Problem is harness of AF assist light catches people's attention who were initially unaware of photo about to be taken. And for subjects with eyes sensitive to harsh lights in dark venues, it can make them wince or look away.
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olyflyer
Forum Pro
Not if the AF assist light works as it supposed to and help to quickly acquire focus, but yes, if you use video lights or only play with the camera. But that's the same issue, regardless of the type of AF light, red or green. The problem today is that some people are trying to use the one built in the camera, which is just useless because all it does is that it is blinking and grabbing attention, but no use because the camera still fights for focus.
If you have a good and working AF assist light then people would not react more than they do once the flash is fired. Anyway, if people don't want their picture to be taken, they will look away regardless of what, as soon as you lift your camera. THAT is what disturbs them, not the AF light. Of course, if an insecure newbie takes pictures then he/she can trickle the AF assist light constantly, and THAT is really annoying.
But anyway, using or not using the AF assist light would be an option each could make if there was a working alternative in any flash. How disturbing that would be for the environment is not for you and me to decide. In some situation it would be a "no no", in others it would be a "life saver" for the photographer.
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https://www.youtube.com/@AdaptingCamera/videos
https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com/2021/01/latest-update-regarding-external-auto.html
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batleys
Leading Member
Indeed, I looked at my source info and it was deduced speculation as opposed to being explicitly stated by Nikon or Socionext .. so they may be using ASML’s 5nm fabrication process… or may not…
It’s funny I can’t help thinking if Nikon was a European or US company there would be more information and white papers about the engineering aspects published… it adds credibility and confidence to the approach and design of these products .. which for some of us is important as these tools are not really commodity consumer items.. they are precision pieces of engineering. Perhaps it’s a cultural thing.
Thom Hogan
Forum Pro
I looked at Socionext's full technical writeups that are available. My conclusion based upon what I know is in EXPEED and the process sizes that Socionext says those things are available at is that EXPEED7 is probably still in the low teens for process size. But it's possible that Nikon is an early customer for something not yet advertised by Socionext.
Also, at the time EXPEED7 would have had to have been made, I had Socionext at a 6nm process for their smallest work. They've since moved to 5nm (and possibly further).
ECMLawrence
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Yeah I’ve used z8 +sb910 flash (bounce) during an overcast event inside a room worked great then I brought into a nightclub, had the worst time trying to configure my settings used TTL but no focus beam available, which I’ve read that it doesn’t respond. Used face detection and switched from AF-C to AF-S which I found AF-C worked a little better for me. Felt like having the AF-S on enabled the green focus beam which made it focus search in and out was hard to catch on my subjects faces. With the AF-C it was a bit better but i noticed I had to be quick to take the picture to get it locked on my subjects to get good focused image. I took a few shots to make sure I had some options. But all in all it wasn’t a good experience using it during lowlight flash photography. I really hope they figure something out with a firmware update, cuz I really do love this camera.
Weddingstew
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You are NOT alone.
I'm a long time Nikon fan and user going all the way back to the F5.
I have been a pro wedding shooter for over 20 years and was on the D bodies for a long time ( D3, D4, D5 etc) for years before going with Z6ii's for the past two years or so. They are good but not pro level and I put up with their somewhat lackluster AF performance with the hope that a new pro body would drop. The Z9 came but it was too big for my taste so I waited. Enter the Z8. Done deal....or so I thought.
Shooting at deeper F-stops like 5.6 or 8 say to capture a large group portrait you can 100% expect this camera to miss focus in lower lighting conditions. The z6ii is poor in this regard but the Z8 is HORRIBLE. My wife's Canon R3 will nail the focus at the same stop in near darkness where my Z8 just won't get there unless you use a supplemental light light like an LED to help it. In my world you have to just be able to trust the camera to nail this so that you can quickly move on to the next. It does o.k of course at wide apertures ( which is how almost everyone seems to test the low-light ability of the camera) but that is not a realistic scenario if you want a group of people to be in focus. Even when shooting at F2 or wider it can be slow to focus and will miss an alarming amount of shots.
