Regor250
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Any chance of an OM-1 firmware update dropping ?
- Thread starter Andrew Ellis
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Sorely needed! My Z9 sorely needs AF upgrade for automobiles. It cannot figure out what part of the vehicle the driver resides. My OM1 has no such trouble (and costs 1/3 the Z9).
Cornflake7
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It will never happen, as it has been discontinued in Europe since July. And when you see how slow they are with current OM-1 support...
Messier Object
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this is exactly my point.
There was no update to the E-M1III and that is evidence to suggest that there won’t be one for the OM-1
drj3
Forum Pro
I am not sure what people expect for new firmware updates. Do they expect a new feature, that will probably not happen. The only significant update that I think could be accomplished is human identification.
I keep reading that there are no significant improvements. All I can say is that most must not be aware of the improvements in CAF focusing. I test focusing accuracy and variability. Firmware 1.3 and 1.4 improved CAF focusing with low illumination, improved its focus accuracy by reducing it jumping to detail outside the focus box and reduced focus variation for both CAF and SAF.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
"this is exactly my point.
There was no update to the E-M1III and that is evidence to suggest that there won’t be one for the OM-1"
I respectfully disagree. The EM1.3 was probably not updated because the OM-1 was in the works. The EM1.3 was an interim step, a small improvement with a few new features based around a new processor with the same sensor and some new firmware.
The OM-1 has a new sensor, image process and firmware. The hardware is much different enabling new and better capabilities. I think OMS will be sticking with this sensor for a while unless they decide to market a camera wiht the 25MP sensor Panasonic is using. There are significant complaints about operation and the AF system by some who think it is not as good as N, S, C, F, should be and could be.
OMS should know the ASP (unit sales and average price) of the OM-1 will fall if the issues are not corrected to the satisfaction of reviewers and users who post complaints about it.
I can see with a camera like the EM10.3 with a new sensor and the significant change from 16 to 20MP comin soon, it did not make sense to update the firmware, rather get the EM10.4 to market instead and leave a gap between the 3 and the 4 to incent buyers to go for the new camera.
You can see even now EM1.2 and EM1.2 owners wondering if they should trade up to the OM-1. If OMS wants to make the next body enticing it needs to be significantly better than the OM-1. If OMS wants the OM-1 to sell well at a good MSRP, and be considered a competitive and capable halo camera for the brand for five years compared with other brands they are going to have to continue to enhance it from time to time. I think they know this. If the have the engineering resources, I don't know.
I don't think enough time has passed to know what they will do, if they are working on firmware enhancements or no. I feel like any speculation on the subject by outsiders is just that. A wild guess, driven emotionally by owners who want something better. I don't think there is enough evidence for anything better than that. It will be informed with time.
The EM1.2 wasn't anything great compared with the EM1.1 except for better build quality and the 20MP sensor. The AF system didn't improve much until FW 3.0 and that took a while. It may take longer for the OM-1 to mature but I thik it's too early to say that it won't evolve and improve from here before a replacement product is available. It will take a hardware leap for that I think. FW enhancement is easier, less costly, and requires half the time and resources. I'm hopeful for a major FM update though also satisfied with the camera as it is. I think it's a great value and an exceptionally capable body. I don't see that any emergency upgrade is needed but I think OMS knows they will have to improve it to keep up the excitement and keep the orders coming. OLY was in a difficult financial position and owned by a parent company that wanted to exit the business. I think OMS is in a much better position to keep the AF FW engineering enhancements coming. JIT knew what it was getting into when they acquired the OLY camera business. The camera company is selling more product now, probably at better gross margins, and has released new products into the market since, that appear to be doing well to be excited about. There is good reason to think they can enhance the OM-1 firmware significantly to the limits of the hardware. If they will, that's up to JIT and something I can't know, but I'm not ready to believe FW engineering will stop here.
There was no update to the E-M1III and that is evidence to suggest that there won’t be one for the OM-1"
I respectfully disagree. The EM1.3 was probably not updated because the OM-1 was in the works. The EM1.3 was an interim step, a small improvement with a few new features based around a new processor with the same sensor and some new firmware.
The OM-1 has a new sensor, image process and firmware. The hardware is much different enabling new and better capabilities. I think OMS will be sticking with this sensor for a while unless they decide to market a camera wiht the 25MP sensor Panasonic is using. There are significant complaints about operation and the AF system by some who think it is not as good as N, S, C, F, should be and could be.
OMS should know the ASP (unit sales and average price) of the OM-1 will fall if the issues are not corrected to the satisfaction of reviewers and users who post complaints about it.
