Improving my editing

Hi all,



Thought I'd share a little tid bit here. I've recently come to the realization that I need to deliver LESS photos to a client...yes that's right. I've concentrated on delivering photos faster after the shoot rather than really taking the time and going slow on my editing... I've also relied heavily on presets to deliver the maximum amount of photos in the quickest amount of time. This hasn't always been better for me...

I've recently purchased the full version of capture one and I've been using that for more basic culling and editing with presets. I do enjoy the ease of use and ability to editing many photos quickly. However, I've noticed that getting very detailed in my edits takes more time and I've become accustom to using Affinity Photo 2. It seems like the RAW file in affinity photo 2 needs pushed more than in C1 but I can get a pretty good result using AF2.



Here's what I delivered to a client (unpaid) using a preset:




Capture One preset edit

Overall, not bad I think. I edited to taste but realized that I might have over saturated her face and pushed the grain or clarity up too much. I switched over to AF2 and did some edits, here's the result:




Edited to taste using Affinity Photo 2

One thing I notice right away is the Affinity Photo 2 file is twice the size of the C1 file. Not sure if that has anything to do with the JPEG engine but thought that was interesting.

I did some manual corrections on this AF2 photo. 1) brightened her eyes and teeth. 2) reduced the clarity on her skin. 3) Boosted vibrance over saturation. 4) Did about 1px of high pass filter.

Overall I prefer the 2nd photo over my Capture One edit. I think the teeth and eye enhancements really add to the photo, I probably could take down the color temp a tad on the 2nd but it seems pretty accurate based on my eye while in the moment...



The photoshoot was an unplanned doctorate graduation shoot that a friend asked me to take when the other photographer didn't show up. I fortunately had my camera but that was it, so I had to come up with locations for the shoot and proper lighting. Again, overall I'm happy with it but in retrospect I can definitely improve on my editing. I delivered 20 photos to the client and probably going forward I should concentrate on higher quality individual images and deliver something around 5-10. I've grown a ton in my 2023 photography and I'm excited for what 2024 will bring.

--
Current Camera Shots --> https://www.flickr.com/photos/30149337@N04/

Good job on the facial edits.

I have photoshop and would use generative fill to remove the green leafs around the bottom of the pic.

Generative fill has been a game changer for me.

matttelz said:

One thing I notice right away is the Affinity Photo 2 file is twice the size of the C1 file. Not sure if that has anything to do with the JPEG engine but thought that was interesting.

Click to expand...

The Affinity Photo version is much larger because it's much noisier, and noise does not compress well. Part of improving editing with current software is controlling noise. You can see it when you look closely:


Capture One


Affinity Photo

...have you asked your (unpaying) client which of those 2 versions she prefers?

To my (admittedly old) eyes there is a dramatic difference between the hair color in each.

I agree that the facial tones look "better" in the AF version however I also think that the green is un-natural looking (too green to look real).

I think women are keenly aware of how they >>WANT<< to look and your client may have an opinion that differs from yours.

- Gary

matttelz said:

Hi all,

Thought I'd share a little tid bit here. I've recently come to the realization that I need to deliver LESS photos to a client...yes that's right. I've concentrated on delivering photos faster after the shoot rather than really taking the time and going slow on my editing... I've also relied heavily on presets to deliver the maximum amount of photos in the quickest amount of time. This hasn't always been better for me...

I've recently purchased the full version of capture one and I've been using that for more basic culling and editing with presets. I do enjoy the ease of use and ability to editing many photos quickly. However, I've noticed that getting very detailed in my edits takes more time and I've become accustom to using Affinity Photo 2. It seems like the RAW file in affinity photo 2 needs pushed more than in C1 but I can get a pretty good result using AF2.

Here's what I delivered to a client (unpaid) using a preset:


Capture One preset edit

Overall, not bad I think. I edited to taste but realized that I might have over saturated her face and pushed the grain or clarity up too much. I switched over to AF2 and did some edits, here's the result:


Edited to taste using Affinity Photo 2

One thing I notice right away is the Affinity Photo 2 file is twice the size of the C1 file. Not sure if that has anything to do with the JPEG engine but thought that was interesting.