As you noted the focus assist lamp doesn't work great ( most lens hoods obstruct it) and it's super brights and annoying. The only work around that i have figured out is to use an on camera flash that has an assist / modeling lamp. I use the Godox V1 and when it has the diffusion dome attached the light isn't that bad. You can set it's brightness and turn it on with one push when needed so in situations where I get asked to do a group shot in low light I just quickly turn it on and take the shot. Keeping starlight mode on and shooting in Af-C helps. I've also found that performance is better if you turn face recognition off.
It should be noted that I have worked quite extensively with Nikon NPS in this issue and tested all the focus modes and even sent the camera back for calibration because I was sure that it was an issue with my particular camera and that the much lauded Z8 could not possibly be this bad. Sadly I do believe that it just does have terrible low light AF performance.
I feel like it is a bit of an industry secret that mirrorless generally do perform worse in low light than DSLR's ( that are using the AF flash assist lamp). Every review across brands always seems to show the camera shooting in low light at very wide apertures on prime lenses. Of course they will perform o.k. but in a real world professional situation you have to be able to shoot deeper stops too and be able to rely on focus.
All the fancy tech in the world counts for zero if the images are not in focus and sadly I've decided to sell my Z8 ( and continue shooting my Z6ii's) and wait on whatever the Z6ii replacement will be in the hopes that they can sort this out well enough to compete with the likes of Canon.
I'm a long time Nikon fan and user going all the way back to the F5.
I have been a pro wedding shooter for over 20 years and was on the D bodies for a long time ( D3, D4, D5 etc) for years before going with Z6ii's for the past two years or so. They are good but not pro level and I put up with their somewhat lackluster AF performance with the hope that a new pro body would drop. The Z9 came but it was too big for my taste so I waited. Enter the Z8. Done deal....or so I thought.
Shooting at deeper F-stops like 5.6 or 8 say to capture a large group portrait you can 100% expect this camera to miss focus in lower lighting conditions. The z6ii is poor in this regard but the Z8 is HORRIBLE. My wife's Canon R3 will nail the focus at the same stop in near darkness where my Z8 just won't get there unless you use a supplemental light light like an LED to help it. In my world you have to just be able to trust the camera to nail this so that you can quickly move on to the next. It does o.k of course at wide apertures ( which is how almost everyone seems to test the low-light ability of the camera) but that is not a realistic scenario if you want a group of people to be in focus. Even when shooting at F2 or wider it can be slow to focus and will miss an alarming amount of shots.
As you noted the focus assist lamp doesn't work great ( most lens hoods obstruct it) and it's super brights and annoying. The only work around that i have figured out is to use an on camera flash that has an assist / modeling lamp. I use the Godox V1 and when it has the diffusion dome attached the light isn't that bad. You can set it's brightness and turn it on with one push when needed so in situations where I get asked to do a group shot in low light I just quickly turn it on and take the shot. Keeping starlight mode on and shooting in Af-C helps. I've also found that performance is better if you turn face recognition off.
It should be noted that I have worked quite extensively with Nikon NPS in this issue and tested all the focus modes and even sent the camera back for calibration because I was sure that it was an issue with my particular camera and that the much lauded Z8 could not possibly be this bad. Sadly I do believe that it just does have terrible low light AF performance.
I feel like it is a bit of an industry secret that mirrorless generally do perform worse in low light than DSLR's ( that are using the AF flash assist lamp). Every review across brands always seems to show the camera shooting in low light at very wide apertures on prime lenses. Of course they will perform o.k. but in a real world professional situation you have to be able to shoot deeper stops too and be able to rely on focus.
All the fancy tech in the world counts for zero if the images are not in focus and sadly I've decided to sell my Z8 ( and continue shooting my Z6ii's) and wait on whatever the Z6ii replacement will be in the hopes that they can sort this out well enough to compete with the likes of Canon.
Did you find any workaround for these situations?
