Versatility vs. IQ vs. Size.

28mm is wide enough for landscape and 90mm is adequate for portraits. What do you want outside that range?
I get the "wide" part for landscapes. Why the 90mm for portraits? Is that when you zoom in from a distance? I remember to recall that 50mm is the most suitable for a portrait, because it doesn't deform the face and results in realistic proportions.

What I would want outside that range? Well I can imagine seeing a nice church and wanting to photograph the top part where the clock and bells are. Or I can imagine myself walking down a boulevard and wanting to photograph a boat that is arriving. So I definitely would want some extra zoom range, but I am not sure how much I need for situations like that.
 
I totally get what you are saying. Makes sense. Subject, composition, lighting all impact your final outcome. But ... that is not exactly what I meant. I understand that eventually it's me who has to make a nice picture. But to be able to do that, I need the best gear that fits my needs, and my wallet.
The gear can determine how good your photos look if you're pushing limits - printing huge, for example. But for web/HDTV displays and even modestly big prints (13x19 desktop prints and even 20x30" prints hung on a wall) it really doesn't matter. So the gear is more about what you can shoot and how well you can shoot it.
Clear.
In other words, the potential outcome could be better with the better equipment.
Better how? In measurable terms you can only see if you're comparing images side by side at 100%? No matter what you buy, there's always something better. It would be a shame to prioritize image quality that will never make a difference in real life over usability that affects whether you want to take the camera out in the first place. Or the ability to shoot shallow depth of field or action or whatever else you might want to shoot.
Good point. Food for thought!
For example a bridge camera could be an option, but will it produce images as good as for example an APS-C camera,
Does it matter?
It does matter in the sense of I want to see good quality images, nice colors, sharp, no noise, no dark parts (like vignetting). I am afraid a bridge camera will not have the same quality as a separate lens because compromises would have to be made for such a long zoom range in a (relatively) compact body.
But there have been more complaints concerning "tele-softness" from long-zooms on APS/FF cameras than the (praised sharpness) of the Leica & Zeiss zooms on the FZ1000 & RX10-IV cameras, (400 & 600mm-EFL @ f/2.4-4).
If I would shoot the exact same picture with a RX100 VII and a Fuji X-S20, would you be able to see the difference in the end result?
What's the end result?
That's actually a very good question! Mainly the end result will be a picture being stored on my computer. I have quite a good monitor (resolution 2560x1440 pixels) . I want to watch my pictures in good quality on my monitor, preferably taken in a higher resolution than my monitor, so I can also zoom in to see nice details.
I do want zoom, I do want a compact solution, but at the same time I want good image quality.
Every camera delivers good image quality. It's hard to pick based on image quality when you don't know what your requirements are.
As I said, nice colors, sharp image, no noise (in daylight). I want the quality to match the quality of a picture taken by a pro with professional equipment.
What is more important ... ultimate-optimate IQ from an image that does NOT exist or very-good IQ from an image that DOES exist, (because of unique features from a specific camera ???
That is a very good point. I do think there will be some compromises in image quality. An $ 750 camera can't have the same quality as a $ 1.500 or $ 2.000 camera I would assume. I would have to dive further into this. But I do definitely get the point about getting a shot or not.
Just an aside, but along the same vein. You never mention whether you will be alone or in company if others when you visit the cites, etc. Sometimes with too much (or too big) of kit you run the risk of being “that camera guy”. After being the downer of the party, those big kits get left at home…. Or you get left.
I will be alone. I would like to be able to take real good pictures. I would not like to carry too much heavy stuff though, because I would like the trip itself as well. If the gear is too heavy and I am aware of the fact that I am carrying something all the time, then the fun will soon be over. Hence the compromise between image quality, zoom range and size. It doesn't necessary have to be as small as a small compact, but I don't want it to be bulky as a FF camera with a very big lens.
And I mean that in a relatively "easy" situation like in daylight with no moving subjects. I understand the pro and his pro camera will product better results with fast moving objects or in more difficult situations like in the evening when it's darker. My current camera, though being compact and having a long zoom range, does not produce the nicest images in terms of image quality. Yes, it's acceptable, but I want to go the next step, otherwise there would not be a reason for me to buy a new camera. I could just keep using my current one.
Compact like RX 100 VII, bridge, M4/3 or APS-C? What would you do if you were in my shoes and had to spend around $ 1.000 to $ 2.500?
Assuming you want to treat photography as a hobby and not just get good pictures now and then, I'd go with a subset of my current kit: Nikon Z5 with 24-200 and the 40/2 for those cozy restaurant shots ;) Or if it falls in the budget, upgrade to a Z6II (even used) for improved autofocus (though if mostly shooting static scenes, like I do, it's overkill).
Thanks, I'll be checking that out!
Note that I'm going after convenience here and minimizing lens changes. If you need 2+ lenses to cover wide to tele, it means a camera bag and frequent lens changes and gets to be a nuisance. I'm happy to do that out shooting nature with a tripod, but not walking around a city or on vacation. That's a conscious tradeoff between convenience and image quality (though I'm sure a 20x30" print made with the 24-200 would look fine by my standards). The small, fast prime fits in a jacket pocket or backpack or any small bag you're carrying and lens changes are infrequent - swap it when you go from outdoors to indoors or when light levels fall at night. Not every time you need to go from wide to tele!

Micro 4/3 with the 12-100/4 and fast prime (20/1.8 or 17/1.7) is another option, but the m43 bodies I like (with a decent grip and good VF) are pricey and the 12-100 costs more than the Nikon 24-200.

If you can convince yourself that 24-120 range instead of 24-200 is good enough, then a m43 body with the 12-60/2.8-4 would be less expensive and more compact - a tempting option.

A Sony FF body with 28-200 and a fast compact prime is another option. The more desirable bodies tend to be pricey and the affordable bodies tend to be old :(

I love the idea of simplifying down to a bridge camera and a compact digicam, but as even though my brain acknowledges that the image quality is good enough, I still find results from APS-C (and certainly full frame) more satisfying.
This is interesting :-) Can you explain why/how you find the results from APS-C or FF more satisfying? What makes the difference?
I would not, personally, recommend Fuji. The lens lineup has a great reputation, but I find the midrange zooms lacking. An X-S10 would be a great choice and the 18-135 would probably still be a match for a bridge camera, and then a small f/2 prime for low light would be an okay kit. The 16-80 is has great specs and is very compact; it doesn't review well due to subpar corner sharpness, but I've seen nice results online from it (gets back to the whole question of how good is good enough - we can look at all these lens tests that show lens A is so much better than lens B, then look at photos that look great from both of them).