I did some manual corrections on this AF2 photo. 1) brightened her eyes and teeth. 2) reduced the clarity on her skin. 3) Boosted vibrance over saturation. 4) Did about 1px of high pass filter.

Overall I prefer the 2nd photo over my Capture One edit. I think the teeth and eye enhancements really add to the photo, I probably could take down the color temp a tad on the 2nd but it seems pretty accurate based on my eye while in the moment...

The photoshoot was an unplanned doctorate graduation shoot that a friend asked me to take when the other photographer didn't show up. I fortunately had my camera but that was it, so I had to come up with locations for the shoot and proper lighting. Again, overall I'm happy with it but in retrospect I can definitely improve on my editing. I delivered 20 photos to the client and probably going forward I should concentrate on higher quality individual images and deliver something around 5-10. I've grown a ton in my 2023 photography and I'm excited for what 2024 will bring.

Click to expand...

Hi Matt, (I hope that is your name)

I hope you do not mind my having a go at this photo. And I will explain why I wanted to give you another option.

JUST MY PERSONAL OPINIONS, and not meant to be the ONLY opinions. Just mine personally.

To me, the photo lacks any depth, and creates lack of sharpness even on some parts of the facial area. The photo has too many distractions in my opinion and takes away from the subject of the photo itself. The green blotches are very distracting, so I cropped them out. The background was too distracting with so much color, that I de-saturated the background. Then, the subject. Red blotching all over her face that I tried to remove by selecting the face itself and reducing reds. Then I had to increase yellows on the face to bring back skin tone. I also worked on a few of the facial blemishes to remove them, as blemishes heal anyway, and would only tend to harm the image. I also reduced the hair color about 20% because it was dominate in the photo, and I wanted to focus the eyes more on her facial features. I also brightened her eyes, and reduced the darkness of the lines under her eyes. And finally, I used Topaz Sharpen because I felt the softness was too much of the image.

I hope you don't my my play. Here is my try for you.





Let me know, honestly, what you think, if it helps or not for you. I just wanted to try to focus the viewers eyes, more to her, than the green blotches, and the background.



--
Major Jack
"You are welcome to retouch any photograph I post in these forums without prior consent from me, just please respect my copyright."

grsnovi said:

...have you asked your (unpaying) client which of those 2 versions she prefers?

To my (admittedly old) eyes there is a dramatic difference between the hair color in each.

I agree that the facial tones look "better" in the AF version however I also think that the green is un-natural looking (too green to look real).

I think women are keenly aware of how they >>WANT<< to look and your client may have an opinion that differs from yours.

- Gary

Click to expand...

I think right there you have one of the major conceptual issues with post processing. Any of the current common better software tools are so powerful that you can create radically different possible final products. For a hobbyist like myself, that is no problem: really the only one I am trying to please is myself. However, when you are a professional having to deliver a product to a discerning customer, this becomes a whole new ball game. Hopefully as a pro you have a "signature style" that the customer has seen and considered in procuring your services. Otherwise you are probably faced with a decision to either provide your standard look or trying to determine what your customer wants and editing accordingly.

Life is never as simple as we would have liked it, is it?

One more try, if you don't mind.





Using her as a background this time. Just for play.

--
Major Jack
"You are welcome to retouch any photograph I post in these forums without prior consent from me, just please respect my copyright."

Major Jack said:

I hope you do not mind my having a go at this photo ... The photo has too many distractions in my opinion and takes away from the subject of the photo itself. The green blotches are very distracting, so I cropped them out. The background was too distracting with so much color, that I de-saturated the background.

Click to expand...

I think it's worse overall. The color has been sucked out, and so has the color of the subject. The parts you find distracting I find interesting, and they give the photo a sense of place (though I would probably crop some of those areas away). There is some technical improvement, but I find the result to be bland and generic-looking.

And I dislike the later intrusion of the ghost image on the right.

Just my opinion, I guess.

matttelz said:

Hi all,

Thought I'd share a little tid bit here. I've recently come to the realization that I need to deliver LESS photos to a client...yes that's right. I've concentrated on delivering photos faster after the shoot rather than really taking the time and going slow on my editing... I've also relied heavily on presets to deliver the maximum amount of photos in the quickest amount of time. This hasn't always been better for me...

I've recently purchased the full version of capture one and I've been using that for more basic culling and editing with presets. I do enjoy the ease of use and ability to editing many photos quickly. However, I've noticed that getting very detailed in my edits takes more time and I've become accustom to using Affinity Photo 2. It seems like the RAW file in affinity photo 2 needs pushed more than in C1 but I can get a pretty good result using AF2.

Here's what I delivered to a client (unpaid) using a preset:


Capture One preset edit

Overall, not bad I think. I edited to taste but realized that I might have over saturated her face and pushed the grain or clarity up too much. I switched over to AF2 and did some edits, here's the result:


Edited to taste using Affinity Photo 2

One thing I notice right away is the Affinity Photo 2 file is twice the size of the C1 file. Not sure if that has anything to do with the JPEG engine but thought that was interesting.

I did some manual corrections on this AF2 photo. 1) brightened her eyes and teeth. 2) reduced the clarity on her skin. 3) Boosted vibrance over saturation. 4) Did about 1px of high pass filter.

Overall I prefer the 2nd photo over my Capture One edit. I think the teeth and eye enhancements really add to the photo, I probably could take down the color temp a tad on the 2nd but it seems pretty accurate based on my eye while in the moment...

The photoshoot was an unplanned doctorate graduation shoot that a friend asked me to take when the other photographer didn't show up. I fortunately had my camera but that was it, so I had to come up with locations for the shoot and proper lighting. Again, overall I'm happy with it but in retrospect I can definitely improve on my editing. I delivered 20 photos to the client and probably going forward I should concentrate on higher quality individual images and deliver something around 5-10. I've grown a ton in my 2023 photography and I'm excited for what 2024 will bring.

Click to expand...

From your comments, I think you may not be fully familiar with Capture One's tools.

The Skin Tone tool and Style brushes give you with easy and fast adjustments to your images. In particular the Skin Tool in the Advanced colour editor tab is one of the reasons I use C1.





These two videos will give you some idea of what they can do.



Ian

AlwynS said:

grsnovi said:

...have you asked your (unpaying) client which of those 2 versions she prefers?

To my (admittedly old) eyes there is a dramatic difference between the hair color in each.

I agree that the facial tones look "better" in the AF version however I also think that the green is un-natural looking (too green to look real).

I think women are keenly aware of how they >>WANT<< to look and your client may have an opinion that differs from yours.

- Gary

Click to expand...

I think right there you have one of the major conceptual issues with post processing. Any of the current common better software tools are so powerful that you can create radically different possible final products. For a hobbyist like myself, that is no problem: really the only one I am trying to please is myself. However, when you are a professional having to deliver a product to a discerning customer, this becomes a whole new ball game. Hopefully as a pro you have a "signature style" that the customer has seen and considered in procuring your services. Otherwise you are probably faced with a decision to either provide your standard look or trying to determine what your customer wants and editing accordingly.

Life is never as simple as we would have liked it, is it?

Click to expand...

All the commentary above from everyone else has definitely been helpful and well received. I definitely want my work to stand out and be something that I'm proud of. I definitely haven't developed a particular style yet. I've seen alot of peoples work and I tend to enjoy the more moody/grainy, especially B&W film look. I haven't quite ventured too far into this category yet with my own work for fear that the client will be unhappy with the end result. I've thus stuck to more neutral editing but I'd like to change that up.

I did not provide the client with option A or B. Maybe I didn't clarify this. I'm just more so experimenting with improving my editing after the fact. I delivered the photos about 2 weeks ago so it might be weird to come back with new options....

I'm hoping I can hone in on a more distinct style in 2024...I feel like I've got enough work under my belt that I should be able to develop a pretty easy to notice style in all of my work rather than being all over the place ATM...

matttelz said:

AlwynS said:

grsnovi said:

...have you asked your (unpaying) client which of those 2 versions she prefers?

To my (admittedly old) eyes there is a dramatic difference between the hair color in each.

I agree that the facial tones look "better" in the AF version however I also think that the green is un-natural looking (too green to look real).

I think women are keenly aware of how they >>WANT<< to look and your client may have an opinion that differs from yours.

- Gary

Click to expand...

I think right there you have one of the major conceptual issues with post processing. Any of the current common better software tools are so powerful that you can create radically different possible final products. For a hobbyist like myself, that is no problem: really the only one I am trying to please is myself. However, when you are a professional having to deliver a product to a discerning customer, this becomes a whole new ball game. Hopefully as a pro you have a "signature style" that the customer has seen and considered in procuring your services. Otherwise you are probably faced with a decision to either provide your standard look or trying to determine what your customer wants and editing accordingly.

Life is never as simple as we would have liked it, is it?

Click to expand...

All the commentary above from everyone else has definitely been helpful and well received.

Click to expand...

I am very sorry, if my photo, or comments offended you. That was never my intent. But based on the comment above, I suspect you did not appreciate my attempt or something I said. I am sincerely sorry for any offense you took from my photo, or any words that I may have said. I was simply trying to give you my personal opinion, and help. In this case, I must have failed in doing so. Again, my sincere apologies.

matttelz said:

I definitely want my work to stand out and be something that I'm proud of. I definitely haven't developed a particular style yet. I've seen alot of peoples work and I tend to enjoy the more moody/grainy, especially B&W film look. I haven't quite ventured too far into this category yet with my own work for fear that the client will be unhappy with the end result. I've thus stuck to more neutral editing but I'd like to change that up.

I did not provide the client with option A or B. Maybe I didn't clarify this. I'm just more so experimenting with improving my editing after the fact. I delivered the photos about 2 weeks ago so it might be weird to come back with new options....

I'm hoping I can hone in on a more distinct style in 2024...I feel like I've got enough work under my belt that I should be able to develop a pretty easy to notice style in all of my work rather than being all over the place ATM...

Click to expand...

Rod Baakkonen said:

Good job on the facial edits.

I have photoshop and would use generative fill to remove the green leafs around the bottom of the pic.

Generative fill has been a game changer for me.

Click to expand...

I did indeed try that, and I was not pleased with the results, so I just decided to crop them out. I even tried the Remove Tool, and it would not accomplish it to my satisfaction either. But I agree that they needed to be removed.

and great result in my humble opinion

--
If you want to be equal, you have to be better...

s_grins said:

and great result in my humble opinion

Click to expand...

Thanks my Friend.

Merry Christmas.

If you are charging a fee then in my experience to eliminate client disappointment you really should discuss their requirements and your deliverables well before you press the shutter button on the shoot.

I like your Affinity 2 version better but there are still a couple of things that I personally would find distracting or annoying.

I actually like the 3 tiered depth in the scene. The green blotches, the subject in the middle and then the background give a pleasing depth to the scene.

Removing the blotches entirely makes the image just another "plain vanilla" and fairly flat portrait imo.

However I have cropped to a more squarish aspect ratio placing the "portraitee's" head close to the center horizontally thus making it stand out a bit more since it is not actually in the foreground.

I also removed the highly distracting and annoying, to me at least, highlights on the right side of the forehead, the right cheek and the bridge of the nose using frequency separation.

Whether the bags under the eyes are removed or toned down or not are really up to the portraitee. Some women I have photographed prefer to not be made to look too unnatural regardless of the facial features. Removing/altering facial features is reasonably straight forward.

I adjusted the colors and tones slightly to make them look good on my screen.

I used Photoshop Elements with the Elements+ plugin.

Anyway, fwiw this is my version of what I would tend towards in the absence of knowing exactly what the subject would ask for.


Better viewed in Original Size

Major Jack said:

One more try, if you don't mind.



Using her as a background this time. Just for play.

Click to expand...

Way, way off base.

D Saul said:

Major Jack said:

One more try, if you don't mind.



Using her as a background this time. Just for play.

Click to expand...

Way, way off base.

Click to expand...

I have always respected PERSONAL Opinions, I really have, and I respect yours. I get a lot of people in my work that love this technique, and that is why I do it. But, everyone has their own personal views, and that is fine, it really is.

It was something I just wanted to try for him. Clearly he did not like it either, and that is OK. Some will, some won't, I understand that completely. At least I tried to give him an option.

I have another one that he may like better here. In this one, I did not change too much, just made a few adjustments. I created leaves out of the green blotches, but left them blurred also. I removed one of them and used Generative Fill to create a hand that had been basically cut off from the photo. I left the color saturation back to normal that he had, and added some "shine" to her necklace. I still removed a couple blemishes, as experience tells me that girls want blemishes removed. They are temporary, and can ruin an image.

Maybe this one will be more to his and your taste. Again, never meant to insult the man, just give him another "option". As I said in my original post, this was just my personal opinion. I am sorry if he did not like it, but he should at least remember, that when people try to offer him suggestions, he should at least acknowledge the effort and give his own personal opinions back to those who indeed try. Many people offer their opinions, but never give it an effort themselves to even try to help.

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Here is my last try for him.







--
Major Jack
"You are welcome to retouch any photograph I post in these forums without prior consent from me, just please respect my copyright."

This one, on your website is much better, IN MY OPINION.


I still do not like the green blotches, but her pose, is more Natural looking to me, and just an overall better photo. The colors are less saturated and her hair is not nearly as bright. I suspect that is why you posted it on your website, and not the other one. I suspect.

In looking at your photographs, many of them are stunning, and very well composed. So, you have "the eye".

Happy Holidays.

--
Major Jack
"You are welcome to retouch any photograph I post in these forums without prior consent from me, just please respect my copyright."

I enhanced it as a portrait only. The background was too demanding for me.







--
Always teach for understanding, not agreement.
JC Sofield
www.pbase.com/jcsofield

Major Jack said:

D Saul said:

Major Jack said:

One more try, if you don't mind.



Using her as a background this time. Just for play.

Click to expand...

Way, way off base.

Click to expand...

I have always respected PERSONAL Opinions, I really have, and I respect yours. I get a lot of people in my work that love this technique, and that is why I do it. But, everyone has their own personal views, and that is fine, it really is.

It was something I just wanted to try for him. Clearly he did not like it either, and that is OK. Some will, some won't, I understand that completely. At least I tried to give him an option.

I have another one that he may like better here. In this one, I did not change too much, just made a few adjustments. I created leaves out of the green blotches, but left them blurred also. I removed one of them and used Generative Fill to create a hand that had been basically cut off from the photo. I left the color saturation back to normal that he had, and added some "shine" to her necklace. I still removed a couple blemishes, as experience tells me that girls want blemishes removed. They are temporary, and can ruin an image.

Maybe this one will be more to his and your taste. Again, never meant to insult the man, just give him another "option". As I said in my original post, this was just my personal opinion. I am sorry if he did not like it, but he should at least remember, that when people try to offer him suggestions, he should at least acknowledge the effort and give his own personal opinions back to those who indeed try.

Click to expand...

What on earth are you on about?

Matt did not ask at all for anyone to try to "improve" any of the images he posted, especially since he posted he actually liked his Affinity Photo version.

He just described in general terms how he needs to improve his post prpcessing workflow.

You posted unsolicited edits to an image he previously posted he was actually happy with.

He clearly disagrees with your opinion about removing the green blotches.

Posting unsolicited edits to help illustrate an opinion is fine but does not entitle anyone an acknowledgement or feedback since the edits were never asked for.

Expecting an acknowledgement or feedback like you are here smacks of "look at me, look at me" and a need of some sort of praise from other people.

if you need help and feedback to.improve your editing skills then perhaps consider using your own images in your own threads instead of using other people's images.

Major Jack said:

Many people offer their opinions, but never give it an effort themselves to even try to help.

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Here is my last try for him.

Click to expand...

This one looks too unnatural because either all of the blotches should be replaced with realistic looking leaves or none of them.

Major Jack said:

--
Major Jack
"You are welcome to retouch any photograph I post in these forums without prior consent from me, just please respect my copyright."

Click to expand...