Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
Which cameras are you using PL7 with?
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DXO PL7 vs Capture 1 Pro
- Thread starter CompleteUtterNonsense
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Thanks for the luminance mask explanation. Looks like it could be useful. Can you save a luminance mask into your default style? or multiple luminance masks?You can adjust tones and many other things in any brightness range you like.
For example, let's start with a simple linear gradient:
Simple linear gradient
Now let's use the Highlights tone control at its maximum setting (-100):
Highlights tone control -100
As you can see, this has reduced not just the highlights but the midrange and to a lesser extent, even the shadows. So let's use a luminance mask to only reduce the actual highlights:
Luminance mask to reduce highlights only
As you can see, this has produced a much more concentrated effect
If I compare them:
As can be seen, the Luminance mask can be used to limit the effect to any part of the range
Note that you could pick any other range(s).
It's pretty easy in PL to copy all or selected edit settings from one to other image(s). Just a couple of right clicks.
PL also lets you create presets with whichever settings you want, which won't affect any other settings. Just use the preset editor.
Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
As many as you like. I plan to set up some. fairly extreme adjustments, then vary the opacity to control their strengths. And, of course, they can control not just exposure, but also things like CVP, saturation, micro contrast, etc.Thanks for the luminance mask explanation. Looks like it could be useful. Can you save a luminance mask into your default style? or multiple luminance masks?You can adjust tones and many other things in any brightness range you like.
For example, let's start with a simple linear gradient:
Simple linear gradient
Now let's use the Highlights tone control at its maximum setting (-100):
Highlights tone control -100
As you can see, this has reduced not just the highlights but the midrange and to a lesser extent, even the shadows. So let's use a luminance mask to only reduce the actual highlights:
Luminance mask to reduce highlights only
As you can see, this has produced a much more concentrated effect
If I compare them:
As can be seen, the Luminance mask can be used to limit the effect to any part of the range
Note that you could pick any other range(s).
It's pretty easy in PL to copy all or selected edit settings from one to other image(s). Just a couple of right clicks.
PL also lets you create presets with whichever settings you want, which won't affect any other settings. Just use the preset editor.
IanYorke
Veteran Member
Hi Nigel, just playing with a greyscale image that contains bands at 0 and 255. Just noticed that DXO Highlight slider does not have any effect on the 255 band. Is this why people think that highlight recovery in DXO isn't as good as other software?
Ian
ok great, might go for fp after all these years. currently processing a batch of old Olympus epm1 files and dxo really does help with this old camera.As many as you like. I plan to set up some. fairly extreme adjustments, then vary the opacity to control their strengths. And, of course, they can control not just exposure, but also things like CVP, saturation, micro contrast, etc.Thanks for the luminance mask explanation. Looks like it could be useful. Can you save a luminance mask into your default style? or multiple luminance masks?You can adjust tones and many other things in any brightness range you like.
For example, let's start with a simple linear gradient:
Simple linear gradient
Now let's use the Highlights tone control at its maximum setting (-100):
Highlights tone control -100
As you can see, this has reduced not just the highlights but the midrange and to a lesser extent, even the shadows. So let's use a luminance mask to only reduce the actual highlights:
Luminance mask to reduce highlights only
As you can see, this has produced a much more concentrated effect
If I compare them:
As can be seen, the Luminance mask can be used to limit the effect to any part of the range
Note that you could pick any other range(s).
It's pretty easy in PL to copy all or selected edit settings from one to other image(s). Just a couple of right clicks.
PL also lets you create presets with whichever settings you want, which won't affect any other settings. Just use the preset editor.
Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
It might be — it was a surprise to me, too. Also, I was equally surprised just how far down the scale is affected by the Highlights slider. I think my control is much closer to being a real highlights control.
I'll make shadows and midtones versions tomorrow.
IanYorke
Veteran Member
Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
I don't think they would make an incompatible change to the current controls, plus they must have a reason for doing it the current way. I suspect it probably produces better looking images for typical users than more extreme versions.
