I will be curious to learn how the Z8 does in low light / high ISO situations (as compared to the Z6II and Z7II) ? Although the Z7II was close - I still perceived the Z6II as being better in producing the cleanest low light / High ISO images ... Perhaps with the newer Z8 we might see improvement over the Z7II for low light / high ISO images which produce less noise and cleaner images equal to or better than the Z6II produces in low light / high ISO situations ?
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ghostfox_1
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If you downsize the z9 or z7 to the Z6 size, you won't see an appreciable noise difference.
But you will see also see a much bigger file size with no appreciable difference and then have to downsize it. The Z6 is very efficient.
Boosted ISO ranges come with the cost of some dynamic range. Gerald Undone did a great video on this recently. The Z8, with it's stacked sensor, seems to be more of a sports solution. It does have -7EV focusing sensitivity, which is one better than the Z6II's -EV rating. Not to mention NoiseAI software making up any further differences.
You have the Z9 as the ultimate Nikon Astro rig. If you sold a Z7II for $2,000 (before ebay fees btw,) and got a Z8, it would be a $2,200 (with tax) upgrade plus a few accessories.
The Z8 would have appealed to me more if it was the size of a II, still had the pro button layout, was 33mp, had a fully articulating screen, and was $3,000. I don't think the LCD even rotates down 90 degrees, as I often need for shooting overhead in crowds.
I'd give up the stacked sensor, as I didn't have any trouble shooting jets with the Z7II. I'd love the Z8 in hand, but not all day, and it no longer fits in my smaller primary bags. They stretched a bit for the Z7II with the 24-120F4S as it was.
What's next Nikon?!
You have the Z9 as the ultimate Nikon Astro rig. If you sold a Z7II for $2,000 (before ebay fees btw,) and got a Z8, it would be a $2,200 (with tax) upgrade plus a few accessories.
The Z8 would have appealed to me more if it was the size of a II, still had the pro button layout, was 33mp, had a fully articulating screen, and was $3,000. I don't think the LCD even rotates down 90 degrees, as I often need for shooting overhead in crowds.
I'd give up the stacked sensor, as I didn't have any trouble shooting jets with the Z7II. I'd love the Z8 in hand, but not all day, and it no longer fits in my smaller primary bags. They stretched a bit for the Z7II with the 24-120F4S as it was.
What's next Nikon?!
ghostfox_1
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But in good light you get higher res images with great quality. There's no free lunch.
areallygrumpyoldsod
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It really depends on what you mean and are seeking to shoot at what settings. AND what output you are needing to produce.
The Z9/Z8 have more tools -- not least Starlight modes -- than previous models to help in very low light.
As others have said extreme Astro and ultra long exposures are simple on a Z9 and therefore also on a Z8.
AND everything is relative -- I used to shoot a D5, D6, D850 and D500 -- these were OK (better than OK) however they had a big drawback -- one could not see in the dark. With the Z9 In can boost the EVF brightness to lighten what I am trying to focus on, this helps when trying to shoot lion action in the Maasai Mara.
Then we have the challenges that school and college sports shooters have in Maryland (where the lights are terrible, when compared to those in Northern VA) -- here one simply has to accept that to achieve control of movement blur and adequate DOF one will be shooting with fairly high ISOs 10,000+ at times.
There are lots of Z9 posts on this subject -- I would look at those if I was you. Since none of us have production version of the Z8 yet.
Mattt Irwin just posted a great vid comparing the Z7, Z8 and D850
--
areallygrumpyoldsod
Nikon and Hasselblad shooter -- wildlife and and -- https://www.andymillerphoto.co.uk/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajm057/
NeedMorePractice
Senior Member
You can get an idea of high ISO noise performance from this chart since the Z8 is basically a Z9:
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Nikon Z 6II_14,Nikon Z 7II_14,Nikon Z 9_14
What it tells us is that anything ISO 800 or higher - so pretty much everything in low light - is going to mean worse results on a Z8 than a Z6 or Z6ii and similar results compared to a Z7 or Z7ii.
It's an oversimplification, but that's what it boils down to for someone seeking a generalized answer. It's also one of the reasons my two-body combo is going to consist of both an already preordered Z8 and my current Z6 (perhaps upgraded to a Z6iii if they ever decide to release one).
https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Nikon Z 6II_14,Nikon Z 7II_14,Nikon Z 9_14
What it tells us is that anything ISO 800 or higher - so pretty much everything in low light - is going to mean worse results on a Z8 than a Z6 or Z6ii and similar results compared to a Z7 or Z7ii.
It's an oversimplification, but that's what it boils down to for someone seeking a generalized answer. It's also one of the reasons my two-body combo is going to consist of both an already preordered Z8 and my current Z6 (perhaps upgraded to a Z6iii if they ever decide to release one).
