponding HEICs and much more malleable. Have I missed your point? Thanks.

Click to expand...

The HEIF/HEIC files are processed via layering data in a way that JPEG and TIF/TIFF files are not. The Apple iPhone's image processor cranks out HEIF files that are processed to be more vibrant, colorful and richer in DR - presumably to display them in the best way possible when viewed on an iPhone/iPad/MacBook etc. The HEIF files (from memory) are still HDR files and this results in more than one layer of image data, just like the way HDR files are typically produced by compositing three or more images together.
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There's room for error in my interpretation. I'd spend more time researching it but I've just gotten out of the ICU for snake bite and can't see properly or concentrate as well as usual. Incidentally, I was literally testing out my iPhone 15 Pro Max with ProMax file formats when I was bitten. I think there should be a few Q & A pages on the Apple forums on this subject.

Marco Nero said:

eriepa said:

I was following along nicely until I got to your final paragraph. Which “image processor” are you talking about here. In my experience the ProRaw files edited in RAW Power, for example, are easily as “richly colorful” as the corresponding HEICs and much more malleable. Have I missed your point? Thanks.

Click to expand...

The HEIF/HEIC files are processed via layering data in a way that JPEG and TIF/TIFF files are not. The Apple iPhone's image processor cranks out HEIF files that are processed to be more vibrant, colorful and richer in DR - presumably to display them in the best way possible when viewed on an iPhone/iPad/MacBook etc. The HEIF files (from memory) are still HDR files and this results in more than one layer of image data, just like the way HDR files are typically produced by compositing three or more images together.
.
There's room for error in my interpretation. I'd spend more time researching it but I've just gotten out of the ICU for snake bite and can't see properly or concentrate as well as usual. Incidentally, I was literally testing out my iPhone 15 Pro Max with ProMax file formats when I was bitten. I think there should be a few Q & A pages on the Apple forums on this subject.

Click to expand...

I’m glad you survived the snake bite. Hopefully you’re on your way to a full recovery.

Howard

Marco - hope you feel better soon. No biggie, this - it can wait. Cheers.

WoodWorks said:

You can also hold your finger on any of the camera icons and then swipe left or right to access the zoom slider. But doing that delivers sub-optimal images, so I never use that feature.

Click to expand...

I disagree with this, at least for a 15 pro and the tele module. See my post :


May be the pro max does not behave like this ?

BTW, nice pictures

0lf said:

WoodWorks said:

You can also hold your finger on any of the camera icons and then swipe left or right to access the zoom slider. But doing that delivers sub-optimal images, so I never use that feature.

Click to expand...

I disagree with this, at least for a 15 pro and the tele module. See my post :

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4741346

May be the pro max does not behave like this ?

BTW, nice pictures

Click to expand...

Thanks, 0lf.

But when I look at those samples, I see significant degradation in detail as you zoom past 3x. The features of the clouds disappear, for example. And much of the detail is simply gone. So yes, I would consider those "zoomed" images sub-optimal.

But then, I'm not one of the photographers here who considers the output of the default processing generally over-sharpened or too contrasty. Perhaps it's just a matter of differences in taste.

WoodWorks said:

0lf said:

WoodWorks said:

You can also hold your finger on any of the camera icons and then swipe left or right to access the zoom slider. But doing that delivers sub-optimal images, so I never use that feature.

Click to expand...

I disagree with this, at least for a 15 pro and the tele module. See my post :

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4741346

May be the pro max does not behave like this ?

BTW, nice pictures

Click to expand...

Thanks, 0lf.

But when I look at those samples, I see significant degradation in detail as you zoom past 3x. The features of the clouds disappear, for example. And much of the detail is simply gone. So yes, I would consider those "zoomed" images sub-optimal.

But then, I'm not one of the photographers here who considers the output of the default processing generally over-sharpened or too contrasty. Perhaps it's just a matter of differences in taste.

Click to expand...

about the clouds, most of the difference is due to wind. There is also some change in light because the shadow of the clouds were moving. Basically I see the same level of detail in the whole series, with just a change in sharpening.

I too generally like how the iPhone process the pictures, and I do not find the results at 3x to look oversharpened. But at 4.9x the iPhone basically just magnifies the existing sharpening halos and it becomes to much. From 5x I find the sharpening is improved, but obviously YMMV.