IanYorke
Veteran Member
The Highlight control having no effect on a pixel value of 255 is a major failing and not what any normal user would expect. It also looks like the Blacks slider behaves in the same way ie it does nothing to a pixel level of 0.
I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
).To me this behaviour makes no sense, doesn't fit in with every other editing program. The only way you can bring down all the highlights is to use the curves tool, but this can't be used locally. Obviously you can use the exposure control to reduce everything and this can apply locally but it's reducing exposure and not just highlights. This just looks like an own goal by DXO for no apparent reason I can think?
Your idea of using a luma mask doesn't change the Selective Tone sliders behaviour but it does allow the Exposure control to reduce just the selected range of highlights.
At this moment in time my thoughts are "what a kludge".
DXO should fix the Selective Tone sliders or at least provide some explanation as to the reasoning behind the behaviour?
Ian
Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
I think it moves the black point. But one surprise is that it has less effect on the deepest shadows than the shadows slider does!
See my new thread:I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
I'm sure there must be a reason for it, perhaps to protect novice users from producing strangely flat images?
I don't expect it to change the behaviour of the existing controls, as it would be an unwelcome, incompatible change that would affect millions of current images. But it might be possible to add a mode switch, between legacy/narrow mode, or a selectivity slider that defaults to the current behaviour, but allows users to make the controls more specific.
I feel you have made a quite important discovery of how PL's Highlight and other Selective tonal controls work. Have you considered to bring it up at feedback.dxo.com or report it as a bug?I think it moves the black point. But one surprise is that it has less effect on the deepest shadows than the shadows slider does!
See my new thread:I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67385020
I'm sure there must be a reason for it, perhaps to protect novice users from producing strangely flat images?
I don't expect it to change the behaviour of the existing controls, as it would be an unwelcome, incompatible change that would affect millions of current images. But it might be possible to add a mode switch, between legacy/narrow mode, or a selectivity slider that defaults to the current behaviour, but allows users to make the controls more specific.
Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
I don't think it's a bug — it was deliberately designed to work like that, and the smooth, gentle curves produce good looking images most of the time. What it doesn't let you do is to recover just the over-exposed highlights, but the luminance masks provide a flexible solution. I think the Shadows slider probably works in an acceptable way.I feel you have made a quite important discovery of how PL's Highlight and other Selective tonal controls work. Have you considered to bring it up at feedback.dxo.com or report it as a bug?I think it moves the black point. But one surprise is that it has less effect on the deepest shadows than the shadows slider does!
See my new thread:I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67385020
I'm sure there must be a reason for it, perhaps to protect novice users from producing strangely flat images?
I don't expect it to change the behaviour of the existing controls, as it would be an unwelcome, incompatible change that would affect millions of current images. But it might be possible to add a mode switch, between legacy/narrow mode, or a selectivity slider that defaults to the current behaviour, but allows users to make the controls more specific.
I think DxO was well aware of how they're going to be used, hence its highly unusual decision to show the luminance mask button even if it's not enabled. Normally, PL only shows the FP and VP controls if you have access to them. It obviously hopes to sell a lot of copies of FP7!
There is another under-prerformance of PL versus C1: viewing at fit-size. Contrarily to C1 which shows the image in full sharpness at fit size, in PL you have to zoom in to 80% to obtain a full sharpness view, very user unfriendly.
OK, luckily, I got both PL7 and FP 7. I will try on some burnt out highlights....I don't think it's a bug — it was deliberately designed to work like that, and the smooth, gentle curves produce good looking images most of the time. What it doesn't let you do is to recover just the over-exposed highlights, but the luminance masks provide a flexible solution. I think the Shadows slider probably works in an acceptable way.I feel you have made a quite important discovery of how PL's Highlight and other Selective tonal controls work. Have you considered to bring it up at feedback.dxo.com or report it as a bug?I think it moves the black point. But one surprise is that it has less effect on the deepest shadows than the shadows slider does!
See my new thread:I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67385020
I'm sure there must be a reason for it, perhaps to protect novice users from producing strangely flat images?
I don't expect it to change the behaviour of the existing controls, as it would be an unwelcome, incompatible change that would affect millions of current images. But it might be possible to add a mode switch, between legacy/narrow mode, or a selectivity slider that defaults to the current behaviour, but allows users to make the controls more specific.
I think DxO was well aware of how they're going to be used, hence its highly unusual decision to show the luminance mask button even if it's not enabled. Normally, PL only shows the FP and VP controls if you have access to them. It obviously hopes to sell a lot of copies of FP7!
Digital Nigel
Forum Pro
I'm normally careful not to over-expose my shots, so I had to shoot some test shots specially to test out these controls.OK, luckily, I got both PL7 and FP 7. I will try on some burnt out highlights....I don't think it's a bug — it was deliberately designed to work like that, and the smooth, gentle curves produce good looking images most of the time. What it doesn't let you do is to recover just the over-exposed highlights, but the luminance masks provide a flexible solution. I think the Shadows slider probably works in an acceptable way.I feel you have made a quite important discovery of how PL's Highlight and other Selective tonal controls work. Have you considered to bring it up at feedback.dxo.com or report it as a bug?I think it moves the black point. But one surprise is that it has less effect on the deepest shadows than the shadows slider does!
See my new thread:I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67385020
I'm sure there must be a reason for it, perhaps to protect novice users from producing strangely flat images?
I don't expect it to change the behaviour of the existing controls, as it would be an unwelcome, incompatible change that would affect millions of current images. But it might be possible to add a mode switch, between legacy/narrow mode, or a selectivity slider that defaults to the current behaviour, but allows users to make the controls more specific.
I think DxO was well aware of how they're going to be used, hence its highly unusual decision to show the luminance mask button even if it's not enabled. Normally, PL only shows the FP and VP controls if you have access to them. It obviously hopes to sell a lot of copies of FP7!
Many thanks, I got the "Beyond Film Style Pack" for free.
I'm sure I will find quite a lot of them as I occasionally do bracketing for HDR processing.I'm normally careful not to over-expose my shots, so I had to shoot some test shots specially to test out these controls.OK, luckily, I got both PL7 and FP 7. I will try on some burnt out highlights....I don't think it's a bug — it was deliberately designed to work like that, and the smooth, gentle curves produce good looking images most of the time. What it doesn't let you do is to recover just the over-exposed highlights, but the luminance masks provide a flexible solution. I think the Shadows slider probably works in an acceptable way.I feel you have made a quite important discovery of how PL's Highlight and other Selective tonal controls work. Have you considered to bring it up at feedback.dxo.com or report it as a bug?I think it moves the black point. But one surprise is that it has less effect on the deepest shadows than the shadows slider does!
See my new thread:I think it explains all the comments on these forums about highlight recovery. Not effecting 255 just makes the transition between high highlights and any 255 values look even worse.
You can get the highlight clipping warning to turn off by reducing the Highlight Tonal Contrast slider but when you use the Selective Tone highlight slider it still doesn't effect the bar in the greyscale that was 255?????
Question is what does the Selective Tone slider do on a bar where RGB values are 255,254,254?
Time has meant that I haven't been able to test fully and unfortunately, I am away for the next few days so can't investigate this (hint
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67385020
I'm sure there must be a reason for it, perhaps to protect novice users from producing strangely flat images?
I don't expect it to change the behaviour of the existing controls, as it would be an unwelcome, incompatible change that would affect millions of current images. But it might be possible to add a mode switch, between legacy/narrow mode, or a selectivity slider that defaults to the current behaviour, but allows users to make the controls more specific.
I think DxO was well aware of how they're going to be used, hence its highly unusual decision to show the luminance mask button even if it's not enabled. Normally, PL only shows the FP and VP controls if you have access to them. It obviously hopes to sell a lot of copies of FP7!
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