I want Nikon to give me a camera with global shutter (now).

I want Nikon to give me a camera with global shutter (now).


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Global? Who came up with that stupid term. They could have come up with literally a million fancy alternatives. Direct Drive, Instant, Parallel Read Out etc, etc.

Global? The first thing I asked myself was - does my Z9 not work in some countries?
 
Global? Who came up with that stupid term. They could have come up with literally a million fancy alternatives. Direct Drive, Instant, Parallel Read Out etc, etc.
Global? The first thing I asked myself was - does my Z9 not work in some countries?
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Yes, you are right, but it is also not wrong to call it "global" either.

Personally I've always thought global can also mean the whole of something, like the whole world.
 
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The earliest Nikon that could possibly have a global shutter would be the Z9 II. I don't think it is economically feasible right now to put a global shutter in a camera like the Z6 III which would be around the 2-2.5k US$ price point.

Honestly, for most of us, having a camera with a global shutter isn't magically going to take our photos to the next level. It is great though for working pros who need it for the specific use cases where high speed action is required to be captured without rolling shutter artefacts or where they really need high speed sync.
It's called a dslr... ;-)
Or the z8/z9, which have a readout speed just a hair behind mechanical shutters.
I think you know fine well I'm alluding to the point the tech that stops this problem has been around about 3 decades now. No bending of balls or bats in any DSLR shots.
 
Having a global shutter in the replacement for the Z9 is pretty much inevitable, IMO. The trick is to dissipate heat away without reducing DR & making the photosite's area as big as possible for any sensor size/resolution that will involve more layers in a stacked sensor.

The other thing that maybe viable is pixel binning that camera manufacturers seem slow to use. This would hopefully reduce the need for lower resolution cameras for better high ISO noise performance as you can effectively chose the resolution

I'd say that a global shutter is a major enhancement & should enable virtually no banding & flash sync at most "shutter" speeds. I'm sure many will welcome higher frame rates the Sony will bring when it's actually available that is!
 
However, I failed to note that a GS in a 45MP camera is probably some way off & would require a big leap in processing power to boot.
 
Is it a "must" for the Z9/8 replacement? If so, it better come with IQ improvements.

I would not want to put anything in my hands with a native ISO floor of 250-ish etc. ISO 64 (or lower) native or no go.

I understand the implications if Nikon cant "keep up," but for me, IQ is everything, DR is everything...

Now I stand here as a hypocrite because I had a D850 and sold it to KEH so I could move into the Z9, which makes me a liar right? Or does it. The minor differences in shadow/highlight recovery at ISO 64 between the Nikon Z9/8 vs the D850/Z7ii are a 1/3 of a stop. It's so minor, I made the jump to light speed (20fps RAW) because I would have a need for that high-fps feature. I am a landscape / portrait hobbyist who shoots at ISO 64.

So, whilst I understand Nikon being pulled into the global shutter world because Sony did, I would hope it wont come with IQ/DR compromise. I would expect them to solve those problems before they release their first product.

and so it goes.
 
I got ahead of myself so added a caveat. A GS on a 45+ sensor is some years off so Nikon won't be adding one to the Z9 replacement. This Sony development also gives Nikon some time to perfect the technology but unlike Canon & Sony, they don't have their own sensor manufacturing. Quite how much a difference this makes, I don't know.
 
Let's not forget that Sony moving to a Global Shutter effectively makes the A9III a first generation camera with all the compromises that go with that.
 
Is Sony giving up on the ~$4,000 to $4,500 FF camera market? What's to face the Z8?
These cameras were likely in development for extended periods of course but I spose you could argue the R5 has been out for awhile and the Z8 was somewhat predictable.

Maybe Sony think its better to not go after a market thats already quite crowded with Canon and Nikon already involved? instead target a smaller ultra fast action camera market?

I would say though that whilst the announcement has made waves I'm wondering how big that market will actually be.
 