I can see with a camera like the EM10.3 with a new sensor and the significant change from 16 to 20MP comin soon, it did not make sense to update the firmware, rather get the EM10.4 to market instead and leave a gap between the 3 and the 4 to incent buyers to go for the new camera.
You can see even now EM1.2 and EM1.2 owners wondering if they should trade up to the OM-1. If OMS wants to make the next body enticing it needs to be significantly better than the OM-1. If OMS wants the OM-1 to sell well at a good MSRP, and be considered a competitive and capable halo camera for the brand for five years compared with other brands they are going to have to continue to enhance it from time to time. I think they know this. If the have the engineering resources, I don't know.
I don't think enough time has passed to know what they will do, if they are working on firmware enhancements or no. I feel like any speculation on the subject by outsiders is just that. A wild guess, driven emotionally by owners who want something better. I don't think there is enough evidence for anything better than that. It will be informed with time.
The EM1.2 wasn't anything great compared with the EM1.1 except for better build quality and the 20MP sensor. The AF system didn't improve much until FW 3.0 and that took a while. It may take longer for the OM-1 to mature but I thik it's too early to say that it won't evolve and improve from here before a replacement product is available. It will take a hardware leap for that I think. FW enhancement is easier, less costly, and requires half the time and resources. I'm hopeful for a major FM update though also satisfied with the camera as it is. I think it's a great value and an exceptionally capable body. I don't see that any emergency upgrade is needed but I think OMS knows they will have to improve it to keep up the excitement and keep the orders coming. OLY was in a difficult financial position and owned by a parent company that wanted to exit the business. I think OMS is in a much better position to keep the AF FW engineering enhancements coming. JIT knew what it was getting into when they acquired the OLY camera business. The camera company is selling more product now, probably at better gross margins, and has released new products into the market since, that appear to be doing well to be excited about. There is good reason to think they can enhance the OM-1 firmware significantly to the limits of the hardware. If they will, that's up to JIT and something I can't know, but I'm not ready to believe FW engineering will stop here.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
I agree. People are saying things out of ignorance because they like to complain. Some do not have an OM-1 to test, don't know what they're talking about, and don't care if they do or they don't so they post anyway. They will never be satisfied and don't want to be. They would have to find something else to complain about.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
You may be right that new FW will not increase sales but it's a labor-intensive ongoing effort. They need to learn more about tracking and how to improve the AF if they have not reached the hardware limit. Anything they develop/learn for the next product might work on the current one and could be offered if the next product is a year away. In six months the excitement may wind down and revenue with it but if you are right that a MKII will arrive at the end of 2024 a FW update may be too close to that date and impact the excitement of the MKII - whatever it will be. The next product may be a modest improvement/enancement. I think it will be unless they use a new sensor. That said, if they can offer something appealing in FW 2.0 if it were me, I'd do it sometime in the next six months. I would not feel pressured to do it now.
Eve if you think C,N,S F, and P have a better body the OM-1 is still considerably less expensive a little smaller and lighter for people who find those things appealing. I think I'd work on faster telephoto lenses on the roadmap, get them in the market next. They will need some FW resources for that too. Maybe a refresh of the 40-150 f/2.8 for better bokeh. If successful those things would more add to revenue than FW for the OM-1 I think.
Eve if you think C,N,S F, and P have a better body the OM-1 is still considerably less expensive a little smaller and lighter for people who find those things appealing. I think I'd work on faster telephoto lenses on the roadmap, get them in the market next. They will need some FW resources for that too. Maybe a refresh of the 40-150 f/2.8 for better bokeh. If successful those things would more add to revenue than FW for the OM-1 I think.
C-AF with tracking currently only works well with subject-recognition. They need to add human-figure recognition (instead of just human-face), and they need to make it work without any subject-recognition.
C-AF Tracking is so good in Sony cameras, that you can just lock onto any subject and then compose your shot.
Making C-AF with tracking work properly without subject detection would count as a new feature to me, because I currently find it useless. Since they already claim to offer tracking, they can't really promote improved tracking as a new feature (without admitting how bad the current version is). So there is no benefit to waiting to fix the tracking issues.
Regor250
Veteran Member
I don't disagree that there's room for improvement to catch up with the best of competition. That said it is well known that Tracking and Subject Detection don't work well together. The general advice is to use one or the other, but not both. "Tracking" (as in AF-tracking mode) is subject agnostic, it tracks and focuses on a shape (where focus locked onto) as long as the shape remains recognizable. Subject detection on the other hand doesn't track nor focus, technically; it re-detects a specified subject quickly, where ever it is on each cycle and hands over the position to the focus algorithm, which hopefully can lock onto something and that something in the given position is still there. Subtle difference, but to my understanding the later doesn't do any prediction or focusing on the subjects next position as tracking does, it is just very good at finding, and re-finding subject(s) within the frame and then it's up to the AF to keep up.
