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Philosophy question : when does a Photographer become a visual artist ?

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Mark S Abeln said:
pentax mono said:
When does a Photographer actually become a visual artist ? ......

..... it boggles the mind
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According to the ancient Socratic philosophical tradition, being an artist is an intrinsic part of being an intelligent being: it’s a part of what we are, and a certain degree of art applies to anything we make.
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Sure. However, I believe we need to consider a few additional issues:

- ancient Greeks considered work as despicable. As a result, when the artist becomes a professional, does he/she still deserve to be called an artist? Art is supposed to have no fundamental purpose, I mean, it's not like growing crops or building houses.

- the concept of "art" was very different at Socrate's epoch. There was actually no word for "art". There were two different concepts: tekné, the capacity to build things, and poesis, the capacity to generate images in the head of the audience. None of those concepts are actually applicable to photography... At least, if we limit photography to the reproduction of reality.
Mark S Abeln said:
Photography is a visual art, and so being a photographer already means you are a visual artist.
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If one's purpose is only to reproduce what they have already seen, there is no creative input and therefore the art ingredient of the result is almost nil, it's about craft, not art.
Mark S Abeln said:
Now that doesn’t automatically mean that you are any good at it, nor does it mean that your photos ought to be in a gallery or sell for a good price.
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That's another story... who decides what deserves to be exposed in a gallery?
 
Cherry_F said:
Mark S Abeln said:
pentax mono said:
When does a Photographer actually become a visual artist ? ......

..... it boggles the mind
Click to expand...
According to the ancient Socratic philosophical tradition, being an artist is an intrinsic part of being an intelligent being: it’s a part of what we are, and a certain degree of art applies to anything we make.
Click to expand...
Sure. However, I believe we need to consider a few additional issues:

- ancient Greeks considered work as despicable. As a result, when the artist becomes a professional, does he/she still deserve to be called an artist? Art is supposed to have no fundamental purpose, I mean, it's not like growing crops or building houses.

- the concept of "art" was very different at Socrate's epoch. There was actually no word for "art". There were two different concepts: tekné, the capacity to build things, and poesis, the capacity to generate images in the head of the audience. None of those concepts are actually applicable to photography... At least, if we limit photography to the reproduction of reality.
Cherry_F said:
Photography is a visual art, and so being a photographer already means you are a visual artist.
Click to expand...
If one's purpose is only to reproduce what they have already seen, there is no creative input and therefore the art ingredient of the result is almost nil, it's about craft, not art.
Cherry_F said:
Now that doesn’t automatically mean that you are any good at it, nor does it mean that your photos ought to be in a gallery or sell for a good price.
Click to expand...
That's another story... who decides what deserves to be exposed in a gallery?
Click to expand...
 
JohnSil said:
Twombly said:
Skills and personal expression result in a piece of art

As it is not possible to take a photograph without personal expression (choice of composition, lighting etc) every picture skillfully taken is a piece of art.

(By "skillfully taken" I mean "you know what you are doing").
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Twombly, according to Pentax the definition of photographer is as follows........

Webster Dictionary :

Photographer :

" One who practices Photography "

That to me would seem to include anybody with a cell phone or a slr/dslr etc. If they use that devise to take pics then that are photographers! Unless the word "practices" has some hidden meaning!

John
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My own definition?

"One who with a device purposefully and with specific intent captures moments in time for own pleasure in the moment and for own and/or others pleasure at a later point in time."

To photograph on does not need to be a photographer. A photographer can never take a photograph without being a photographer. The difference, to me, is why one takes a picture. That's what I'm trying to philobabble on about.... Many non-photographers take absolutely amazing photographs. Many photographers take mediocre photographs. So it it not based on end result either.
 
I would call the kind of photography that I do art because that's what I intend for it to be (at least most of the time that I shoot). I'm not looking so much to record things, events, etc, so much as create something that's meant to be a the product of my creative imagination and is meant to be contemplated just like a work of art in any other media. I'm inspired primarily by photographers who are considered artists and artists working in other media...

--
my flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/128435329@N08/
 
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Tom Axford said:
jrtrent said:
The complete definition is:

: one who practices photography
especially : one who makes a business of taking photographs

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/photographer

I think the "especially" part is important, and when someone tells me he is a photographer, my assumption is that he at least hopes to make money by taking pictures. A person perhaps equally dedicated to the craft but not doing it for financial gain might call himself an amateur photographer.
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The dictionary definition implies that every amateur photographer is a photographer and every professional photographer is a photographer.
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A photographer really is anyone who takes photos... with a dedicated camera, with a phone, film, digital... all of it.
 