I would not recommend Nikon APS-C because of the lack of in-body image stabilization (otherwise the 18-140 and 24/1.8 would be a nice, light, inexpensive kit). Sony APS-C is good, but the better stuff available for it is expensive and I'm not sure there are any good wide-ranging zooms.

The 1" sensor bridge cameras are great - most people could be happy with the image quality in online displays, HDTVs, prints to 13x19 (and bigger if shot well). You don't have the shallow DOF option in low light (unless you add a second camera). And as handy as I find my RX10 III for travel, I don't find it so enjoyable to shoot with the power zoom (I believe the FZ1000 II has that as well?) smaller viewfinder (harder to use with my eyeglasses) and controls that I don't love.

It's all tradeoffs. I recommend downloading some samples and viewing them however you plan to view your photos - on a TV, printed, whatever. (You can save money by printing 1/4 of an image instead of a whole image) ... 1/4 image at 8x12 instead of full image at 16x24, for example. And see if you can try out whatever you're thinking about.
Thanks for your great answer!
 
I am also interested to see the image quality during normal circumstances (daylight). How do Fuji APS-C, Sony RX100, Nikon Z5, Olympus/Panasonic M4/3 perform?
In daylight at full screen, any darn camera with any size sensor made in the last 10 years or so does well, but, as the pixel peep increases and/or the light levels get lower, then it is bleedingly obvious that the larger sensors do better.
Zoom range ... I do not have a clear idea of what zoom ranges are used to capture what kind of subjects. For example, I heard mentioned a 16-80 mm lens, but also a 24-120 of 24-200 mm lens. Can you explain what these zoom ranges are typically used for? Are there advantages or disadvantages that come with a smaller or longer zoom range?
Years back in my film era days and with various camera clubs we used to discuss what what was a useful camera for a traveller and general photos. It was decided that 28-200mm was ideal as the zoom for 35mm film was not too big for all day carrying and really that was the only lens needed for most occasions. Chasing wildlife and birding of course was another matter altogether and no tele lens was ever long enough for that.

Every bird that exists has already been photographed and up on the web somewhere, so why repeat that? For me it is far more enjoyable to simply sit and watch the birds behaviour, no need to freeze them into a photo, maybe a video would be better but then, I just like to observe birds and wildlife and let it stick in my memory. Others will disagree.

Many years later I settled on the Sony RX100M6 for my compact and that (or the RX100M7) is ideal for a traveller with its "24-200mm" lens that is good even wide open despite its small maximum apertures. Compared to what I get from my M4/3 gear it all looks the same in daylight shots but as light falls I had better be using my M4/3 gear as the difference then is obvious.

I'm getting too old now to bother but really I should move to Full Frame gear to get what I really want in those occasional low light situations. But all that money and size just for a few low light shots when by far the most of my shots are in daylight or maybe slightly subdued light interiors.
It is something to consider whether or not to go FF. The FF cameras are also getting smaller. They are quite expensive though.
For me it really works out that the little Sony RX100M6 gives me nearly everything I need, and if low light then use tricks of the camera and also of course raw files and DxO Photolab7 to get superb noise reduction. It honestly could be my only camera, just as it is my wife's only camera (yes, two Sonys in the family) and she usually takes more shots than I do when on holidays.

Don't be afraid of noise, dead clean images can sometimes look too plastic so really need to avoid that over -processed low noise shots.
That is true. I don't like pictures that are clean(ed) from noise. It can make them look artificial. Maybe I am wrong, but I tend to think that Canon cameras by default do some "smoothing" to please the crowd. Many consumers will probably like them straight out the box, but for me they are too artificial. That's why I like Nikon or Fuji better.
Many photo edit suites have options to add noise/grain to get a more film-like look, that "grain" nicely hides the fact that at great enlargements the true fine detail was not really captured properly.

Anything that has a bigger sensor than the HX99 will give better results in a wider range of lighting, but as you move up in sensor sizes then getting back to that up to "720mm" performance gets way harder and way more expensive to achieve
I will keep this in mind.
.

Anyway, whatever you may get in a system camera, be it M4/3, APS-C or FF then there will still always be a case for a small and reliable compact to use in situations where "big" cameras are too awkward or are simply banned from being used.
That is true. I can keep my current camera for situations like that. I do not have the money to buy a new compact as well as a M4/3, APS-C or FF camera. :-)
 