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That's kinda the point. You have two sensors to be used in two different situations.
I don't shoot sports or wildlife - documentary , street , urban and nature landscapes are my main interests - the Z6II / Z7II (or what's to follow in these two categories) will probably suit me better.
P.S. As I wear glasses - the Z8 has CRAZY GOOD eye relief (23mm) best I have ever seen on a camera !!
P.S. As I wear glasses - the Z8 has CRAZY GOOD eye relief (23mm) best I have ever seen on a camera !!
vtpeters
Leading Member
Since the Z8 uses the same sensor as the Z9, you can use the (scientific) measurements at DXOmark to compare the sensors of these cameras.
Go to: https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...s-Nikon-Z7II-versus-Nikon-Z9___1269_1361_1378
Go to the "Measurements" tab and compare the scores of the three cameras.
Don't forget to switch from "Print" to "Screen" (two buttons above the Y-axis) because the differences are levelled out more in print.
Note: The Z6 and Z6II perform the same (they don't have a Z6II in their database)
Go to: https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...s-Nikon-Z7II-versus-Nikon-Z9___1269_1361_1378
Go to the "Measurements" tab and compare the scores of the three cameras.
Don't forget to switch from "Print" to "Screen" (two buttons above the Y-axis) because the differences are levelled out more in print.
Note: The Z6 and Z6II perform the same (they don't have a Z6II in their database)
archerscreek
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How well the Z8 (and the Z9) does depends.
1) What do you mean by high ISO? For some it’s anything over 500. For others it’s over 2000, others it’s 6400. For some it’s 12,000.
2) How well can you fill the frame and avoid cropping at those levels?
3) How much fine detail do you need or expect and how much pixel peeping do you do?
How well the Z9 does in the ISO 800 to 6400 + range for me depends a great deal on how much cropping I have to do and how much fine detail I need or expect to retain. I can shoot full frame and even DX crops of people at ISO 2000 and not have to use post processing noise reduction software even after lifting the shadows or exposure of the subject. But I’ve also seen noticeable noise when cropping in and pixel peeping feathers of small birds at ISO 800.
So it all depends. Also, I guarantee you the person shooting in low light with a 400 f/2.8 will enjoy the sensor more than the one shooting at 400 f5.6, or at 85 mm and f/1.8 vs f/4, just as the one shooting at 800 f/6.3 will be better off than the one shooting at 400 f/6.3 and cropping in. I bet higher megapixel sensors sell more of the more expensive glass options than any marketing print because the higher megapixel sensors benefit more from the better glass.
Mostly up to ISO 6400 for a somewhat lit night time street scene where you would want to make a decent quality print . I had not thought about the “better / faster glass” association before - interesting .
Vince P
Senior Member
You can't use that to draw conclusions about sensors with different pixel counts since they have to be output somehow and that process isn't in the mix. For example compare the A7Siii to the A7RIV then watch
NeedMorePractice
Senior Member
Well, in the real world it proved true to my eyes, as I've now been using both my Z8 and Z6 in tandem since my NPS Z8 preorder arrived. YMMV based on several variables, of course, and modern noise reduction works wonders, when necessary.
But to be honest, the banding I can't get rid of with the Z8 in certain lighting conditions bothers me more than the extra noise compared to the Z6, and this is why I'm strongly hoping the Z6iii will have a mechanical shutter (assuming it's an upcoming model since, to my knowledge, Nikon has never actually said they're making one).
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TheSoaringSprite
Senior Member
Can you post an example of this banding you're seeing? I haven't seen any banding in any of my Z8 photos thus far. Just curious.
NeedMorePractice
Senior Member
I can't share full photos for this work but I'll see if I can snap some cropped closeups that show the banding when I get back to the computer where I have these files.
NeedMorePractice
Senior Member
Might not be the best examples since I don't have time to go through all of them, but they give you an idea. From my quick glance, shutter speeds were all over the place from about 1/200 to 1/800 and include me messing with high frequency flicker reduction settings.
Is this the same type of banding I've seen reported elsewhere as being introduced by lens correction profiles in Lightroom? Too busy to do a direct search immediately, but I recall something similar here in the forums. In other examples they were also high ISO images, but lens corrections in software were introducing the issue.
Might not be the best examples since I don't have time to go through all of them, but they give you an idea. From my quick glance, shutter speeds were all over the place from about 1/200 to 1/800 and include me messing with high frequency flicker reduction settings.
NeedMorePractice
Senior Member
These were very noticeable in image preview on the Z8 during the shoot, which is why I started messing with the high frequency settings and eventually switched to the Z6 for my primary body. On the full images, they’re noticeable enough that I could immediately pick out Z8 photos from collections of mixed Z6/Z8 images. Not every Z8 image had this, as the lights were constantly moving and changing, as was my angle and position, but when it was present, it was hard to miss.
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