A large group of people seldom moves rapidly, so I imagine you might focus at wide aperture first, where the camera receives enough light for focusing properly, then close the aperture to f8 and then shoot.
It is surprising to see "holes" like this for significant things that have been solved long ago with DSLRs.
I had an issue with the Z6 when using studio strobes. When doing a typical strobe set-up for portraits that are primarily lit by strobes. You would use a lightmeter with the strobes then set the shutter speed and aperture in manual mode on the camera. You would then do a custom white balance with a grey-card. However, with the camera set to manual mode for shutter speed and f-stop, it is typically too dark to see anything in the viewfinder. There is indeed a setting so that the camera will adjust when looking through the viewfinder. However, when doing a custom white balance, this setting is ignored and looking through the viewfinder you essentially see nothing. I went back and forth with Nikon a bunch of times on this and it was never resolved. Don't know if they fixed that in the Z6ii, Z8 or Z9.
I had an issue with the Z6 when using studio strobes. When doing a typical strobe set-up for portraits that are primarily lit by strobes. You would use a lightmeter with the strobes then set the shutter speed and aperture in manual mode on the camera. You would then do a custom white balance with a grey-card. However, with the camera set to manual mode for shutter speed and f-stop, it is typically too dark to see anything in the viewfinder. There is indeed a setting so that the camera will adjust when looking through the viewfinder. However, when doing a custom white balance, this setting is ignored and looking through the viewfinder you essentially see nothing. I went back and forth with Nikon a bunch of times on this and it was never resolved. Don't know if they fixed that in the Z6ii, Z8 or Z9.
Weddingstew
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I just use my D5 if there are big nighttime shots that are scheduled 
For the Z8 I get best results using the "modeling light' on my Godox V1 flash which is not ideal but it is what it is.
At least Godox makes it super easy to click on and off.
For the Z8 I get best results using the "modeling light' on my Godox V1 flash which is not ideal but it is what it is.
At least Godox makes it super easy to click on and off.
Weddingstew
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Just shot another event today. It's embarrassing how bad the autofocus is on the Z8.
I've also noticed that after an hour or two of continuous shooting the camera's autofocus performance seems to drops noticeably. It really started struggling to lock focus in AF-S.
I'm wondering if there is some kind of thermal issue going on.
Has anyone experienced this?
I chose to bring my D5 to the job too and the strike rate is easily 95% in exactly the same environment. The Z8 is round 65% and that is if it will even lock on the subject. I lost so many shots with it hunting around struggling to find faces in a well lit event space.
I can't believe that an 8 year old camera outperforms Nikons latest and greatest in both autofocus and ISO performance.
I've also noticed that after an hour or two of continuous shooting the camera's autofocus performance seems to drops noticeably. It really started struggling to lock focus in AF-S.
I'm wondering if there is some kind of thermal issue going on.
Has anyone experienced this?
I chose to bring my D5 to the job too and the strike rate is easily 95% in exactly the same environment. The Z8 is round 65% and that is if it will even lock on the subject. I lost so many shots with it hunting around struggling to find faces in a well lit event space.
I can't believe that an 8 year old camera outperforms Nikons latest and greatest in both autofocus and ISO performance.
batleys
Leading Member
I have not noticed this in low light with z8 or z9, yes in very low light with a speed light I have found it can take longer or hunt to focus on faces, which is not ideal but possibly understandable as I don’t use a modelling or AF assist light usually. I do try and use an aperture of f/4 or wider in very low light…
when you were having issues, was your battery level low? And were you using a Nikon battery out of interest…
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Simon
https://www.flickr.com/people/suffolkimages/
when you were having issues, was your battery level low? And were you using a Nikon battery out of interest…
--
Simon
https://www.flickr.com/people/suffolkimages/
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Try temperature testing.
Find a day or place with hot temperatures, let camera acclimate to temperatures; time how long it takes for your Z8 to start struggling to lock focus in AF-S mode.
Repeat above test but with cold temperatures.