I totally get what you are saying. Makes sense. Subject, composition, lighting all impact your final outcome. But ... that is not exactly what I meant. I understand that eventually it's me who has to make a nice picture. But to be able to do that, I need the best gear that fits my needs, and my wallet.
The gear can determine how good your photos look if you're pushing limits - printing huge, for example. But for web/HDTV displays and even modestly big prints (13x19 desktop prints and even 20x30" prints hung on a wall) it really doesn't matter. So the gear is more about what you can shoot and how well you can shoot it.
Clear.
In other words, the potential outcome could be better with the better equipment.
Better how? In measurable terms you can only see if you're comparing images side by side at 100%? No matter what you buy, there's always something better. It would be a shame to prioritize image quality that will never make a difference in real life over usability that affects whether you want to take the camera out in the first place. Or the ability to shoot shallow depth of field or action or whatever else you might want to shoot.
Good point. Food for thought!
For example a bridge camera could be an option, but will it produce images as good as for example an APS-C camera,
Does it matter?
It does matter in the sense of I want to see good quality images, nice colors, sharp, no noise, no dark parts (like vignetting). I am afraid a bridge camera will not have the same quality as a separate lens because compromises would have to be made for such a long zoom range in a (relatively) compact body.
But there have been more complaints concerning "tele-softness" from long-zooms on APS/FF cameras than the (praised sharpness) of the Leica & Zeiss zooms on the FZ1000 & RX10-IV cameras, (400 & 600mm-EFL @ f/2.4-4).
If I would shoot the exact same picture with a RX100 VII and a Fuji X-S20, would you be able to see the difference in the end result?
What's the end result?
That's actually a very good question! Mainly the end result will be a picture being stored on my computer. I have quite a good monitor (resolution 2560x1440 pixels) . I want to watch my pictures in good quality on my monitor, preferably taken in a higher resolution than my monitor, so I can also zoom in to see nice details.
I do want zoom, I do want a compact solution, but at the same time I want good image quality.
Every camera delivers good image quality. It's hard to pick based on image quality when you don't know what your requirements are.
As I said, nice colors, sharp image, no noise (in daylight). I want the quality to match the quality of a picture taken by a pro with professional equipment.
What is more important ... ultimate-optimate IQ from an image that does NOT exist or very-good IQ from an image that DOES exist, (because of unique features from a specific camera ???
That is a very good point. I do think there will be some compromises in image quality. An $ 750 camera can't have the same quality as a $ 1.500 or $ 2.000 camera I would assume. I would have to dive further into this. But I do definitely get the point about getting a shot or not.
Just an aside, but along the same vein. You never mention whether you will be alone or in company if others when you visit the cites, etc. Sometimes with too much (or too big) of kit you run the risk of being “that camera guy”. After being the downer of the party, those big kits get left at home…. Or you get left.
I will be alone. I would like to be able to take real good pictures. I would not like to carry too much heavy stuff though, because I would like the trip itself as well. If the gear is too heavy and I am aware of the fact that I am carrying something all the time, then the fun will soon be over. Hence the compromise between image quality, zoom range and size. It doesn't necessary have to be as small as a small compact, but I don't want it to be bulky as a FF camera with a very big lens.
good ideas. In your other response to question how much zoom for church steeples etc. My “long” travel zoom is my 150mm Olympus f/4 Pro (300mmff equiv) and seems to be plenty and also does double duty for bug close ups… and us small and light.
And I mean that in a relatively "easy" situation like in daylight with no moving subjects. I understand the pro and his pro camera will product better results with fast moving objects or in more difficult situations like in the evening when it's darker. My current camera, though being compact and having a long zoom range, does not produce the nicest images in terms of image quality. Yes, it's acceptable, but I want to go the next step, otherwise there would not be a reason for me to buy a new camera. I could just keep using my current one.
Compact like RX 100 VII, bridge, M4/3 or APS-C? What would you do if you were in my shoes and had to spend around $ 1.000 to $ 2.500?
Assuming you want to treat photography as a hobby and not just get good pictures now and then, I'd go with a subset of my current kit: Nikon Z5 with 24-200 and the 40/2 for those cozy restaurant shots ;) Or if it falls in the budget, upgrade to a Z6II (even used) for improved autofocus (though if mostly shooting static scenes, like I do, it's overkill).
Thanks, I'll be checking that out!
Note that I'm going after convenience here and minimizing lens changes. If you need 2+ lenses to cover wide to tele, it means a camera bag and frequent lens changes and gets to be a nuisance. I'm happy to do that out shooting nature with a tripod, but not walking around a city or on vacation. That's a conscious tradeoff between convenience and image quality (though I'm sure a 20x30" print made with the 24-200 would look fine by my standards). The small, fast prime fits in a jacket pocket or backpack or any small bag you're carrying and lens changes are infrequent - swap it when you go from outdoors to indoors or when light levels fall at night. Not every time you need to go from wide to tele!

Micro 4/3 with the 12-100/4 and fast prime (20/1.8 or 17/1.7) is another option, but the m43 bodies I like (with a decent grip and good VF) are pricey and the 12-100 costs more than the Nikon 24-200.

If you can convince yourself that 24-120 range instead of 24-200 is good enough, then a m43 body with the 12-60/2.8-4 would be less expensive and more compact - a tempting option.

A Sony FF body with 28-200 and a fast compact prime is another option. The more desirable bodies tend to be pricey and the affordable bodies tend to be old :(

I love the idea of simplifying down to a bridge camera and a compact digicam, but as even though my brain acknowledges that the image quality is good enough, I still find results from APS-C (and certainly full frame) more satisfying.
This is interesting :-) Can you explain why/how you find the results from APS-C or FF more satisfying? What makes the difference?
I would not, personally, recommend Fuji. The lens lineup has a great reputation, but I find the midrange zooms lacking. An X-S10 would be a great choice and the 18-135 would probably still be a match for a bridge camera, and then a small f/2 prime for low light would be an okay kit. The 16-80 is has great specs and is very compact; it doesn't review well due to subpar corner sharpness, but I've seen nice results online from it (gets back to the whole question of how good is good enough - we can look at all these lens tests that show lens A is so much better than lens B, then look at photos that look great from both of them).

I would not recommend Nikon APS-C because of the lack of in-body image stabilization (otherwise the 18-140 and 24/1.8 would be a nice, light, inexpensive kit). Sony APS-C is good, but the better stuff available for it is expensive and I'm not sure there are any good wide-ranging zooms.

The 1" sensor bridge cameras are great - most people could be happy with the image quality in online displays, HDTVs, prints to 13x19 (and bigger if shot well). You don't have the shallow DOF option in low light (unless you add a second camera). And as handy as I find my RX10 III for travel, I don't find it so enjoyable to shoot with the power zoom (I believe the FZ1000 II has that as well?) smaller viewfinder (harder to use with my eyeglasses) and controls that I don't love.

It's all tradeoffs. I recommend downloading some samples and viewing them however you plan to view your photos - on a TV, printed, whatever. (You can save money by printing 1/4 of an image instead of a whole image) ... 1/4 image at 8x12 instead of full image at 16x24, for example. And see if you can try out whatever you're thinking about.
Thanks for your great answer!
 
You seem like a prime candidate for a Sony RX100 VII …
If size is his priority, and lack of tele or low-light is not a major issue ... yes ...

But I assume he is used to his prior 720mm-EFL ... so the RX10-IV would be closer ... (BUT ... it does NOT have a FULLY-Articulating/Reversible LCD so to me it would be limited to sports/wildlife/birding).
What is "a FULLY-Articulating/Reversible LCD"? What do you mean by that?
The FZ1000-II can still do 800mm-EFL with its 20mpx interpolated-zoom, and does have the FA-LCD for more overall versatility for family/travel etc. use. (and is cheaper)

Both have faster lenses than the RX100 series.
 