I think it just needs a better, more sensitive and sticky human face detection myself and detection of human face from the side or head, not just the eye-nose-mouth triangle. I have never needed people's back in focus, what's the point of that?
You are contradicting yourself to some extent. Human-figure recognition/detection (which aren't quite the same) is "subject-recognition" or more accurately detection (which I think is what you meant). To be clear, human-figure "detection" = this is where a person is, human-figure "recognition" = this human-figure is Paul and not Alice. So in a crowd you could specify focus on Paul's face.
Can't disagree on that... but then which Sony cameras? A equal price point?
P.s. person-recognition would be pretty cool feature I think. Take a photo of someone's face, then select detect this person!
--
Roger
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drj3
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I doubt you will see any significant improvement in C-AF TR. I expect it to be replaced completely by subject recognition. At some point they may automate recognition of different subjects. I don't think the tracking has changed since it was originally introduced in the E-M1,
I do occasionally use it for focus and recompose for a stationary target with CAF by focusing first on the object I want it to keep in focus and then recomposing the framing. I can work better than SAF if you move and change distance to better frame the image since the initial focus object stays in focus.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
Sometimes subject recognition thinks a cat is a person and tracks it.
drj3
Forum Pro
Thats appropriate. My cats also think they are people.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
The OM-1 finds faces and helmets inside cars behind very dirty glass in low light focuses on them and sticks to them.
--
Author of "The Pelican Squadron" - Harvey Gene Sherman
https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-Squadron-Tale-Internet-Bubble-ebook/dp/B08FCY6V7Y
"A great photo can have mediocre IQ, but a mediocre photo cannot be saved by great IQ"
--
Author of "The Pelican Squadron" - Harvey Gene Sherman
https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-Squadron-Tale-Internet-Bubble-ebook/dp/B08FCY6V7Y
"A great photo can have mediocre IQ, but a mediocre photo cannot be saved by great IQ"
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EZGritz
Veteran Member
Your cats may think they are superior to people and don't need or care about us unless they are hungry or need a scratch.
Not all human subjects have visible faces. What about hockey players wearing helmets or skiiers wearing goggles? What about a bride wearing a veil? Why wouldn't you want to keep her back in focus when she is walking up the aisle?
Non-subject recognition tracking is when you're trying to track an object that the camera doesn't recognize. On a Sony, I can lock tracking on anything (a tree, a mountain) and recompose and the focus will stay on the locked-object. On my OM-1, I can't even track a person unless I can clearly see their face. Even long bangs can frustrate face detect.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
The OM-1 will recognize a person as an animal and track it as if it were a cat or dog using subject detection. I think OMS marketing needs to do a better job of explaining what it can do and how it does it.
I think OMS has a marketing communications problem that fails the products and prevents photographers from understanding what they can do and how to do it. I have to go to Utube to learn it. If a Utuber with no factory relationship can figure it out and present it why can't the factory do it?
I think OMS has a marketing communications problem that fails the products and prevents photographers from understanding what they can do and how to do it. I have to go to Utube to learn it. If a Utuber with no factory relationship can figure it out and present it why can't the factory do it?
Cornflake7
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You forgot that a G9ii has been released and ppl with old cameras have two options now. It looks like that a G9ii has better face&eye AF, AFC and video. It would be wise to release a firmware for OM-1 to adress performance/functions in areas ppl would buy a G9ii. FW has its merits, it can regain an appeal for a product from new ppl or prevent current owners in buing a competitor's model.
EZGritz
Veteran Member
I forgot nothing. Your analysis/opinion is different.
The OM1 could not have this market to itself forever. It has merits the Pany body does not and lens function compatiblity issues remain. I'm not convinced the 9II is a better body. In some ways, it isn't as good. If I had to choose now I'd still buy the OM-1. The G9II doesn't interest me at all, not even slightly. It's bigger, heavier and more expensive. It wlll sell and some buyers will choose it instead of the OM1 but owners will not dump their OM-1s and switch over in droves nor will new buyers.
You don't know what OMS will do. They might release new FW; they may not need to.
The OM1 could not have this market to itself forever. It has merits the Pany body does not and lens function compatiblity issues remain. I'm not convinced the 9II is a better body. In some ways, it isn't as good. If I had to choose now I'd still buy the OM-1. The G9II doesn't interest me at all, not even slightly. It's bigger, heavier and more expensive. It wlll sell and some buyers will choose it instead of the OM1 but owners will not dump their OM-1s and switch over in droves nor will new buyers.
You don't know what OMS will do. They might release new FW; they may not need to.
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