Tom Stites
Leading Member
And let's not forget the "We will study..." mode of "no"!
berto torres
Member
Hi!
I found this thread looking for info from z8 performance on weddings and dance floor, and this other review from a photographer that maybe it would be interesting for you
www.matijakljunakweddings.com
Some pleople says that it is unusable at dark wedding partys or dance floor, but the review says:
"In my experience after a solid number of weddings with Z8, the AF is amazingly reliable in low light! And this is with face detection on during 99% of the wedding, even in darkest of conditions. Strobe lights, colorful disco lights or candle-lit reception venue were all handled without any problems."
so it is confusing for me and do not know buy a z8 or change to canon R6II
I found this thread looking for info from z8 performance on weddings and dance floor, and this other review from a photographer that maybe it would be interesting for you
Nikon Z8 Real-World Usability Review (Photography) — Matija + Marina Weddings
A review of Nikon Z8 for weddings with a focus on usability and user-experience. This is part 1: wedding photography with Z8.
www.matijakljunakweddings.com
Some pleople says that it is unusable at dark wedding partys or dance floor, but the review says:
"In my experience after a solid number of weddings with Z8, the AF is amazingly reliable in low light! And this is with face detection on during 99% of the wedding, even in darkest of conditions. Strobe lights, colorful disco lights or candle-lit reception venue were all handled without any problems."
so it is confusing for me and do not know buy a z8 or change to canon R6II
virtualkyr
Leading Member
Concur with using a constant LED light to help with focusing.
For events I will bring up to 3 constant LED lights (old Switronix TorchLEDs, now made by Comer it looks like based on what I see at B&H) and those help tremendously with my Z6's and even D750/D7200 focusing at weddings and events.
I also use similar for headshots indoors as well.
For events I will bring up to 3 constant LED lights (old Switronix TorchLEDs, now made by Comer it looks like based on what I see at B&H) and those help tremendously with my Z6's and even D750/D7200 focusing at weddings and events.
I also use similar for headshots indoors as well.
There is no contradiction. Sometimes it is really too dark for AF to work, but most people in this thread do not specify how dark it was when the AF failed. In my experience with Z6ii (Z8 should be not far behind), EV6 level of light reaching the sensor (equivalent to brightly lit night, according to https://omnicalculator.com/other/exposure) is still enough for continuous AF to work reliably on moving people. Probably it goes even darker, but I didn't experience such situations.
I certainly doubt that R6II is much different, after all the technology is very similar.
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olyflyer
Forum Pro
Which sort of events are you talking about...? I mean, in a night club type of light, you would really p!ss off people if you go around torching them with your constant LED torches... But also on weddings and many other events where the photographer should walk around unnoticed. Constant torch light is really very bad when used in dark environment on people, because the pupils will close when you torch them, people will squint, close or cover their eyes.
I also don't know what "head shots indoors" means for you. In a studio? Or just family? I use nothing, or perhaps modelling light in a dark studio.
Modelling light in studio shots is fine because they are pretty dim and scattered, but torch light is a poor idea.
olyflyer
Forum Pro
You are right. R6 is not better. They also need AF assist when it's dark.
virtualkyr
Leading Member
I use them anywhere in dim light. Mostly wedding receptions for that. First dances, cake cuttings, garter toss, exit, speeches. Especially if doing video.
I use 1 for headshots to to make the pupils small so you can see color in the eyes.
I've used them at parades and other events too, when shooting video.
Super handy for sure.
I use 1 for headshots to to make the pupils small so you can see color in the eyes.
I've used them at parades and other events too, when shooting video.
Super handy for sure.
olyflyer
Forum Pro
Yes, well, for video there is no alternative...
but I would not use it for stills. YMMV so if it works for you, that's fine, but it's not a good solution at all for stills. Also, small pupils look weird and unnatural in my opinion. Large pupils give a warm and friendly look. That's why modelling light are weak and dimmed.--
https://www.youtube.com/@AdaptingCamera/videos
https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com/2022/05/auto-focus-light-extender-for.html
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