I totally get what you are saying. Makes sense. Subject, composition, lighting all impact your final outcome. But ... that is not exactly what I meant. I understand that eventually it's me who has to make a nice picture. But to be able to do that, I need the best gear that fits my needs, and my wallet.
The gear can determine how good your photos look if you're pushing limits - printing huge, for example. But for web/HDTV displays and even modestly big prints (13x19 desktop prints and even 20x30" prints hung on a wall) it really doesn't matter. So the gear is more about what you can shoot and how well you can shoot it.
Clear.
In other words, the potential outcome could be better with the better equipment.
Better how? In measurable terms you can only see if you're comparing images side by side at 100%? No matter what you buy, there's always something better. It would be a shame to prioritize image quality that will never make a difference in real life over usability that affects whether you want to take the camera out in the first place. Or the ability to shoot shallow depth of field or action or whatever else you might want to shoot.
Good point. Food for thought!
For example a bridge camera could be an option, but will it produce images as good as for example an APS-C camera,
Does it matter?
It does matter in the sense of I want to see good quality images, nice colors, sharp, no noise, no dark parts (like vignetting). I am afraid a bridge camera will not have the same quality as a separate lens because compromises would have to be made for such a long zoom range in a (relatively) compact body.
But there have been more complaints concerning "tele-softness" from long-zooms on APS/FF cameras than the (praised sharpness) of the Leica & Zeiss zooms on the FZ1000 & RX10-IV cameras, (400 & 600mm-EFL @ f/2.4-4).
If I would shoot the exact same picture with a RX100 VII and a Fuji X-S20, would you be able to see the difference in the end result?
What's the end result?
That's actually a very good question! Mainly the end result will be a picture being stored on my computer. I have quite a good monitor (resolution 2560x1440 pixels) . I want to watch my pictures in good quality on my monitor, preferably taken in a higher resolution than my monitor, so I can also zoom in to see nice details.
I do want zoom, I do want a compact solution, but at the same time I want good image quality.
Every camera delivers good image quality. It's hard to pick based on image quality when you don't know what your requirements are.
As I said, nice colors, sharp image, no noise (in daylight). I want the quality to match the quality of a picture taken by a pro with professional equipment.
What is more important ... ultimate-optimate IQ from an image that does NOT exist or very-good IQ from an image that DOES exist, (because of unique features from a specific camera ???
That is a very good point. I do think there will be some compromises in image quality. An $ 750 camera can't have the same quality as a $ 1.500 or $ 2.000 camera I would assume. I would have to dive further into this. But I do definitely get the point about getting a shot or not.
Just an aside, but along the same vein. You never mention whether you will be alone or in company if others when you visit the cites, etc. Sometimes with too much (or too big) of kit you run the risk of being “that camera guy”. After being the downer of the party, those big kits get left at home…. Or you get left.
I will be alone. I would like to be able to take real good pictures. I would not like to carry too much heavy stuff though, because I would like the trip itself as well. If the gear is too heavy and I am aware of the fact that I am carrying something all the time, then the fun will soon be over. Hence the compromise between image quality, zoom range and size. It doesn't necessary have to be as small as a small compact, but I don't want it to be bulky as a FF camera with a very big lens.
Being alone makes things easier. In one of your other replies you wonder on how much zoom for church steeples, etc. My “long” travel zoom is my OM 40-150 f/4 (80-300 Ff equiv) and that seems to be plenty. It also does double duty as close up lens for bugs and flowers in botanical gardens….. and is small and light..
And I mean that in a relatively "easy" situation like in daylight with no moving subjects. I understand the pro and his pro camera will product better results with fast moving objects or in more difficult situations like in the evening when it's darker. My current camera, though being compact and having a long zoom range, does not produce the nicest images in terms of image quality. Yes, it's acceptable, but I want to go the next step, otherwise there would not be a reason for me to buy a new camera. I could just keep using my current one.
Compact like RX 100 VII, bridge, M4/3 or APS-C? What would you do if you were in my shoes and had to spend around $ 1.000 to $ 2.500?
Assuming you want to treat photography as a hobby and not just get good pictures now and then, I'd go with a subset of my current kit: Nikon Z5 with 24-200 and the 40/2 for those cozy restaurant shots ;) Or if it falls in the budget, upgrade to a Z6II (even used) for improved autofocus (though if mostly shooting static scenes, like I do, it's overkill).
Thanks, I'll be checking that out!
Note that I'm going after convenience here and minimizing lens changes. If you need 2+ lenses to cover wide to tele, it means a camera bag and frequent lens changes and gets to be a nuisance. I'm happy to do that out shooting nature with a tripod, but not walking around a city or on vacation. That's a conscious tradeoff between convenience and image quality (though I'm sure a 20x30" print made with the 24-200 would look fine by my standards). The small, fast prime fits in a jacket pocket or backpack or any small bag you're carrying and lens changes are infrequent - swap it when you go from outdoors to indoors or when light levels fall at night. Not every time you need to go from wide to tele!

Micro 4/3 with the 12-100/4 and fast prime (20/1.8 or 17/1.7) is another option, but the m43 bodies I like (with a decent grip and good VF) are pricey and the 12-100 costs more than the Nikon 24-200.

If you can convince yourself that 24-120 range instead of 24-200 is good enough, then a m43 body with the 12-60/2.8-4 would be less expensive and more compact - a tempting option.

A Sony FF body with 28-200 and a fast compact prime is another option. The more desirable bodies tend to be pricey and the affordable bodies tend to be old :(

I love the idea of simplifying down to a bridge camera and a compact digicam, but as even though my brain acknowledges that the image quality is good enough, I still find results from APS-C (and certainly full frame) more satisfying.
This is interesting :-) Can you explain why/how you find the results from APS-C or FF more satisfying? What makes the difference?
I would not, personally, recommend Fuji. The lens lineup has a great reputation, but I find the midrange zooms lacking. An X-S10 would be a great choice and the 18-135 would probably still be a match for a bridge camera, and then a small f/2 prime for low light would be an okay kit. The 16-80 is has great specs and is very compact; it doesn't review well due to subpar corner sharpness, but I've seen nice results online from it (gets back to the whole question of how good is good enough - we can look at all these lens tests that show lens A is so much better than lens B, then look at photos that look great from both of them).

I would not recommend Nikon APS-C because of the lack of in-body image stabilization (otherwise the 18-140 and 24/1.8 would be a nice, light, inexpensive kit). Sony APS-C is good, but the better stuff available for it is expensive and I'm not sure there are any good wide-ranging zooms.

The 1" sensor bridge cameras are great - most people could be happy with the image quality in online displays, HDTVs, prints to 13x19 (and bigger if shot well). You don't have the shallow DOF option in low light (unless you add a second camera). And as handy as I find my RX10 III for travel, I don't find it so enjoyable to shoot with the power zoom (I believe the FZ1000 II has that as well?) smaller viewfinder (harder to use with my eyeglasses) and controls that I don't love.

It's all tradeoffs. I recommend downloading some samples and viewing them however you plan to view your photos - on a TV, printed, whatever. (You can save money by printing 1/4 of an image instead of a whole image) ... 1/4 image at 8x12 instead of full image at 16x24, for example. And see if you can try out whatever you're thinking about.
Thanks for your great answer!
 
...

good ideas. In your other response to question how much zoom for church steeples etc. My “long” travel zoom is my 150mm Olympus f/4 Pro (300mmff equiv) and seems to be plenty and also does double duty for bug close ups… and us small and light.
Ah, thanks. The Sony RX100 VII has 200mm tele, but I assume that is really 200mm, so it is less than your 300mm ff equivalent?
 
...
good ideas. In your other response to question how much zoom for church steeples etc. My “long” travel zoom is my 150mm Olympus f/4 Pro (300mmff equiv) and seems to be plenty and also does double duty for bug close ups… and us small and light.
Ah, thanks. The Sony RX100 VII has 200mm tele, but I assume that is really 200mm, so it is less than your 300mm ff equivalent?
200 would be OK, I had an Olympus 12-100 for travel (24-200 ff) and it was fine. It was just a bit big for a m43 street lens, IMO so I opted for the much smaller 12-45 and 40-150 combo.
 
28mm is wide enough for landscape and 90mm is adequate for portraits. What do you want outside that range?
I get the "wide" part for landscapes. Why the 90mm for portraits? Is that when you zoom in from a distance? I remember to recall that 50mm is the most suitable for a portrait, because it doesn't deform the face and results in realistic proportions.
It's more like 50mm for full height or near full height and 85mm for head and shoulders and faces. Back in film days I tried 105mm as casual shooter at one wedding and it was a bit too long, too easy to lose touch with the subject. Next wedding as a casual shooter I tried 85mm and it seemed just right.

Basically to keep things right, the distance from camera to subject really should be a traditional human group interaction distance, in western society that would be say 1.5m to maybe 2m distant. That way faces look normal.
What I would want outside that range? Well I can imagine seeing a nice church and wanting to photograph the top part where the clock and bells are.
Maybe the 100mm to 300mm range maximum would be comfortable to use and useful.
Or I can imagine myself walking down a boulevard and wanting to photograph a boat that is arriving.
Anywhere from maybe 20mm to 300mm depending on size of boat and how close you are to it.

Tele lenses over long distances to subjects usually suffer from air movements and make the result look like something out of a small sensor compact (awful at 1:1 pixel peep). So that boat in the distance with long tele may look disappointing.
So I definitely would want some extra zoom range, but I am not sure how much I need for situations like that.
Like I said my compact with "24-200mm" does well for me for general travel and seeing all sorts of things and the 20MP allows for maybe a careful 2x crop to take it to a useful "400mm" if not wanting a huge print.

My usual M4/3 "heavy" kit has three zooms covering "16mm to 200mm" with good overlaps on all. That seems to keep me happy. Others will be different.
 
There is one last thing I would like to learn from you. We discussed some subjects (size, zoom range, IQ, budget) and narrowed down the possibilities. One thing we did not discuss, well we sort of did, but for me it's not totally clear yet ... is "what" I can photograph with a certain camera. With this I mean, with a bridge camera I can zoom in very far (so the "what" could be a bird), but in low-light situations I think it under-performs (more noise compared to APS-C or FF). So it won't be the best choice to take pictures in the evening.
Yes. Given the limitations with sensors we have today, the smaller sensors are no match for the larger ones when it comes to ISO performance and noise.
I truly would like to see some pictures you made yourself with one of the cameras being discussed to show what it is capable of.

I am also interested to see the image quality during normal circumstances (daylight). How do Fuji APS-C, Sony RX100, Nikon Z5, Olympus/Panasonic M4/3 perform?
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison
Zoom range ... I do not have a clear idea of what zoom ranges are used to capture what kind of subjects. For example, I heard mentioned a 16-80 mm lens, but also a 24-120 of 24-200 mm lens. Can you explain what these zoom ranges are typically used for? Are there advantages or disadvantages that come with a smaller or longer zoom range?
https://www.samyanglens.com/en/product/simulator/lens.php

You can also search for Field Of View and Focal Length articles.

Lenses with extensive zoom ranges are generally harder to make while keeping performance decent, is my understanding.
Thank you, that is pretty useful! I compared the image between RX100 VII, Fuji X-T30 and Sony A7C. I can clearly spot the differences. The RX100 is okay, the X-T30 is better, but the A7C surprises me. It is very sharp and clean compared to the others. I wasn't expecting to see such a difference.
 
...
good ideas. In your other response to question how much zoom for church steeples etc. My “long” travel zoom is my 150mm Olympus f/4 Pro (300mmff equiv) and seems to be plenty and also does double duty for bug close ups… and us small and light.
Ah, thanks. The Sony RX100 VII has 200mm tele, but I assume that is really 200mm, so it is less than your 300mm ff equivalent?
200 would be OK, I had an Olympus 12-100 for travel (24-200 ff) and it was fine. It was just a bit big for a m43 street lens, IMO so I opted for the much smaller 12-45 and 40-150 combo.
Okay, thank you! :-)
 
Try flickr - type in the camera (or a lens you might be inclined to use) in the search bar, then click the option to search groups and locate a group dedicated to that camera/lens.
Good advice, I will try!
My smugmug gallery is outdated and I have little uploaded that's arranged by camera. Here's a gallery showing some stuff taken with an older APS-C body with a subpar sensor (NEX-5 with a 14MP sensor that wasn't really great for its day) with the slow 18-55 kit lens ...

https://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com/Other/Disney-18-55-samples/n-h4jR9/

And here's a collection of shots taken with the 10-year old RX100 (1" sensor with 28-100 equivalent f/1.8-4.9 lens):

https://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com/Other/RX100-Samples/
I can't see the originals, but the previews look good!!
 
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It's a wonderful feature to have for landscape photography!

These were all shot with a Fujifilm X-T 2 and and a relatively inexpensive. XC-16-50mm f3.5-5.6 lens.







Wow, these are very nice!! What a beautiful environment that is!
 
28mm is wide enough for landscape and 90mm is adequate for portraits. What do you want outside that range?
I get the "wide" part for landscapes. Why the 90mm for portraits? Is that when you zoom in from a distance? I remember to recall that 50mm is the most suitable for a portrait, because it doesn't deform the face and results in realistic proportions.

What I would want outside that range? Well I can imagine seeing a nice church and wanting to photograph the top part where the clock and bells are. Or I can imagine myself walking down a boulevard and wanting to photograph a boat that is arriving. So I definitely would want some extra zoom range, but I am not sure how much I need for situations like that.
Unless I am getting threads mixed up, didn't you have 720mm-EFL on your existing camera ???

Personally, I very often use 400-800mm-EFL.

If yes ... then how often did you use it ???

And on portraits ... "groups" are often shot at 50mm.

But a "couple" 90mm is better for waist-up.

But for "head/face" shots, often 100 to 200mm is used.
 
You seem like a prime candidate for a Sony RX100 VII …
If size is his priority, and lack of tele or low-light is not a major issue ... yes ...

But I assume he is used to his prior 720mm-EFL ... so the RX10-IV would be closer ... (BUT ... it does NOT have a FULLY-Articulating/Reversible LCD so to me it would be limited to sports/wildlife/birding).
What is "a FULLY-Articulating/Reversible LCD"? What do you mean by that?
They are often referred to as "flip-out" screens -- but there are various designs -- and some only "tilt".

Only a FULLY-Articulating & REVERSIBLE allows shooting from held (very) high (directly) over your head with camera pointing "down", or down low with the camera actually pointing "up". It also allows held off-to-the-side or completely reversed for "selfies".

So basically it extends the envelope of shooting opportunities.

I personally will not have a camera without one since it enables shooting positions now otherwise possible (and "selfies").

Note that I do like the Sony RX10-IV, but I do NOT have one because it does not have the added versatility of the FA-LCD, (that the FZ1000-II does have).

It may not be immediately apparent, but trust me, these would not have been possible without it:

aa79ef537e1342f295f70bf4afa9c721.jpg

3b95ea8799dc421785c02b070cc01ac2.jpg

570c5bd181a841f4a1031e941357b56c.jpg

d1403d3a229743208deac0814da666e1.jpg

89a4d756d1194781bd976bfe50bad344.jpg

3998f147e28148019c95084299b2b9a9.jpg

847e0d50c0b74bbaaff827531df87c90.jpg

de0e045369af48a591aa200957ea35e8.jpg
The FZ1000-II can still do 800mm-EFL with its 20mpx interpolated-zoom, and does have the FA-LCD for more overall versatility for family/travel etc. use. (and is cheaper)

Both have faster lenses than the RX100 series.
 
I love the idea of simplifying down to a bridge camera and a compact digicam, but as even though my brain acknowledges that the image quality is good enough, I still find results from APS-C (and certainly full frame) more satisfying.
This is interesting :-) Can you explain why/how you find the results from APS-C or FF more satisfying? What makes the difference?
It's hard to pinpoint. I think part of it is that none of my RX100/RX10 shots feature shallow depth of field. I wouldn't say shallow DOF shots are prominent in my photos, but they're there and they're important. I have plenty of photos taken in places where the background contributes to the image, but also plenty where it's a distraction that needs to be reduced. And in wildlife photos, my Sigma 100-400 at 400/6.3 on APS-C blurs backgrounds just a bit more than the RX10 at 220ish/4 (both 600mm equivalent). I'd like to go a little faster still when I choose a long tele for my Z5.

The rest of it is probably pixel peeping and feeling good about the image quality in a way that doesn't really matter. Backyard wildlife shots with that Sigma on my D7500 look just a bit crisper than the RX10 III (even though it has an excellent lens) when looking at 100% views. And even though the RX100/10 shots are generally plenty sharp enough, when I look at those 100% views, there's just something a little less "natural" or "photographic" about the images than the larger sensor shots. They don't scream "this was taken with a small sensor compact!" But there's something about them - again, at 100% - that isn't quite as satisfying.
Okay thanks, it would be nice to be able to sometimes blur a background, so it is something to take in consideration.
Only a (larger/heavier) FF camera allows the most versatility of DOF, but it is a DOUBLE-EDGE sword because you MORE OFTEN want a deeper-DOF and often that is not possible with the inherent shallow-DOF of FF.

Note that with an inherent deeper-DOF (from smaller sensor), you can then selectively and controllably create a shallow-DOF when you want/need it. (You cannot later deepen DOF from FF.)

The inherent shallow-DOF was the bane of FF photography and often a thread here where members need deeper-DOF and can't get it (with FF or APS cameras).
Basically, they're good enough that if the cameras themselves were more satisfying, I'd be content with the compromise. But between the usability differences, the lens limitations (shallow DOF mostly) and that slight little IQ difference, it's too much compromise.

If the RX10 IV was redesigned with better (for my tastes) controls, a nice, big, high res EVF, and maybe a manual zoom instead of power zoom (icing on the cake, though it might very well be impossible) then I'd be awfully tempted to own that and a compact (larger sensor) camera with a compact fast prime. But the lens lineup I've settled on gets me close enough with ILCs by allowing me to carry just 1-2 lenses (different lens depending on what I'm doing).
 