Is the general consensus that the newer iPhones are getting better at achieving a more natural rendering?

I’m still using an 11 Pro. I like being able to manually turn off the HDR via button, and I keep this off most of the time. I find the HDR images way over-processed … too sharp and colourful. Someone else here mentioned that awful glow around powerlines, etc. seems to be gone. The other thing that looks horrible on my phone are the occasional fake looking clouds when shooting HEIC. It’s like the AI just redrew the cloud.

xb70fan said:

Is the general consensus that the newer iPhones are getting better at achieving a more natural rendering?

I’m still using an 11 Pro. I like being able to manually turn off the HDR via button, and I keep this off most of the time. I find the HDR images way over-processed … too sharp and colourful. Someone else here mentioned that awful glow around powerlines, etc. seems to be gone. The other thing that looks horrible on my phone are the occasional fake looking clouds when shooting HEIC. It’s like the AI just redrew the cloud.

Click to expand...

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iPhone 13 Pro Max - Blown out colors. This was after heavy editing.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - Note the unrealistic sky and color values.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - looking a little offworldly here.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - shot in RAW to avoid blowing out highlights.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - shot in RAW.

.
NOTE: Images ABOVE are from the older iPhone 13 Pro Max...
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I actually shoot random clouds with my iPhone 15 Pro Max. Here's a few that were taken recently. I find the clouds look quite natural with the iPhone 15. My older iPhone 13 Pro Max would produce some rather odd looking results with clouds and I was often forced to use Pro RAW when photographing clouds with a lot of contrast, but not any more. I'm finding that the rendering of clouds in particular is more refined and eye-accurate. You can always dial up the contrast and selectively edit the details etc when editing.
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The images below, all of which are from the iPhone 15 Pro Max, are all taken in Max HEIF and then converted to JPEG later. These images are therefore automatically HDR inclusive and yet the HDR is much more subtle and much more controlled. There's no bizarre events occurring and the clouds and skies have a more natural looking dynamic range applied. In fact I've bumped the colors up on a few of these when editing, just to make them look a little more vibrant. It's interesting to get these results without the use of a Circular Polarizing filter too.
.
IMAGES BELOW are from the newer iPhone 15 Pro Max...
.


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max - no blown out highlights. Color-accurate capture as well.


iPhone 15 Pro Max - Note the integrity of the sky.


iPhone 15 Pro Max - Good, accurate color without artifacts near high contrast zones.

--
Regards,
Marco Nero.

Marco Nero said:

xb70fan said:

Is the general consensus that the newer iPhones are getting better at achieving a more natural rendering?

I’m still using an 11 Pro. I like being able to manually turn off the HDR via button, and I keep this off most of the time. I find the HDR images way over-processed … too sharp and colourful. Someone else here mentioned that awful glow around powerlines, etc. seems to be gone. The other thing that looks horrible on my phone are the occasional fake looking clouds when shooting HEIC. It’s like the AI just redrew the cloud.

Click to expand...

.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - Blown out colors. This was after heavy editing.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - Note the unrealistic sky and color values.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - looking a little offworldly here.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - shot in RAW to avoid blowing out highlights.


iPhone 13 Pro Max - shot in RAW.

.
NOTE: Images ABOVE are from the older iPhone 13 Pro Max...
.
I actually shoot random clouds with my iPhone 15 Pro Max. Here's a few that were taken recently. I find the clouds look quite natural with the iPhone 15. My older iPhone 13 Pro Max would produce some rather odd looking results with clouds and I was often forced to use Pro RAW when photographing clouds with a lot of contrast, but not any more. I'm finding that the rendering of clouds in particular is more refined and eye-accurate. You can always dial up the contrast and selectively edit the details etc when editing.
.
The images below, all of which are from the iPhone 15 Pro Max, are all taken in Max HEIF and then converted to JPEG later. These images are therefore automatically HDR inclusive and yet the HDR is much more subtle and much more controlled. There's no bizarre events occurring and the clouds and skies have a more natural looking dynamic range applied. In fact I've bumped the colors up on a few of these when editing, just to make them look a little more vibrant. It's interesting to get these results without the use of a Circular Polarizing filter too.
.
IMAGES BELOW are from the newer iPhone 15 Pro Max...
.


