Versatility vs. IQ vs. Size.

Big THANKS for all of you who responded and will respond! Very helpful. I am going to study all of your replies to get a better understanding and to be able to make the best choice possible. I really appreciate all of your input!!!

I saw some remarks about an F 2.8 lens not being a good combination with an APS-C camera because it is big size. Of course I could go for a F 4.0 or F 5.6 lens ... but what would that do to image quality? I am not a pro, but I was under the assumption that a F 2.8 lens catches more light in darker situations and that it produces a nicer (blurred) background than a F 4.0 lens. Is this true? Because that is my main reason to look for a F 2.8 lens.
 
The aps-c f2.8 lenses that I'm familiar with are quite good. The Sony 16-55/2.8 took a while to get here, but is a fine lens. But size and price, one is creeping into ff f4 territory. But it's a better lens than the Sony 24-70/4. The Tamron 17-70/2.8 could be compared to the 24-105/4ff. Otoh, the Sigma 18-50/2.8 with its somewhat narrowed field of view with the A6600, A6700 or some of the other aps-c bodies is a high quality small kit.

It does take some studying but looking to ff f4 zooms or f2.8 aps-c with specific interests in mind is worth it. There are times I'll take my A6700 and 18-135 instead of the A7Riv and 28-200 for size, weight and video
 
That's where all the brand are putting their R&D dollars.
OM (micro 4/3) and Fujifim (APS-C) disagree strongly.

If compactness is a priority (it's not for everyone), those two brands are better choices than any full frame.
 
I dumped my Canon apsc gear after years of use and new models. Too heavy and bulky for a now senior. The workable solution olympus m4/3. Get a smaller body like a m10 mk4 or m5 and put a 14-140 or 150 on it covers 28-300 on full frame. For low light pic a 1.8 prime in FL that fits your needs. Of course, there is a much larger selection of lens and cameras. I used a olympus m10 mk3 and a lumix 12-60 and 45-150 for trips and rarely missed a pic even in churches. Excellent IBS did the work. Unless you print larger than 11x14 or even 13x19 IQ is fine. No concern if viewing is just a tablet, laptop. Pixel peeping isn't really viewing for normal situations. 2.8 lenses unless a prime will always be larger, heavier, expensive and more pro models. As mentioned, I don't know of any system that is pocket size, wide zoom range, Excellent IQ, top notch AF and IBIS. Many people are satisfied with a top model phone as well.

Greg
 
Big THANKS for all of you who responded and will respond! Very helpful. I am going to study all of your replies to get a better understanding and to be able to make the best choice possible. I really appreciate all of your input!!!

I saw some remarks about an F 2.8 lens not being a good combination with an APS-C camera because it is big size. Of course I could go for a F 4.0 or F 5.6 lens ... but what would that do to image quality? I am not a pro, but I was under the assumption that a F 2.8 lens catches more light in darker situations and that it produces a nicer (blurred) background than a F 4.0 lens. Is this true? Because that is my main reason to look for a F 2.8 lens.
With todays low noise sensors and in-camera processes, I wouldn’t be concerned about needing F2.8 unless you are looking for suject/background separation as a routine concern. I sold off all my bulky (even for m43) f2.8 lenses in favor of the much smaller and lighter f/4’s…. don’t miss them a bit. If low light, I just punch up the ISO a stop or two. If it’s really dark I simply do a Hand Held Hi Rez at ISO 6400 or 12,800 and let the in-camera stacking take care of the noise. Works great.

There are a lot of new f/4 lenses coming on the market from every manufacturer and at reasonable prices…. maybe they know something.
 
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A lot of people love their Sony RX10 IV. It checks your boxes.
 
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In the OP, you talk quite a bit about how you don't like carrying heavy camera bags. You also say travel photography, landscapes, cityscapes, and street photography interest you.

Typically, photographers want a deep depth of field when shooting those genres. In other words, f/2.8 isn't frequently needed. Apertures in the f/5.6 to f/11 range are more common. An f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lens will also be larger and heavier than an f/4 or variable aperture zoom of the same focal length range.

If you get a lens with image stabilization, you'll get a steady, sharp image at 18mm, 1/10-second, f/4 or f/5.6 when photographing the dark interior of an old building. In that scenario, an f/5.6 aperture for the needed depth of field doesn't need to translate to a noisy image. Slow the shutter speed and allow the image stabilization to do its thing.

Also, if you use a system for 6 months and identify a need for a specific prime or zoom lens, you can always add that to the kit. A Fujifilm camera paired with their 18-55mm kit zoom will get you started and may be all you'll need for years. But you'll have the option of adding one of their excellent prime or zoom lenses if that becomes a need.
 
...Well enough talk ... how are your experiences? Is there an option I forgot? What is most important to you? Size, versatility, IQ? Maybe your experiences will help me getting a better understanding of what would be the best choice for me.

Thanks for your replies!
There are tradeoffs, different for different people. One of my favorite targets are birds and animals (often at considerable distance), but also weight is important because I am 74 and I'd be walking for miles in the woods and mountains.

Long zoom range and small physical size are the top priorities for me, so I have a couple of compacts (smallish sensor) with those characteristics. P1000 is my primary wildlife camera, though still too big for some circumstances.
 
In the OP, you talk quite a bit about how you don't like carrying heavy camera bags. You also say travel photography, landscapes, cityscapes, and street photography interest you.

Typically, photographers want a deep depth of field when shooting those genres. In other words, f/2.8 isn't frequently needed. Apertures in the f/5.6 to f/11 range are more common. An f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lens will also be larger and heavier than an f/4 or variable aperture zoom of the same focal length range.

If you get a lens with image stabilization, you'll get a steady, sharp image at 18mm, 1/10-second, f/4 or f/5.6 when photographing the dark interior of an old building. In that scenario, an f/5.6 aperture for the needed depth of field doesn't need to translate to a noisy image. Slow the shutter speed and allow the image stabilization to do its thing.

Also, if you use a system for 6 months and identify a need for a specific prime or zoom lens, you can always add that to the kit. A Fujifilm camera paired with their 18-55mm kit zoom will get you started and may be all you'll need for years. But you'll have the option of adding one of their excellent prime or zoom lenses if that becomes a need.
Thanks! This is useful information! Earlier you mentioned the Fuji X-T30II or X-S20 as a good option instead of an X-T5. Could you perhaps explain the differences between these models? As I understood correctly from your words the X-T5 is bigger than the other 2? Are there other important differences? For example why should I choose the X-T30II over the X-S20 or vice versa?
 
One big question is the lighting of the shots you typically want to shoot. Outdoors in daylight even some small-sensor cameras - like the Sony RX100 line mentioned - can give results you'll likely be completely happy with. Take that same camera indoors or shoot at night and the results can be hit-or-miss. Another popular model of similar size is the Panasonic LX100 II. It has a slightly bigger body with controls many find easier to operate than those of the petite Sony, but comes with modest zoom range.
Looks like a nice camera, especially with the bigger sensor. I like the form/design and buttons on top. However the model is discontinued. There does not seem to be a successor (yet).
For those situations a bigger sensor (and correspondingly bigger lenses) will be a big help - but at the cost of size. Right now interchangeable lens cameras start (at the small end) with Micro-Four-Thirds (MFT) models from Panasonic and OM Systems/Olympus. Lenses are interchangeable between these brands, with some mild advantages sometimes fie staying with a single brand. Panasonic tends to be strong on video features, and many still photographers love how the Olympus/OM models handle. Both companies make a range of models and you'd likely find even the cheaper ones satisfactory. MFT lenses are not just more compact, but also typically cheaper than for larger-sensor models.

A step in size up from those are the Fujis you know of, plus models made by several other companies, which may not be especially compact, aside from some Sony models that offer a lot, but have ergonomics many dislike.

As you move up in sensor size you'll get more ability to shoot in low light, as well as it being easier to blur backgrounds with appropriate lenses. You also add price and weight.

If I were you I'd be looking at something like the Sony RX100 VII as a base option, because it's tiny, has a good zoom range, and is surprisingly capable - given enough light. If that is too small or you want more flexibility in lenses, MFT gear can be quite affordable, and with the right lens, fairly compact. You can always have other lenses you carry only when you think you'll use them. The Fujis are certainly fine cameras with a solid lens selection, but that's adding weight and size again.
 
I don't know much about Fuji, but I do know the biggest difference:

Any model with "X-T" has retro styling and dials and any model with "X-S" has modern control wheels and a deeper grip.

There are fans of both setups. I personally prefer modern controls. Determining which setup is right for you ergonomically will help narrow your choices within Fuji's camera lineup.
 
That's where all the brand are putting their R&D dollars.
OM (micro 4/3) and Fujifim (APS-C) disagree strongly.

If compactness is a priority (it's not for everyone), those two brands are better choices than any full frame.
Any particular model of Fuji ? On the Camerasize site, there are dozens.

Don
 
I know I won't be able to shoot telephoto and long telephoto without a specific circumstance, so I simply don't care about those focal lengths and my life is alot easier.

I tried to shoot wildlife but it's not for me.

My A7IV has 3 lenses that do evertyhing I need: 17-28 f2.8, 28-200 f2.8-5.6 and 45 f1.8. Total spent for this set of lenses, with some searching around (17-28 was lightly used), around 1.2k€.

For everything else stills and video I have a ZV-1, similar AF system, stacked sensor, f1.8-2.8 lens, 380€ used. Such a great little compact stills camera for so cheap, it's crazy.

Plenty of other cameras at the company but none really worth carrying around compared to these two.
 
That's where all the brand are putting their R&D dollars.
OM (micro 4/3) and Fujifim (APS-C) disagree strongly.

If compactness is a priority (it's not for everyone), those two brands are better choices than any full frame.
Any particular model of Fuji ? On the Camerasize site, there are dozens.

Don
I'm not very familiar with specific models of Fujifilm cameras, but I do know that the brand is dedicated to APS-C development and doesn't even make full-frame cameras, so it is putting its best stuff into cameras with smaller sensors (as is OM Systems with micro 4/3 sensors).

Compactness of a system isn't just about the size of the body, but also the lenses. An APS-C camera can in general use smaller lenses. This is true even for short primes and normal zooms, but it is especially impactful at the long telephoto range. An APS-C camera only needs a 400 mm lens to have the same field of view as a 600 mm lens on a full-frame camera. Micro 4/3 gets that view with only 300 mm.
 
I take a 'different horses/different courses' approach. I don't think there is any one camera system that will do everything I want it to do under the conditions and circumstances that I take pictures.
I’ve gradually come to that conclusion too. I’ve chased pocketability and convenience to the extent that I’ve used an iPhone almost exclusively for the past 2 years. It’s very capable but doesn’t quite tick all the boxes. So, partly from nostalgia and partly because I like the look of the images produced by that CCD sensor, I am expecting delivery of a mint Nikon D40 and a 35mm f1.8. This may be the onset of vintage DSLR GAS…..
 
I saw some remarks about an F 2.8 lens not being a good combination with an APS-C camera because it is big size. Of course I could go for a F 4.0 or F 5.6 lens ... but what would that do to image quality? I am not a pro, but I was under the assumption that a F 2.8 lens catches more light in darker situations and that it produces a nicer (blurred) background than a F 4.0 lens. Is this true? Because that is my main reason to look for a F 2.8 lens.
In your original post you wrote:
I want to buy a new camera to expand my hobby. I would like to go to cities and take pictures of buildings and street life. And also I would like to photograph nature, like landscapes, trees and lakes.
Faster lenses gather more light, allowing you to shoot at faster shutter speeds. This is mainly useful when shooting people, sports or any action where you want to reduce subject motion blur. It used to also be important for avoiding camera shake (when shooting handheld) but this is less an issue with image stabilization.

Faster lenses allow you to shoot with less depth of field. Good when you want blurred backgrounds.

But your described uses don't really scream "shallow depth of field" and you might end up going from one extreme (HX99) to another (big camera with multiple big lenses) in pursuit of something you don't need and end up with a camera you hate to carry and use. (I'm not predicting this - just suggesting things to watch out for). That Fujifilm X-S1 shot you linked in your OP was shot at f/5.6 on a 2/3" sensor (though at a long focal length).

I use a Nikon Z5 with multiple lenses, but one consideration in choosing my current kit is that I like to go out with one - or at most two - lenses most of the time. My every day lens is the 24-200 which covers a lot of ground (and can get blurred backgrounds in some situations, but otherwise, that's its weakness). I plan on picking up the little 40/2 to carry with that when I travel - small, fast, handy for low light (indoors, etc). I have the 50/1.8 which I use around the house. The 105 for macro or portraits. And I'll end up with a long tele for backyard wildlife (currently using an older camera for that).

That's one approach. I have the RX10 III and it's an extremely capable camera. Image quality is very good, but I just find something slightly lacking compared to the APS-C photos I've been shooting for almost 20 years now. That said, it's good enough that if it were a more enjoyable camera to shoot, I'd be sorely tempted to just throw in the towel and use it for most everything (maybe with a small camera & fast normal prime for low light). I found it handy when I used it for travel, but too frustrating to use it instead of the cameras I've been using for years.

The RX100 series is excellent as well. The newest models with long zooms are supposed to be excellent. I have the 'I' (with 28-100 equivalent) and always liked it. The 24-70 equivalent lens on some of the models is supposedly excellent, but you probably won't want to be restricted to that range.

I looked at m43 as a compact alternative to Z, but the 12-100/4 is as big as (and more expensive than) the 24-200 I bought. There are other lenses that are smaller, but equivalence means you're giving up something (range and/or speed) so it's a good system if compactness is your goal, but if you're trying to balance compactness with lens speed, then most options are going to be roughly similar in size.

There are no easy answers - good luck with your decision!
 
I don't know much about Fuji, but I do know the biggest difference:

Any model with "X-T" has retro styling and dials and any model with "X-S" has modern control wheels and a deeper grip.
Ooooh, I did not know that. Learned something new here :-D
There are fans of both setups. I personally prefer modern controls.
Why do you prefer the modern controls? I would say the "retro style" buttons are faster in use. For example you can dial a ring to change the ISO. I would say this is faster / more easy than go into your menu, search for ISO setting and then push a button to change. Or am I mistaking?
Determining which setup is right for you ergonomically will help narrow your choices within Fuji's camera lineup.
 
I saw some remarks about an F 2.8 lens not being a good combination with an APS-C camera because it is big size. Of course I could go for a F 4.0 or F 5.6 lens ... but what would that do to image quality? I am not a pro, but I was under the assumption that a F 2.8 lens catches more light in darker situations and that it produces a nicer (blurred) background than a F 4.0 lens. Is this true? Because that is my main reason to look for a F 2.8 lens.
In your original post you wrote:
I want to buy a new camera to expand my hobby. I would like to go to cities and take pictures of buildings and street life. And also I would like to photograph nature, like landscapes, trees and lakes.
Faster lenses gather more light, allowing you to shoot at faster shutter speeds. This is mainly useful when shooting people, sports or any action where you want to reduce subject motion blur. It used to also be important for avoiding camera shake (when shooting handheld) but this is less an issue with image stabilization.

Faster lenses allow you to shoot with less depth of field. Good when you want blurred backgrounds.

But your described uses don't really scream "shallow depth of field" and you might end up going from one extreme (HX99) to another (big camera with multiple big lenses) in pursuit of something you don't need and end up with a camera you hate to carry and use. (I'm not predicting this - just suggesting things to watch out for).
This is exactly why I posted my question. Spot on!
That Fujifilm X-S1 shot you linked in your OP was shot at f/5.6 on a 2/3" sensor (though at a long focal length).

I use a Nikon Z5 with multiple lenses, but one consideration in choosing my current kit is that I like to go out with one - or at most two - lenses most of the time. My every day lens is the 24-200 which covers a lot of ground (and can get blurred backgrounds in some situations, but otherwise, that's its weakness). I plan on picking up the little 40/2 to carry with that when I travel - small, fast, handy for low light (indoors, etc). I have the 50/1.8 which I use around the house. The 105 for macro or portraits. And I'll end up with a long tele for backyard wildlife (currently using an older camera for that).

That's one approach. I have the RX10 III and it's an extremely capable camera. Image quality is very good, but I just find something slightly lacking compared to the APS-C photos I've been shooting for almost 20 years now.
I am afraid a bridge camera like RX10 is too big of a compromise, mainly in image quality. Because the lens is this long, I think it will not deliver the same image quality as a shorter lens. But maybe I'm wrong?
That said, it's good enough that if it were a more enjoyable camera to shoot, I'd be sorely tempted to just throw in the towel and use it for most everything (maybe with a small camera & fast normal prime for low light). I found it handy when I used it for travel, but too frustrating to use it instead of the cameras I've been using for years.

The RX100 series is excellent as well. The newest models with long zooms are supposed to be excellent. I have the 'I' (with 28-100 equivalent) and always liked it. The 24-70 equivalent lens on some of the models is supposedly excellent, but you probably won't want to be restricted to that range.
I will definitely check the RX100 as a serious option.
I looked at m43 as a compact alternative to Z, but the 12-100/4 is as big as (and more expensive than) the 24-200 I bought. There are other lenses that are smaller, but equivalence means you're giving up something (range and/or speed) so it's a good system if compactness is your goal, but if you're trying to balance compactness with lens speed, then most options are going to be roughly similar in size.

There are no easy answers - good luck with your decision!
Thanks very much for providing such a long and useful answer. I truly appreciate it!
 
Why do you prefer the modern controls? I would say the "retro style" buttons are faster in use. For example you can dial a ring to change the ISO.
I'm not sure about the Fujis ... I tried an X-T30 for a few weeks before returning it in the 30-day window for an X-S10 ... and I can't remember how the ISO control worked on the X-S10. On most cameras, though, you just press a button and rotate one of the control dials. Something you can do easily without looking away from the VF.

Though I find no need to change ISO except in rare situations - all I need to do is toggle between base ISO setting and Auto and that's also trivial on my Nikon bodies (when you press the ISO button, one dial changes the ISO setting, the other toggles the Auto setting).
I would say this is faster / more easy than go into your menu, search for ISO setting and then push a button to change. Or am I mistaking?
To me, the benefit of the retro controls is the ability to see the settings when you pick up the camera or to change settings while the camera is on a tripod by looking at the dials instead of having to hunch over to look in the VF (not so much an issue with tilting LCDs). It's hard to imagine anything being faster/easier with retro controls (most people who advocate for them say one of the advantages is that it "slows you down"!) Though there's a guy on the Fuji forum (Erik Baumgartner) who can provide you with great advice on how to set up a Fuji camera for speed, if you end up with one.

If possible, try Fuji cameras before you buy. I started with manual focus SLRs before digital and always had a sense of nostalgia for them. I was intrigued by Fuji's retro cameras for years after trying out an X-T1 at a photo show. So I finally scratched that itch a couple years ago with the X-T30 and got it out of my system. I suspect an X-T3/4/5 would have been nicer to use (I found the retro controls fiddly on the little X-T30). But I have no desire to ever go back to that control layout again.
 
In the OP, you talk quite a bit about how you don't like carrying heavy camera bags. You also say travel photography, landscapes, cityscapes, and street photography interest you.

Typically, photographers want a deep depth of field when shooting those genres. In other words, f/2.8 isn't frequently needed. Apertures in the f/5.6 to f/11 range are more common. An f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lens will also be larger and heavier than an f/4 or variable aperture zoom of the same focal length range.

If you get a lens with image stabilization, you'll get a steady, sharp image at 18mm, 1/10-second, f/4 or f/5.6 when photographing the dark interior of an old building. In that scenario, an f/5.6 aperture for the needed depth of field doesn't need to translate to a noisy image. Slow the shutter speed and allow the image stabilization to do its thing.

Also, if you use a system for 6 months and identify a need for a specific prime or zoom lens, you can always add that to the kit. A Fujifilm camera paired with their 18-55mm kit zoom will get you started and may be all you'll need for years. But you'll have the option of adding one of their excellent prime or zoom lenses if that becomes a need.
Thanks! This is useful information! Earlier you mentioned the Fuji X-T30II or X-S20 as a good option instead of an X-T5. Could you perhaps explain the differences between these models? As I understood correctly from your words the X-T5 is bigger than the other 2? Are there other important differences? For example why should I choose the X-T30II over the X-S20 or vice versa?
All three cameras are built around APS-C sensors so all three collect and capture the same exposure and total light when photographing the same scene in the same light.

The X-T30 is a bit under a pound in weight. The X-S20 is a skosh over a pound in weight. The X-T5 is the heaviest of the three.

The X-T5 is Fuji's latest high resolution professional body. It's built more rugged and has weather sealing. It also has a second card slot.

The X-S20 is the same generation as the X-T5. It's not a high resolution camera but has more video-centric features

The X-T30II is a couple of generations older, doesn't have a high res sensor or the custom video features. However, it can be used with any Fuji X-mount lens, is the most compact and lightest of the three, and is a great, lower cost option for a landscape/travel photographer who's getting their first ILC.

There are plenty of reviews and comparisons of all three on the interwebs. I'd suggest you seek some out with an eye towards performance and features that are important to you. See for yourself if any of those three seems a great fit for what you shoot and how you shoot.

Good luck.
 

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