I totally get what you are saying. Makes sense. Subject, composition, lighting all impact your final outcome. But ... that is not exactly what I meant. I understand that eventually it's me who has to make a nice picture. But to be able to do that, I need the best gear that fits my needs, and my wallet.
The gear can determine how good your photos look if you're pushing limits - printing huge, for example. But for web/HDTV displays and even modestly big prints (13x19 desktop prints and even 20x30" prints hung on a wall) it really doesn't matter. So the gear is more about what you can shoot and how well you can shoot it.
Clear.
In other words, the potential outcome could be better with the better equipment.
Better how? In measurable terms you can only see if you're comparing images side by side at 100%? No matter what you buy, there's always something better. It would be a shame to prioritize image quality that will never make a difference in real life over usability that affects whether you want to take the camera out in the first place. Or the ability to shoot shallow depth of field or action or whatever else you might want to shoot.
Good point. Food for thought!
For example a bridge camera could be an option, but will it produce images as good as for example an APS-C camera,
Does it matter?
It does matter in the sense of I want to see good quality images, nice colors, sharp, no noise, no dark parts (like vignetting). I am afraid a bridge camera will not have the same quality as a separate lens because compromises would have to be made for such a long zoom range in a (relatively) compact body.
But there have been more complaints concerning "tele-softness" from long-zooms on APS/FF cameras than the (praised sharpness) of the Leica & Zeiss zooms on the FZ1000 & RX10-IV cameras, (400 & 600mm-EFL @ f/2.4-4).
If I would shoot the exact same picture with a RX100 VII and a Fuji X-S20, would you be able to see the difference in the end result?
What's the end result?
That's actually a very good question! Mainly the end result will be a picture being stored on my computer. I have quite a good monitor (resolution 2560x1440 pixels) . I want to watch my pictures in good quality on my monitor, preferably taken in a higher resolution than my monitor, so I can also zoom in to see nice details.
I do want zoom, I do want a compact solution, but at the same time I want good image quality.
Every camera delivers good image quality. It's hard to pick based on image quality when you don't know what your requirements are.
As I said, nice colors, sharp image, no noise (in daylight). I want the quality to match the quality of a picture taken by a pro with professional equipment.
What is more important ... ultimate-optimate IQ from an image that does NOT exist or very-good IQ from an image that DOES exist, (because of unique features from a specific camera ???
That is a very good point. I do think there will be some compromises in image quality. An $ 750 camera can't have the same quality as a $ 1.500 or $ 2.000 camera I would assume. I would have to dive further into this. But I do definitely get the point about getting a shot or not.
Just an aside, but along the same vein. You never mention whether you will be alone or in company if others when you visit the cites, etc. Sometimes with too much (or too big) of kit you run the risk of being “that camera guy”. After being the downer of the party, those big kits get left at home…. Or you get left.
Or you're a TARGET for getting your bag of gear stolen.
And I mean that in a relatively "easy" situation like in daylight with no moving subjects. I understand the pro and his pro camera will product better results with fast moving objects or in more difficult situations like in the evening when it's darker. My current camera, though being compact and having a long zoom range, does not produce the nicest images in terms of image quality. Yes, it's acceptable, but I want to go the next step, otherwise there would not be a reason for me to buy a new camera. I could just keep using my current one.
Compact like RX 100 VII, bridge, M4/3 or APS-C? What would you do if you were in my shoes and had to spend around $ 1.000 to $ 2.500?
Assuming you want to treat photography as a hobby and not just get good pictures now and then, I'd go with a subset of my current kit: Nikon Z5 with 24-200 and the 40/2 for those cozy restaurant shots ;) Or if it falls in the budget, upgrade to a Z6II (even used) for improved autofocus (though if mostly shooting static scenes, like I do, it's overkill).
Thanks, I'll be checking that out!
Note that I'm going after convenience here and minimizing lens changes. If you need 2+ lenses to cover wide to tele, it means a camera bag and frequent lens changes and gets to be a nuisance. I'm happy to do that out shooting nature with a tripod, but not walking around a city or on vacation. That's a conscious tradeoff between convenience and image quality (though I'm sure a 20x30" print made with the 24-200 would look fine by my standards). The small, fast prime fits in a jacket pocket or backpack or any small bag you're carrying and lens changes are infrequent - swap it when you go from outdoors to indoors or when light levels fall at night. Not every time you need to go from wide to tele!

Micro 4/3 with the 12-100/4 and fast prime (20/1.8 or 17/1.7) is another option, but the m43 bodies I like (with a decent grip and good VF) are pricey and the 12-100 costs more than the Nikon 24-200.

If you can convince yourself that 24-120 range instead of 24-200 is good enough, then a m43 body with the 12-60/2.8-4 would be less expensive and more compact - a tempting option.

A Sony FF body with 28-200 and a fast compact prime is another option. The more desirable bodies tend to be pricey and the affordable bodies tend to be old :(

I love the idea of simplifying down to a bridge camera and a compact digicam, but as even though my brain acknowledges that the image quality is good enough, I still find results from APS-C (and certainly full frame) more satisfying.
This is interesting :-) Can you explain why/how you find the results from APS-C or FF more satisfying? What makes the difference?
I would not, personally, recommend Fuji. The lens lineup has a great reputation, but I find the midrange zooms lacking. An X-S10 would be a great choice and the 18-135 would probably still be a match for a bridge camera, and then a small f/2 prime for low light would be an okay kit. The 16-80 is has great specs and is very compact; it doesn't review well due to subpar corner sharpness, but I've seen nice results online from it (gets back to the whole question of how good is good enough - we can look at all these lens tests that show lens A is so much better than lens B, then look at photos that look great from both of them).

I would not recommend Nikon APS-C because of the lack of in-body image stabilization (otherwise the 18-140 and 24/1.8 would be a nice, light, inexpensive kit). Sony APS-C is good, but the better stuff available for it is expensive and I'm not sure there are any good wide-ranging zooms.

The 1" sensor bridge cameras are great - most people could be happy with the image quality in online displays, HDTVs, prints to 13x19 (and bigger if shot well). You don't have the shallow DOF option in low light (unless you add a second camera). And as handy as I find my RX10 III for travel, I don't find it so enjoyable to shoot with the power zoom (I believe the FZ1000 II has that as well?) smaller viewfinder (harder to use with my eyeglasses) and controls that I don't love.

It's all tradeoffs. I recommend downloading some samples and viewing them however you plan to view your photos - on a TV, printed, whatever. (You can save money by printing 1/4 of an image instead of a whole image) ... 1/4 image at 8x12 instead of full image at 16x24, for example. And see if you can try out whatever you're thinking about.
Thanks for your great answer!
 
I totally get what you are saying. Makes sense. Subject, composition, lighting all impact your final outcome. But ... that is not exactly what I meant. I understand that eventually it's me who has to make a nice picture. But to be able to do that, I need the best gear that fits my needs, and my wallet.
The gear can determine how good your photos look if you're pushing limits - printing huge, for example. But for web/HDTV displays and even modestly big prints (13x19 desktop prints and even 20x30" prints hung on a wall) it really doesn't matter. So the gear is more about what you can shoot and how well you can shoot it.
Clear.
In other words, the potential outcome could be better with the better equipment.
Better how? In measurable terms you can only see if you're comparing images side by side at 100%? No matter what you buy, there's always something better. It would be a shame to prioritize image quality that will never make a difference in real life over usability that affects whether you want to take the camera out in the first place. Or the ability to shoot shallow depth of field or action or whatever else you might want to shoot.
Good point. Food for thought!
For example a bridge camera could be an option, but will it produce images as good as for example an APS-C camera,
Does it matter?
It does matter in the sense of I want to see good quality images, nice colors, sharp, no noise, no dark parts (like vignetting). I am afraid a bridge camera will not have the same quality as a separate lens because compromises would have to be made for such a long zoom range in a (relatively) compact body.
But there have been more complaints concerning "tele-softness" from long-zooms on APS/FF cameras than the (praised sharpness) of the Leica & Zeiss zooms on the FZ1000 & RX10-IV cameras, (400 & 600mm-EFL @ f/2.4-4).
If I would shoot the exact same picture with a RX100 VII and a Fuji X-S20, would you be able to see the difference in the end result?
What's the end result?
That's actually a very good question! Mainly the end result will be a picture being stored on my computer. I have quite a good monitor (resolution 2560x1440 pixels) . I want to watch my pictures in good quality on my monitor, preferably taken in a higher resolution than my monitor, so I can also zoom in to see nice details.
I do want zoom, I do want a compact solution, but at the same time I want good image quality.
Every camera delivers good image quality. It's hard to pick based on image quality when you don't know what your requirements are.
As I said, nice colors, sharp image, no noise (in daylight). I want the quality to match the quality of a picture taken by a pro with professional equipment.
What is more important ... ultimate-optimate IQ from an image that does NOT exist or very-good IQ from an image that DOES exist, (because of unique features from a specific camera ???
That is a very good point. I do think there will be some compromises in image quality. An $ 750 camera can't have the same quality as a $ 1.500 or $ 2.000 camera I would assume. I would have to dive further into this. But I do definitely get the point about getting a shot or not.
Yes .. ALL cameras are compromises between size/weight/IQ/versatility.

But what did you think of the previously posted images ??? (note some of those were at night and in UNUSUAL shooting positions)

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67361725

Note that the FZ1000-II also has PANORAMIC ... and has a FLASH that can be used up to 20' in SUN-light, (compared to only 3-4' with all cameras with interchangeable lenses).



0f172b6672af424e8fee21cec5121c2c.jpg



6254324bed044dd0a4964c36e9c114eb.jpg



1aaaf385d6d04bf28d354da67b7ca4dc.jpg









WITHOUT flash
WITHOUT flash



with FLASH
with FLASH

And I mean that in a relatively "easy" situation like in daylight with no moving subjects. I understand the pro and his pro camera will product better results with fast moving objects or in more difficult situations like in the evening when it's darker. My current camera, though being compact and having a long zoom range, does not produce the nicest images in terms of image quality. Yes, it's acceptable, but I want to go the next step, otherwise there would not be a reason for me to buy a new camera. I could just keep using my current one.
Compact like RX 100 VII, bridge, M4/3 or APS-C? What would you do if you were in my shoes and had to spend around $ 1.000 to $ 2.500?
Assuming you want to treat photography as a hobby and not just get good pictures now and then, I'd go with a subset of my current kit: Nikon Z5 with 24-200 and the 40/2 for those cozy restaurant shots ;) Or if it falls in the budget, upgrade to a Z6II (even used) for improved autofocus (though if mostly shooting static scenes, like I do, it's overkill).
Thanks, I'll be checking that out!
Note that I'm going after convenience here and minimizing lens changes. If you need 2+ lenses to cover wide to tele, it means a camera bag and frequent lens changes and gets to be a nuisance. I'm happy to do that out shooting nature with a tripod, but not walking around a city or on vacation. That's a conscious tradeoff between convenience and image quality (though I'm sure a 20x30" print made with the 24-200 would look fine by my standards). The small, fast prime fits in a jacket pocket or backpack or any small bag you're carrying and lens changes are infrequent - swap it when you go from outdoors to indoors or when light levels fall at night. Not every time you need to go from wide to tele!

Micro 4/3 with the 12-100/4 and fast prime (20/1.8 or 17/1.7) is another option, but the m43 bodies I like (with a decent grip and good VF) are pricey and the 12-100 costs more than the Nikon 24-200.

If you can convince yourself that 24-120 range instead of 24-200 is good enough, then a m43 body with the 12-60/2.8-4 would be less expensive and more compact - a tempting option.

A Sony FF body with 28-200 and a fast compact prime is another option. The more desirable bodies tend to be pricey and the affordable bodies tend to be old :(

I love the idea of simplifying down to a bridge camera and a compact digicam, but as even though my brain acknowledges that the image quality is good enough, I still find results from APS-C (and certainly full frame) more satisfying.
This is interesting :-) Can you explain why/how you find the results from APS-C or FF more satisfying? What makes the difference?
I would not, personally, recommend Fuji. The lens lineup has a great reputation, but I find the midrange zooms lacking. An X-S10 would be a great choice and the 18-135 would probably still be a match for a bridge camera, and then a small f/2 prime for low light would be an okay kit. The 16-80 is has great specs and is very compact; it doesn't review well due to subpar corner sharpness, but I've seen nice results online from it (gets back to the whole question of how good is good enough - we can look at all these lens tests that show lens A is so much better than lens B, then look at photos that look great from both of them).

I would not recommend Nikon APS-C because of the lack of in-body image stabilization (otherwise the 18-140 and 24/1.8 would be a nice, light, inexpensive kit). Sony APS-C is good, but the better stuff available for it is expensive and I'm not sure there are any good wide-ranging zooms.

The 1" sensor bridge cameras are great - most people could be happy with the image quality in online displays, HDTVs, prints to 13x19 (and bigger if shot well). You don't have the shallow DOF option in low light (unless you add a second camera). And as handy as I find my RX10 III for travel, I don't find it so enjoyable to shoot with the power zoom (I believe the FZ1000 II has that as well?) smaller viewfinder (harder to use with my eyeglasses) and controls that I don't love.

It's all tradeoffs. I recommend downloading some samples and viewing them however you plan to view your photos - on a TV, printed, whatever. (You can save money by printing 1/4 of an image instead of a whole image) ... 1/4 image at 8x12 instead of full image at 16x24, for example. And see if you can try out whatever you're thinking about.
Thanks for your great answer!
 

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