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max - no blown out highlights. Color-accurate capture as well.


iPhone 15 Pro Max - Note the integrity of the sky.


iPhone 15 Pro Max - Good, accurate color without artifacts near high contrast zones.

Click to expand...

Appreciate this. Thx.

Your sky shot with the Mazda is indicative of my frustrations with the 11 Pro. That awful glow between the horizon and sky. I’ve had to resort to RAW (Halide, usually) as I could never be certain what the phone would do.

I hadn’t really been following the newer iPhone developments. I always just wanted a less uncanny-valley HEIF format. HEIF Max look pretty sweet.



--
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada

xb70fan said:

Appreciate this. Thx.

Your sky shot with the Mazda is indicative of my frustrations with the 11 Pro. That awful glow between the horizon and sky. I’ve had to resort to RAW (Halide, usually) as I could never be certain what the phone would do.

I hadn’t really been following the newer iPhone developments. I always just wanted a less uncanny-valley HEIF format. HEIF Max look pretty sweet.

Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. I've been shooting locally and also took my iPhone 15 Pro Max with me on an overseas trip recently and after taking (literally) thousands of pictures with it the image quality is virtually on par with my APS-C cameras. So much so that I no longer carry my APS-C cameras with me any more. It doesn't replace my Full Frame cameras with higher-end lenses but it's just fantastic for day-to-day photography. The best thing I like is that these days I don't need a tripod when shooting at night or in low light. Panoramas are also (generally) better and easier to produce. And the fake bokeh (defocus) is much closer to that of a DSLR. Often it works very nicely.
.
But the Dynamic Range is better and less aggressive and this results in pictures looking more natural, even in shots where typically the highlights would blow out. Once in a while you might need to tweak something in Photoshop but most of the time you don't. There's a shot below of one of my cats (taken about a day ago) sitting in sunlight and I can still make out the texture on the wall. This would have been blown out on previous iPhones and even my APS-C cameras would have struggled with the exposure. I'm going to put this down to a better HDR processing method. The reason it's remarkable is because it's so subtle that it's not even obvious. The addition of a usable zoom 120mm lens is also a major benefit (no examples of that here though).
.


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max



--
Regards,
Marco Nero.

Marco Nero said:

xb70fan said:

Appreciate this. Thx.

Your sky shot with the Mazda is indicative of my frustrations with the 11 Pro. That awful glow between the horizon and sky. I’ve had to resort to RAW (Halide, usually) as I could never be certain what the phone would do.

I hadn’t really been following the newer iPhone developments. I always just wanted a less uncanny-valley HEIF format. HEIF Max look pretty sweet.

Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. I've been shooting locally and also took my iPhone 15 Pro Max with me on an overseas trip recently and after taking (literally) thousands of pictures with it the image quality is virtually on par with my APS-C cameras. So much so that I no longer carry my APS-C cameras with me any more. It doesn't replace my Full Frame cameras with higher-end lenses but it's just fantastic for day-to-day photography. The best thing I like is that these days I don't need a tripod when shooting at night or in low light. Panoramas are also (generally) better and easier to produce. And the fake bokeh (defocus) is much closer to that of a DSLR. Often it works very nicely.
.
But the Dynamic Range is better and less aggressive and this results in pictures looking more natural, even in shots where typically the highlights would blow out. Once in a while you might need to tweak something in Photoshop but most of the time you don't. There's a shot below of one of my cats (taken about a day ago) sitting in sunlight and I can still make out the texture on the wall. This would have been blown out on previous iPhones and even my APS-C cameras would have struggled with the exposure. I'm going to put this down to a better HDR processing method. The reason it's remarkable is because it's so subtle that it's not even obvious. The addition of a usable zoom 120mm lens is also a major benefit (no examples of that here though).
.


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max


iPhone 15 Pro Max

Click to expand...

My days of lugging around a kit are long gone. Now it’s just a Ricoh GRlllx. There are simply times when even my “old” 11 Pro will do a better job with exposure.

Your dessert shot I would have had to do with my Ricoh. The 11 Pro would not know what to do with that. I really like the Ricoh, but one less device to manage would be nice.

--
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada