Red filter vs Post etc

viper699 · Oct 31, 2023

First- I’ve never shot underwater let alone the ocean.

In my research I’ve learned one “needs” a red filter for underwater shooting. I saw a guy with a GoPro shot video comparing no filter, red filter, adding red in during post-processing. In some cases different versions looked better.

If you shoot with a red filter, does removal of the red filter effect in post work well?

I’ll have maybe 2 days to shoot while snorkeling in a reef system, and I don’t want to screw up any potential content - personal use only not professional use.

I’ll either shoot with a GoPro or Olympus TG-6, maybe both to determine which one to buy later.

Thanks!

kelpdiver · Oct 31, 2023

how deep are you going as a snorkel? The loss of red occurs with depth - if you're staying in the first 15 feet, you don't need it.

With the current go pros, I don't know that any need it any more. You will lose some light to any filter and the impact it has when is not needed is more annoying, I feel.

If you use a go pro, look at their software and use the video mode that allows for editing that in post.

The Backscatter flip lens is one of the easy solutions to selectively use the filters, and they do have a shallow water filter that is the lightest amount of red addition. But for your first run, I think it's probably more likely to be a distraction than an improvement.

viper699 · Oct 31, 2023

kelpdiver said:
how deep are you going as a snorkel? The loss of red occurs with depth - if you're staying in the first 15 feet, you don't need it.

With the current go pros, I don't know that any need it any more. You will lose some light to any filter and the impact it has when is not needed is more annoying, I feel.

If you use a go pro, look at their software and use the video mode that allows for editing that in post.

The Backscatter flip lens is one of the easy solutions to selectively use the filters, and they do have a shallow water filter that is the lightest amount of red addition. But for your first run, I think it's probably more likely to be a distraction than an improvement.

True on depth! It really depends on what I see. One time I was snorkeling- no cam- and I saw an octopus, and a ray. I wished I had gone down to the octo to observe closer, that was bright water about 15-20’ no more, different part of the world too. Maybe such a situation will present itself, if so, a red filter could be useful.

I was thinking the same re first run, don’t won’t to make it too complex on the first go around sorta. I’ve seen the Backscatter, seems like a good solution, esp for split level work.

I didn’t know the newer GoPros had a different video mode for editing- will look into that.

Was also thinking of the Oly TG-6, has very good macro capabilities with a decent zoom. Though for macro I’d surely need a light based on my research.

PHXAZCRAIG · Nov 1, 2023

viper699 said:
Was also thinking of the Oly TG-6, has very good macro capabilities with a decent zoom. Though for macro I’d surely need a light based on my research.

Hard enough to get good shots snorkeling. Adding a strobe makes it harder. How well do you snorkel, how deep for how long?

I was never neutrally buoyant when I snorkeled. Had to fin down like crazy to get down for an instant to get a shot, then popped up like a cork. I needed weights. Then I needed to lose 40 years.

viper699 · Nov 1, 2023

PHXAZCRAIG said:
viper699 said:

Was also thinking of the Oly TG-6, has very good macro capabilities with a decent zoom. Though for macro I’d surely need a light based on my research.

Click to expand...

Hard enough to get good shots snorkeling. Adding a strobe makes it harder. How well do you snorkel, how deep for how long?

I was never neutrally buoyant when I snorkeled. Had to fin down like crazy to get down for an instant to get a shot, then popped up like a cork. I needed weights. Then I needed to lose 40 years.

kelpdiver · Nov 1, 2023

viper699 said:
PHXAZCRAIG said:

viper699 said:

Was also thinking of the Oly TG-6, has very good macro capabilities with a decent zoom. Though for macro I’d surely need a light based on my research.

Click to expand...

Hard enough to get good shots snorkeling. Adding a strobe makes it harder. How well do you snorkel, how deep for how long?

I was never neutrally buoyant when I snorkeled. Had to fin down like crazy to get down for an instant to get a shot, then popped up like a cork. I needed weights. Then I needed to lose 40 years.

Click to expand...

Good points- I’ll save that strobe for scuba!

if you're good enough as a freediver to be able to stay still under the water, you could attach a ring light like the WeeFine 3000. It screws into a 67 mm thread. It adds weight, but not (much) drag or awkwardness like a strobe arm would. The ring lighting avoids most shadowing. I was able to win a Thinktank roller in a photo shootout using one instead of a true strobe.

An advantage (plus/minus) of the go pro for video is the fixed focus means no problem with AF hunting due to silt in the water. Not quite the same PQ due to this, but no danger of getting useless video.

viper699 · Nov 1, 2023

kelpdiver said:
viper699 said:

PHXAZCRAIG said:

viper699 said:

Was also thinking of the Oly TG-6, has very good macro capabilities with a decent zoom. Though for macro I’d surely need a light based on my research.

Click to expand...

Hard enough to get good shots snorkeling. Adding a strobe makes it harder. How well do you snorkel, how deep for how long?

I was never neutrally buoyant when I snorkeled. Had to fin down like crazy to get down for an instant to get a shot, then popped up like a cork. I needed weights. Then I needed to lose 40 years.

Click to expand...

Good points- I’ll save that strobe for scuba!

Click to expand...

if you're good enough as a freediver to be able to stay still under the water, you could attach a ring light like the WeeFine 3000. It screws into a 67 mm thread. It adds weight, but not (much) drag or awkwardness like a strobe arm would. The ring lighting avoids most shadowing. I was able to win a Thinktank roller in a photo shootout using one instead of a true strobe.

An advantage (plus/minus) of the go pro for video is the fixed focus means no problem with AF hunting due to silt in the water. Not quite the same PQ due to this, but no danger of getting useless video.

Love ThinkTank products! Congrats

Im out of practice for sure, it’s been a while.

Oly TG-6 or a Hero, or rent both….Each has a plus/minus

The zooming of the Oly may be useful for capturing marine life that is out of my reach. Tough choices

Dann-Oh · Nov 2, 2023

viper699 said:
First- I’ve never shot underwater let alone the ocean.

In my research I’ve learned one “needs” a red filter for underwater shooting. I saw a guy with a GoPro shot video comparing no filter, red filter, adding red in during post-processing. In some cases different versions looked better.

If you shoot with a red filter, does removal of the red filter effect in post work well?

I’ll have maybe 2 days to shoot while snorkeling in a reef system, and I don’t want to screw up any potential content - personal use only not professional use.

I’ll either shoot with a GoPro or Olympus TG-6, maybe both to determine which one to buy later.

Thanks!

Freediver and Scuba diver here.

Learn some proper freediving safety practices if you don't know them. I'm not trying to be condescending but statistics show that snorkeling and freediving are more deadly than scuba diving (including cave and deco diving).

If you are using any kind of wetsuit you will need to use a weight belt with weights to keep you neutrally buoyant at your targeted depth, this will help with getting better images and videos. going deeper than this depth you will become negatively buoyant and sink without trying, its a super cool feeling.

Make sure you leash your camera to your weight belt NOT your wrist. I like to put this on my weight belt and then this to attach my camera to my weight belt. With this setup you will be able to drop your camera to help your partner in an emergency and still retrieve it later. In the event you have a black out you will also be able to retrieve your camera after your buddy rescues you.

Remember your teams safety is more important than any image or video clip. Don't get distracted, listen to you bottom timer.

Have fun and share your images/videos.

viper699 · Nov 3, 2023

Dann-Oh said:
viper699 said:

First- I’ve never shot underwater let alone the ocean.

In my research I’ve learned one “needs” a red filter for underwater shooting. I saw a guy with a GoPro shot video comparing no filter, red filter, adding red in during post-processing. In some cases different versions looked better.

If you shoot with a red filter, does removal of the red filter effect in post work well?

I’ll have maybe 2 days to shoot while snorkeling in a reef system, and I don’t want to screw up any potential content - personal use only not professional use.

I’ll either shoot with a GoPro or Olympus TG-6, maybe both to determine which one to buy later.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Freediver and Scuba diver here.

Learn some proper freediving safety practices if you don't know them. I'm not trying to be condescending but statistics show that snorkeling and freediving are more deadly than scuba diving (including cave and deco diving).

If you are using any kind of wetsuit you will need to use a weight belt with weights to keep you neutrally buoyant at your targeted depth, this will help with getting better images and videos. going deeper than this depth you will become negatively buoyant and sink without trying, its a super cool feeling.

Make sure you leash your camera to your weight belt NOT your wrist. I like to put this on my weight belt and then this to attach my camera to my weight belt. With this setup you will be able to drop your camera to help your partner in an emergency and still retrieve it later. In the event you have a black out you will also be able to retrieve your camera after your buddy rescues you.

Remember your teams safety is more important than any image or video clip. Don't get distracted, listen to you bottom timer.

Have fun and share your images/videos.

kelpdiver · Nov 3, 2023

viper699 said:
Didn’t know that about stats! I’m risk adverse!

those stats may be a bit distorted by the huge volume of untrained tourists with a snorkel just downing on the surface or suffering a heart attack, or getting run over by careless boaters and jet skiers.

Nevertheless, shallow water blackout is a pretty serious danger for those who can stay down for any length of time. The casual ones like me are so quickly limited by the CO2 reflex, but those who can stay down for minutes can exhaust that O2 and black out as they ascend (which lowers the partial pressure of the oxygen due to the expanding gas)

viper699 said:
curious why not strap to wrist- is it to keep your hands free? I didn’t expect that. I may not use a weight belt, and only stay at the surface. Keep it simple and enjoy the scenery not get too distracted with photography.

When diving, my camera is clipped to my BC d-ring so I can always drop it and get use of my right hand back. Same applies here.

And if you can, make your camera rig itself just barely floaty so that if it disconnects, it will surface. It's also better for avoiding crashing into the reef that way.

viper699 · Nov 3, 2023

kelpdiver said:
viper699 said:

Didn’t know that about stats! I’m risk adverse!

Click to expand...

those stats may be a bit distorted by the huge volume of untrained tourists with a snorkel just downing on the surface or suffering a heart attack, or getting run over by careless boaters and jet skiers.

Nevertheless, shallow water blackout is a pretty serious danger for those who can stay down for any length of time. The casual ones like me are so quickly limited by the CO2 reflex, but those who can stay down for minutes can exhaust that O2 and black out as they ascend (which lowers the partial pressure of the oxygen due to the expanding gas)

kelpdiver said:

curious why not strap to wrist- is it to keep your hands free? I didn’t expect that. I may not use a weight belt, and only stay at the surface. Keep it simple and enjoy the scenery not get too distracted with photography.

Click to expand...

When diving, my camera is clipped to my BC d-ring so I can always drop it and get use of my right hand back. Same applies here.

And if you can, make your camera rig itself just barely floaty so that if it disconnects, it will surface. It's also better for avoiding crashing into the reef that way.

I don't try to hold my breath for as long as possible, I have low tolerance for lack of O2 I think. However, I didn't know shallow water blacking out was a thing! It makes sense though after speaking to a friend of mine. We were discussing SCUBA diving, he's an experienced diver, and as I knew there's far more to it than pretty fish.

That makes sense re strap, I thought so. Oh, I'd feel terrible if I damaged coral, or other animals for that matter. Life is precious.

PHXAZCRAIG · Nov 5, 2023

When I started diving, I had a point-n-shoot strapped to my right wrist. (You couldn't shoot it left-handed). Nice thing was that it was small enough to simply let go off when I needed to concentrate on diving.

That led to me inadvertently shooting a whole dive in video mode when I thought I was taking stills. A bit of steadiness followed by minutes of jerking around at the end of the strap.

Once I added strobes and handles to the camera, it changed the way I had to dive as well. One or both hands always occupied.

viper699 · Nov 6, 2023

PHXAZCRAIG said:
When I started diving, I had a point-n-shoot strapped to my right wrist. (You couldn't shoot it left-handed). Nice thing was that it was small enough to simply let go off when I needed to concentrate on diving.

That led to me inadvertently shooting a whole dive in video mode when I thought I was taking stills. A bit of steadiness followed by minutes of jerking around at the end of the strap.

Once I added strobes and handles to the camera, it changed the way I had to dive as well. One or both hands always occupied.

Yep that makes a lot of sense. I can rent both the point and shoot Oly, and a GoPro. Though they don’t have the flip up red filter for use if you want to shoot split level. I like split level shots quite a bit. I have 3 days of snorkeling so I’m debating on bringing both with me, have to pull the trigger soon hah.

PHXAZCRAIG · Nov 6, 2023

If you are in an experimental mode, I suggest you do bring both and see what the differences are. In my experience, GoPros are only for video.

Sticking a red filter onto a point-n-shoot sounds like a case where you are trying to shoot jpgs so have to get the white balance right in-camera. For stills, I've just shot in RAW mode - especially with ambient lighting - and fixed the WB in post. For videos, since (so far) I've not shot in RAW (Nikon N-log), I've had to get WB right in-camera, and that meant redoing white balance every 5-10 feet of depth change, plus other times if the lighting changed.

Using a red filter just knocks down the non-red colors to make it easier to get the white balance right. It doesn't restore red, but it does tone down green and blue. (So less light hitting the sensor). You may or may not benefit from that depending on depth. It would also make a difference in black and white photography, along with other filter colors.

viper699 · Nov 6, 2023

PHXAZCRAIG said:
If you are in an experimental mode, I suggest you do bring both and see what the differences are. In my experience, GoPros are only for video.

Sticking a red filter onto a point-n-shoot sounds like a case where you are trying to shoot jpgs so have to get the white balance right in-camera. For stills, I've just shot in RAW mode - especially with ambient lighting - and fixed the WB in post. For videos, since (so far) I've not shot in RAW (Nikon N-log), I've had to get WB right in-camera, and that meant redoing white balance every 5-10 feet of depth change, plus other times if the lighting changed.

Using a red filter just knocks down the non-red colors to make it easier to get the white balance right. It doesn't restore red, but it does tone down green and blue. (So less light hitting the sensor). You may or may not benefit from that depending on depth. It would also make a difference in black and white photography, along with other filter colors.

Dann-Oh · Nov 6, 2023

viper699 said:
Didn’t know that about stats! I’m risk adverse!

curious why not strap to wrist- is it to keep your hands free? I didn’t expect that. I may not use a weight belt, and only stay at the surface. Keep it simple and enjoy the scenery not get too distracted with photography.

Yes, to keep your hands free for assisting in an emergency. If your dive buddy has a blackout, or any emergency, how are you going to get them to the surface with a camera dangling from your wrist? Its just going to get in the way or smack them in the head. Are you going to be able to preform the rescue effectively with the camera strapped to your dominate hand? I don't think so.

kelpdiver said:
viper699 said:

Didn’t know that about stats! I’m risk adverse!

Click to expand...

those stats may be a bit distorted by the huge volume of untrained tourists with a snorkel just downing on the surface or suffering a heart attack, or getting run over by careless boaters and jet skiers.

The stats are not distorted but state the simple fact that you can go to walmart buy yourself a mask fins snorkel kit, go to the ocean and kill yourself. There are SO many people participating in the activity but don't know how to preform a rescue.

Almost all shallow water blackouts occur at depths less that 15ft deep, so the phrase "Ill just stay shallow to be safer" doesn't really mean anything. Most people that have had a SWB (including myself) didn't feel it was about to happen. I didn't even know I had one except for that it was on video, I didnt believe it happened until I was shown the video.

kelpdiver said:
I don't try to hold my breath for as long as possible, I have low tolerance for lack of O2 I think. However, I didn't know shallow water blacking out was a thing! It makes sense though after speaking to a friend of mine. We were discussing SCUBA diving, he's an experienced diver, and as I knew there's far more to it than pretty fish.

You wont realize that you are holding your breath for longer than you think. this is important to understand, you will see something and want to stay a few seconds longer. Its important to have a bottom timer and listen to it. if your watch beeps its time to head to the surface. You don't want to be at depth when you realize you are ready for a breath and then you have 20+ feet to swim to the surface. I did this with my freediving instructor on purpose to try to push ourselves to know our limits. We dove down to 55ft, hung on the line for 15sec, then slowly swam up to 40ft, hung on the line for 15sec, swam up to 25ft, hung for 15 sec, then to 10ft, hung for 15sec, then surfaced. it was a really tough dive but it taught us a lot about our bodies and how to push through diaphragm contractions and how much o2 we actually have in our bodies.

--
I take photos, not particularly good photos, mostly abstract photos. Yeah abstract is what I would call them, you might call them blurry.

[/QUOTE]

viper699 · Nov 7, 2023

Dann-Oh said:
viper699 said:

Didn’t know that about stats! I’m risk adverse!

curious why not strap to wrist- is it to keep your hands free? I didn’t expect that. I may not use a weight belt, and only stay at the surface. Keep it simple and enjoy the scenery not get too distracted with photography.

Click to expand...

Yes, to keep your hands free for assisting in an emergency. If your dive buddy has a blackout, or any emergency, how are you going to get them to the surface with a camera dangling from your wrist? Its just going to get in the way or smack them in the head. Are you going to be able to preform the rescue effectively with the camera strapped to your dominate hand? I don't think so.

kelpdiver said:

viper699 said:

Didn’t know that about stats! I’m risk adverse!

Click to expand...

those stats may be a bit distorted by the huge volume of untrained tourists with a snorkel just downing on the surface or suffering a heart attack, or getting run over by careless boaters and jet skiers.

Click to expand...

The stats are not distorted but state the simple fact that you can go to walmart buy yourself a mask fins snorkel kit, go to the ocean and kill yourself. There are SO many people participating in the activity but don't know how to preform a rescue.

Almost all shallow water blackouts occur at depths less that 15ft deep, so the phrase "Ill just stay shallow to be safer" doesn't really mean anything. Most people that have had a SWB (including myself) didn't feel it was about to happen. I didn't even know I had one except for that it was on video, I didnt believe it happened until I was shown the video.

Nevertheless said:

viper699, post: 67345937, member: 2011694"]
I don't try to hold my breath for as long as possible, I have low tolerance for lack of O2 I think. However, I didn't know shallow water blacking out was a thing! It makes sense though after speaking to a friend of mine. We were discussing SCUBA diving, he's an experienced diver, and as I knew there's far more to it than pretty fish.

Click to expand...

You wont realize that you are holding your breath for longer than you think. this is important to understand, you will see something and want to stay a few seconds longer. Its important to have a bottom timer and listen to it. if your watch beeps its time to head to the surface. You don't want to be at depth when you realize you are ready for a breath and then you have 20+ feet to swim to the surface. I did this with my freediving instructor on purpose to try to push ourselves to know our limits. We dove down to 55ft, hung on the line for 15sec, then slowly swam up to 40ft, hung on the line for 15sec, swam up to 25ft, hung for 15 sec, then to 10ft, hung for 15sec, then surfaced. it was a really tough dive but it taught us a lot about our bodies and how to push through diaphragm contractions and how much o2 we actually have in our bodies.

--
I take photos, not particularly good photos, mostly abstract photos. Yeah abstract is what I would call them, you might call them blurry.

Appreciate the input, I will not be freediving to 55ft, not even beyond 10 ft. However I will be careful with what you said. I do agree that most anyone can see something and get distracted or think they have more time-when they really don’t, or not realize it. There is so much to see, unexpected moments etc, I’d like to make it another time! Thanks!

kelpdiver · Nov 7, 2023

Dann-Oh said:
Almost all shallow water blackouts occur at depths less that 15ft deep, so the phrase "Ill just stay shallow to be safer" doesn't really mean anything. Most people that have had a SWB (including myself) didn't feel it was about to happen. I didn't even know I had one except for that it was on video, I didnt believe it happened until I was shown the video.

How deep did you go on that dive?

The SWB occurs at 15, but in response to the dropping partial pressure as the person ascends from deeper depth.

Dann-Oh · Nov 7, 2023

kelpdiver said:
Dann-Oh said:

Almost all shallow water blackouts occur at depths less that 15ft deep, so the phrase "Ill just stay shallow to be safer" doesn't really mean anything. Most people that have had a SWB (including myself) didn't feel it was about to happen. I didn't even know I had one except for that it was on video, I didnt believe it happened until I was shown the video.

Click to expand...

How deep did you go on that dive?

Maybe 25ft. The sand is at about 30-35ft depending on the tides, it can get to 40ft way way out. This was at Shaw's Cove, Laguna Beach, California, USA.

kelpdiver said:
The SWB occurs at 15, but in response to the dropping partial pressure as the person ascends from deeper depth.

Red filter vs Post etc

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