If they want a stacked sensor with global shutter they will have likely designed it, subject to production costs for a FX Flagship Z camera. However the Fab costs (by Sony or TowerJazz etc) will be high, particularly if its use is restricted to only 1 flagship.
So don't restrict it. D3/D700, Z9/Z8. I'd throw in D4/Df too except the Df didn't sell anywhere near as well as the D700 did in comparison to the D3. Too early to say about the Z8.
Well Nikon Imaging just announced decent results for 2nd Q2024, thanks in part to high Z8 sales.

"Revenues grew on strong sales in the Imaging Products Business,...Sales volumes of mirrorless cameras, mainly the Z 8, and interchangeable lens of mirrorless cameras increased. ASP rose with the shift toward mid/high-end cameras. And the weaker yen helped."

And they forecast increased sales of 800 000 cameras and 1250 000 lenses for FY 24 /3. Nikon will also increase its R&D

Unless and until Nikon works out all the cons that surface from using a global shutter I don't think you will see it in a Z9 II. More likely that Nikon would make some new body for it so they have two "flagship" choices. Like the A1/A9 and rumored R3/R1.
Perhaps a camera design team, in Nikon R&D, could be well advanced on a sister flagship for the Paris Olympics. Perhaps it will be a Z9s launched 2 1/2 years after the Z9.

Time will tell, obviously....

--
 
So, whilst I understand Nikon being pulled into the global shutter world because Sony did, I would hope it wont come with IQ/DR compromise. I would expect them to solve those problems before they release their first product.
I’m wondering if Sony is going to “fix” some of the noise issues with in camera AI denoise software baked into the camera. Sony seems to fix a lot of issues with software.
 
The cat is out of the box. We now have the first modern photo / hybrid camera with a global shutter, The Sony a9 III.
Though the specs are impressive, this sensor (like everything humans make) is a compromise and might not suit every photographer.

The a9 serie of cameras, have always been Sony's sport / action-oriented camera, and this new version seems to continue that tradition. Super-fast AF, fast framerate, lowish MP count, and not the widest in its ISO range.
We don't know about its lowlight performance, or its picture quality compared to a standart backside illuminated sensor.

It is obviously, this new sensor is not targeting high megapixel sensors in cameras like the Z 7 and Z 7II, but could it replace the sensor in a future Z 6III?
Will it be enough for Nikon to just make a Z 6III with the old Z 6II sensor and the new Expeed 7 processor, or is it now mandatory to get a global sensor together with the Expeed 7 processor?

There is no question about there one day will be a Nikon with a global sensor because the tech is now available, but the question is, is it a must have? And if so, how quick?
Should Nikon make a camera with a global shutter its first priority or should they just make a new model line for people that might need it? - Or maybe even wait for the Z 6IV to give it a global shutter.

What is the Nikon community wishes?
Tell me, what can you not do because of the lack of a global shutter? I asked this question myself, and the answer is: 'nothing.' Of course, this is a big technical breakthrough, but in practical terms, it isn't going to change much for 99% of the people
 
There is no question about there one day will be a Nikon with a global sensor because the tech is now available, but the question is, is it a must have?
My answer? No. The primary benefits come at extreme uses. And as you pointed out in other parts of your post, there are compromises. One such compromise is the implied smaller electron well capacity due to the base ISO of 250.
And if so, how quick?
Nikon has shown their own global shutter work well over a year ago, and has several patents in the area. The "how quick" question is answered by my comment above: for a high-end, specialized product, perhaps more quickly now that Sony has made their move. But for the Z6 type of camera you were commenting on, I don't see the need. Just increasing bandwidth enough to forego a mechanical shutter is enough, I'd judge (which is what they did with the Z8/Z9).
Should Nikon make a camera with a global shutter its first priority or should they just make a new model line for people that might need it?
An improved Z6 III is the model Nikon most needs in their lineup at this point. The Z9 can still be improved via firmware (e.g. Nikon showed CAI on a Z9 quite some time ago at an Adobe conference, but hasn't released it yet).

The definition of what a Z6 III needs to be has now changed with the release of the Zf. More speed (perhaps a drop of the shutter) and perhaps more pixels seem to be the main things that would bring it back into being fully competitive.
What is the Nikon community wishes?
From my polling: Z6 III, 60mp+ camera, and Z70/Z90 speed DX camera.

From my own personal opinion, Z6 III is urgent, Z50 II and Z90 are getting urgent, and some day a higher resolution camera. Add perhaps a mild update to the Z9 (e.g. the Z9s type of update).
 
Is Sony giving up on the ~$4,000 to $4,500 FF camera market? What's to face the Z8?
These cameras were likely in development for extended periods of course but I spose you could argue the R5 has been out for awhile and the Z8 was somewhat predictable.

Maybe Sony think its better to not go after a market thats already quite crowded with Canon and Nikon already involved? instead target a smaller ultra fast action camera market?

I would say though that whilst the announcement has made waves I'm wondering how big that market will actually be.
Its a fair question. This almost seems like a halo product rather than a practical one.

I have visions of these sports photographers spraying and praying 120fps getting that perfect shot where the ball leaves the bat and then culling through 10,000 images in the press room. They may be wishing for 15fps and iso 100 before too long.
 
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I have visions of these sports photographers spraying and praying 120fps getting that perfect shot where the ball leaves the bat and then culling through 10,000 images in the press room. They may be wishing for 15fps and iso 100 before too long.
120 fps seems to be limited to about 1.8 seconds or around 180 shots.

60 and 30 fps is reported available - possibly with proportionate buffer limits.

As the body does not go on sale for about 3 months, the ISO range is reduced by 2.5 stops and nothing is clarified as to actual DR it will be sometime before there is significant user feedback.
 
There is no question about there one day will be a Nikon with a global sensor because the tech is now available, but the question is, is it a must have?
My answer? No. The primary benefits come at extreme uses. And as you pointed out in other parts of your post, there are compromises. One such compromise is the implied smaller electron well capacity due to the base ISO of 250.
And if so, how quick?
Nikon has shown their own global shutter work well over a year ago, and has several patents in the area. The "how quick" question is answered by my comment above: for a high-end, specialized product, perhaps more quickly now that Sony has made their move. But for the Z6 type of camera you were commenting on, I don't see the need. Just increasing bandwidth enough to forego a mechanical shutter is enough, I'd judge (which is what they did with the Z8/Z9).
Should Nikon make a camera with a global shutter its first priority or should they just make a new model line for people that might need it?
An improved Z6 III is the model Nikon most needs in their lineup at this point. The Z9 can still be improved via firmware (e.g. Nikon showed CAI on a Z9 quite some time ago at an Adobe conference, but hasn't released it yet).

The definition of what a Z6 III needs to be has now changed with the release of the Zf. More speed (perhaps a drop of the shutter) and perhaps more pixels seem to be the main things that would bring it back into being fully competitive.
When I was pondering why is Z6 III so late it occurred to me that there could be two reasons:
  1. Nikon will use a new sensor or some other part and they need more time to finish its development
  2. They will reuse the sensor from Z8/9 and they can't release it so soon after Z8
There were some rumors about 45 MP Z6 III in the past but that could be just another interpretation of a camera that eventually become Z8.
What is the Nikon community wishes?
From my polling: Z6 III, 60mp+ camera, and Z70/Z90 speed DX camera.

From my own personal opinion, Z6 III is urgent, Z50 II and Z90 are getting urgent, and some day a higher resolution camera. Add perhaps a mild update to the Z9 (e.g. the Z9s type of update).
 
I have visions of these sports photographers spraying and praying 120fps getting that perfect shot where the ball leaves the bat and then culling through 10,000 images in the press room. They may be wishing for 15fps and iso 100 before too long.
120 fps seems to be limited to about 1.8 seconds or around 180 shots.
It's not just the buffer limit that comes into play, but also how fast the buffer fully clears. For a camera that's used at high frame rates in continuous sports coverage, that buffer clearance matters big time.

Nikon has their own version of this issue: the Zf. The Zf has an 186 frame raw buffer at the largest possible raw file size, which is great: I can take 18 seconds worth of continuous imagery at the max setting I'd actually use on the camera. But...if the buffer then takes 30-60 seconds to clear, well, that starts taking away from how big/small that buffer is.

This is why the current high-sustained write rate CFe Type B cards work so well in cameras, such as the Z9: the allow a large buffer to start with, but they clear buffer incredibly fast.
As the body does not go on sale for about 3 months,
"Spring 2024" starts in February? ;~)
the ISO range is reduced by 2.5 stops and nothing is clarified as to actual DR it will be sometime before there is significant user feedback.
It's not 2.5 stops, it's 1.something stops. However, that does indicate that the electron well capacity of the A9 Mark III is smaller than that of the A9 Mark II, which makes the camera slightly less useful for some situations.
 
There were some rumors about 45 MP Z6 III in the past but that could be just another interpretation of a camera that eventually become Z8.
It would make far more sense for the Z6 III to get in the 28-36mp range. Remember, the 36mp D800 was a seminal camera, partly because of the resolution bump up (people felt it was a bit of future-proofing).

Such a camera in the US$2500-3000 price point would basically eradicate the need for a direct Z7 II replacement. Nikon would then be free to put a truly high resolution camera—e.g. 80mp— wherever they felt was the best place in the lineup (e.g. Z7 III, Z8x, or something else).
 
There were some rumors about 45 MP Z6 III in the past but that could be just another interpretation of a camera that eventually become Z8.
It would make far more sense for the Z6 III to get in the 28-36mp range. Remember, the 36mp D800 was a seminal camera, partly because of the resolution bump up (people felt it was a bit of future-proofing).

Such a camera in the US$2500-3000 price point would basically eradicate the need for a direct Z7 II replacement. Nikon would then be free to put a truly high resolution camera—e.g. 80mp— wherever they felt was the best place in the lineup (e.g. Z7 III, Z8x, or something else).
 
There is no question about there one day will be a Nikon with a global sensor because the tech is now available, but the question is, is it a must have?
My answer? No. The primary benefits come at extreme uses. And as you pointed out in other parts of your post, there are compromises. One such compromise is the implied smaller electron well capacity due to the base ISO of 250.
And if so, how quick?
Nikon has shown their own global shutter work well over a year ago, and has several patents in the area. The "how quick" question is answered by my comment above: for a high-end, specialized product, perhaps more quickly now that Sony has made their move. But for the Z6 type of camera you were commenting on, I don't see the need. Just increasing bandwidth enough to forego a mechanical shutter is enough, I'd judge (which is what they did with the Z8/Z9).
Should Nikon make a camera with a global shutter its first priority or should they just make a new model line for people that might need it?
An improved Z6 III is the model Nikon most needs in their lineup at this point. The Z9 can still be improved via firmware (e.g. Nikon showed CAI on a Z9 quite some time ago at an Adobe conference, but hasn't released it yet).

The definition of what a Z6 III needs to be has now changed with the release of the Zf. More speed (perhaps a drop of the shutter) and perhaps more pixels seem to be the main things that would bring it back into being fully competitive.
What is the Nikon community wishes?
From my polling: Z6 III, 60mp+ camera, and Z70/Z90 speed DX camera.

From my own personal opinion, Z6 III is urgent, Z50 II and Z90 are getting urgent, and some day a higher resolution camera. Add perhaps a mild update to the Z9 (e.g. the Z9s type of update).
As Thom Hogan clearly says, Nikon has several patents for sensors with global shutter and I have also seen many on specialized pages, I think there will also be surprises from Nikon in the near future.
 

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