Even if you were to assert to the world you are not a visual artist, you have absolutely no control whether others would consider you a visual artist.
 
An artist paints a picture of a building. Is he creating art or merely making a record of a thing. If it's art then so is taking a photo of it. We don't consider it art because anyone can do it, right? It requires no skill

But its still a recorded visual image.
 
JohnSil said:
D Cox said:
Bob A L said:
In my personal case, hopefully never. I want to be a photographer not an artist. I have no interest in art whatsoever.
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  • I think your photos must be rather boring to look at if you pay no attention to light or composition.
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Maybe You are just unfamiliar with Pulitzer Prize winning photographs?!? Most Pulitzer Prize winning photographs are mere snap-shoots taken in an instant with no attention paid to anything other than being in the right place at the right time. Other than experience and being at the ready most Pulitzer Prize winning photographs, it's pretty obvious don't have a lot of paying attention to the light or composition!!!

So think again!

John
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"I've told you a million times before, 'don't exaggerate' "

"The more I practise, the luckier I get."

Every single Pulitzer prize winner that I've seen certainly did pay attention to light, and many of them specifically to composition as well e.g. Iwo Jima(read the story behind that one), Homecoming(the photographer waited for hours to get the picture and deliberately chose the low angle), Aid from the Padre(the jurors apparently admired the way drama, impact, and composition coexisted in the picture) etc, etc.

All the winners combine most if not all of the well recognised elements of good photography: Capturing the moment; Freezing time; Painting with light; Telling a story; Creating memories. To call a Pulitzer prize winning picture a snap-shot is disingenuous to say the least.

Everyone who takes a photograph is a photographer, regardless of output, and regardless of gear. Whether or not that makes them an artist, visual or otherwise...
 
..and do we define a photograph first..(now a generic term for image by a recording device?) .. then a photographer..🙈
 
Steveglen said:
..and do we define a photograph first..(now a generic term for image by a recording device?) .. then a photographer..🙈
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Photography is the process of making a durable image beginning with exposing a light-sensitive medium to light. A photograph is the durable image resulting from that process. The process can include manipulation of the image's lightness, tonality, color, and other qualities without compromising the fact of what was present in the scene when the photo was made.

The question, what makes a person a photographer, has already been addressed. A photographer is a person who practices photography.

--
Bill Ferris Photography
Flagstaff, AZ
http://www.billferris.photoshelter.com
 
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I view art as a means of communication between the artist and the viewer, in other words the artist is trying to communicate an idea or vision or feeling or whatever, through his art.

So when a photographer starts trying to use the photograph to do the same, the photographer becomes an artist.

For instance if a photographer is taking photographs to document something, that would not automatically be art.
 
Hello

why is it important that someone that takes pictures is an artist or not.

I saw many debates about that and there is no final conclusion

Do it make anyone better if one is called artist?

I would belive that a lot of parents would be worried if the kids tell they want to be an artist

“How should they survive how to earn sufficient money as an artist…..? 😳

For my point of view it is makes one important if someone is a good person friendly and helpful, not if someone is an artist or a photographer, an electrician or a Doctor 😀

Regards
 
Wolfgang2 said:
Hello

why is it important that someone that takes pictures is an artist or not.

I saw many debates about that and there is no final conclusion
Do it make anyone better if one is called artist?

I would belive that a lot of parents would be worried if the kids tell they want to be an artist

“How should they survive how to earn sufficient money as an artist…..? 😳
For my point of view it is makes one important if someone is a good person friendly and helpful, not if someone is an artist or a photographer, an electrician or a Doctor 😀

Regards
Click to expand...
True, being friendly and helpful is important, but so is discovering and following your passion. You only have one life to live.
 
Chris Noble said:
Wolfgang2 said:
Hello

why is it important that someone that takes pictures is an artist or not.

I saw many debates about that and there is no final conclusion
Do it make anyone better if one is called artist?

I would belive that a lot of parents would be worried if the kids tell they want to be an artist

“How should they survive how to earn sufficient money as an artist…..? 😳
For my point of view it is makes one important if someone is a good person friendly and helpful, not if someone is an artist or a photographer, an electrician or a Doctor 😀

Regards
Click to expand...
True, being friendly and helpful is important, but so is discovering and following your passion. You only have one life to live.
Click to expand...
Hello


Is it not possible to follow ones passion, be friendly and helpful at the same time

Is it important to be called an artist or a photographer following ones passion or is it important to just do it.

regards
 
It's just first, second or third person grammar:

I create art

You take photographs

He/she takes snapshots

;-)
 
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what fantastic responses so far ,,,,, and much more than that ..... what a fantastic thread
 
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